Prima Donnas Change The Rules At Eastern Zone

It was brought to my attention yesterday that a squad of top shooters at the Eastern Zone makes their own rules. It seems there was a backup on the chosen one's preferred bank. While the next squad in line prepared to walk to the line the next partial squad of prima donnas got on the line ahead of them declaring they were going to shoot first. The squad leader stated to the ladies on that squad "so what are you gonna do about it"? My understanding is this isn't the first time they pulled this off. My wife said if they would pulled that on her she'd have stood there until they moved. Those who know my wife realize tangling with her is not in their best interests. Suggestions?

 

Were any of these ATA delegates or HOF members? File a complant. If you shoot out of turn the score doesn't count.

 

Neither, but "shooting out of turn" is an interesting idea although an entire squad "shooting out of turn" could be a stretch. Of course, if they belong to the Lodge it'll be swept under the rug.

 

If you decide to file an official complaint make sure you print three copies. Staple one copy to the scorers chair where the incident occurred. Tape a second copy to your golf cart and read it to anyone that will listen. Post the third copy on the wall at eye level above the urinal in the men’s room. None of these things will get you a satisfactory outcome, but neither will mailing a copy to the ATA.

 

Put the shooters’ names here!

 

I would assume he will? There’s only so many prima Dona’s that shoot a short squad in PA. Is there any more to the story? What bank? Was the line supervisor called to resolve any of the issue or TD notified of complaint?

 

First of all I was not a member of the squad that had the issue so I have no reason to issue a complaint. Secondly, one of the members did break a 199 and did win an award but did not make any negative comments to the ladies on the offended squad. Thirdly, two members of that squad did not attend the shoot therefore they shot short. I'll let anyone interested to fill in the blanks. I do not know who the shooter is that challenged the ladies but I'd have little difficulty finding out who he is. My understanding is it was on bank 3-what else?

 

I am not much into riddles. I don't want to buy a vowel. Just the names please.

 

Let's put it this way. The shooter who broke the 199 won AAA. He was not the one who challenged the ladies but maybe should have said something. Any reasonably intelligent detective can fill in the blanks.

 

NO! Let's put it this way. It is not even important enough to you to mention the person(s) names. If you cant man-up and tell us whom the culprits are....why should we waste our time with this senile crap?

Guess who? I am afraid to print my own story!

 

Ollie you should man up here, I agree with PaBob on this but you should also find out if the line ref sent them ahead of a full squad to speed up the shoot. If that's the case no harm, but if not and I was the TD there would have been a problem.

 

Sorry Brad, the female squad before them was also short. Try getting a line referee to make a decision in record time-if you could find one. Besides, the females weren't chosen ones-just regular shooters.

 

I only know one but it's not my squad that had an issue. Just a case of hanky-panky that seems to happen way too often.

 

Maybe there were 2 slow squads ahead of this short squad. Maybe the line ref/official that told them to move over was named Casper. Maybe he saw what was going to happen due to having 2 slow squads back-to-back and told the short squad to go to a different trap in that bank and shoot 50 there, and 50 on the trap next to it. Maybe the slow squad was just finishing their first 25 when the squad that was moved by the ref finished their first 50 on the trap the ref sent them to. I wasn't there, that's why I said , maybe.

 

Maybe someone should ask Deadpair for his take on the situation. He had access to the scoresheets.

Maybe bank 3 got so far behind because the prima donnas kept asking for re-sets or speaker changes.

 

Not sure why I was brought into this, but I do have questions? You said it was the AAA Wnr, who was Brandon Deal, but I believe his squad was shooting on Bank 9? 2nd question, was this during the 1st or 2nd 100? 3rd Why was this brought to you and not the Tournament Director? That's where you should have directed them and not post here where nothing can be done about it? 4th question, who were all the Prima Donna's on Bank 3? I was there taking pictures during the 2nd 100 and didn't recognize anyone.

And yes I have the same access to the score sheets as everyone else...

 

I was told bank 3 by one of your best friends. Remember, all the information I got was 2nd hand. Know anyone by the name of Ashley Hunter? I'd suggest you ask her for an opinion and who does Deal usually shoot with and on what bank? Remember, it was not him who challenged the ladies.

 

Yes I know her and in regards to his squad, I believe he was the only one there from his "normal" squad. So my guess would be a simple misunderstanding about the circumstances and possibly even the wrong shooter ID. Either way it should have been brought to the Tournament Director 4 days ago.

 

Funny how that “second hand” stuff sometimes comes back to bite a person in the azz.

 

"We're shooting first-what're you gonna do about it" is enough for me to say it was improper. Maybe you should ask your friend and former employer for his take on the situation. Afterall, they did it to him once if I may quote. So, what would the TD do to rectify the situation other than shaking the miscreants hand?

 

Did a fair amount of shooting in PA, and just like the Grand, Squad Hustler always running across the banks keeping the shoot running smooth. Many times towards the end of an event it was not uncommon for the hustler to have you shoot 50 on a trap or move, particularly if a trap was broken and backed up. Great forum….” I heard from a friend of a friend”……some just like stirring the pot behind a keyboard.

Paul H
Imperial, PA

 

Totally different situation but thanks for the input. Nothing wrong with allowing a squad to shoot 50 on a trap to keep things moving. There's plenty wrong with jumping squads and telling the previous squad "what're you going to do about it"? I suppose if you were on squad 20 and waiting to shoot squad 30 went to the line and said screw you we're shooting first you'd turn tail and run?

 

This is the most important part of any of your posts.

"I was told bank 3 by one of your best friends. Remember, all the information I got was 2nd hand"

 

What if the shooters on squad 30 identified as squad members of 20? I’m in agreement that the original premise to this post, it was hog wash for those shooters to attempt to shoot ahead. Likely the AAA winner did not know or know his squad mates well, as DEDPAIR stated a few members of the normal squad were missing (likely most of them). The AAA winner that day is far from a prima donna. Has held high singles average in the state on multiple years doing so shooting at some difficult clubs and posting high scores year round regardless of weather. The guy is quiet, keeps to himself, reads a book between traps and minds his own business even shooting with people he frequently does.

 

Yup, the two missing members of that shoot were not in attendance. I can't recall when the last time was they shot any bank but #3. Maybe you can tell us? The AAA member had nothing to say as I previously stated.

 

From your earlier posts and dozens of others I’m sure you’ve been around the PSSA home grounds and east coast to know who and where they shoot.

 

Mountain out of a Mole Hill

 

Some people must like standing in 90 degree temps while another squad bends the rules. Others have no skin in the game and have no right to comment.

 

As I've stated many times the only fair shoot at pa is to draw for banks, or better yet walk the line like we did for years in the 70's and 80's. and most likely as they did before my time there. Modern ATA has nothing to do about compatition, it's basic semi organized practice.

Everyone that shot the CC when I was TD knew that the rules applied to everyone. In state and out of staters the same. To My friends and a shooter that I just met, you have to be fair. Apperance is everything. You have to make shooters feel that they are not getting homered if you want non residents, and it looks to me like residents of Pa, to shoot your shoots. DRAW FOR BANKS.

 

Was there an actual rule broken?
Or was it a he said she said rule
Did you actually observe it?
I’m a great believer in facts !
What were the actual facts ?
Or just hearsay?

 

Do you always jump in front of old ladies in the grocery line? That might be called common courtesy. It might be expected in a rude state in the country like NY but not in PA. Did I actually observe it-no, but I have no doubt when others brought it to my attention. I suppose you would need a sworn statement but you're not getting one.

 

The pssa needs younger people on the board that are regular shooters not in the goid of boys club. I have seen at pssa were a 3 man squad was moved in front of a 5 man squad to keep things moving but was told to do so by TD or line personal

 

Wow…. So much wrong with those accusations that I don’t know where to begin. How about we FACTS?! So, I am one of the squad members that shot all weekend with Brandon Deal. I shoot with him on that squad in Pa and have been for years. First, we were on bank 2 and not bank 3. It was event 5(handicap) and not the 200 16s as suggested by the very uninformed dawg(Andy). We were shooting a 3 person squad that event. We were told to shoot 50 on trap 2D by the squad hustler (Casper). This was after we finished on 2B and we’re waiting for the squad in 2C to finish. They had just finished their first post on that trap. So…. We went to D and shot our 50. After shooting the first 25 on D … we were about to go out and shoot our last 25 when we were approached by who I believe was the squad leader…. He proceeded to tell us how terrible we were for “skipping” over them and just doing what we wanted. We offered to call Casper over so he could verify that he was the one that had us shoot fifty on 2D. That gentleman said he didn’t want to do that… so we proceeded to shoot out last 25 and that was the end of it…. Or so I thought. I assure you that there were no statements made to anyone about us shooting ahead and they couldn’t do anything about it. That’s an outright lie. After the event Brandon Deal was called to classification and asked about the incident… so it was reported. The true events we’re investigated my shoot management and we were told that we had done nothing wrong…. End of story. Just a little side note…. That same squad(at least some of the same member) was complaining also had a squad jump ahead of them on event 4(16s) earlier in the day …. That move was approved by the TD(Steve Ross).So … seems that they slowed the line down for the first 2 events of the day and shoot management’s decision was to bypass them on both occasions…. So what the common denominator? Seems to me it was the squad that was complaining. Before you go shooting your mouth off without the facts you should probably do your due diligence to make sure what you are saying is true. As far as your wife intimidated you Andy… I can see that…. My 6 year old would probably scare you. You can PM me any time you want and I will give you my campsite number at the grounds and you can can come and discuss this with me personally….. you can even bring your muscle(wife) with you if you’d like…. Promise I’ll try not to be too scared.

 

Thanks for acknowledging there actually was a problem. So jumping squads is SOP but I'm sure other squads not composed of some women might have a different opinion-especially a former bicycle racer from Australia whose wife was affected. So, you got your way and all is fine? I suppose shoot management admonished the women for being too slow to the line too? Like I said my information was 2nd hand but neither did I know the squads' actions were reported to shoot management and dismissed. Kinda reminds me of a shootoff last year where a contestant shooting leadoff called for a free pair on each station and shoot management dismissed that violation too. Congratulations on moving to bank 2, it must be much more challenging than bank 3. Maybe without bank selection you might see bank 5-7 or 11 where there are fewer if any backups.

 

Dawg. Did you ever hear that song, "Oops, did it again" ?

Don't you ever get tired of stepping in it? Twice you said your info was "second hand". About time you learned that it's better to just keep quiet unless it's "firsthand".

"Thanks for acknowledging there actually was a problem." From the terrific post by a new member, we all can see that there was no problem.
The only problem I see is YOUR POSTING SOMETHING YOU KNEW NOTHING ABOUT.

You should have read my second post on this thread. It might have given you a clue.

"Funny how that “second hand” stuff sometimes comes back to bite a person in the azz."

Flyersarebest
Moderator.

 

THANK YOU, and welcome to the site. Your post has to be one of the best we have ever had here. Sorry it had to be about something that should have never been posted in the first place.

Flyersarebest
Moderator

 

Some people with no skin in the game should keep their comments to themselves.

 

Dawg…. If you check your facts …. Again. We shot the whole Pa Grand on banks 9,10 and 11. All except the doubles that were only available on the top line. So…. Now what? I’m still waiting to hear from you about coming to discuss this with me man to man. Probably never get that message though as you are a coward. I will be there for the Westy on Wednesday evening and shorting all the events. Feel free to come and talk to me at your leisure. BTW we did no pre squad for this shoot and will draw squads when we get there. Well… now what do you have to say?

 

Have fun at the Hogan, we'll be at Cardinal Center. Anyway, if you always shot with the same two missing members of your squad which I'm gonna assume were vendors according to my source (but I may be wrong) I've never seen them shoot any bank but 3. Again, I must fill in the blanks here from another former vendor who stated they did it to him. I also never saw your hotshot squadmate shoot any bank but 3 but he's not mine to watch. So, just admitting that you jumped squads because you didn't want to wait and there was an issue reported to shoot management is enough for me.

 

Huh? How the hell did you get we just jumped squads because we didn’t want to wait from what was just told to you. We did what shoot management told us to do. Again, you said you never saw my squad mate shoot anywhere but bank 3….. you r wrong again. Brandon Deal could should on any bank and still win. You can hide at the cardinal for the Westy but you’ll be back and I’m going to look you up when u r there. Then we can go in and have a discussion with shoot management and you can explain to them your concerns and how you are falsely accusing people of something. You are well known as a pot stirrer and you never seem to disappoint in that regards. The only reason I joined this forum was to defend myself and my squad mates from an idiot like you that has no issue spewing misinformation and outright lies. Invigoration is still open…. Please come see me… I think I would thoroughly enjoy it.

 

I have skin in THIS game as a Moderator. And if you keep up the unfounded accusations against people without knowing the facts you will lose the ability to post anything.

Fair warning...


Flyersarebest
MODERATOR

 

Thank you flyers

 

"The only reason I joined this forum was to defend myself and my squad mates from an idiot like you that has no issue spewing misinformation and outright lies."

Damn, after reading this I don't know if now maybe, THIS is the best post.

Flyersarebest
Moderator

 

You are welcome. It was the truth.

 

Huh? Excuse me but what the hell r u talking about?

 

Bypassing a security system? I applied to join this site last night. I wasn’t able to reply to any forums u til I got the ok from you all this morning. At that time I wrote my first response to Andy. Have no idea what u r talking about? Please fill me in as to what I am doing/did that was improper

 

I didn’t respond last night because I was sleeping. I get up at 0300 for work. It really did happen to me… I went to respond to the forum and there was a note at the bottom saying I did not have the privileges to do that . I believe that was the wording? Trying to get around a security check? Are u kidding me? I turn off my phone and turn it back on if I have a problem…. That’s about as much as I know about technology. You have the wrong guy if you think I was trying to somehow get around a security provision. Sorry, but another unfounded accusation. You sir are the one that owes an apology.

 

Just checked it. I was sent one email from Joe at 8:10 pm last evening. That is the ONLY email I received. So u r wrong. I didn’t imply anything when I told you what message I was getting. I was telling you what it said at the bottom of the forum I was trying to respond to. Ty

 

Is it just me or is Fedderman the smart one from PA?

 

I don't think we know whether Promo is from PA and I am sure you were not disparaging Flyer.

But, after this maybe I should look for a new place.

 

WOW....makes me wonder what the posts are gonna be like this winter when everyone is crabby....


Paul

 

What does that mean?

 

This thread needs to end.

 

What moderator are you? How do you get to decide? Looks like a good read to me.

 

Kinda looks like a run away train. You know you should look away from the wreckage but somehow you just can’t stop yourself.

 

PaBob I think that you can get nice river front property cheap not that far from Pa in Ohio. East Palestine isn't that far from Pa so you won't have to move that far to be in Ohio. Our OSTA is as messsed up as your Pa association but we for the most part all can formulate a three word sentence, maybe our spelling isn't up to snuff all the time but we can talk.

 

I am the one that is going to apologize.

I'm sorry I didn't delete the first post on this thread.

It's not the first time one of those "A guy told me" threads has been started. I know better.

Flyersarebest
Moderator

 

It’s not just the OSTA that’s mismanaged nor the PSSA, as a whole the entire country’s state level organizations are messed up. And EP was a nice quiet country town until February of this year, NS has spent $800 million on clean up efforts (remediation, local payouts, class actions, etcetera). Huge part of the cleanup efforts and likely most expensive is storm water treatment and waste disposal in the long run.

 

This post is why no one wants to post here!! It starts with a 2nd hand account of an event and implying a certain squad of being Prima Donna’s. Then misses entirely that the one’s being accused of being that weren’t even shooting the event. I say this because the one being accused wasn’t even known to Dawg that he needed to reference one of the most respected shooters in PA to say what squad it was. Then a member of the squad posts the actual account of the events and then gets blasted by the Admin for lying on his request to join the forum??? Then the post digresses from the original intent, into a jabbering of which admin is the nicer one??? Dawg I hope you all do well at the CC and fully demand a follow up post to that trip about why the CC doesn’t do a blind draw for banks since without the curtain, certain banks will be the favorites for all the Prima Donna’s!!! And Dawg, for future reference, please never drag me into something like this ever again as this has been a complete waste of my time and why I hadn’t posted here for almost a year!!!

Jeff

 

Jeff, welcome as always to a bit of controversy. My only reference to the fine shooter and outstanding individual was he had nothing to do or say about the incident but was called into the office to explain his version of the event-right? I'll be visiting your former employer this AM to re-hash the events as he saw it. Jeff, if you ever shot CC you'd already know there's really no bad banks but a few that are not as nice. I don't regard a few trees on a bank as a severe obstacle so no need to blind draw banks. I shot all the banks at the SD in FL and even though some might be a bit different they still draw banks. It sure seems to make a shoot run smoother. If banks 2 and 3 at PA always seem to be backed up it might be because those are the preferred banks everyone is trying to shoot on and it slows down squadding and extends shooting times.

 

Well, well, well, the plot sure did thicken. After a thorough investigation today I was informed my initial comments were even more than 100% correct. First of all, the squad did jump ahead of the scheduled squad. The earlier squad was forced to sit on the bench and watch while the offending squad shot twice (50) targets on their trap. Understandably, it was a very hot day and I'm sure they used their influence to get done sooner. I was also told they did the same thing to a squad last year but they overlooked but didn't forget it.

Secondly, this squad does shoot on banks 9-10 and 11 but for Doubles only. Everyone knows the lower banks at PA have better visibility late in the day so I sure can't blame them. That leaves them on bank 3 for every other event. Anyone care to dispute that?

Thirdly, if anyone from that squad would care to call Aussie Alan's wife (who was affected) a liar I'm sure he'll be at the Hogan and he'd welcome a visit.

Now it's time to move on and find out how a certain squad shoots 50 targets on bank 7A and 50 targets on 7B to avoid shooting the more difficult targets on 7C and 7D. Adios!

 

“Just when I thought I was out…..they pull me back in!”

 

Don Hook line and sinker. On another note Brandon grew up in pa, so he comes by the way he is honestly I guess. ollie if there is a real fight (not just wrods) please have someone post it to tick tock. I haven't seen a good ATA fight sinse Fla in the 70's. Back then every Fla meeting seemed to end with a punch or two, keep trap shooting great, just like the old days.

 

Brad, I had some time to think about Dawg’s problem and I am convinced I have a solution. Do what I did: stop shooting ATA trap and start shooting sporting clays. In sporting clays there are usually 15 or 16 shooting stations and every shooter has to shoot them all. Can’t get more fair than that. If a squad is dumb enough to jump on a station in front of you just smile and thank them for giving you extra looks at the target presentation. While you wait for that rude squad to finish, sit in your overpowered UTV drinking ice cold lemonade from the cooler you can easily bring with you to every station in your UTV. And for those that say they can’t stand shooting sporting clays because of the azzhats that take up all the good parking spots with their $80,000 sports cars, just run ‘em over with your $85,000 diesel pickup. Problem solved! Now where’s the bar? All this thinking has made me thirsty again!

 

Flyer's the greatest. He still has us waiting for another one-day half price Noble Sport primer sale at Kentucky Gun Club-delivered. Without him we would never know so our love continues to run deep.

 

Well said. Maybe Sporting Clays shooters are infiltrating Trapshooting where jumping stations happens regularly and only dirty looks are the norm. Somehow, I don't think it should be acceptable but as in all games some will always attempt to bend the rules.

 

You must have heard that "second hand" again. It wasn't a half-price sale, and I wasn't the one that posted about the sale. I did call and talk to the gentleman the next day, after you implied the poster was a liar and tried to belittle him, and the salesman said he would honor the sale price. I told him you said you would take 500.000. I let you know if you called, he would do it.

Then that selective amnesia you have kicked in again. Maybe you really couldn't afford them? Or was that just some more "blustering" on your part?

My father-in-law suffered from dementia before he passed away. I'm seeing the same symptoms with some of your posts.

Flyersarebest
Moderator

 

As you can see "dawg", I deleted your disjointed and senseless reply to my above post. And I will continue to do so until your posts make at least a little sense.

Flyersarebest
Moderator

 

Remember the old Dragnet TV series-"Just the facts Sir, just the facts.

 

I let that post stay because you at least got one thing correct. The name of the show.

But really, did you hear that "second hand" too?

The iconic phrase Sgt. Joe Friday (Jack Webb) used in the TV series, and the name of his authorized biography is,

"Just the facts, MA'AM

 

All you have is hearsay. Just like when Dave Shaeffer was thrown out by PA.

 

You mean, like yourself? You have no skin in the game, and have no right to comment. I mean, everything is second hand, right? You have stated you didn't do anything about it, because you weren't affected. Take your own advice.

 

Like yourself?

 

No bad banks at the cardinal? What dream land do you live in?

 

Interesting discussion and has never made the point clearer; "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the American Trap Shooters Kitchen".

WL

 

Name the bad banks at Cardinal! I'll wait.

Dave did quite well at Cardinal Center as always. I'd say he can outshoot you at either place anytime.

 

Yup, every business I know sells products at a loss and makes it up in volume. Those of us in the business know the wholesale price of a product while others pretend but know nothing.

 

At least I still shoot Trap unlike others. 100 targets this AM and yesterday PM but like many others realize ATA trap has become an expensive farce. I paid $24/100 targets instead of $45 so who's the dummy?

 

I know he can, that wasn't the point of my comment. He can outshoot most anyone, anywhere anytime. I'm far better friends with him, than you will ever be, so your point is moot.

Banks 5 and 6 at the cardinal are garbage, comparatively to any other bank there. Targets don't blink on any other banks. They do there.

 

I do as well. Again, what is your point?

 

Since you decided to copy my post, I’ll reply.

Kentucky Guns is a business. You are a small time hustler that can only dream of being as big as they are.
Do us and yourself a favor and check with your doctor about changing your meds. You’re starting to sound like Biden.

 

"No skin in the game" I must be nuts but it looks like I'm taking over a former ATA associated gun club in the near future. This would be my last hurrah. and final rodeo at 75 yo.Then again-maybe not.

 

Maybe you should look up Shydas Outdoor Center in Lebanon PA. Since I've maintained a very close association with that outfit for well over 30 years and remain one of their few dealers I might just know a bit about pricing. At the PA State Shoot 700 cases of shotgun shells, one skid of Remington STS shot, 20 sleeves of Winchester 209 primers and closing out 20 sleeves of 10,000 Noble Sport primers at $500/each might mean a little. Oops, I forgot those 28 guns sold too. Well, even large retail operations like them make pricing errors since they mistakenly charged me $195 for 3 MEC washers # 304W yesterday. Now, whose meds need changing?

 

Personally, I'd rather shoot banks 4 and 5 than banks 1-2-3. That large white warehouse that suddenly appeared in the background needs to be painted tree green. See, I know since I was there.

 

You mean that same Dave Shaeffer who I met a few years ago and asked me how my #1 son was doing? He remembers shooting off against him many times when both were top junior and sub-junior shooters back in the early 90's? Yup, and I was there to console him last week at CC when he missed the last target for a 100 in Singles. I reminded him I was there when the late Frank Little did the same thing at our club and I did it 3 times in one year. It happens! FYI, he finished with a 199.

 

I knew 4 minutes after it happened, as he texts me daily. Not sure your point, again.

 

You were already behind me 4 minutes since he was on the squad before my son.