What's going on? Update

Merlo is still on undercover assignment in Sparta -

 

The good news, he may have found a significant other -

 

Meanwhile, undeterred by the budget impasse the IDNR has brought in the lawn work replacements for the coming season.

 

Even though a local Kool Aid drinker was already working to get things ready for August.

 

I thought maybe the picture under the bridge was taken at the close of the EC meeting since the grounds are closed. You know, their always trying to save member money by not renting a conference room.

 

Double secret probation is rough.

 

Looks like the Sparta boys are digging out the empties to start reloading for the BIG upcoming Grand.

 

Some are even doing weapons checks to make sure everything's A. O. K.

 

I think I recognize that one guy, used to be the Mayor of Sparta and gave shooting clinics on the side ... Is that guy who found his significant other copping and feel and a peck all at the same time ..? I know I know the guy with the lawn mower, mowing snow and digging out shells to reload ... Lower right hand picture is him setting off one of his reloads to make sure they got enough powder in them , he uses the bath room scale to measure the powder drops and a shot glass for the shot, said he is still dialing it in but getting really close ... I told him weight the keg of powder, divide by the number of shells he is going to reload and divide the powder up accordingly that will be more than enough and close enough so they don't check your loads if the shot ain't running out of them ... He said he will let me know how it turns out ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

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Some very interesting news here about the State of Illinois and the taxes ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I understand negotiations are picking up speed now that the proper state officials have been identified and the necessary procedures have been agreed upon. I believe no commitments have been given as yet but indications are things are moving in the right direction.

 

You mean "Fantastic Direction " don't you ...? Happy New Year ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

There are four directions they can go "up--down, in--out, your choice your guess is as good as the next. All are described as "Fantastic Direction" Happy New Year

 

I guess the updates are still being held close to the vest but the ATA and IDNR supposedly have an agreement in place if the budget impasse isn't resolved quickly. My understanding is the ATA will rent Sparta for three months this summer. Once again I guess this is all supposed to be super secret but I'll never understand why. The ATA could be setting themselves up for a huge financial loss if they don't get their plan out to the shooters so they can plan accordingly. It just seems all the back room dealings with no indication of what's transpiring will have a real negative affect on attendance. I guess you never want to disclose information until it's rock solid but I don't see anything rock solid in this situation

 

A big thanks to Merlo who's still undercover in Sparta. It's a big effort on his part so if anyone's ever driving through you could leave cigarettes and toilet paper under the back left corner of the green dumpster behind Walmart. That guy gets the info.

 

Why would they(the ATA want to rent The Sparta WRSC for 3 months, ) 3 weeks at the most would be enough.

Whats the FLOOD WATER LEVEL IN THE TRAPS LIKE? and the Camping areas? Vendor Building water damage?

Chime in guys why 3 months? Do They have a lot of money to throw away? For that extra 10+ weeks.

Gary Bryant.........................Dr.longshot

 

The State can set any limits on time they want , 3 months might be the least they will rent it on a temporary basis ... Based on the rate it cost the State ( 3 Million) that should set the ATA back about $750,000 as their 1/4 (25%) of what it costs the state, based on 3 million a year, plus, plus, plus ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Doc, don't know why three months and I also couldn't get an answer regarding facility maintainence. I don't know if the ATA would be renting Sparta fully furnished if you will or if the rental is barebones. When I first posted I had heard this from one person since then another has verified it. While hoping for an agreement to be in place soon regarding the Illinois budget the ATA is preparing to do everything possible to hold Grand in Sparta even knowing that if the attendance is down there could be a sizeable loss of money.

 

I delved into it a little deeper and made a phone call to a friend who is a retired Business Agent from one of the bigger Teamster Locals in Illinois ... I was told that even if its rented on a temporary basis the Union worker will have to be placed in the position they had prior to if they had been laid off (which they have not) so, the ATA would then have to not only pay what ever amount of rental but also the Health and Welfare of those workers to the Union ... He said he will make a few calls to see who and what the agreement is with the State on those workers but he seems to think they are bound by the contract with the State of Illinois as long as any of the State Parks use Union employees as past practice ... This could get very costly if the agreement includes a contractual binder for the benefits to be paid up to and possibly beyond the dates of the rental agreement ... I will have those answers in a few days after he makes some calls ... The Union will no doubt have a picket line in place if all of the rules are not adhered to and that would get ugly ... Time will tell ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Thanks WPT for going to the Root of things and getting some REAL answers on this Union matter.

Very interesting reading, and I hope one of the Powers that be are reading this also.

 

The "Fantastic Direction" seems to be working very well. I guess there has been such an unexpected response regarding the campsites the ATA has decided to extend the renewal deadline another ten days. The vendors reaction has also created such excitement among the ATA leadership that they are still negotiating to make sure everything works out perfectly. This could be another huge Grand American with many, many important shooters from the great state of Illinois. You can smell the excitement in the air around Sparta or perhaps that's just the guys on Merlo's support group. Stand by!

 

I got a call last night from my friend who is retired , formerly a Business Agent and 40 year member of the Teamsters ... He talked to a Steward and the Business Agent for the members who are employed by the State of Illinois that govern the workers at the State Parks ... The State of Illinois (will not) does not have to give any information with regard to a rental or lease but the States employees will be on the pay roll and probably built into the rental or lease agreement at least while the facility is in operation ... If any part of the facility is operational the States employees have to be on the ground according to the contractual agreement between the Union and the State of Illinois ... Thinking about it, this makes sense being as they cover each others backs and are a reasonably tight nit group of people once established ... I was also told that as long as the State owns said property they are committed to having Organized workers on site to maintain the property bound by the contract between the State and the Union .... I hope this makes sense, now all we can do it wait and see ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Boy, you talk about a pig in a poke! I don't feel the right hand has any idea what the left is doing. I not really sure who is connected to the right hand and who is connected to the left one. The lack of communication leave the animals to make up their own theories. And I'm sure they will! Stand-by..you may be shocked or be the one saying "I told you so!" Time will tell!

 

Surely is a confusing situation. No one seems to be on the same page. While the bigwigs are meeting inside at Sparta
The supporters are outside celebrating the "Fantastic Direction" of the ATA. Can you recognize Grntitan or perhaps Hunter44?

 

I just received this from my State Association Secretary. Looks real to me. Though everyone would be interested.

 

Thanks HistoryBuff.

 

"In early 2016 the ATA will attempt to negotiate a permanent addendum to our lease...."
The key word here is ATTEMPT.

 

Someone may wonder what a MOU / Letter of Understanding is.

A memorandum of understanding (MOU) may be used as a confirmation of agreed upon terms when an oral agreement has not been reduced to a formal contract.

It is not a contract by any party. I do not have a dog in the fight but a MOU is as valuable as the paper it is written on.

 

So, bottom line is some time in April they may have a lease agreement to have the grand in Sparta. This only continues to get goofier. And only at that time in April will the ATA discuss the terms of a possible agreement with the state.

Goofier than that lease posted.

 

Wonder why this wasn't posted on the other site by some of the insiders?

 

Where else would they go? The CC was not very welcoming. A slim hope is better than no hope.

 

Why worry so much about the "Grand", when the "ATA" sets their "spending" to levels that rely on "investments" making money.

Some do not want to understand there is not an adjustment in spending for a up or down market. And, 2016 has a very good start for "investments" to take a big hit.

It is math, not magic .... spend what you know you can, not what you wish you could. So .... with the "odds" of the 2016 "Grand" making money being very slim, and "investments" looking even less hopeful .... you have to ask why risk money you do not have ???.

Here is an idea for the Kool Aid crowd .... pay the 116k "salary", and buy the "gift" shotgun, ONLY if the "profit" from the "Grand" in Sparta makes the needed 132k, since that is what they are fighting so hard for.

 

OK then, good deal, everything's decided and things are set for 2016 and beyond. The Sparta boys are getting guns dialed in.
Some of Illinois best shooters are also warming up for the big shoot!
Game, set, match. Good job. The future looks bright as there's probably enough money to keep things going strong at least four or five more years. Outstanding! I'll say right here and now, I'll bet there will be over 500 maybe 600 shooters in this years handicap championship. Man are shooters getting pumped.

 

Does the details of this MOU address exactly what costs ATA will cover concerning employee wages during that 3 month period? No idea of how many will be on that payout sheet but paying union wages for 3 months is gonna cost a few pennies even if just a few are included? Bright at any and all costs?

HAP

 

Just what is a signature sponsor ?

 

Hap,

Few have the details of the Memorandum of Understanding. The real question is " Will our Delegates just listen to a summarization and vote as in the past? Or will they demand to receive and read each and every new agreement. They had no idea of the details contained in past leases of the ATA or THOF, yet gave their support. None seem to be upset with the Executive Committee when they learned of those details.

The real shame is that while the number of registered ATA Gun Clubs and registered targets diminish each year, emphasis is placed on the larger tournaments instead.

 

MOU - - No delegates will look into this any more than the other crap. Martin continues to put his name on the worst decisions made in trapshooting. jmho

 

Kenny, most of the delegates will play follow the leader come August? We'll see how that works out but as long as we have people that can afford to put more money into a failed decision everything is ok, according to some.

You're absolutely correct, losing the member clubs at an alarming rate means little as long as we have the major shoots. Saying one thing and doing something else seems to be more than an assumption.

HAP

 

I wondered the same thing. The letter states "for the first time"

Another thing that caught my old eyes are the words, " the Martins have agreed to be "signature sponsors". As in, they were asked for more help?

If the Martins weren't "signature" sponsors the last time they donated all that money how much do you have to give the ata to get on the "signature sponsors" list?

 

Hap,

I read somewhere, the ATA has an agreement with the state that they don't have to pay prevailing wage for their employees. Maybe History Buff knows that document.

So my question of can the Grand go on without the budget or the whole park open has been answered.

 

It means the name Martin will be on a lot of stuff.

 

Thank you HB for the update ... (You the Man) ....
The notification letter must of been written by a Politician, basically says nothing but hints at what many want to hear (bait) ... The folks at IDNR do not have the power to make the deal, it has to go through the Governor's Office for approval and be signed and accepted by him because it effects the State's financial and deficit ... Governor Rauner has been stead fast and offered a compromise that has not been responded to by the democratic organization and its principles ... The folks at IDNR obviously do not read the Boss's memorandums if anyone from the IDNR even remotely hinted about a deal without the Governors blessing its hot air , and smoke and mirrors at best ... This will be interesting to see how this or if this baby flies ... The only thing in that letter that is positive is the Martins being a signature sponsor and being recognized as such for all to see ... They truly walk the walk and put their money where their mouth is ...WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The "signature sponsors" list should have the names of all the people that told the ata they would pay their own way for ALL expenses and the guy that tells them he doesn't want the gun they still give away.

 

Thanks for the news flash.

Now if you have the answer to how much you have to GIVE the ata, to get on the "first time" signature sponsors list can you post that.

 

Heck, if they AGREED to give the ata more money, after all they GAVE them the last time around the sign out front should be changed.

All you have to do is get that guy that lives close to the place to ride over on his tractor and flip the W upside down.

OK, I know the words are spelled out on the sign. Take down the word WORLD and replace it with MARTIN.

Flip the W and they only have to have the local blacksmith fab 4 new letters.

People seeing it might think it looks kinda, thrown together but you know the saying about a picture being worth more than words.

 

If its the "First time" the list for "Signature Sponsors" will be very short and have only the Martins name on it ...

I seriously doubt the ATA can make a deal with the State about Organized Labor and wages , someone is going to pay the differential to any and all of the Union employees, that's the way it works when Unions are involved ... I would love to see anything that says otherwise, signed and agreed to by the Union Representatives ... The ATA is not the attraction or bargaining agent they think they are so they will pay dearly if any agreement comes about to lease the facility ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I can see the picket lines now, not necessarily a full blown strike, but what is called an informational strike. This happened when I was working on the NFL Ravens stadium. The AFLCIO did not like the idea that there were some non union workers there.

 

A "signature" or "title" sponsor pays to be the "host" of an event. In NASCAR it is someone like Pepsi or Coca-Cola to "host" the Pepsi or Coca-Cola 400.

They do this for advertising and a way to make additional money. Most of the time they have full control of the event and collect money from other advertising and "fees".

"Sparta" will be a "Satellite Grand", because the "ATA" will no longer be the "host". They will just collect a "fee" for ??? package.

 

Yeah, but we'll all have guns.

 

Took care of the website logo for them.

No charge

 

They didn't rename the Steelers, the Hienz.

 

duffkjs06,

I have no other details and earnestly await for them as you and others do. I only passed on an ATA communication update.

Like everyone else, I have many questions and no answers. I expect someone will send a FOIA Request soon and then we'll see just what the terms of the agreement are and make personal judgments whether it is in the best interests of our sport, association, members & clubs.

President Mr. Morris said : "In early 2016 the ATA will attempt to negotiate a permanent addendum to our lease of the same nature of the MOU which would apply to the remaining life of the lease" which I believe was extended to 2026. I would sincerely hope that no decision or vote of approval would be taken until after the 2016 Grand American tournament. It is imperative that an annual 3-month lease of the WSRC by the ATA be proven to not cause a substantial financial loss.

I agree that the IDNR must have received the "green light" from the Governor's office before sitting down with the ATA. I don't know that the Governor actually needs to pen his name to the agreement and believe he has authorized the IDNR to proceed with the MOU but there is no doubt in my mind, it cannot cost the State of Illinois any additional financial loss, and more likely will bring them a small amount of revenue.

 

Gosh I hope this isn't going to be a year to year proposition...

We need to get this settled once and for all so everyone who is planning on attending can get on with their plans.

 

??????? He gave them permission to say we may talk later? The gov had the authority to sign a new lease. He did not do that. Obvisously the governor at least nixed that.
MOU = nod and a handshake. Not a lick and a promise.

 

Prime example of a MOU

If you ATA leaders could find a venue that was not relying on a gun hate state and it's politicians I will consider attending or caring. I wont get my hopes up. Please respond.

Thyrus

 

Just my guess. According to what I've read, there is not an IDNR director at present. I wouldn't think any of the 12 State employees onsite would have authority to enter into discussion/negotiations with the ATA. Someone had to give the "green light" and I agree, the Governor did not sign a new lease. He didn't sign the last two lease agreements either. I believe the IDNR Director did. I also assume the Governor would not agree to open the WSRC without absolute assurance that the State will not only be shielded from any financial losses but most likely will profit.

The announcement states that there is a signed memorandum of understanding between the ATA & IDNR. I'm pretty sure all State agreements are sent up the chain for a comprehensive legal review.

I'm open-minded. Who else may have authorized these discussions and agreement? Are those politicians involved in this matter trying to undermine the Governor?

 

No they didn't. BUT, Three Rivers Stadium DID become Hienz field.

If you PAY ENOUGH you get your name on the sign. The place the event is held.

Nice try though. It would have made sense if the place was ever called Steelers Field.

 

The idea that some money is better than no money does not apply to something of the size and scope of "Sparta".

The cost of something like that to sit "idol" vs the cost of "full operation" is worlds apart. The State of Illinois could "lose money" very easily, based on past revenue of the "Grand" vs cost of operation. Or .... the "rent" would far exceed anything that the "ATA" should pay.

Look at it like having an event in a town vs running the town to have an event.

 

Could have been called The Pit as Pitt pays to play also.

 

You have to be more than open minded. Downright wishful to read anything but what is written that we may agree agree to talk later . There is no authorization needed of a MOU.

MOU = Wishful thinking on one side and yeah sure on the other.

 

HB,
This Governor(Rauner) did not sign the last 2 lease agreements because he was not the Governor when they were signed ... If there is not a Director at the IDNR someone would have to be a designated contact to deal directly with the Governors Staff before any conclusive actions can be taken, per the chain of command ... Its not as easy as they make it sound in that letter, the State would no doubt demand insurance (assurance) that they will not be responsible for any costs involved from start to finish and any and all will revert to the ATA and or a signature sponsor (Co - signer) to accept all responsibility ... This is sounding ugly already and nothing has happened as of yet ... WPT ... (YAC) ...


I think Flyers are best got the right idea as he posted above "Martin Shooting and Camp Ground" has a nice ring to it ...

 

Bradford can be expected to get off his knees and announce the Hall of Fame will be moving the artifacts into the building starting this week.
I pray that the artifacts can be returned immediately.

Please sound off if you think the HOF will start moving artifacts in now.

 

A notice of default was sent by the ATA director to the State of Illinois in the fall. Meaning Illinois failed to uphold their end of a legally agreed lease bound by a contract.

Now someone has announced that they have a verbal agreement to discuss the possibility of an agreement following the breach of contract on the part of Illinois. Of what value is an imagined agreement worth when the legally binding agreement was not worth anything.

What would Donald Trump do and which party reminds you of Hillary?

 

Excellent point! I would not be in a hurry to meet and enter into another agreement with someone who failed to abide by our previous agreement. I don't care what the conditions.

 

It seems the Kool Aid drinkers in the twilight zone seem to feel the latest development is monumental, absolutely fantastic. I guess we're pretty dumb over here to be missing the great future options this presents. At least one poster seems to think the ATA has opened the door for opportunities in the future to a wonderful expansion. Wonder how much they'll need Bill Martin to chip in for the great future options. So far they haven't really impressed many with their past decisions unless you're of the Kool Aid persuasion.

 

$4,000,000.00. Remember this number.
It will be on the test.

Ron Burdick

 

$4,000,000.00 is chicken feed in the eyes of the current administration. They can finance at least three more Grands for that kind of money. Then they could always sell the HOF to Illinois for more money. Oh, crap, I forgot they already did that but forgot to get the money. Darn, darn, darn but remember they still have a plan that hopefully they can negotiate MOU's all the way out to 2026. Sure hope they can still get others money when they need it.

 

"It's hard to imagine how they can put a negative spin on this great news but they will try" great quote by Hunter44 the well known esteemed shooter of the Kool Aid Brigade.

 

The answer is "$4,000,000.00" .... so the "question" could be ....

1. What is the current "value" of the ATA with the current drops in "investments" ????

2. What is the projected operating cost for the ATA in 2016 ????

3. What is the projected profit for 2016 PULL LLC in 2016 from the ATA ????

4. How much is it going to cost to finish the HOF ????

 

An agreed promise to discuss something means nothing.

In April we can have a formal contract. But again, where else can they go? OH was not too interested. The taste of corruption lingers.

 

Who trusts a mou with the organization that failed to honor the last contract?

 

M O U Move On United M O U Move on Undeclared Move Over Undecided

 

He already did. Is the HOF open, it should have many things inside.

Below is from the AUG 2015 EC Minutes

 

This is something the delegates have to vote on or am I wrong?

From post above - - - why is it the HOF does not believe this? They have had the information for several weeks but no movement there.

HOF is still empty?

 

None of this stuff is worth pile of sand without the minutes which the ATA of course does not want to disclose yet and the consent of the delegates. No public statement from Illinois. No atta boys from the governor. I can expect a local state rep to puff his chest out but this is all meaningless.

Where's the minutes?

MOU joke at best.

 

The minutes will be posted when approved at the next meeting, April?

 

Very interesting how certain individuals two years ago were talking about suing the ATA and how the organization was going down the drain. Lead by individuals who offered nothing in the way of support for the shooters trying their best to keep shooting alive at the local clubs. I think one comment might have been swirling down the drain. Now this same individual seems to think the MOU will lead to a great future with great events coming to Sparta. I guess the little clubs be damned.

 

Welther - I think the EC has complete control to make decisions when the Delegates are not in session. I doubt there's anything that could be done until the delegates reassemble. If anyone knows for sure please let us know.

 

The old stadium was imploded, the new stadium had naming rights from the Hienz family, FOR MONEY.

Nice try, try again.

 

duff

What happened? Who is pissed and about what? Are you sure you understand the thread?

 

Nothing has happened, the ATA is still on it's collective knees, asking for forgiveness to the whole state of Ohio.

 

How is that? Why do you hate Ohio? Who did something to Ohio and what does that have to do with what happened and with the thread. Tell us what happened.

It seems the thread is about nothing new but your acknowledgement that you hate OH.

 

You can be sure most trapshooters from NY and OH have similar views of trapshooting. Either state is outvoted by a non shooter state like Rhode Island. It is unfortunate that Duff is too young to know that.

Both states attend each other's shoots. The Heritage Inn is usually full of NY shooters. Shoots in NY have a lot of OH shooters. Of course with Duff representing the state I guess that could change.

 

duffkjs06 - enjoying a little Jack and Coke are we?

 

FROM the Heinz family?????

"The stadium opened in 2001, after the controlled implosion of the teams' previous stadium, Three Rivers Stadium. The stadium is named for the locally based H. J. Heinz company, which purchased the naming rights in 2001."

Locally based as in the plant is about a mile away from the field.

The Heinz Corp. PURCHASED the naming rights. That is how it works. The corporation or person or family that bids, gives, donates, the highest gets to name the place.

If you would have wanted your name on that field, and had enough money to put up, you could have named it anything you wanted.

I would hope it was something other than Duffkjs Field. That sounds too much like Duffas Field.

The people that put up the most money get to name the place. That is why the grounds should be named the MSRC.

There ya go, I tried to splain it to you again.

 

Could you only imagine if Tampon had the winning bid! I guess their slogan would be "We may not be #1 but were up in there".

 

Maybe a little crack and a joke?

 

Lots of things going on in Sparta. Secret, Double Secret and Super Secret meetings scheduled for the next 5 days. Things are getting so important you can see Merlo on the background gathering things for deep undercover work. Trusty partner Chico will continue to keep track of their belongings and hopefully get Merlo's bike fixed. I'm sure we'll continue to get updates periodically as few of the Kool Aid Brigade have full time jobs so gathering info is pretty easy. That might be their last can of SpaghettiO's so if anyone can help I'm sure Merlo and Chico will appreciate it.

 

From the ATA website

It is the opinion of our legal representatives that by suspending shooting with no indication of resumption, the State has defaulted on our Lease Agreement for the use of the facility for the Grand American. The lease provides that a defaulting party be given 60 days to remedy an alleged default. The party alleging default may extend this time period if desired. We will be notifying the State in the next few days of their default on the agreement and will begin exploring possible contingency options, should the need arise, for the 2016 Grand American.

We accused these guys of failing to abide by their contract.

 

From Gipson to Illinois
We will be notifying the State in the next few days of their default on the agreement and will begin exploring possible contingency options, should the need arise, for the 2016 Grand American.

Illinois did not blink. Gipson isn't much of a card player.

 

User 1 ,

I was all set to remark about the "Possible" 2016 PULL LLC, and here at #3 you already had that in mind.

We shall wait and see if anything (an LLC) in the minutes come through without the full name such as the minutes mentioning PULL LLC without the 2012 in front of it.

It took some serious digging to find out that 2012 had been omitted in the minutes...

"Typo" was the cause I guess, but ALL EC had the minutes to read, and then give approval by the next meeting. They all missed this Typo...Typos do happen I have been told.

And Ron, we'll keep that $4,000,000.00 in the memory bank !

 

Latest news out of Sparta indicates the Governor will be visiting Sparta on Friday the 15th to make an exciting speech. Locals are going insane with optimism. First thoughts included erecting a large stage to honor the Gov and Gipson.

Then cooler heads prevailed and after checking costs and the stage idea was toned down a tad.

Immediately the local civil servants began spreading the word regarding the upcoming event and began encouraging interested locals to make sure they attend. This is going to be a really, really big event.

 

Received a coded MOU from Merlo today.

"Please agree to agree in the future to pay very close attention to the governor's speech. Merlo out."

 

A word to the wise, if you find one of those sheep with a red ribbon, don't mess with it, that's the EC's girl for their secret meetings.

 

And this is why they won't do a conference call...just not practical in this kind of situation.

 

So, that is the "grand" Stage everyone is talking about, sure beats that soap box they had at first ..? Some of the Locals waiting to see if they are going to have a job, just camping out ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

http://www.kfvs12.com/story/3093726...american-trapshooting-tournament-in-sparta-il

 

Merlo says the governor isn't even showing for the big shin dig. Says he will cancel. What does that tell you?

 

Great to see accurate information "in the news" ....

"The competition moved from Vendalia [sic], Ohio to Sparta in 2001." .... what was the attendance in 2001 through 2005 ???? and did it make all those millions in "annual economic impact" ....

"The Grand American draws more than 16,000 people to Sparta including more than 4,600 competitors each year." really ???? that is NOT a "estimated" TOTAL from ALL shooting ???? and just the "Grand American" ....

"A 2013 study estimated that the annual economic impact of the Grand American alone was $10-$12 million to the area." .... please tell who conducted the "2013 study estimate" ....

"Adding in other events throughout the year would likely double this impact, so in the nine years of the WSRC’s existence, the estimated impact has totaled over $180 million." .... Now you lost me again .... it moved to "Sparta in 2001" and "in the nine years of the WSRC’s existence" it has a "estimated impact" of "over $180 million" ????? Is that "over $180 million estimate" for "nine years" from 2001 to ?????

Good job www.kfvs12.com .... The "ATA" needs you ....