POLL Buck Illinois- Forced donation to HOF and Illinois ‘Bradford. POLL

There will be a dollar added to each entry to pay for the HOF building which is owned by the State of Illinois.

I report. You decide.
Merlo out

 

Wow !

Just saw that EVERY event will have a Trapshooting Hall of Fame Relief Fund charge of $1.00.

It's in the 2019 Grand American Handicap program.

The "Donations" to pay for the STATE'S building must be pretty low.

Makes one wonder IF they will carry these charges over to the Satellite Grands in the future ?

Wonder how much is still owed on the loan ?

Now that they want the shooters to help pay for the loan, I wonder if information will become available ?

 

I wonder why the EC and the BOD do not donate their compensation refunds to the HOF. The Pres could lower the debt by $40,000,00 if he did not take the gun and the $20,000,00 spend as you please money. Let the ass holes that stiffed the members be liable for paying off the over priced horse barn that they built. Roger C.

 

Old news Blackbird but thanks

 

Old....yes. Sometimes I don't get it until a few report it to me. How people feel about it may be new. That decade thing is around the corner.

I report. You decide.
Merlo out

 

How far around the corner? Days, weeks or months.

 

Answer: should have been last week but this extra time means a BIGGER announcement. (clue)

I report. You decide.
Merlo out

 

The last time there was a additional fee it was supposed to be for the purchase of New Home Grounds for the relocation of the ATA, the collected fees got spent on new Pat Traps without any notice to the members who had paid in a lot of money over the few years it was collected ... I would not pay a dollar an event towards the HOF because its a State owned building so therefore the State should pay for it, it is grossly over priced, and in reality serves no purpose ... The ATA is a run away train and without people ending their ability to keep it up, it will continue ... Let Lynn (the Talking Head ) Gipson make a sizable donations and get the rest from the Martins that will eliminate the problem for once and for all .... Again, its not the money, its what it is being used for that is not right .... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

wpt, I agree with most of what you said in post #8, except I would make the following change:

Let Lynn (the Talking Head ) Gipson make a sizable donations and get the rest from the current and past presidents and EC members who moved the Grand and the Hall of Fame to Sparta.

 

Maybe we should ask them to return any renumeration received, for making some of the decisions that have been made. If any were received. Roger C.

 

The decision to fund the $2 million dollar Trapshooting HOF & Museum to be to be constructed on State lands and to be owned by Illinois, not the THOF, rests solely with the THOF Trustees.

It was they who were confident they could fully fund the construction & operating costs. They were wrong about that. They were also wrong, not to inform potential donors that the building would be owned by the State of Illinois.

Some think it was a wise decision. Others think it was not.

 

And remember Jack at the cc offered free land and right of way. $100,000 building.

Problem was Gipson did not find it.

 

WHO WERE THE TRUSTEES AT THE TIME? HB, CAN YOU GIVE ME THEIR NAMES? ROGER C

 

I know that Lynn Parsons who was a trustee at the time fought like hell for the THOF to be built at the CC with the blessings of Jack Fishburn.

Poor guy got nowhere after the fine presentation by Adan Kaufman and Mr. Fishburn.

Bradford told Mr. Fishburn after the meeting, Thanks BUT NO THANKS.

IF my memory serves me right, it was a 5 acre parcel offered (Deeded) for FREE from Mr. Fishburn to the THOF near the entrance to the facility.

Bradford and the rest of the trustees thought it better to let the State of Illinois OWN everything, with the donators footing the whole bill.

I'll keep it clean and not tell you what I thought of that mess.

I believe HB can add, or correct me if my memory is wrong or I forgot something.

 

Will these forced "donations" by the shooters be tax deductible?

That would be a HUGE plus for Gipson and Bradford to present to the shooters...LOL

Now onto another question.

Anyone know for sure IF the contents are insured at the THOF museum. (Renters Insurance ?)

For the longest time they were not insured in Vandalia, and finally someone who cared did something about it when HE discovered this.

Been some pretty strong storms out around Sparta lately, and I would hope they don't hit that barn.

 

History Seeker,
That is probably on the need to know list with many others delectable goodies ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I just received this that came from the program.

Yep, you can take the deduction BUT they FORGOT to mention you are paying down the debt that is owed for the STATE owned building

 

They should get back the money from the relocation fees and use them … That was thanks to some guy in the Minnesota hof and who knows everything about everything , initials NW … WPT … (YAC) …

 

And we as members are supposed to trust these people to over see our organization. How can so much ignorant actions build trust. There seems to be underling motives being implemented in many of these decisions. Roger C.

 

NW? N1H1(swine flu)? Mr. "I know everything because I shoot REAL Trap"? That guy?

Dysinger was right!

 

I was told by someone who would know that the contents and artifacts contained in the THOF are being used as collateral against the loan and that the bank requires insurance for the assets. It was explained that this was similar to how your mortgage company requires homeowners insurance on your house until it is paid off.

 

"Museum showcases and preserves the history of our great sport. It is the ONLY facility dedicated to this mission"

"This great facility was constructed ENTIRELY with PRIVATE FUNDING."

Does ANYONE ever lose their cash cow status for this type of propaganda garbage, and creating "debt" that others are FORCED to pay ??????

 

No one can do this many stupid things with out an ulterior motive. When are the members going to wake up?
It appears some of the artifacts in the HOF building are on the auction block, that is going to be held at the Grand this year. If people have anything on loan they should get it back before it comes up missing. Roger C.

 

"No one can do this many stupid things without an ulterior motive."

Sure they can. When people start to believe their own bulls%^# they have a tendency to do or say whatever they want thinking they know better than anyone else.

 

Thank You JohnWick, this is an interesting piece of information.

I also was advised at one time that THOF "Could" sell off any part of the collection if it was deemed necessary. (Please Correct me if I am mistaken with this info)

To me this stinks, but who am I ?

HB, can you chime in with anything about this ?

 

$40.00/ for 100 targets= $120.00/ day for targets --got be chasing all American points to pay that --

 

I don't know if JohnWick's information is accurate or not. I have my doubts that the contents of the museum would be used as collateral in securing a loan.

I would consider it to be a failure in the fiduciary responsibility of any Trustee who voted in favor of such action. After all, the THOF has been entrusted to take care and safeguard every donated item and placing the collection in potential jeopardy of loss due to the inability of repayment of a loan cannot be considered as safeguarding.

If it turns out that JohnWick's information is correct, I would suggest potential donors consider placing their item on loan, whereby remaining the legal owner. Loaned items cannot legally be used as collateral.

Regarding the question of selling "off any part of the collection if it was deemed necessary":

Anyone wishing to donate artifacts to an institution should ask about the different methods of making a donation. The item is owned by you the donor, so it is you who has the control over what happens to your gift. You have every right to place stipulations on your gift to insure that it is always on display, cannot be sold or given away, or that it is returned to you if it is no longer wanted.

Or, you can make your donation without stipulations. These donated items grant full authority to the institution to determine its fate. These items can be sold or given away. All museums do this.

Some donors want their items displayed for others to enjoy but wish to remain in control. So, they loan items to the museum, retaining the ability to retrieve them in the future if they wish. A museum will decide if they will accept your donation with terms or reject them.

There has been several folks who loaned items to the Trapshooting Hall of Fame and had them returned when requested.

If you care about the future of your donation, retain control of it.

HB

 

Thanks HB for the clarification, this is valuable info for a lot of us.

That is why I send my donated items to the OHIO State THOF. They do a great job with the items.

 

HB, Would this then allow the Trustees to use such items for collateral such as JohnWick has stated ?

Probably a sticky wicket, but nothing would be a surprise any more.

 

As a former caretaker of the THOF, can you tell us what other assists the THOF has that they could use to secure a $1mm+ loan? Putting it another way....if you were a bank would you loan an organization that didn’t have defined cash flow that much money without securing some sort of collateral?

 

THE BUILDING SHOULD BE THE COLLATERAL NOT THE CONTENTS. The a$$ holes that perpetrated this mess should be held liable for the unpaid balance not the people than donated items to the HOF. How in the hell did the ATA organization get saddled with these sub standard leaders? Roger C.

 

ONE Million dollars of the money came from none other than the Bill Martin Family ...Mr Martin suggested a $20.00 donations from each member (like that was going to happen) a few years ago ... The ED, EC and many on the BOD have played so many games no body knows what or who to believe anymore ... I do talk to many shooter and used to be ATA shooters,so far not one would donate a nickle to keep the place going and that includes the HOF also ... The ATA had several ways presented to them on ways to go and own the property which may of had people a little more likely to donate, but they made their choice and it is, was Sparta ... The State of Illinois is in deep shit financially, many programs are being listed on the delete list including some school programs (YES, School Programs ) so I don't have a crystal ball but my guess places like the WSRC may not be far behind ... Pritzger is a total prick, hates guns and gun owners so get in, sit down, shut up and hold on ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

JohnWick,

I was not aware the THOF secured a $1mm+ loan.

A notice made in September 2015 by the THOF said they are approximately $380,000 short of the $2.125 million total cost.

I was aware of the $1 million dollar donation by the Martin's, individual pledge donations, the ATA's donation of $250,000 and another short-term loan from a private individual.

According to financial reports, loans in the amounts of $533,000 and a $216,500 ($749,500 total) were secured from Elkhorn Valley Bank at a fixed interest rate of 4.25%. The purpose was an advance on accounts receivable building pledges for construction of the museum. Both notes were to be repaid in the early months of 2016. And the private $250,000 was reported as repaid on the THOF financial audit.

The official statement said they did have a construction note that was secured by the THOF portfolio.

The latest financials I have seen FYE-2017 reported the THOF had just approximately $2 million in unrestricted operating funds. Apparently the $749,500 was not repaid by the original date and extensions were given until 2021 at the same interest rate. This loan was reportedly collateralized by the THOF's brokerage account.

If this old information is not correct, I would appreciate updated documentation. I am especially interested in verification showing the THOF has an outstanding loan and the museum artifacts were used as collateral.

Thanks,

HB

 

If those stupid a$$ holes used the inventory they are dumber than I first thought them to be. If the bank forecloses and takes the property who do they think is going to bid on it? The members that they sexed every chance they got. Who else would have an interest in it? Maybe the families that donated it to them?
There has got to be a name on the loan, someone signed for it. Maybe he should be held responsible for the payment of the loan. Roger C.

 

How can you legally force someone to donate to a 501c3. I guess it would be an Illinois, Democrat, Union deal. But how can you put that stipulation on the WORLD Championships (HA HA) Can foreigners donate to US 501c3's? Can they make minors donate to a 501c3. A donation is free will and not a stipulation or a demand.

Bradford is the one who was always shooting off his mouth that he could walk out the door and raise a couple of million bucks anytime he wanted to so why hasen't he? Why does the HOF owe money on the Illinois owned building?

Brad

 

Gee, Unrestricted funds "Could" then pay off the loan ????

So why hit the shooters up for funds ?

Just wondering !

As 635 G has eluded to, they keep this up and they will chase the common shooter away from the game.

Only the Points Chasers will be shooting.

 

I'm not sure assessing members for this debt is even legal because technically its no part of the association, it is owned by the State of Illinois ... I think the ATA best check into it and see if they can legally do this or are they setting them self up for repercussions ... I didn't really think the one for the re location fees was legal either but it was for the good of the Association, this one is for the good of the State of Illinois ( we are not members of the State of Illinois ) ... I found a Ball vice at a garage sale, maybe I will send that to them so they can put that on display also ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT, These guys do not care what is legal or not. We would not be in this mess if they did. They have broken just about every rule or law that governs a 501 3C corp. with no problems.
They are not going to get any money from me, as I will not be there. I have attended 40 Grand American shoots, in my life time, but no more.
Men of honor built our organization, men of no honor ruined it. Roger C.

 

"I found a Ball vice at a garage sale, maybe I will send that to them so they can put that on display also ."

They should have built the building in the shape of a ball vice.

 

So, the information I got is :
Any 501 3C Corp cannot legally assess additional fees in such a manner to satisfy a debt that is not accumulated by that same Corp, though people can legally give donations if they want to ... The ATA had best consult its attorney to make sure they can collect said fee's legally ... This is from a former IRS Agent who is retired and lives a few houses down from where I live ... The IRS does not take this type thing lightly ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

This could be the thing that gets the SWAMP cleaned for once and for all ...

 

I didn't know it either until I was reading the Grand program yesterday.

 

If it is good for Sparta it is good for the ATA.

 

The best thing that ever happened to Sparta, was Wal Mart opening there (they draw a crowd ) … WPT … (YAC) …

 

"If it is good for Sparta it is good for the ATA."

No doubt about that ..... The great thing about the Cardinal Center is ..... they do "GOOD" for the shooters, their customers ..... NOT "good" ONLY directed for benefit of the State of Ohio, the City of Columbus, or the morally bankrupt ATA .....

 

Sid, Enjoy Sparta as best you can. It is on life support and will not be so great in the future. Sad but true. Roger C.

 

THAT, is some old smelly bait. Not as bad as the stinking numbers the place draws but still pretty ripe.

Make sure you shoot all the events sid, the HOF desperately needs the extra fee. Hopefully your entry in the GAH event will put the number at one more than last year. Half of what it used to be but what the heck, it's sparta.

At that rate they will reach the same number they used to get in, about 2000 YEARS.

 

Well, with 24 events, Mr. Martin's suggestion just may have been what Mr. Bradford needed to convince the ATA to get the "shooters" to make their "Donations".

They are even upping the ante to $24.00.

Gee, how many shooters has Gipson told us in the past ? 60,000 ? 45, 000 ? 15,000 ???

Good God, if they had all 2,000 shooters (OR whatever figure Gipson comes up with this year) who take motor home spaces shoot all the events, that will only be $48,000.00

I Still think they better charge this fee on all Satellite Grands until the loan is paid for.

C'mon guys a gals, support the State of Illinois, and help THEM pay for THEIR building, they are broke !

 

"that will only be $48,000.00" .....

Makes a person wonder if it is more about a test, then about the total dollars this time .....

If the over priced bait shack stays climate controlled 24/7/365, then someone is paying for that ..... And insurance, maintenance, loan, and so on money doesn't grow on trees ......

So ..... the idea of "forced donations" may NOT be a one time thing ..... Testing the waters to see the reaction may be the goal ..... not so much about a first time total .....

 

This donation should be on all championship entries where points are awarded.

 

The ATA will rip off the shooters every chance they get until the shooters smarten up and walk away, go shoot practice and have as much fun while its cheaper … The "Cash Cow" that has been created to feed the ED, EC and many on the BOD should be eliminated totally by any means possible … They come up with things to donate to and for then use the money any way they want to, that's total Bull shit EX: relocation fee a few years ago ) … The EC, ED, and many on the BOD are parasites and out to fortify a means for them to get to the shoots with all expenses paid for by the Membership … God works in Mysterious ways and pay backs are more times than not a Bitch, so they best be ready …. WPT …. (YAC) …

 

The ata management made the decision to charge the fee at only the US Open and the "grand". That's where the state owned building is so it seems appropriate.

Sounds like you are second guessing the ata. Don't you agree with their decision?

You do realize that anyone that questions anything the ata does is a basher and hater don't you?

And BTW, it's NOT a donation. That would be voluntary. It is an extra FEE that you must pay if you want to shoot.

If you feel they need more money from other shoots why don't you just tell them you want to pay $2.00 per event when you go to the "grand"?