Ohio Delegate personal response...misses point!

As published earlier the OSTA delegate did not have answer my question about the repairs that were being made on the ATA dime. I posted earlier as a mod but will post this as FG as I have opinions to make. The questions were asked at the regularly scheduled OSTA meeting at the OSTA State Championship.

I was told by the OSTA President I should discuss such questions in private with the delegate. That won't happen. The questions were asked publicly. The answers will be discussed publicly. Our communication will be done publicly.

The response:



To my ATA delegate:

The specific question was whether the repairs and improvements being made to the WSRC property with ATA funds met the $$ threshold requiring involvement by the Real Property Committee? .

At the meeting, I did not make a specific note as to repairing the road. I merely noted it in the forum. Without a discussion no more questions could be asked.

As a delegate I think you should know how much money is being spent on those improvements. Your letter implies you did not know Gipson has been spending ATA money on other things at the WSRC other than the road. Or you are ignoring the question?

It is noted in the minutes that other things had to be repaired and improvements made.

Are you aware of improvements/repairs mentioned in the minutes? Not mentioned in your report? Gipson used ATA monies to make those repairs.....or not? The above letter does not address that.

Why?

Gipson did say he was going to make the repairs/improvements. Or am I wrong?

Your letter says you did not have the opportunity to respond. That sir is wrong. You gave your report. I asked a question. You could have answered.

Still waiting.........

 

The Delegates do not get the 2016 audited financial statement until the Annual Meeting at the Grand. There is no way he could know the cost of the things you cite, FG, that occurred in 2016 until two weeks from now, or expenses in 2017 until more than a year from now.

As you have read in my link in another thread, the interest of the Real Property Committee of any real property expenses do not kick in at expenditures less than $50,000. You also will have taken note of the lack of specificity of the target of the expenses.


N1H1

 

I knew long before your post what the limit is. I also know that Gipson intended to make the repairs and improvements. You didn't get the memo? Did my delegate get the memo? I attempted to communicate with him at the meeting.....not permitted. Not publicly.

He was asked if the threshold was met. He was asked if the Real Property Committee needed to be contacted.

The ATA made the announcement they would cover the expenses/improvements if the State could not do so with the new MOU agreement.

So what is the answer? Our delegates should know.

 

Just to clarify: there is no such thing as an "OSTA Delegate". The OSTA has 9 Directors. The ATA has 1 Ohio Delegate and 2 Ohio Alternate Delegates. I believe the OP is referring to the Ohio ATA Delegate when he used the term "OSTA Delegate" but that is just a guess on my part.

The photo above appears to be of a letter from the Ohio ATA Delegate to Family Guy, but again that is only a guess on my part as no names are shown in the photo. If I am interpreting the letter correctly, the author appears to be stating that ATA monies were NOT used to repair the road at the WSRC.

 

Thanks Mr. Cogan......yes the letter is to me. And I should have said posted Ohio ATA delegate. The letter does say ATA monies were not used for the road. The question tho was not about monies used for the road. The question was about monies used to make other repairs and improvements.

Title changed to "Ohio Delegate.

 

When the ATA told the IDNR we would do whatever it takes in case the State failed again to meet its obligations the Real Property Committee should have been contacted if the costs were expected to be over $50,000.

N1H1 you can pretend ignorance but the rest of us know that past expenses of a business are usually somewhat close to future expenses. The ATA's message with the new agreement/lease that we will spare no expense should have been a trigger for the Real Property Committee to get to work.

Now we have had Gipson spending ATA monies. How much? The delegates should care? Are the by-laws important? Were they contacted?

Telling us about a project that the ATA did not spend monies on is BS.

 

Reading the actual verbiage of the by laws, it appears to me that the Real Property Advisory Committee does not need to be consulted regarding ATA expenditures on the WSRC because the property is not owned by the ATA. While I can't say that I agree with this policy or that it serves the actual intent of the Real Property Advisory Committee, the fact remains that the wording in the by laws refers only to property owned by the ATA.

 

Real Property also includes leased land for any money or no money. It can include borrowed land. It can include temporary property rights.

real property
n. 1) all land, structures, firmly attached and integrated equipment (such as light fixtures or a well pump), anything growing on the land, and all "interests" in the property which may be the right to future ownership (remainder), right to occupy for a period of time (tenancy or life estate) the right to drill for oil, the right to get the property back (a reversion) if it is no longer used for its current purpose (such as use for a hospital, school or city hall), use of airspace (condominium) or an easement across another's property. Real property should be thought of as a group of rights like a bundle of sticks which can be divided.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Section 3: Duties: The Real Property Advisory Committee shall have the following duties: (a) To investigate all proposals by the Executive Committee relative to the acquisition of any real property or the permanent improvement of any real property now owned by this Corporation, where such improvement would cost in excess of $50,000.00. (b) At all times to advise the Executive Committee relative to proposed acquisition or improvement of real property; (c) To advise, in writing, the Board of Directors prior to the annual meeting thereof, of the recommendation of said Committee relative to any proposal for the acquisition or improvement of real property as submitted to it by the Executive Committee. Section 4: Limitation of Authority of Executive Committee. The Executive Committee shall at no time acquire in any manner any real property, or commit this Corporation to so acquire any real property, or cause this Corporation, where such acquisition of real property of improvement to real property would cost in excess of $50,000.00, until a recommendation by the Real Property Advisory Committee has been first rendered and a majority of the Board of Directors has approved the proposed acquisition or improvement.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Where are the delegates to tell us how much money has been spent on the WSRC following the latest agreement/MOU etc.?

Did the Real Property Committee need to be consulted before Gipson started making improvements? What will the total cost be during the length of the usage? Is it over the threshold?

 

(b) At all times to advise the Executive Committee relative to proposed acquisition or improvement of real property;

 

Just to be clear, the reference you quoted from (b) would be referring only to items in the proposal defined in (a), which shows us the improvements are referring to "... or the permanent improvement of any real property now owned by this Corporation." Permanent Improvements to real property would not include repairs, maintenance etc.

So it is unlikely the $50,000 threshold for the Real Property Advisory Committee has been reached.

 

Not necessarily. Where did you get that?

Why----based on what? Unlikely---but not for sure? Who are you covering for?

 

Well, by definition. The term "permanent improvements" to real property would not include items such as repairs or maintenance, which are generally current expenses in the year incurred. A permanent improvement is something that is generally not considered an expense of the period incurred, but instead allocable over the remaining life of said property. It would include building a building on land, significant improvements to a building etc. that should be capitalized instead of deducted etc.

Based on what? Well, I haven't seen any mention of any permanent improvements made to any real property by the ATA, so I can't say it is likely the policy has been violated. What costs did ATA cover that make you think otherwise?

 

In one clause it mentions specifically permanent improvements. In one clause as above it says just "improvement". So tell us Bat what improvements were made.

Legal definition:

http://legaldictionary.lawin.org/permanent-improvement/

Permanent improvements are not necessarily everlasting in character, but are such as rest upon, or are attached to, the soil, are reasonably enduring and not intended for removal at the end of a limited term.

Tell us Bat what improvements or repairs were made that were not reasonably enduring. Did the ATA give the OK for your above post?

Did Gipson make the improvements that were mentioned in the minutes? Why do you protests too much? hmmmm

 

FYI Bat..........repairs can be permanent improvements and often are.

 

In your first post that is my point, permanent improvements are item that are significant enough, and have an expected life long enough, to be considered a part of whatever they are attached to. Therefore they are depreciated over the life of whatever that asset is, or if stand alone, such as land improvement - are deducted over 15 years , or longer, even not depreciated at all but left on the books as land, sitting there seemingly forever until the land is disposed of. On the other hand, repairs and maintenance costs are deducted as incurred.

If what you might call a "repair" is significant enough to be consider a "permanent improvement," it is by definition not a repair anymore. Good example would be roof work. If it is a repair, it is deducted as incurred. If the "repair" is so significant that it is deemed an improvement to the building, it is no longer consider a repair, but is capitalized as a building improvement.

Also, read over those "clauses" you are referring to. The first defines to proposals by the EC that the Committee must review. (b), the second "clause" is still referring specifically to the proposals made by the EC. The only proposals that would have to be brought before the committee are those described in (a), (b) is not defining a new set of rules, it is just saying the committee is to advise the EC on the items in a proposal that is required to be brought to its attention.

Cut to the chase here, I haven't seen any mention of what the EC supposedly spent money on to start this entire thread? It seems it wasn't the temporary road repairs, so that's out. Without some info, I can't jump to the conclusion that the $50,000 clause should have been triggered. Nobody can without some more info.

 

I did not say "EC". The question was posed to my delegate about Gipson's improvement/repairs to WSRC property. My delegate should know or want to know. (jmho) I told the delegate Gipson was using ATA funds. The first point of the post is that the outgoing OSTA President implied the delegate did not have to answer such questions in public.

The other point is the untimely response from the delegate. It does not cover the work Gipson is having done. Telling us what Gipson is not doing does not answer anything about the repairs and improvements they are doing. No answer as to the amount either.

The delegate's answer is as worthless as the OSTA President's statement that the delegate and I should get together privately. It is none of the OSTA President's business to interfere. jmho

Isn't that the job of the delegates?

 

FG,

I agree it would have been a good idea for the Delegate to simply ask about the nature of the expenses the ED was referring to (I haven't seen those so don't know exactly what you were referring to) incurred at WSRC and to answer your question yes or no as to the committee involvement. He may very well feel he has done that, and maybe he has done that as it is possible they haven't spent any additional funds. To put it to rest, I wish they would simply answer your question directly whether the committee is required to be involved. It could be a simple answer of "No expenses were incurred at WSRC that would trigger referral to the Real Property Committee."

The OSTA does not have to take time in a state meeting to have a question and answer session with the ATA Delegate. They certainly may, it's their meeting. If they feel it is something that would take up time better spent on state issues, I have no problem with them asking that the non-state issues be taken up with the Delegate outside the state meeting.

I don't think it is anyone's job to jump to conclusions, especially a delegate. This is all based on what statements made by the ED in regard to the costs?

 

It is in the by-laws that the delegate give a report at the meeting. It is the eve of the delegate election. Nominations were taken at the meeting. They asked if there were questions following the delegate's incomplete report.

What statement is that? He only said we did not fix the road. He did not mention the projects he planned since the IDNR is out of money.

The delegates should care enough to find out. Red flags should have been raised when the ATA said they would operate the WSRC without the IDNR monies following the new agreement. The repairs and improvements needed were mentioned in the minutes. Gipson told the IDNR the ATA was going forward with the repairs/improvements.

Was the Real Property Committee contacted? How much has been spent so far? The ATA knew about the needed work before the last agreement. No surprises.

 

Just interested in reading what the ED said that this whole issue is based upon. Which minutes or other documents might I find Gipson's statement you are talking about?

 

Bat.......the minutes are easy. Do some leg work. The issues have even been printed in the forum. The other stuff.....keeping under wraps.

 

Looked at I believe the most recent 3 sets of minutes and didn't see it, that's why I asked. I only saw a summary of the meeting with IDNR, but missed any such statements from Gipson if they were in those minutes. I'm not doubting you, I just want to see what he said.

 

Cheese whiz, Family Guy! You are telling us that The ED is spending our ATA funds on WSRC projects but you refuse to tell us what projects and how much he is spending. Please cut to the chase and give us some info. I have no idea what the ED is doing but if he is doing something inappropriate with our funds please just tell us. You have your undies in a bunch but the rest of us can't figure out what you are pissed about. If you let us in on what you know we might just be as upset as you are.

 

Been reading this. Timing is most interesting. Will a delegate ask the question? How much did we spend on the WSRC this year? Meeting is soon right?

 

Oh well, would have appreciated a little more help in understanding your issue and narrowing down the search a bit. I find the listing of WSRC improvements needed described in the minutes as you pointed out, but I also see a later statement from Gipson that "...the roads will be repaired in the spring, and all other issues and problems discussed at that meeting are being addressed by the IDNR."

That's why I was asking for a reference to the statement you saw.

 

If anyone is interested, last year according to the State of Illinois web site the State Parks (recreational areas) were in need of 9 million dollars in repairs (some stated as safety issues) that were separate from general maintenance ... The amount of money allotted for those repairs were ZERO dollars due to the State of Illinois being in the hole over 23 billions dollars and a credit rating lower than whales shit ... The web site is open to the public so feel free to search and seek any and all information your little heart desires ... There are many things people can find out by putting forth a little effort rather than rely on others to search and seek the answers they would like to have ... I have taken the time to copy, paste, and post many of the articles off of the States web site for people's reading enjoyment and on a few occasions get bashed for being Anti Sparta, and State of Illinois ... I quit caring about the State of Illinois when I saw it in my rear view mirror for the last time, not happy with the ATA and the way they are doing things and have lost all respect for those milking the cash cow while there still is one ... If anyone thinks the ATA is transparent and up front with the members you are part of the problem ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

I am also one of the Deplorable people who voted for Trump, don't like it "Tough ---- " (fill in the blank )

 

WPT,
My little heart doesn't desire any information about the State of Illinois. I really couldn't care less about most of what you copy and paste and therefore I normally don't read it. This thread was started by a guy claiming our ATA funds are being misappropriated. One of the big ticket items to be repaired was the road at the WSRC but we are told that it was repaired without ATA monies. I'm not the one making the claims that our money is being used incorrectly or at least without the appropriate approvals. I don't think its too much to ask of the original poster that he at least give us a hint of what the hell he is referring to. Right now he just looks like a blithering idiot hammering away on a keyboard hoping that something will stick.

And I have absolutely no idea why you felt the need to tell us that you voted for President Trump, but so did I and most rational thinking people that I know.

 

What Spending? I've been asking but still not sure where the issue of ATA paying any expenses of the IDNR came from. Sounds like FG has something but I have not seen it yet, all I know is it is not in the ATA minutes.

 

I assume my delegate is quite capable of finding out how much money the ATA spent or was committed to spending on the WSRC property before the OSTA meeting. Illinois did not have the funds to do their repairs / improvement duties. I know things got done and I know Gipson made a statement that they were going to do repairs. My question to the delegate was how much did the repairs cost? Was the RPC contacted?

I am not asking anyone in the forum to give that answer. I am asking all in the forum to understand that I used my chain of command, got involved, went to a meeting and asked questions. I was told the delegate did not have to answer publicly despite the bylaws saying he was to do a report. And following that we were asked if we had questions. Then a nomination for a delegate....go figure.

We constantly hear some kool aid servers on the site say you need to go to the meetings. Ask questions. Investigate. Get answers. Talk to your delegate. Blah, blah, blah.....

Okay.....did that. No answers.

But...I have a clue. .

 

Again, you say you know Gipson made a statement that ATA was going to make repairs , but it seems many if not most here have not seen where that statement was made. It must have been something outside the ATA minutes?

 

Don Cogan.
The nice thing about this forum is you " DO NOT HAVE to READ" anything I or anyone else posts about anything I or they choose to post about ... The State of Illinois is corrupt and there are many that firmly believe ( I happen to be one of them based on actual experience ) so are many involved with the ATA, you say things that have never been said which is one reason I seldom read anything you post (make a note : Integrity) ... I personally could care less about your heart big or small, much less anything you have to say because you cannot obviously see the forest through the trees or you are blinded by the lights like many others who suck up to the ED, EC, and many of the BOD ... I and or any person who asks a logical and reasonable question, deserves an honest and reasonable answer unless there is something to hide (wink, wink) ... I did not call any one any names like you did ("blithering Idiot") , but I was always taught that it takes one to know one (hint, Hint) and if I call anyone a name it will to their face ... Do not bite the hand that's feeds you, you were a delegate were you not ..? I rest my case ... WPT ... (YAC) ...


" We can only wonder what gets said outside of the ATA minutes, not saying anything is, but not saying it don't happen either" ...

 

Don and I are close enough that he can say stuff like that to me. Mostly fun.

 

Don Cogan,
FYI : all the news , all the time ... The State of Illinois has none as in NO money, somebody is paying for something ... Don't like it PLEASE do not read it ... Thank you in advance ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The ATA spent slightly less than $5k on the grounds - it went to repaint the Bank Number signs (so they could be read from the road) and to repaint the trap-houses.

 

Phil Kiner

Strange seeing you here.

Your last post was this:

"He said come back and we will Butt Fu@$ everyone of you -- all he did was wake up the Giant-and he got bent over and over and over again" .....Phil Kiner

Do you have a job with the ATA now? You were a part of that one time 2 yard reduction that happened without a vote..and again?

Great to have you back.

You are a class act. / not.

 

Thank you Phil, good to get the OP's question answered. I still haven't seen where Gipson made those remarks that started this whole thing though.

 

Kiner also posted:

WPT I am sick and tired of you bashing the BOD on a continual basis. Your arrogance and broad brush approach to solutions for issues is overwhelming and under thought.

I am on the BOD as the Wyoming Delegate (5 years now I think) and have ALWAYS tried to do what my constituents told me to do or what I thought was right when I had no direction from them when voting at the meetings.

If you guys want your delegate to vote one way or the other at the Grand then you need to let him/her know at the State Meeting or heaven forbid actually go talk to him/her. Bitching on a forum is like pi$$ing into the wind - it may feel warm for a couple of seconds then all that is left is the stink.

If your delegate is not doing what you want then go to the State meeting and call him on it or better yet get someone else to run, IF YOU CAN. The problem with the delegate is that it is a volunteer position and most shooters are so worried about their personal situation that they would never consider becoming one. The perks for delegates are a new cap and shirt every year at the Grand. Wyoming does pay $500 for their delegate to go to the Grand and attend any meetings that occur.

It is way more satisfying to bitch and moan than it is to take some positive action and do something about it.
Do I agree with everything the EC does HELL NO. But I let them know what I think in our meetings and we have made some positive changes.

We just elected Jim Jones from Montana to represent the Western Zone on the EC.
At the Western Grand Jim was on the computer every morning at 6am till he left for the club answering emails and lining out what needed to be done to keep HIS BUSINESS going in his absence. So I assume he would meet the businessman criteria.

John Burke Central Zone VP is a successful farmer/rancher from western Nebraska, I would assume that this would qualify as a businessman.

Jim was on the accountability committee (how many of you knew there is a accountability committee) but had to leave since he is now on the EC.
The accountability committee reviews the EC's expenditures and makes sure they are in line, which they are and have been for the last 5 years that I am familiar with.

They (EC) are reimbursed for expenses in the same way most of you that work and have to travel are.
I was asked to run for the EC last time the WZ elected Jim (by Jim) and declined because I don't have the time or money.
Look at MY history on various subjects and call me personally on my actions but don't ever broad brush anyone.

phil kiner, Jul 8, 2015Report
#16Unlike+ QuoteReply


Re called this from some time ago, unfounded accusations from Mr Phil Kiner ... (07-08-2105) Updated (08-03-2017) My response to Mr Kiner to follow ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

From Kiner

"I am on the BOD as the Wyoming Delegate (5 years now I think) and have "ALWAYS tried to do what my constituents told me to do" or what I thought was right when I had no direction from them when voting at the meetings." (Quote from Phil Kiner )

Read it slowly until you understand it ...

So, if they tell you what to do and they are wrong ..? Thats exactly the point that people are trying to make ... I respect you and much of what you have to say but never would of figured you for the type of person who would be told what to do by others who have little respect for the membership and are for the most part are self serving ...

There is the problem and most of the membership feels that way ... Why should a club have to pay for the ATA Clowns to attend a shoot on behalf of the membership and then they (ATA Clowns) avoid the people they are elected to represent ..? Why does the EC and or BOD who attend certain shoots expect to have a separate place to gather and expect it to be fully stocked with Adult beverages, sandwiches, finger food, and munchies so they can get away from the very people they are elected to represent ... Back at the Spring Grand John Norris approached (when I was President) me and asked me whats going on and then told me what they expect ... I told him to shove it where the sun don't shine (actually I said it but not in a nice way, can't put down what I said or it will be rightfully deleted .) and told him if they want anything to go sit at the bar and put their own money up ... If looks could of killed I would not be here, but only Norris had the balls to say anything ...

Then they take the bottles with them like they are entitled when they leave ... I still say if the shoe fits wear it, the EC and most of the BOD are self serving,(if you are one of them) then you are no better than they are ... I paint no one with a broad brush and treat everyone with all due respect until given a reason to do otherwise ... I really can care less what you like or do not like that's up to you, and the birds of a feather ...

The members quit faster than they can be replaced because they are sick and tired of the EC and BOD (for the most part) also, if you don't believe me talk to them, like I do ... You are one of the few who are respected, don't let them drag you down to their level or you won't be any longer ... The days of wine and roses are gone, let them put their big boy pants on or get the Hell out of there so people who care can get in and change whats needed to preserve the future of the ATA ... You can call me anytime, you have my number ... Respectfully, WPT ... (YAC) ...

(Up date from 07-08-15 ) Refresher course ...

 

Tell me how that answered my question.

The previously misleading statement was we did not have to fix the road.

How much did we spend on improvements to the WSRC this year? Were there any other improvements? Will there be more? At what point (time) do we expect to hit the $50k mark? Or will we have ever spent $50K on the WSRC? That is the question. Tell me Bat how that was answered.

The big point was that I was told by the outgoing OSTA President that the delegate did not have to answer publicly.

Now we have potty mouth Kiner, whom seems to be in the know, or part of the good 'ole boys club, is trying to answer for Gipson and the delegates. Why cant a delegate get the answer?

 

Well, for some reason you refuse to let us know where Gipson made the statement you attribute to him that seems to have started your whole line of questioning here. Then, an ATA delegate posts that total costs were less than $5,000 for painting. That's the best info I have seen on the topic, aside from your Ohio Delegate pointing out that IDNR repaired the road. So, from what's before us no permanent improvements have been made by the ATA, and less than $5,000 in maintenance has been incurred. Those directly answer your question as to how much has been spent, and whether the real propertyy committee needed to be consulted.

Until some better info is posted, those are the answers to your questions.

What do you mean by the "previously misleading statement" that ATA did not have to fix the road? I don't follow that?

 

Weeeeee, now we are having some fun!

Talk about being painted with a broad brush! Hey Sherlock, I am not now nor have I ever been an ATA Delegate. I have never even been nominated to run for ATA Delegate, 1st or 2nd alternate Delegate. Still want to "rest your case". And you claim I have no integrity? You think I'm sucking up to the ATA big wigs? I can only hope Dysinger isn't drinking his morning coffee when he reads that little jewel. I bet he would have coffee running out of his nostrils he'd be laughing so hard.

I think Phil Kiner is still a Delegate. I thank him for taking the time to ask the questions and post an answer to at least part of Family Guy's question.

 

You have my sincere apologies, thought someone said you were a Delegate at one time ... My mistake, no harm done ... Based on a few of your postings I question which side you are on, from then on I quit reading them ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Changing the trap house signs and painting the traphouses would be an improvement.

Also, it could be the Ohio delegate is not well known enough to get the info Kiner is allowed to have. Just wondering.

 

I will try to make that more clear.

When we/I asked if the ATA was making repairs and did the RPC have to be notified we got the response, "We did not have to fix the road."

So then we were to assume the ATA was not absorbing any of the IDNR costs. Now new information is starting to trickle in. Strange how that happens.

Some folks hate being watched!

 

Kiner did not deny they did other repairs that IL was supposed to do.

 

I was always taught that deception is a form of lying, I would therefore have to assume just because it (something/ anything) was not mentioned or asked about specifically if would be in that column with other things that do not get talked about ... The State of Illinois web site states (back to last year) they have NO money for any repairs to any of the States Recreational Parks ... The WSRC is listed as a State Park governed by the IDNR just as the others are, critical repairs that were needed last year never got attended to by the State of Illinois (IDNR) by their own admission due to lack of funding ... If and or what ever got done was not done by the State so the obvious would be who ever would have an interest in a facility to do so to make it usable ... What is wrong with this picture ..? Nobody did anything yet certain things got repaired or made usable by Nobody ..? Ahhh, now I get it ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT, I think it is safe to assume your statements making it sound like IL has not spent ANY money on state parks are likely a bit too literal. The best information in this thread is that provided by the OH delegate, in writing, stating that IDNR paid for road repairs; and the post by another delegate stating ATA expenditures for repairs at the grounds totaled less than $5,000. The state is still spending money at the WSRC.

I get a kick out of all the posting of WSRC electric bills. What does that have to do with the ATA? IL isn't a good customer that's for sure, but I don't think you will find ATA paying those bills for them. Yes, IL could just fold the whole thing up, but that is not case at this time, and FWIW they indicate they plan on keeping the site operating.

 

Bat,
The information I posted is from the States own web site, (they say NO MONEY , as in NONE) when you assume any thing (ass u me ) you look like you are defending something there is no defense to or that needs defending ..? Not sure where you get your information but I get mine from the source (so to speak) if you can believe anything Politico's say (bring fine tooth comb) ... Me thinks you been hanging around the Bat cave to long ... The electric bills have been posted and verified as legit (FOIA), if you have sources name them ... Check out the crowds at the WSRC on the streaming live videos if you want to see something that is nothing short of PATHETIC , looks like a BOMB went off ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT, no question the electric bills are legit, just don't follow why you think ATA is responsible for them?

So, based on your reading of a website you believe every state park in IL is shuttered and the state is spending zilch on them??? I think that is kind of ridicules. I don't have to be there to realize they continue to operate many facilities still. They are in a fiscal disaster, but they haven't stopped spending all the money. They are cutting many things, but not shuttering every state park in the state.

Everything I have seen indicates they are still funding the WSRC, maybe not at the level it should be, but they are spending money on it and keeping it available for ATA's purposes.

 

Bat with all due respect :
Please show me where I said, stated, or even implied the State of Illinois is or has shuttered any, let alone any one of the States Recreational areas other than when they closed (Shuttered) the WSRC that one year without consideration of the events on schedule with no notice by the way .. ? There was nothing spent last year, none verified by the minutes of one of the States meetings and posted on their site other than general up keep they were forced to do by the Unions ... What have you seen that says they are still funding the WSRC (give me a hint) , I'll look it up myself ... The one electric bill that was posted was for a light at the entrance, none of the big services ... I would love to see the residents of the State of Illinois just stand by and watch after they just got a 5 billion dollar increase in taxes to cover excessive spending by the State Politicians say nothing so the State could fund a play ground for trap shooters ... The facility is used less than 30% of the time according to the INRS scheduled events on their web site (what do they know ..? ) , but admittedly the IDNR's site seems to be incomplete at best ...
Have you ever heard of Meigs Field, was on the Lake front to service the Down town area (The Loop) ..? It was closed and bull dozed in a matter of days by the Mayor at the time (Richard J. Daley ), no notice, no nothing, that's the way the State of Disaster (Illinois) does things (there are pictures of it ) ... Google it and be surprised, gives the whole story ... I lived and worked in Illinois for 47 years of my much to long life,(according to some people) could tell you story's I saw with my own eyes and still don't believe some of what happened ... If Madigan dies tomorrow you will see some changes like you won't believe across the entire state ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

. At least you admit the state is spending money on general upkeep. My understanding is it been open for shooting, so they are paying some money to keep it open. Appears they have done repairs on the road, I'm sure they are doing the minimum necessary to keep it operating, but that is a lot more than the absolute zero you were posting earlier

And most noteworthy, they have it open for the grand again. Yep, it could all fall apart in the future, anything can happen, but it sure seems that they intend to meet their obligations under the lease. The governor stated he intends to keep it funded. Yep, politics can change everything, everyone knows that

 

Some money? How much is that?

Hmmmmm....what is the minimum? Did they do the repairs they said they would at the exit meeting? NO

How many times have they failed to meet their obligation on the lease(s)? Really Bat? Do you keep up?

 

Gov Rauner vetoed funds to fix the road.

Hey Bat did you forget Rauner shuttered the place kicking out the SCTP Collegiate Nationals. Those guys have a good home in Ohio now.

Come on Bat. You can do better. Study a bit.

Yep...Blajojevich is the Ex-Governor that used the WSRC to buy votes from the Repubs in Southern Illinois. He is in jail. Gave a speech at the opening ceremony then went to Chicago and gave a gun hate speech the next weekend.

 

Bat,
If the State would not abide by the contract with the Union, the Union would of shut the place down ... I would not call that the State willingly keeping it operational, they might as well get something for the money so minimum standards are to be followed , no more, no less ... Governor Rauner would pull the plug in a New York minute if not for issues with the Union ... Madigan don't even know it exists and don't want to know ... The Union modified their contract by the way to a lesser degree , have to see what happens in the future ... Hope they make the best of it while they can, that's yet to be determined ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

FamilyGuy:

I found this on the OSTA website, posted July 10. It may answer your question.

"7/10/2017

I was in contact with Mr. Lynn Gipson today because I heard that the main road to the CEB building at the World Shooting Complex had been repaired. Mr. Gipson said the IDNR did a temporary repair on the road at their expense. The total project was paid for by the IDNR. Mr. Gipson said the repair only took one day because it is a temporary repair. The IDNR said they are hoping for a permanent repair in the not so distance future. The ATA has paid for two things at the World Shooting Complex this year. First, they had the bank signs repainted so you can read them from the road again at a cost of less than $1,000, and they paid to have the trap houses repainted. According to Mr. Gipson, these are the only repairs the ATA has paid for at the World Shooting Complex as of today.

Respectfully,
Roger McNamer"

 

Cichlidiot.....

Thanks for the update. If you missed the first thread the point of the matter was not as much as the ATA making repairs to Illinois property as much as the outgoing OSTA President implying any questions about the ATA should be asked in private, not at a regular OSTA meeting. That being said despite the fact that the ATA by laws require the delegate to make a public report. And following was a delegate nomination process.

The delegate obviously has made the response public. Kudos for that. A response at the meeting would have been more appropriate but this is progress.

I never asked about the road. I would like to know how many more improvements to Illinois property are scheduled and how much was made following the MOU. I would guess a delegate would want the same information.

The number given by Kiner was $5,000. Have there been more improvements?

 

I read that as meaning the news signs cost $1,000. Also the traphouses were painted. No number given for that.

Did the IDNR fix the other issues such as sinking traphouses? Or ATA? People asking questions? Good?

 

The way I read it, with a little guesswork, is that they paid for only two items, painting of the signs and painting of the traphouses. Painting the signs cost $1,000, and the total for both jobs was around $5,000.

 

Bat

That was as of when. I hear there have been other crews out there. Are those on the ATA dime? Why isnt the IDNR doing it?