$165,000 loss at Pennsylvania

I do not have the whole story on this. I am still trying to piece this together. Bottom line is $165,000 in the red.

Thanks again to you guys in the trenches.

I report, You decide.
merlo out

 

I am curious how they could lose that much money. Capital expense could be a good explanation. PA is a leader in trapshooting. Hoping for a speedy recovery if necessary.

 

Family Guy, Most likely management mismanagement. This can happen in many different ways. A good audit is generally the answer. Roger C.

 

How do we get to see Gipson's contract that might tell you something ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

It's better than I heard, I heard Pa was $400,000. in debt. Good Luck on Gibson's contract. Get your Pa delegate to ask for it and see what good that does him.. Your Eastern Zone VP is stuck in Canada (ATA President) a fantastic direction all over the ATA trap shooting world it seems not just in Sparta.

 

Time out guys....a loss has very little to do with total debt. A loss is for that year. And I doubt Gipson’s contract has anything to do with either. I am sure they will bounce back.

 

I witnessed another large club finance its self into oblivian a few years back and it is ugly. When management is inept and borrows against the clubs assets it is the beginning of the end of the club. If they were already in debt $335.000.00 and added another $165,000.00 to it in one year. The management needs an outside audit and an overhaul of their actions.
The audit would explain where the money went, and how to plug up the leaky holes in the expenses.And also if all expenditures were above board. Roger C.

 

Then is this 165 on top of the 400K or included? How about Merlo? Time for facts from you, that's what I've decided.

 

Brad if it was not included, they are about at the end of the rope for borrowing. If that much is owed to the banks there is probabley a lot in unpaid invoices. Sad that this is happening. Roger C.

 

I feel as if I need a decoder ring to read some of these threads.

 

Come on Roger....you are guessing with the word probably. There is nothing in the thread to suggest their credit is bad. Decoder rings are a great idea.

 

Clipperite, There are very few gun clubs that can service the debt of maybe a half million dollars. I'm speaking from experience of high debt and gun club. Do you have any idea what adds up to a business loss? Roger C.

 

I know at the PA State Shoot alone this year they took in over 330k at that shoot.. no idea the cost to run it but with the # of shooters on Rjstuart per event and what they paid for fee's it was easy to calculate what went to PSSA.. Dedpair could share the cost of running the entire shoot or anyone who has access to that information ... They also had the pa grand, the summer championships and the westy hogans .... Seeing as they gave away first grade participation medals at all their shoots, instead of real true trophies, they must've saved a ton of $.

 

K80Smoke, Have you ever worked at or managed a large shoot? The Spring grand 20 years ago netted over $1,000,000.and was luckey to profit 10% 0f that. The expenses do not start the first day of a shoot and do not end with the last shot. It takes about a week to clean up and do all of the paper work. As a shooter you never see or know what goes into a large shoot.
PS THE 10% just about paid our property taxes, electric bill, and liability insurance for the year. Not much left to pay for the $500,000.00 bank loan. A gun club is a big business and needs able people making the financial decisions, malfeasence can and will lead to the demise of the organization. It takes a good business minded board to run a sucessful large club. Roger C.

 

First grade participation medals, pewter plates, flashlights, glass bowls, belt buckles and various other trinkets are exactly that-junk destined to a box in some obscure corner on an attic. Ya have to be a class C or below shooter to appreciate that stuff. My former All-American son has a vast collection of shell bags and many other trinkets stored in boxes in HIS house. Skip Klinger was on to something awarding free shooting or gift certificates. I always enjoyed paying my wife's target fees with those many tickets she accumulated and I'm sure others did too.

 

Did you actually read my entire post or did you just skim it? I said it was easy to add up on Rjstuart what went to PSSA for the PA State shoot, cost of running it/paying staff and the rest those numbers are a hidden secret .... I said if DEDPAIR wanted to share the cost numbers and how much money they actually did make as profit for the shoot that would be great... Since they give out participation trophies now for wins at PSSA, yeah the vouchers are ok 65$ at CAC or the free targets... I remember my AAA friend whose won the eastern zone single championship now 4 times actually talk about the cost of how much those vouchers are really worth, you're better off buying ammo at CAC with them than pay for targets.

 

100 free targets are worth $35 in my books. When you go to enter do you only offer to pay for the actual cost of the targets? See how far that get's you. FYI, vouchers are worth $30 at Geisers, CAC or Shydas not $65. I'd say you can't beat the deal but if you're still interested in trinkets my wife is offering two cabinets full plus overflows at $35 each. Here's just a few tickets from her collection!

 

YES. I read your post. The proceeds of the shoot regulate the profit that can be derived from it. Did you read my post? have you ever worked or been on the board of a large shoot? If every worker was payed for their services the club would be luckey to break even.How much were the targets per 100? Get elected to the club board and then you can make changes to improve the trophies and show them how to improve the actions of the board of directors.If you were on the board you would be privy to all of the info you are asking for. Does the PSSA own the club where it was held? I see one poster complaining about his son having to many similar trophies, and another one complaining that they are trinkets. Roger C.

 

I forgot the actual cost of the vouchers well they gave two vouchers per trophy, did they go back to giving out only one per trophy? I know in 2019 I won enough at PSSA to have to give up my social security # for the tax form.. It costs about half the cost for pssa than the voucher is worth, if I could remember the story my friend told me it makes sense why.... The trophies at PSSA sucked before they went to the stupid participation medals.... I am not a PA resident, but I highly enjoy shooting at PSSA until they made the changes on the trophies, if you shot a decent caps score and played the full ticket in a caps event you could pay for your whole weekend which I enjoyed. To Roger if you read my post I clearly said DEDPAIR has the information on PSSA that he could choose to post about their financial situation, no I have not been on the board of a giant trap club as I am from Connecticut but if I was from PA I would at least try and get on the trophy committee at PSSA because they really suck.

 

As for the Trophies(other than 5 Championship Days of State Shoot), if you won an Event you would receive 3, CLS/CAT winners 2, and CLS/CAT R/U 1. The Token Trophy was added to these for the Shooters that may not have Won something at PSSA before. Taking 2020 out of the equation, in 2019 at the State Shoot we gave out over 50K in Shamrock Leather and other Trophies. Hope that clears up some of the misinformation out there regarding Trophies.

As for the Financials, the 990's are public knowledge on the internet, if you're into long drawn out paper reports. As for the debt, @100K remained from the 53 PAT Traps, @100K in permits and labor for the Sinkhole, 120K to RJ Stuart, and I believe there was some residual from the Golf Cart purchase. These, along with losing 3 of our 22 Days to Rain, 5 Days of the Eastern Zone Championships and you have the #'s as best as I know.