The ATA EC won’t figure it out! Ammo shortage?

There is an ammo shortage. Do you think the dummies at the top are bright enough to adjust the programs?

 

Smithy, What would you suggest? A lot of shooters shoot reloads.

 

Which events would you have omitted?

 

Seems like primers may be in shorter supply than ammo.

Dave Berlet

 

I might be wrong, but given the current political landscape, it seems to be smarter to hold on to all of your ammo rather than pissing it away on few silly ATA events.

 

If the ammo situation continues all summer I think you'll see a lot less participation in the preliminary events vs main events.

 

To each his own.....I have a good supply of shells, shot, powder, primers, to last all summer. I plan to shot registered events as much as I can & have a good time doing it!

 

Where did I say “omit”?

The 200 bird singles game was toooo long 40 years ago. In this age 75 would be
fine. Make the targets harder. We don’t need 100 caps or doubles. Make those more challenging. Boring combined with hard to find ammo will end what is left of the clown ran organization.

 

It is the democraps intention to make components and ammunition scarce if they can't do away with it all together ... This would make guns useless and easier to eliminate also ... There is something brewing that is not obvious as of yet but I for one and many of my shooting friends will shoot less until we can figure out which direction all of this is heading ... I would not want to become paranoid and eliminate shooting all together but cutting back considerably for while I would say is in order ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

You claim to be a trap shooter. But you are unaware that there is a shortage of lead powder and primers. ??????

 

How do you expect the clubs to make any money if you shorten or eliminate events?

 

The Grand is still 6 months away so the ammo and component thing could change by then. The sky is not falling and I believe things will start to turn better in time. Crazy Joe in the White House doesn't help though. I have passed on ammo several times in the past month. Just don't want to add to the crazy buying. Components, now there is the tough ones to find now.

 

They just don't care...Heck they may be responsible for the ammo shortage and we just don't know it yet.

 

Jumanji....I am guessing you are an EC member. You sure think like one.

No one said to eliminate an event. Please pay attention!

Making the events shorter means there will be breaks. Time to eat. Get refreshments. Spend money on a tip board. Etc. That makes money for the club. If your club only makes money on targets your narrow minded club is doomed!

The shorter events means more will show up. More refreshments and food.

Or we can just do it the Jumanji way. Have boring 200 bird events for the few that have shells.

The protector only clubs are doing good. They go out shoot a 10 or 20 bird event. Come in get a sandwich and a coke and go back out. $$$$

 

Now this is the kind of out-side-the-box the box thinking this sport needs! Let’s shorten all the events to 10 targets! The clubs will make up the lack of target revenue by selling $1.50 hot dogs and $1.00 cokes. All the most successful clubs near me would much rather throw less targets because they all know the real money is in the lunch counter. I hate when I go to the club to shoot 300 targets and they never give me a break to stop and get lunch. I think I’m going to invest in a blacktop company because with your plan all the clubs will need bigger parking lots.

Seriously, Do you really believe what you are spouting?

 

I want to shoot where you do. Most clubs charge $3-5 for a hot dog around here. Coke for $1, more like $3.

 

Dear Clueless Jumanji....at the top of the forum, you will see where one of the most successful clubs in the US is having a very short meat shoot. There will be as many people there as some of the queer mini grandless grands in the south. Yep, another Moulton meat shoot grand.

They will use very few shells. The club will make a lot of money. They will have a lot of breaks. No registered targets.

 

The one club I help out at gives away free hotdogs to all shooters. Cokes are still $1.00 though. Donation, shooters honor, throw your buck in the cup in the fridge. We throw enough targets during the two days a week we are open to make that happen. Never had a 10 target event in over 100 years (well at least the 40 I've been going there, I'm not that old). I guess if we took the advice in this thread and shortened the events we'd do that much better.

 

I admit to being clueless. Please show me in plain math how less targets in the air = more revenue for the club? I must have been sick the day in business school where they taught us selling less product makes the business more money. Maybe I should have went to Ohio State instead?

 

If only the ''Graph Master'' was here?

 

One of the General Contractors I supplied had an engraved plaque on his desk that said, "We lose money on every job, but we make it up in volume."

How to make a million dollars operating a Gun Club: start with two million.

 

I

Yes you are clueless. And one of us can’t read. I can’t see where anyone said less targets equals more money. But I understand that I have enough shells to shoot sporting clays. I have enough for a few protector games on Tuesday. I don’t have enough to shoot 300 rounds a day for no money in return. I might have enough for a 50 bird meat shoot like Moulton.

$4.00 cheeseburger at our place. $1.50 coke and I don’t need primers to get either one.

That’s just me.

The clubs losing money shoot ATA only.

 

Obviously you are clueless about the kind of events he is referring to.

 

Shell shortage is already doing that -- our 2021 shell and bird order went in last August - still have not shown up. On any given night 50% to 70% of the shooters are buying their shells from the club - Good price- and the club makes a little -- Don't know if we will have our winter shoot due to lack of shell at the club. let alone schedule our leagues?

 

I keep reading the thread title and OP and he's calling out the ATA and the EC. What other events could he be referring to? Is he proposing the ATA start registering 10 bird meat shoots? Help me out here.

 

Two simple questions:

1. How much money do you make shooting sporting clays?
2. Please explain in clear language how any reasonable person can expect a club that shortens events to less targets will not throw less targets?

I'm not an expert in math but if I have 100 shooters show up to shoot a 50 target event, we'll probably throw more targets than if the same 100 shooters show up to shoot a 25 or 10 target event. If you want, I can probably plug in some different numbers and try the math again but I think it's still going to add up to more targets in the air = more revenue for the club.

 

I do understand that shells and reloading components are getting harder to find but you really want to throw less targets to punish the shooters and clubs that planned ahead and have plenty of shells? All this to help out the shooters that didn't?

Sounds like socialism to me.

 

The ATA got into trouble when they left Vandalia and went from 5000 shooters to 2000 shooters. To throw the same amount of targets today as they did they have had to add days and events to the program. 5000 shooters buying food, shells guns and shooting things spend more money than 2000 shooters even when the same number of targes are thrown.

I think what is being referred to here is that the ATA needs to add members instead of trying to get the ones they have to shoot more targets. More shooters shooting.

 

Specifically, by the numbers, what would you do to solve the problem of boring events and limited ammo?

 

Make the handicap events shorter and more challenging! Do we need 200 bird events to find a winner? Moulton is having a 50 bird meat shoot. It will be bigger than some grands.

We can bitch and give advice all day. We can come up with a feasible plan. The EC members don’t have to listen to anyone! Hayes isn’t even a delegate. Who came up with that rule?

Why would the EC care. They are in line to get the free K80 combo they voted on. In the meantime the clubs that are in it for their members keep plugging away.

Does your delegate have a plan? I bet he doesn’t give a rat’s ass. He just wants to know where his parking spot is.

 

Do you think that the 200 bird events are running off shooters? If so, why? What would the effect of shorter programs be on clubs who rely on sales to survive? A while ago, there was a discussion about there being fewer and fewer profitable/successful clubs. How will fewer events improve the P & L picture for tentative clubs? It feels like our sport is walking a tightrope. If we make changes, will they be changes for the sake of change, or will they be changes that will enhance the viability of the business model that is the only way most shooters have to enjoy the sport?

You raise good questions. How will small to mid sized clubs stay alive. What does the sport look like in 10 years?

 

Ohio is a trapshooting state. It never was an ATA State. Trapshooting is a sport. ATA is an organization. Ohio doesn’t need the ATA. Pennsylvania doesn’t need the ATA.

I can’t think of any successful small clubs in Ohio that rely on registered shooting. I can walk to 4 clubs in a morning. None rely on the ATA. At best one of nine targets are registered in Ohio. At one time one of six were registered in the Vandalia days.

We have league shoots bigger than a grand. Registered shooting is an after thought in Ohio.

 

Then why does Ohio have registered shooting at all?

 

The heart and soul of trapshooting in our area(northwest&southwest Ohio) has always been basically Sunday afternoon short programs 50 or 75 birders with maybe some 10 bird merchandise rounds instead of practice rounds. With that being said back when the Grand was still in Vandalia the ATA shoots went pretty good because many of these meat shooters would shoot enough ATA targets so they could go to the Grand and not have to shoot penalty class or yardage. Many of these shooters would drive to Vandalia on one of the preliminary days to shoot, get classified, and to get squadded for a couple of the championship days. Those years there were around 4,000 entries for the Grand handicap with close to half of the entries being drive in shooters.(with in 4 to 5 hours) Some would only shoot the Grand while others would stay over and shoot 2 or 3 days. Then the ATA left Vandalia and there don't seem to be the drive in shooters that show up in Sparta for the big days. Each day the Vandalia entries would get larger from day1 to the Grand handicap. Now the preliminary days seem to be about as large as the championship days. Now not many shooters from our area shoot the Grand and now they don't shoot the ATA targets to be qualified and the small clubs that still hold ATA shoots are really suffering.

Many years ago during the Vandalia years many of the motels and hotels would offer reduced rates for shooters and a lot of home owners would rent out rooms in their homes to shooters. I'm sure that this took some effort from the shoot management to arrange and over the years these deals disappeared and now the motels list the shoots as a special event and the shooters get gouged the only special deal that I know of now close to the Cardinal is the Heritage Motel. Now there seems to be a lot of expense money paid out for officials to attend the Satellite grands and the Grand and an excessive amount for the presidents high dollar gun. Also the camping rates seem to be pretty expensive.

At the State shoots and the Grand I enjoyed the 200 16's every bit as much as the 100 doubles and handicap events. Also shooting the 16's and handicap 25 per trap and the doubles should still be shot 30 20 30 20. Just my opinion.

Dave Berlet

 

Why shouldn’t they? You have a problem with Ohio shooting registered?

 

There are some shooters who want to shoot registered if for no other reason out of habit and because they have accumulated a number of targets over the years ... The majority of shooters today shoot an assortment of events at the clubs they shoot at or just for yucks (practice) with friends, maybe some games if there are some available in a given area ... You can bet the average shooter is shooting many more non registered targets that registered probably 5 or 6 to one or more ... The ATA has created a situation where a lot of shooters don't even bother anymore ... There are shoots that do draw bigger crowds and many times there are a certain number of targets needed to keep from having to shoot penalty class or yardage, so shooters pick and choose places along the way to get those targets, those have to be registered so its a gimme that shooters will shoot some registered targets in Ohio or where ever ... One year when I was shooting a lot I shot between 12 and 13,000 registered handicap targets ( no singles or doubles) , I shot approx. 37,500 shooting games, and for yucks (practice) with friends ... That would of put me at 3 to one and most shooters do not do that ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Most people would rather be associated with honorable, ethical organizations that respect their members and do what they can to make membership a pleasant and worthwhile experience. It isn't much fun when you have to hold your nose just to participate. It's kinda like the difference between being married to good woman or being married to a bad woman.

 

I am guessing from previous posts Truth is from Missouri. A good question for him would be why don’t they have more trapshooters?

 

I take it all back. Please ATA leaders. Please make the programs bigger. Not shorter.

The more ammo required the better. You guys handled the move to Sparta so well. Why should anyone like me give a rats ass?

 

With each new day, it's becoming more and more clear that nobody gives a rat's ass what the ATA does. The ATA and the EC have bigger problems than an ammo shortage. Dead man walkin'.

 

In Fl registered shooting is cheaper @ some clubs, than practice rates for non members

 

Here in Indiana there is large club that gets $20 per 100 member $28 per 100 non member. Its cheaper to shoot ATA. Most places i shoot ATA, Indiana Michigan Ohio only charge $21 -23 per hundred.

 

$16 per 100 is high in my area in NE Ohio. But I can walk to four clubs in a morning. More for registered.

 

The shooters / members will identify the problem and cure for it on an individual basis like they have for many years in the past ... The ATA quit attempting to find a cure for problems and have just winged it for the past 20 years or so, since the relocation went so well they hesitate to make an more moves that really matter (they should any way ) ... The line forms on the right for the new presidential gun ... WPT ... (YAC) ...