ATA response to Mr. Jack Fishburn 2019 Cardinal Center

A written proposal for hosting the Grand American was given to President Dean which is
on file at the ATA Headquarters. The Cardinal Center representation concluded their remarks
by stating that their facility could offer longevity and security to the ATA for the Grand
American Tournament.
President Dean thanked Mr. Fishburn and the representatives from the Cardinal Center
for their presentation, and he told them that their proposal would be discussed at the
December meeting of the Executive Committee.

 

Mr. Fishburn, If you do this make sure you do it on your own terms. Do not give the EC any control over your facility. Remember when dealing with them they are not trust worthy. Roger C.

 

This must be one of the only on a need to now basis the ATA, EC, BOD, and ED thrive on ... They like to keep the membership in the dark like they are a bunch of Mushrooms, then wonder why no body respects them or wants anything to do with them ... If they bought me tickets,sent a Limo, paid for all expenses, and fed me I would not go, wait if they did that I would be on the EC or one of the Good Ol' Boys ...The ATA is a time bomb and will be their own end unless they get on board with a place that knows what to do and when to do it ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I think we're gonna need a bigger boat......

 

"I think we're gonna need a bigger boat...…"

Jack "Noah" Fishburn could probably accommodate any requirements needed but I wouldn't spend too much time thinking about the what if's.

The Pipe Dreamer and his pals would NEVER admit they screwed the pooch, which they know they did, and move that little shoot away from that outpost.

I hope they never move it. I hope they have to keep adding fees and "donations" to the tune of millions of dollars. They wanted it there, now they have to live with it. You can't say they asked for it because when they DID ask the answer was not what they wanted to hear.

I hope the numbers keep going down. You hear that sidney? I hope some day you and the three or four other cheerleading pom pom girls that live there are the only ones that show up.

Think of it. You and the local neighbors are the only five that show up. The next year you get five of their friends and you can come on, we will still be here, and shout how the 'grand' was up 100%.

Better than that 17% prediction bet you backed out on huh?

 

curious to know when us poor huddled masses will be privileged to know the outcome of this meeting.

 

Lets's get some real accurate perspective.

 

Are you guys seriously encouraging dropping bomb's on the WSRC????? Easy there Gaddafi....it's just trap. Ya know, something fun to do when you don't have to work or visit the in laws......

 

Not "you guys", just me. Like I said, the Air National Guard out of Springfield could make better use of it.

BTW, Muammar al-Gaddafi has been dead since 2011. The 'grand' died five years before he did.

As for the "it's just trap"?

NOW it is. Before 2006 the in-laws didn't matter one bit and work was what I had to do to be able to shoot the thousands of targets a year to get ready for the Grand in Vandalia. Me and about 2000 other shooters that don't bother attending that shoot any longer.

 

Ironically the Cardinal Center would most likely draw a bigger crown even taking into consideration the difference in surface acres ...The facility in Sparta (WSRC) has never been utilized to the fullest extent because there has never and probably will never be the need ... The complete trap line has never had to be used since day one ... The ATA wanted to build a monument to them self so they could brag about having the world longest trap line, if they wanted to say it correctly and honestly they would of said the longest trap line that will never be utilized due to lacking attendance ... I talk to many people who used to look forward to attending the grand on an annual basis, the majority of them have quit attending all together after going once or maybe twice though many have quit due to aging and not wanting to do all of the extra driving ... The concept of building a facility that has all the bells and whistles in the middle of no place obviously was a less than good idea, the attendance proves it ... Sparta is not and will never be the answer to the betterment of trapshooting ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

And those 2000 shooters just up and quit because their butts got hurt the grand moved to Illinois? Some of them, absolutely. But I'm thinking things like money, having children and grandchildren, health, and obviously death are the biggest contributors to declining numbers, not just at the grand but everywhere.

 

I agree with you to a point, problem is many of those that used to attend the grand on a regular basis have moved on to other clay target sports ( Sporting Clays/Bunker ) or just go to the club and shoot for yucks rather that pay a premium to go out of their way to and end up in the middle of no place ... Before the relocation a lot of shooters as well as many vendors expressed a lack of desire to attend the grand at what was then a tentative location in Illinois.based on the lack of amenities and accommodations in the immediate or general area ... There was talk of how it will be built up 10 years from now (14 years ago) etc, virtually nothing has changed with the exception of a Holiday Inn being built there which does very few any good ... If by chance this same facility would of been built any place but where it was the Real Legacy/history of the grand could of been maintained and the place would have 1 1/2 times or double the attendance it does have ... You can come up with all of the excuses you want, facts is facts and the WSRC is not and never will be the answer ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I personally would hate to see the ATA get its hooks in to the C.C. They have ruined the ATA why give them a shot at the most successful shooting center in the U.S.A. They have no management skills other than making blunders and using poor judgement. They let EC members loot the organization on real estate deals, they do not let members give any guidance to them. To try and list all of their short comings would take to much time. They just do not have what it takes to run an organization like the ATA. Sorry but true, to much self serving on their part. Roger C.

 

Right, I should take this guys advise. Heck, you should have recommended him as a replacement to run that place. He already has a number.

 

The boys at the CC have moved on to newer and bigger things.

 

Yes because people just started to have kids. They didn't do that before the move to an anti gun state 12 hours from the blue collar trapshooting mecca.

And never mind that the ATA members filled out polling sheets that told them that.

Cripes......just send the clowns in. How do you follow up on a post like that???!!!

 

That is excellent news! Real News with Real Substance! Thank you!

Brad, when will CC begin to share their future plans and dreams with the thousands and thousands of loyal fans and supporters who believe so strongly in everything Mr. Fishburn does?

 

I sincerely hope what Brad is saying is true because the Cardinal Center does not need any additional shoots added to their schedule unless they opt for them at their own discretion ... The ATA will be looking for a place to go long before Cardinal Center runs out of targets, being as they are dealing with the Devil in dealing with the State of Illinois ... They are renters and at the mercy of the State of Illinois be that as it may, no matter who fronts the money to support their existence ... If they get out of line with a Director of IDNR that person or a Host of others can switch them off like a $2.00 light bulb and justify it because the place does not make the State any money ... Sooner or later some body is going to wake up and smell the coffee and say what the F___ is going on here when they see they are supporting a play ground for people with guns ... It is only a matter or time and the ATA will be out on their ass, and have no place to go ... Hate to see it happen, but it will ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Probably when it is appropriate to do so.

 

Thanks, Brad.

 

Yeah, thanks Brad.

 

I'll bet that's been happening a lot in the past 14 years-same as centuries past.

 

"And those 2000 shooters just up and quit because their butts got hurt the grand moved to Illinois?"

You should have a real BIG problem with all those people that didn't get "butt hurt" but never show up for that shoot in that place. Don't try to spin this so it sounds like the OH and PA shooters ruined what was once the biggest shoot of the year.

News flash in case you missed it.

The almighty, all knowing, ata said that it wouldn't matter if they moved because,
THE SHOOTERS FROM OTHER STATES CLOSE TO THAT OUTPOST WOULD MAKE UP FOR ANY OH AND PA SHOOTERS THAT WOULDN'T GO THAT FAR TO A GUN HATING STATE. The attendance would be the same or, what a crock this is, BETTER since that place is "centrally located".

Yeah right! Like some black hole that is "centrally located" in an alternate universe.

How's that "centrally located" spot working out for them? I would say the big shots that decided against the wishes of the shooters that answered their poll chose poorly. The definition of the carrot and the stick should show the ata logo and the ILLnews flag.

They screwed the pooch and they know it. They just don't have the balls to admit it and now they have to live with it.

That is until ILLnews pulls the plug on them.

You DID get one thing right in your statement

"...hurt the grand, moved to Illinois"

 

I think maybe I know something that Merlo doesn't. Have a Merry Christmas everyone.

 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Brad to you and yours ,, Stay safe ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Our 5th Christmas!

Not bad for a site that was going to last only 30 days huh?

Here's hoping that guy gets a big box of his favorite Kool-Aid

 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all of the followers of Americantrapshooting.com ... Be safe ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Now Brad, Do you have any idea how many shooters will loose sleep, because you cast some lure of news to them. You have a lot of them lip hooked. Roger C.

 

I knew it wouldn’t be long before word got out... (Mr. Dysinger)

 

Roger,

I'm betting there are more than a few out in the Bozone who are gut hooked. Wouldn't it be a hoot if Mr. Fishburn scheduled an inaugural event for the first couple of weeks in August?

 

It could not be a registered event the EC would not let it be. I would love to see it. A big money shoot non registered would cut their attendance in half. Roger C.

 

I like the way you think! Yes indeed!

 

Brad,

I have seen a lot of pissing and moaning about the POSSIBLE expansion at the CC IF the ATA were to entertain the Grand moving to the facility.

Several years ago I was at the CC and was told Mr. Fishburn had plenty of room to the West to expand the line if ever need. The only thing he would have to do would be to build a bridge over the roadway that is at the left end of the existing fields.

The pissing and moaning is about some possible expansion being 8 more 4 bank traps facing the shot curtains on the other side of the present line.

NOW, I had heard there may be some fields behind the curtains, BUT facing NORTH, now others are saying NO, they will be shooting into the same curtains and will be facing into the south, and into the sun.

CAN YOU find out some clarification to this proposal ? IE: Expansion ? North or south facing ? West over the roadway ?

So many questions, and too much speculation.

I want to add my 2c worth to that conversation, but would like some facts before I go making waves.

Thanks for helping the "Trench Guys"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Reason for the Pissing and moaning:

I’m not going into the proposal from the Cardinal and the EC appreciates the Cardinal’s interest in the Grand .
The proposal is on file at the ATA office .
I will tell you that the line extension was proposed as building a line on the other side of the Shot curtain and shooting back at the other line .
I haven’t been there since the curtain is in place but it’s my understanding the targets can get above the curtain . For this to work I would assume the curtain would have to be raised ?
I have shot the Cardinal many times and have always enjoyed it and God willing I plan to shoot the Ohio State shoot this year .
As I said we appreciate the proposal but are under contract . The Grand is profitable at Sparta and as I stated , I just left Sparta and the sky is not falling! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

It doesn't really matter what Jack offered to the ATA they were never serious about leaving Illinois, right now today the CC expansion happening hasn't anything to do with ATA type trap shooting. Other projects are on the board.

The south shooting idea has to be the dumbest idea I ever heard of and I told the boys that. No way any insurance company today would allow people to shoot at each other, even with a SCREEN between them, and if they thought the bank 5 and 6 complaints were something just wait till shooters had to face south. Dumb, Dumb idea.

 

"It doesn't really matter what Jack offered to the ATA they were never serious about leaving Illinois,"

EXACTLY

LIke I said in the other thread, the Pipe Dreamer HAD to present whatever proposal the CC offered. He would have been questioned if he blatantly ignored it so he did his "duty" as the head honcho and officially brought it up.

If he had a choice he would have deep sixed it.

Besides, he had a much more important subject to consider.

"Hmmmm, what type of wood do I want on my brand new free gun? Man, I love this job."

 

Thanks Brad,

I just could not wrap myself around the fact that was actually a proposal.

Sure glad you intervened and gave them some advice.

I'm glad they went on with their Other Projects instead of wasting money on more trap fields.

The amount they have right now seem to be a perfect fit for their shoots.

 

I've been bugging Jake to let me spill what I know and I will as soon as I get the OK.

 

Brad,

Over the years we all have found that keeping our word on confidentiality is a true testament to one's honor.

In good time you will be given the OK, but you are keeping your word, yet letting us know that changes are on the way.

 

Brad, I hate to admit it ,but you even have me lip hooked. Roger C.

 

Maybe a couple more bunker trap fields so the C.C. could host an International match or an Olympic selection match? That would be pretty cool!

 

DON HAS MERLO BEEN TALKING TO YOU?

 

The only Merlo I know comes from Snively Wines but they spell it funny (Merlot). Should I be looking for a set of bunker barrels? And a bunker coach?

 

Don maybe the skeeters have outgrown the adult book store and a few more of those skeet fields might spring up somewhere too, but this ain't the biggest news coming.

 

There is a rumor floating around on Face Book that Luke is leaving and going to Texas, hope its just a rumor ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

If the NSSA-NSCA offers the job to Luke to replace Brett Moyers I say, good for him and I hope he does well.

Not a thing wrong with someone trying to better themselves by taking on a new job and challenge. Heck, if it was me the weather alone would play a huge part in my decision. Winter in Ohio? Let alone not having to deal with the ata and all their drama?

Just do it!

 

I had heard that Jack was putting in some more skeet fields to accommodate the growing numbers of SCTP shooters. I believe they had to use some of the fields at Blackwing (a beautiful club about 25 minutes away from the Cardinal) last year. I am in agreement with Flyersarebest on Luke. I think he has done a wonderful job at the Cardinal. I would be sad to see Luke leave, but happy for him if he can better himself. Who knows, maybe some NW Ohio game preserve owner wants a summer job and will step in and help out if indeed Luke is leaving.

 

This is only a rumor from on Face Book, nothing confirmed one way or the other ... WPT ... (YAC) ...