ATA Members--Do You Have Confidence in Your Leaders? Vote Here!

ATA members--Do you have confidence in your leaders?

 

Looks like a some of our leaders voted.

 

IT'S LIKE ASKING IF YOU HAVE CONFIDENCE IN OUR "GOVERNMENT" !!!!

 

How did we get in the mess at Sparta, we may be put out. We should have worked out a deal with the airport and stayed in Vandalia.

 

The Question as asked cannot be answered accurately without being completed except in General ...
Do You Have Confidence in Your Leaders? to : (Fill in the blanks)
A. _______________________

B. _______________________

C.________________________ Etc ... WPT ... (YAC) ..

 

Funny

At least 9 so far!

 

We were booted out of Vandalia. Nashville Gun Club had a 99 year lease with the Nashville Airport. At last, a secure lease.

We were unceremoniously booted out for a runway. We scuffled around for several years, having our shoots at other clubs. After a time, the good Lord opened a door, and we found a much better place to have our club. Now, we have a facility we could not have dreamed of, let alone had, at our old location.

The worst case scenario may evolve into a better arrangement IF we don't give up.

 

I would say the Devil Made Them Build it.

The LORD Gave them other Locations.

But Were Led By The Devil Worshippers

GB DLS

 

We call them leaders? These guys are an embarrassment.

 

The EC and BOD for the most part are not business men, that is the problem ... The ATA has to be run and operated as a business, promoted as, and maintained as a business or the things that are happening, happen ... It cannot be a cash cow for some and pay for people to attend shoots just so they can say they are there to represent the shooters on behalf of the ATA ... Clubs are expected to foot the bill for those who attend and provide them with food, lodging, transportation, and adult beverages besides pay for the trophys ... The days of wine and roses are long gone and the sooner they realize that the better ... Time to get real people, cut the spending and all of the freebies ... You play, you pay is what I was always told ... Sounds reasonable and logical to me ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

10 leaders voted. lol

 

Trump may be lookin now that he got fired

 

Could we get Trump? Haven't seen any ATA's resign.

 

10 leaders have voted so far ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The EC and BOD (for the most part) are thicker than thieves (bad word to use, maybe not) and most leave their Moral substance at the door when they gather ... They are not subject to making mistakes like mortal humans do on occasion or at least admitting to it ever ... They can and will defend every mistake they have ever made and blame it on the By-Laws, much like Obama blames Bush ... We the members are in trouble, the EC gets to milk the cash cow and attend shoots so they can represent the membership, yet they get (request, demand) a separate place to hang out so they do not have to associate with them ... Free guns line on the right ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT I am sick and tired of you bashing the BOD on a continual basis. Your arrogance and broad brush approach to solutions for issues is overwhelming and under thought.

I am on the BOD as the Wyoming Delegate (5 years now I think) and have ALWAYS tried to do what my constituents told me to do or what I thought was right when I had no direction from them when voting at the meetings.
If you guys want your delegate to vote one way or the other at the Grand then you need to let him/her know at the State Meeting or heaven forbid actually go talk to him/her. Bitching on a forum is like pi$$ing into the wind - it may feel warm for a couple of seconds then all that is left is the stink.
If your delegate is not doing what you want then go to the State meeting and call him on it or better yet get someone else to run, IF YOU CAN. The problem with the delegate is that it is a volunteer position and most shooters are so worried about their personal situation that they would never consider becoming one. The perks for delegates are a new cap and shirt every year at the Grand. Wyoming does pay $500 for their delegate to go to the Grand and attend any meetings that occur.
It is way more satisfying to bitch and moan than it is to take some positive action and do something about it.
Do I agree with everything the EC does HELL NO. But I let them know what I think in our meetings and we have made some positive changes.
We just elected Jim Jones from Montana to represent the Western Zone on the EC.
At the Western Grand Jim was on the computer every morning at 6am till he left for the club answering emails and lining out what needed to be done to keep HIS BUSINESS going in his absence. So I assume he would meet the businessman criteria.
John Burke Central Zone VP is a successful farmer/rancher from western Nebraska, I would assume that this would qualify as a businessman.
Jim was on the accountability committee (how many of you knew there is a accountability committee) but had to leave since he is now on the EC.
The accountability committee reviews the EC's expenditures and makes sure they are in line, which they are and have been for the last 5 years that I am familiar with.
They (EC) are reimbursed for expenses in the same way most of you that work and have to travel are.
I was asked to run for the EC last time the WZ elected Jim (by Jim) and declined because I don't have the time or money.
Look at MY history on various subjects and call me personally on my actions but don't ever broad brush anyone.

 

It is great 'someone from the inside' decided to jump into the fray ....

But ... I find it interesting to be part of a group, and want to 'judged' as an individual ....

Use SCOTUS for an example .... the vote is 'split' most of the time, but the result is credited to the group. And if people are unhappy with the 'result' they 'blame' the whole, not each person for their vote .... just 'food for thought' ....

 

And that's a big problem. Wyoming may only be entitled to one delegate. Pennsylvania should get a bunch. having PA and WY be equal in representation is ridiculous.

 

Phil\
Read for the most part, if the shoe fits wear it ... I'm sick and tired of the EC and BOD (for the most part) ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

"I am on the BOD as the Wyoming Delegate (5 years now I think) and have "ALWAYS tried to do what my constituents told me to do" or what I thought was right when I had no direction from them when voting at the meetings." (Quote from Phil Kiner ) Read it slowly until you understand it ...

So, if they tell you what to do and they are wrong ..? Thats exactly the point that people are trying to make ... I respect you and much of what you have to say but never would of figured you for the type of person who would be told what to do by others who have little respect for the membership and are for the most part are self serving ... There is the problem and most of the membership feels that way ... Why should a club have to pay for the ATA Clowns to attend a shoot on behalf of the membership and then they (ATA Clowns) avoid the people they are elected to represent ..? Why does the EC and or BOD who attend certain shoots expect to have a separate place to gather and expect it to be fully stocked with Adult beverages, sandwiches, finger food, and munchies so they can get away from the very people they are elected to represent ... Back at the Spring Grand John Norris approached (when I was President) me and asked me whats going on and then told me what they expect ... I told him to shove it where the sun don't shine (actually I said it but not in a nice way, can't put down what I said or it will be rightfully deleted .) and told him if they want anything to go sit at the bar and put their own money up ... If looks could of killed I would not be here, but only Norris had the balls to say anything ... Then they take the bottles with them like they are entitled when they leave ... I still say if the shoe fits wear it, the EC and most of the BOD are self serving,(if you are one of them) then you are no better than they are ... I paint no one with a broad brush and treat everyone with all due respect until given a reason to do otherwise ... I really can care less what you like or do not like that's up to you, and the birds of a feather ... The members quit faster than they can be replaced because they are sick and tired of the EC and BOD (for the most part) also, if you don't believe me talk to them, like I do ... You are one of the few who are respected, don't let them drag you down to their level or you won't be any longer ... The days of wine and roses are gone, let them put their big boy pants on or get the Hell out of there so people who care can get in and change whats needed to preserve the future of the ATA ... You can call me anytime, you have my number ... Respectfully, WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I like a lot of people respect Phil as a shooter and gentleman he has in the past voiced his displeasure with the ATA and recommended some changes, most were not accepted. One question I have for Phil is where do you stand on the current target presentation. ( angles and distance settings).

 

My Respect for Phil Kiner is not and has never been in question, he did not single handedly get the ATA in the position they are in 15 years ago and since ... The actions of the BOD (for the most part) pretty much tells what they are made of by rubber stamping anything the EC wants or by doing what they are told to do ... Moral's be damned throw out all thought, common sense, logic and reasoning and just vote ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Phil Kiner: I have talked to you in the past on target presentations, and angles, you were in agreement if memory serves me right. You stood up against Neil Winston, I respected you for that, what puzzles me is your wording on this site, This site supports the changes that needs to be made to bring back the ATA as it should be. What we are mtrying to find answers to, is why was the TRAP BIDDING STOPPED, and the Pat Traps Selected w/o testing them, and having comparasion bids for the best Trap Deals on the open market, and why did Pat Traps give the GMV Superstar
problems with selling them in the United States? You were a delegate and should be in the KNOW? What exactly happened here? Did you read my testing of the 27 yard line on 4,traps in front of the Grandstands using 2 Pat Traps and 2 Pro-matic traps set at 44 degree angles, 50-52 yard targets set at the same height, and a sign posting which traps are in the respective traphouse, so all observers can see what is happening by the top shooters, to determine if 30 yard walks are needed.

This is the only TRUE TEST of whether 30 yard walk-ways are mneeded.

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

 

Pardon us if we don't hand out special category trophies for the clowns that made the ATA what it is. What trophy would you like for your group's self perceived exceptionalism?

Translated: Don't inform the public about the corrupt actions and stupid decisions that have been made by the BOD and EC. Only forums that ban shooters with these opinions are acceptable.

Phil....how do you feel about a state like Wyoming having the same voting power of Ohio or PA? Did you ever bring up the fact that the majority are being ruled by the minority?

Take a look Mr. Kiner. We have a forum here. A forum that is open. One that gives the trapshooting public a venue to be heard, get educated, discuss ideas, and our leaders or lacking therein. You are participating in our form of positive action.....and you hate it.

Note to other EC and BOD Members. If you do not like what the trapshooting public thinks about you then please show some integrity and resign. Thus far not one has shown they have that.

 

I can believe that Phil Kiner would vote as the people who elected him would want him to, so long as he don't fall into the grasp of the EC and them telling him what to vote for no matter what or he can't be in the Good Ol'Boys" club ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I alled Pro-Matic Co. yesterday in Missouri and left a message to call me back. Well around 6 PM I got a call from the company rep. He advised me that their New Trapshooting model was not out yet at the time of the bidding, But he did say their New Trap cost more than the Pat Traps.

He said he would look over the past paper work of years ago and see if he can find the info on why the bidding was stopped, and call me with the information.

I am looking fwd to his phone call.

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

 

Looks like two very good reasons they were passed over, you can't buy something that isn't there and being fiscally responsible is part of EC and BOD duties.

 

How do we decide the amount of delegates per state? One per 500, or 1,000 shooters, I am leaning toward 1 per 1,000 shooters, some states do not have 500 shooters, if there are a number of states in this category, we should have one delegate per 500 shooters, to have a fair representation of the shooters.

A state w/ few shooters should not have the same power as Pennsylvania.

How do you guys/gals feel?

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

 

The only problem I can see with more than one would be their vote could cancel each other out, which would make the others have even more meaning in either direction once all is said and done ... The Delegates should not just rubber stamp the EC's agenda's when it come to voting on them, without a lot of thought, consideration, logic, and reasoning being applied to secure the future existance of the Organization ... We have seen over the past 15 or more years how that turns out and that has to be curtailed for once and for all ... The ATA is a members organization for the betterment of Trapshooting, the members promote and support the ATA with daily fees ... The ATA from what I have seen over way to many years does not promote shooting or membership drives, the shooter and small clubs all across American and other country's do ... The ATA EC reap the benefit of the members, not the other way around ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

That kind of extreme change won't happen.
The smaller states will never agree and they outnumber the larger states.

You really need to seriously look at starting your own organization.
I think most would be happier in the long run.

 

In fairness of ALL shooters the states should have ONE delegate per STATE!

An example of a delegate per population would be like California with more delegates taking all the water from Great Lake States leaving them in a drought instead of California who deserves the drought because of poor water management over the years.

 

If a state has 400-500 shooters and another one has 5'000 shooters, the larger state should have more say how the organization is run.

GB DLS

 

So just for an example you're saying California should have one of the Great Lake States water because they have more people?

How about all their tax money? Now throw in most of the gasoline because there are more people driving in California and they deserve it because their population is higher.

The ATA should be run with every STATE having an equal say!

 

Leonidas
As long as the majority is ruled by minority the corrupt will stay in business. Keep wishing, hoping and praying.

In the meantime those with common sense understand that this is about shooters, not states. Keep praying Leonidas. Tell N1H1 you need better material.

 

Yeah, that's the craziest most nonsensical idea there is. You've had this explained to you previously. There's no excuse for not correcting your position.

 

Let me get this straight. My dues are being used to pay for booze? Let me say this, if you want booze then pay for it out of your own d... pocket. Do not use my dues/fees to drink on and that goes for the food too. It's not my responsibility or any other member to try and keep the BOD or EC in a manner that they may aspire too. Do not, I repeat Do not freeload off the members of ATA.

 

I am a little confused on this one delegate per State arguement.

Our bylaws only authorize only one Delegate to represent his or her State as an ATA Board of Director member.

I cannot see how any State trap shooting association regardless of how many local delegates can exert any more or less influence on the ATA business when all States or Proviences are limited to one delegate to represent it.

We have only one delegate per State or Province as is. What am I missing here?

 

I have to vote for the BOD qnd EC to get my Special Award/Trophy SH*T ON A SHINGLE award for their meritous duties of in-action for the promotion of the sport of ATA Registered Shooting in the USA and Canada. And I want the Sh*t to be still soft and odorificious so it will remind them of their poor leadership.

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

 

I personally think it has come time for a Hostile Take Over of the ATA by a quorum of ATA Life Members to make a complete transition of all present Officers EC and BOD, CHC, Executive Director of Sparta. Etc.

Lets stand up Fellow ATA Life Members, Let's make a stand for the ATA before it's too late!!

All it takes is a quorum of Life Members at the Meeting at the Grand American.

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

 

I personally think it has come time for a Hostile Take Over of the ATA by a quorum of ATA Life Members to make a complete transition of all present Officers EC and BOD, CHC, Executive Director of Sparta. Etc.

Lets stand up Fellow ATA Life Members, Let's make a stand for the ATA before it's too late!!

All it takes is a quorum of Life Members at the Meeting at the Grand American.

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

OH MY

It might be time for a little break.

LOL

 

Gary,
Are you talking about a civil uprising (coup) , problem would be getting the Life Members to the Grand for the meeting, not standing up against the EC and even BOD for that matter ... I will be there in SPIRIT ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

You hit the nail on the head AZCOTRAP, we need to make a change to the necessary rules to get more representations for the States that have more Registered shooters. We THE ATA cannot be ruled by minority states.

Large states like California, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Ohio where the majority of the shooters are from, should have more say on rules, regulations, and election of officers of the EC and BOD,

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

 

WPT all it would take is a quorum of Life Members at the GAH ATA Meeting for this to happen.
Hostile takeovers is not new to Corp.

It is not a uprising, but a consetorum of life members who have the say to and for the ATA!!!

GB DLS

 

Hostile takeover? By Lifetime members? The 50 plus board members are Lifetime members.

You attempt some takeover of a 501(c)3 and you will have the IRS at your door. This is not a Wall Street business where takeovers happen all the time. You have to elect board members who are willing to change the bylaws that will still be in compliance with IRS. You really should get over this paltry 225,000.00 as 501(c)3's can make donations only to States and other non profit charities as it is.

A. The money can never be recovered.

B. There is no punishment than can be dealt to any BOD or EC member for exercising their duties in good faith. Even if you were successful in punishing someone, you would have very few people wanting the job next time.

C. You are expending and wasting energy and time on something legal and common place that will cause more ranker between ATA members. Direct you energy to tomorrow. Start now finding the ATA a new home. Make them an offer they cannot refuse. Don't forget, the ATA can give notice and escape the lease to if conditions are followed.

D. Important lesson here which has to be learned by everyone in their lifetime. Never trust or do business with a government entity. Unfortunately, some never learn this lesson.

 

No we don't want more representatives for States with larger populations, because then you have a Democracy, better know as mob rule, instead of a representative republic type governance. The makeup of ATA governance is fine just as it is. To pass such a change as you suggest would cause the demise of the the ATA for sure.

 

Sorry, Gary.

The ATA's rules are strategically designed to ensure that the membership can never gain control of the organization.

If you want a more representative organization, you'll have to start a new one.

 

I am thinking a few of the EC voted twice!

 

I wrote this before here ,but will say it again if Sparta closes down no need to buy or build anything !!!!!! Have a Eastern Grand American at the CC in August and have a Western Grand American in Tucson in March or April . If you win in Ohio the ring would say Eastern Grand Champion ,if you win in Tucson Western Grand American Champion !!!!!! Better for all , lots of shooters would make both shoots double the targets sold double the chances to win !!!!!!! Best of all the facilities are already in place no need to build or spend any money . You might get more attendance because of different times of the year with work schedules and such . Think about it shooters in Ca. might drive to Tucson but to Ill. or Ohio not feasible , same way with a shooter in Pa. CC not that far !!!!! Much better than a telephonic shoot where different weather conditions come into play . I know for a fact Rob Taylor said if Sparta closes plan B was a telephonic shoot and guess what spot was first on the list ?????????? Kansas !!!!!!!!! LOL

 

$2.1 million for a building they do not own and may not be able to enter. Not rocket scientists either.

 

Trump could clean this stuff up!