Would You Still Shoot Trap If...

There was no money awarded? Not "no added money," but no cash prizes, but no purse, no lewis, no options...nothing. (Assume a commensurate reduction in entry fees.)

Maybe trophies, belt buckles, etc only?

How about no cash prizes, but maybe some gift certificates and products provided by sponsors?

 

I'm currently exploring whether the presence of money and prizes is the force that is holding Trap back and keeping the sport too easy.

 

You should have an option of "No, but would shoot less and travel less."

 

I shoot practice and have a lot of fun with the ATA/ PITA members who shoot on more of a regular basis than I do ... If I get the itch, I go scratch it, no more problem ... Many people feel you have to shoot registered or the targets don't count which is nothing more than unadulterated BS ... Last year I shot up over 34 1/2 flats of new ammo just shooting practice or playing games for quarters (9,000 or so shells) ... I do not support the direction that ATA is and has been taking and therefore refuse to give them any of my money ... I also do not support the State of Illinois and will not give them any of my money either and so it goes ... I do not care who likes it or does not like it, thats the way it is, mean while back at the ranch ... You have people who profess to be shooters who have never shot the Grand in Vandalia and don't go to any shoots unless they are in the back yard, sorry, thats not shooting where I come from ... "Do as I say, not as I do" would be a good Motto for some of the folks from Sparta, hope they pony up and pitch in to keep the WSRC in operation, seriously doubt it though ... If you don't shoot the Grand you are not a shooter, tha's another bunch of Unadulterated BS claimed by some people who will never shoot the Grand again if and when it gets moved out of their back yard ... They know who they are no need for names ... Feel the Love ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Actually the title of the thread is erroneous, somewhat. Money is seldom "awarded" at a trap shoot unless it is added money by the shoot host or a sponsor. There are no compulsory purses allowed at an ATA shoot, meaning you can shoot targets only, and take home a prize or trophy for winning you class or yardage.

There are options and purses you can play if you want to. You do not contribute any entry fees for purses or options, unless you want a chance of winning those.

 

I very seldom played options, except for the Grand and Jaqua's.
Jaqua's was the best. Everyone played it and even if you shot a lousy score it was possible to at least get your entry money back. (Lewis).
I have always shot for the fun and fellowship.

Regards....Gerald

 

That question should have been asked years ago before the money shooters left the game and to the the motor home trinket shooting crowd!

 

FWIW, this isn't about any particular match. I'm just surprised at how money-oriented trap shooting is. I've competed in IDPA, USPSA, ISSF pistol events, and outside of shooting raced motorcycles, and never have I seen the focus placed on money that I've seen in trap...and apparently, this is even after the alleged glory days that I must've missed since I've only been shooting trap for a couple years!

 

Money has always been in trap, over 100 years before the ATA came about. Big money is supposed to be in live pigeon trap, but not known to me first hand.

Just shoot your targets, play the options if you want to. But first time you break 100 or earn a full yard, guess what? Chances are you will WANT to play the money.

 

If you never have, you must attend a "Live Bird Shoot" total different world and the shooters are not there to make friends being as they got a lot on the line and take it very seriously ... Its very entrtaining and well worth your time ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Perhaps so WPT, but our very popular form of trap shooting evolved from live bird shooting. Your comment would seem to endorse the concept of the current problem of ATA is it is too easily affordable by the common folk. I take it they don't argue about the move to Sparta?

 

Great post.

In order to move forward as a sport and not a clubhouse gambling game, Trap needs to get the money out of all but a few very defined events.

Frankly, all money should be out of Amateur Trap, and the money players should be in a professional league.

 

I feel that all Championship events should have madatory money on them ... They can figure away to take the Top Guns out and let them play for their own money so you don't feel like you got your pocket picked ... Not very popular but just my opinion ... I'm not talking any big amount just enough to make it and keep it interesting ... It will never happen so not a big deal ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Oh, it's entertaining all right.

And I have made quite a few good friends. Something about knowing that you are all shooting the toughest shotgun game. That one bird, one wing beat, one nano second of hesitation, can cost you thousands of dollars in winnings. Knowing you belong to a fraternity that started it all kind of brings you all a little closer. Mutual respect I think.

When one of THE BEST, All American, Big Dog, High Average, everybody knows your name ATA Trapshooters, who missed 4 that day, shakes your hand and tells you that he was impressed with the way you just killed them all in ring 5, it does validate the fact that the game IS the toughest.

A "lot" of money is subjective I guess. For me putting between $500.00 and $1000.00 on the line for 25 or 30 birds is a"lot". For some of the guys it's fun money.

It IS a whole different world. That is one of the reasons Flyersarebest.

Well, that, AND THE MONEY.

 

To make the Texas State Team I have to compete in at least 2 zone shoots. I'm lucky to have one nearby but the others are anywhere from 450 miles to 606 miles away. Next years state championship will be 606 miles away. A lot of mileage to cover just to make the state team.

 

You say get the money out, why? A pro league requires sponsors, which sponsors require media exposure for increased market share. When even trap shooters agree watching someone else shoot is boring, it is not broadcast during the Olympics, how would pro league come to exist or substain an existance?

How would you become a pro? Maintain a AAA/27/AAA average? Once you did are you kicked out of ATA? Can you prevent sandbagging? What if all you do is end up killing off ATA for sure?

Still curious as to what "money" is there in ATA? Except for added money which usually exists in very large shoots, shooters are usually shooting for targets only and those who want to put up their own money to compete against other shooters who put up their own money. Where is the money? Remember the add per money the Martins put up and the spike in attendence and the fall again when the added money was not there the following year? Options and purses are not mandatory, so I am wondering where all this money is.

 

AZCO: Where were you in the 60s and 70s when there was money to be made, Cars to be won?

GB DLS

 

OOOOooooo I dis-agree

 

DLS, I did not start until early 70' but I remember the big shoots like Harrah's in Vegas where big cash, cars, etc were won.

Are you trying to say compulsory purses were allowed then?

If you read my post again, you will see I am talking about "the now", not back "when."

 

See, there's a fundamental difference in thinking right there. You see "money" in trap shooting as "added money" provided by sponsors and don't consider folks playing for each other's entry fees as "money."

In no other competition (outside of poker tournaments) I've participated in have folks been able to win any cash back, regardless of whether it was "added money" or just money from entry fees. In ISSF, you only win trophies, and maybe if you're *really* good and spend a bunch on traveling, you might earn slots to shoot at World Cups and the Olympics. In USPSA/IDPA, you might win a gun, but more likely gun parts, accessories, etc. There's no cash involved. One exception might be the NRA National Action Pistol Championship (The Bianchi Cup), where they do have some cash prizes, but that's about the only one I can think of.
Heck, in amateur motorcycle roadracing (WERA, CCS, etc) you could be spending much more than ATA trapshooting, literally risking life and limb, for a trophy...and *maybe* some contingency cash if you're using the right tires or fairings and have stickers on your bike and/or leathers.

Folks just do it for the fun of competition and the love of the sport.

 

Hmmm, maybe I am misunderstanding the issue of money in trapshooting. Thousands for gun, thousands for shells, incidentals like ear and eye protection, clothing, transportation, meals, rooms, tec.

 

Please, trap is nothing compared to racing. Even karts and motorcycles make trap look cheap. Spend about $4-5k for a race bike, about $500 for a trailer. About $1k for a racing suit, helmet, and gloves (might have to be replaced if you crash, otherwise replace every other year). About $1k in spare parts and bodywork. About $1k for your school to get a license. $100/year for license. About $300/weekend in tires, gas, and other consumables for the bike. If you race three classes and do a couple practice sessions, that's about $300-400/weekend. Engine rebuild once/year for $1k. Let's say you do 10 weekends/year. Your first year is about $15k. After that, assuming you don't crash at all, it's about $6-7k, not including traveling expenses. That's on the cheap end of things and it can go up significantly from there. And if your tops in your class on a weekend and you have the right tires, bodywork, and or helmet and have the right stickers on your bike, you might get get a plastic trophy and enough contingency money to cover your entry fees and consumables for that weekend. Just remember though, there's no Lewis Class in racing.