Modified Choke for Singles?

Does the modified choke do a good job on singles? I shoot fairly fast on the lesser angle targets an a little slower on the hard angles from posts #1 and #5. Will the modified choke give me nice solid hits?

 

Mod is more than sufficient for singles on the 16. Practice a little more on the stations you feel you need a little more help on. Also, keep an eye on your foot position so you don’t run out of swing on those more extreme angles. Good shooting, Rey

 

I have found over the years that the best bet is to match your choke constriction to the yard line you are on. In nice weather I shoot .0015 at the 16 yard line & .0025 on handicap. (.0020 modified for rougher weather & fall or winter) If you are not a target rider, .0015 works fine for singles. Previous poster was right. Watch your foot position on the different stations. Leading foot should be pointed roughly in the middle of your field for that station.

 

Used to shoot .035 (Full) for singles and handicap. Now shoot .020 (Modified) for singles and .030 (Imp. Modified) for handicap. For me that works just fine. Also use the 32" O/U for everything, keep it choked the same for doubles. I know the big name shooters do not do this but they are just better than I am. My 2 cents.

 

Back when the singles game was more of a sporting event (yes there was such a time) Browning put out a two barrel BT99. It came with two top singles. 32 and 34. The 32 was modified and the 34 was extra full.

 

I also shoot fast and break most of my 16 yard targets between 28 and 29 yards. The modified choke will hang smoke for me every time when I do my part.

 

Scoring Wed. night for a team - young man was 14 out of 15 when he realized he forgot to put in his choke tube - I still believe, chokes are measured in inches - most misses are measured in feet ---By the way - found him a choke tube to use, was so upset he ended up with a 20 bird round.

 

I recently switched from a IM to a LIM-.023 in my Krieghoff Trap Special and am very satisfied with the break quality. I might be dreaming but I actually believe I might be picking up a target here and there with this one. I think I'm averaging close to 98% on those many 50 target events I've shot at so far. Maybe I'm finally just learning to shoot that beast. Heck, I've even temporarily retired my SX-1 with Full choke since my scores are so similar. Unfortunately, all things are subject to change!

 

My ?, was looking @ the Briley Sporting Clays chart for 108mm target dome on, it appears to me that the pattern is significantly narrower @ 32 yds with a tighter choke than a more open choke

I'm in the belief if you're using a full choke for singles, you're not filling a 30" circle , you're filling a smaller circle

 

I would be Interested to hear what Mr Dysinger or Mr Berlet would have to say on this subject and why they believe what they do. I know they owe us no explanation but many of us respect these great shooters and would truly appreciate hearing there thoughts on the subject.

 

If Leo was around he would tell you full or fuller.

 

Very few of us had the skill level of Leo, he could thread the center of any target out there, regardless of yardage-for us mere mortals, IMHO--full is more of an handicap than an aid-- we can't hope to thread the needle like the greats

 

My experience over the years has been that what ever you feel is the best choke for you go with it. Over the years I have shot Herb Orre 16yd choke Herb Orre super choke, improved mod, Remington over bored full, Beretta mod and improved mod choke tubes and for the last many years a Wilkinson Handicap full choke on 16yd targets with very little difference at the end of the target year. I honestly believe that you are better off shooting a full choke as you will have better breaks than with a more open choke. Years ago my thinking was that a target that you dusted with a full choke you would have broken with a more open choke, but it just didn't seem to work that way. It seemed that with a more open choke I dusted more instead of less targets. The difference in the size of a pattern from a full to a modified is only about 1" all the way around at the distance you shoot 16yd targets, and you do get better breaks with a full choke. My vote is full choke, what is your choice.

Dave Berlet

 

Well, my highest Singles average ever was a mere 98.28-with a FULL choke.

 

I have never averaged over 98% but my favorite choke for singles is a .025 IM Krieghoff steel choke tube.

 

I like full. It gives the best breaks and builds good technique.

 

I used to to think the more open the better, I’d shoot an LM or M. I always said that I wanted to listen to what Leo said “any choke is fine as long as it’s full” but was always scared I’d miss one because of the tighter pattern. I ended up forgetting to take the full out at the Grand after the day’s handicap event; and shot the Clay Target Championship with the full in, I was on a 500x500 squad on the 1st 100, and ended up breaking the deuce. I’ve left it in ever since.

 

What was your average with a Modified choke?

 

Put me in the "most of us are not good enough to use a Full choke from the 16, and will score more breaks (if not better breaks) from the 16 with a Mod or IMP Mod choke tube in our barrels" camp.
As was said, the truly great shots who advocate Full (or tighter) chokes from the 16 can break 'em all day long with a Super/Extra/Turkey Full. Heck, they could run 'em shooting .22 shorts. You and I aren't that good and need a more open pattern that a Mod choke gives....which, by the way, will still smokeball the targets if you center the shot as long as you don't ride the target out to where it's starting to drop.
If you are new enough to trap shooting to have to ask which choke to use, you're better off using Modified and not riding the target.

 

Wouldn't know since I've never shot a MOD. choke in any of my guns since 1963.

 

Then what relevance is your average with a Full choke? There's nothing to compare it to.
You might have been shooting 98.68's with a Mod choke, who knows? You don't know. We don't know.
We'll never know if Full was the best choke for you since we have no way to put it into perspective.

 

For decades top shooters shot FULL chokes in their Model 12's, 870's and 1100's (especially Leo) with far higher averages than mine. I never shot a higher average than 98.28 with the IMOD chokes that I'm shooting now. Of course, I was much younger once. If you ever watched Leo shoot you'd soon realize he always shot where the target was-never where it wasn't. The late great Frank Little was always convinced he seldom if ever missed a target but one occasionally flew through his pattern. Do you think Frank would recommend a MOD choke?

 

"It seemed that with a more open choke I dusted more instead of less targets."

To translate that ..... you need a 'full pattern' from x-choke .....

Go out into the field and pick up whole targets that have several holes in them, and the score sheet will have 0 for that shooter .....

A finite number of 'pellets/shot', spread over a larger area with a more open choke, can/will produce more "dusted/lost targets" .....

So ..... a open choke with a larger number of 'pellets/shot' may give the same results as a more restricted choke with less 'pellets/shot' ..... You need enough 'pellets/shot' on the target to break it ..... Those who shoot less 'pellets/shot', like 7/8 oz shells, for whatever their reason, should consider a more open choke a disadvantage from any yardage .....

 

Pattern is more important than what is marked on the choke. If you are getting a nice well distribution of pellets from your I.M. choke, and are rolling targets up in a black ball from the 27 yd. line why change.
I shot STS light handicap #8's from the 27 very succesfully for years. It is the pattern not the choke. Roger C.

 

That's because, for decades, shotguns came only with fixed chokes and if you wanted to shoot handicap targets you had to use a gun with a Full choke. This meant that, unless you could afford a second gun or a second barrel for your Remington, you bought your gun with a Full barrel and lived with it for everything. (talking trap here, remember) Advancements are continually being made, take advantage of them.

 

Many of tried those Remington barrels marked MOD TRAP years ago but most went to the trash heap of time. Anyway, who's dumb enough to argue with Frank Little's logic?

 

I rarely shoot singles because I get bored easily, but have run many (to many ) 25 straights with my full choked guns ... I am not one that patterns a gun to see any holes in the pattern because like "Snow Flakes" there are no two shells exactly alike so a hole in one pattern probably will not exist in the same (exact) spot in any other patterns, but I like to see the "Hot Spot" of said pattern ... Just for kicks I shot a skeet gun at 16's one time, broke 24 but had some really weak hits ... If I shoot 16's even just for the fun of it I use the same gun, and shells as I use for handicap which is a full choke and 7 1/2's ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

P.S. I have also found that many times something that works for one person may just not work for another ...

 

Frank Little was good enough to utilize a Full choke on 32-35 yard singles targets.
Most of the rest of us are not on Frank's level and need all the help we can get.

Here's a quote from Jimmy Muller when asked about tight chokes for singles:

"The U4 pattern will not fully develop at Trap yardages rendering the U3 a better Handicap Choice. This also warrants my statement that Full choke is not best. If it truly patterns like a full choke should, it will not fully develop at 16 yard distance and you would be much better of with a more open choke such as the U2 which I designed to fully develop around 35 yards to 45 yards"

 

Most of the rest of us never get good enough to break AA or AAA Singles averages regardless of what choke we use. Personally I have little use for a choke that chips and chunks and my brain likes the feedback I get from hanging sootballs. Most of us in the know also believe these newer targets are not the same as we shot decades ago before the advent of automatic traps and their target handling issues. Hence, the need for more choke!

 

Chips and chunks come from the shooter, not the gun, the shells, or the chokes. But you know that.
We all love a smokeball and if you center the target at 32-35 yards you'll get a sootball whether the choke in your gun is a Modified or a Full.
Watch a good shooter with a Modfied in his gun and you'll know that, too.

 

Just about every shooter goes thru the "open is better" choke journey. And as you advance and shoot progressively better, you will end up with .035 in your gun, or in my case a safe full of full choke non-tubed guns. It may be counter intuitive to shoot a tighter choke, but few guys running 100's are shooting anything else. I also suggest you spend time at the pattern board. There is not a huge difference between .025 and .035. But what you will see is that the "fringe area" of the .025 really doesn't help you much. Finally, on you trap journey you will gravitate to really enjoying handicap. Sloppy "fringe breaks" in singles will really punish you in handicap. You want to really focus and center every shot in singles if you want any hope of successful handicap shooting. But then again, I could be wrong..... Paul

 

Please tell all of us how many "great shooters" you know shoot MOD chokes!

 

The fact is if you own a barrel with choke tubes you should pattern the tube before you register scores. point being I went out west and spent some time with Phil and my full choke tube shot to a much higher point of impact than my IM choke did. I learned my lesson then and there. not all choke tubes will shoot where your looking.

 

Where is Neil when we need him. I have had IM chokes That threw better paterns than full chokes. The pattern is way more important than the choke. Go to pattern board check density in center of pattern and also how evenly the shot is distributed. Roger C.

 

Reading is fundamental, 'dawg'. I did not say "great shooters", I said "good shooters". There's a difference....
The "great" shooters out there aren't the ones questioning their choice of choke tubes. I'm addressing the not-so-great.

The next posts helps clarify that:

I couldn't agree more. If a shooter is running 100's, then he/she is good enough to be able to utilize a Full-type choke. I've said that before, repeatedly.

Spending time on the pattern board is excellent advice, plux. Your last sentence is telling, though, and no one will argue what it said. That fringe area won't help you much, but it will help you some! If it even helps a mediocre shooter 1% better, well, that's an extra target every hundred. How many of us, mediocre or AAA would kill for an extra target?? Thank you for helping me make my point.

 

I am not a fan or in any way a fanatic about patterning a shot gun (any) because as I said before there are no two shells exactly alike so the chances of having two exact patterns are as remote as the hole being in the same exact spot in any two patterns EVER ... I went over this with Neil Winston (RIP) he eventually admitted that what I was saying was 100% accurate about patterns, he even conceded there might be a hole in a pattern and you may never see that same hole in the same place in ANY other pattern ever again ... He was reluctant at best to agree but So Help Me God He Did after about a 2 hour discussion ... I am not a choke tube guy so none of my guns have tubes though a few have been slightly modified (opened ) to give me any edge I can hope for ... I look at the "Hot Spot" in patterns and the density of the pattern in and around the center (Hot Spot) of the patterns ... If you are going to count on flyers or fringe you are a loser before you start, but you will have a lot of excuses for missing ( at least in your own mind ) by counting on the fringe ... Patterns are Multi dimensional so they are constantly changing from the time they leave the barrel until they fall to the ground, thus the pattern changes constantly (agreed and accepted by Neil Winston) during one of our (disagreements) discussions ... This Basically means "Trap Shooting" is a game of chance, hoping any open spots (holes) in your pattern are not at the given spot the target is at that exact moment ... The gun is one thing, the shells are the second thing to consider when it come to pattern, then of course there is the Shooter and how they shoot and where they break targets (if any hole is not at that particular place ) at the time ... I rest my case ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

First of all there's plenty of good shooters and if they believe their 95's out of a 100 are satisfactory with a MOD choke they'll never know if a tighter choke will produce 99's and 100's. Personally, the guys I shoot against are ATA All-Americans on a regular basis and I doubt any would consider a MOD choke. Secondly, those 1 oz. shot afficianados already know it's important to choke up when using less shot. That should tell you something. Remember, at least 90% of today's shooters are simply professional practice shooters and cannot compete at the next level regardless of what choke they prefer. There are some shooters who believe a skeet choke is a formula for success-those basket size patterns will never fail em. Those of us who consistently break high scores know better. Last but not least, I have a Super-X Model 1 marked IM that's choked at .030-kinda tight for an IM. I've had Wilkinson barrels choked at .023 (supposedly IM) and both barrels were noted for consistently smoked targets. So, the first place to start is learning to read a bore gauge properly and then knowing exactly what choke you have-not what's marked on the barrel or choke tube.

 

So you agree that a more open choke...more open than Full....gives you an advantage?

Nobody counts on fringe hits. We all hope for centered targets, but since no one is perfect every time, some of your hits, and mine, and everyone else's, will be fringe hits. I guarantee it. Centered hits are always broken targets, fringe hits need the help that a Mod-type choke will give.

So, what is your case? Full for everyone and everything? Or something less than Full for singles?
If Full is best for all shooters at all yardage, why don't all doubles shooters shoot Full for the first target in doubles? That bird is just a slightly quicker shot at singles?

 

Mudpack,
I had two guns (Pre 64 Model 12's) that had extremely tight chokes (.044 - .046 ) so I had those opened up to a Full choke but less restriction though still very much full chokes according to scales (.038) ... I suggest you use what works for you and I will do the same ... I do not shoot singles except for playing around, same goes for doubles so I want my guns set up for Handicap ... That is not saying I cannot shoot singles or doubles, just says I choose not to unless its is just for kicks and I would use a full choke both shots ...
I had a MX-2000/8 that had the single barrel worked on by Wilkinson that measured .740/ .032 that patterned tighter than either one of the afore mentioned Model 12's (.038- .038 after being choked ) ... My Case is essentially use what works for you , the thing that works best for me is a Full (not extra full ) choke ... If I do shoot doubles and use a Model 12, obviously I use the same choke for both shots, the over /under I had was choked at .022/ .032 from the factory (Perazzi) and the bores were .736, also same shells (Handicap 7 1/2's) because that is what I have on hand ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Shot full for 15 years and thought that was the only way to go. Smoke balls all the way. Tried an improved mod last year and it did the exact same thing as the full did just that if I messed up alittle it gave me some leeway. Full for caps for sure. But that’s just me.

 

I have seen IM chokes that pattern tighter than some full chokes, the ammo can also make a difference in the patterns ... My Father was a fanatic about chokes, ammo, patterns, who would literally spend hours on end evaluating patterns he got from his guns with a 30 inch piece of clear plexiglass (over lay) so he could get a visual evaluation of his handy work ... I told him many times he is wasting his time because no two shotgun shells are exact duplicates of each other so there would be a difference in each pattern if he liked it or not ... I tried to explain to him the patterns were at a given distance (static) and changed constantly ( multi dimensional) until the energy no longer exists and the shot falls to the ground ... I told him he would be better off to practice and get consistent because he has no control beyond that ... When he died he had (30) wad boxes stuffed with rolled up patterns he had made and evaluated ... He should of spent that time and money on practice, he could of got more sleep and enjoyed breaking targets rather than counting holes in the paper (patterns) ... I go to the pattern board to find the Point of impact compared to the point of aim, and see where the "Hot Spot" is which is more consistent than any pattern I have ever seen ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

I asked Leo Harrison what he thinks about when he is shooting, he said "NOTHING" ... Can't argue with that and it sure worked for him ... (RIP) ...

 

Fixed full, 7 1/2. That is all that needs said !!!!

 

Modified choke, and 1-1/4 oz. of kentuckey 9's Ideal for 16yrd. targets. (argument settled) Roger C.

 

I think a mod is just fine out to 22.

it’s not the arrow it’s the Indian

 

The problem with people always saying "it’s not the arrow it’s the Indian", it implies there are no limits ..... there are .....

The best shooter ever probably couldn't take a 12ga 1/2 oz shell, shoot a 12 inch barrel with a IC choke, and run a 100 from the 27 .....

Just like the best drag race car driver ever, couldn't take a 4 second slower car and catch/pass the other car, taking off at the same time .....

The best "Indian" ever can never out-perform their equipment ..... The rest of the "Indians" are probably never able to perform at the same level as their equipment is capable of .....

 

I'd rather be the best Indian, than have the best equipment....

 

Best of both, Lakota Sioux with repeating rifles vs Custer equipped with single shot trap doors-- And Custer was the last in his class @ West Point

 

Full !!!!

 

Singles? There isn’t much money in the handicap game. Why shoot singles?