POLL - New Trapshooting Organization

Is it time for a new Trapshooting Organization that is controlled by its members and has financial transparency ?

 

But wouldn't that require a lot of hard word, commitment, and an unselfish dedication to the future? Wouldn't you agree that complaining about the past is a lot more productive?

 

If something is not done and done soon the registered trap shooting will be a thing of the past. The members have no control over the management of the organization. The people in control do not seem to have any idea of how to maintain the viability of the organization. The ladder of ascention to the presidentcy is flawed. Even if a person is capable of making changes in the operations, by the time he is brain washed for 5 plus years he has lost the ability to make the changes that are needed. The old guard will not let any changes to be made to their piggy bank. The B.O.D. needs to be revised so people with business sense and back bone are voted in those positions. Also they must represent the members of the state they represent. By their own admission the EC stated the B.O.D. work for them not the members .
My personal opinion is we need a new organization, with new blood in charge and more member voice in the operations.
An educatrd B.O.D. would also be necessary. That is my opinion what is yours? Roger Coveleskie

 

Also they must represent the members of the state they represent. By their own admission the EC stated the B.O.D. work for them not the members .

And the BOD are kept in the dark with the current situation. Too bad, but that is the way it is (right now anyway)

 

The Florida Trap Association, should change its name to the Silver Dollar Trap Association; honestly without the Dollar and Robinson Ranch, registered shooting in Fl would be dead--there are aprox 300 shooters who shoot ATA targets in Fl

Now take away Ohio & Pa--the ATA would be dead nationally

 

635G, Mis management has sunk many long standing organizations, the ATA is about to join those ranks. The ATA management team is inadaquit to do the job, the EC must be either reorganized or disbanded and a professional CEO put in place to save the organization. The EC has castrated the members from any partisipation in the running of the ATA, and have proven that they do not have the ability to keep it viable over the long haul. If they are not agreeable to memership help, then we must abandon them for a new organization with competent leadership. But we must keep our eyes on the assets of the existing organization.
When I joined the ATA in 1974 it was a well run organization, it has now morphed into a good old boys piggy bank, that does not let the member have any say in the direction of the organization. They just want the members to finance them and do what they are told to do. Sad but true. Roger C.

 

I do not know for sure the Answer is to start a new organization or would it be better to try and force the Elected Officials of the current organization to abide by the rules and by laws of the existing Corporation legally and by an Order of the Court ... The operations of the ATA has deteriorated because of the ED, EC, and many of the BOD for the past 20 years and the membership not having any say so in the operation of said organization ... I joined a very well run members organization in 1975 that the members were proud to be associated with, that has changed over the years as rules got changed, altered or Modified to fit the needs of those elected to represent the membership and they only look out for their own good for access to the Cash Cow ... There are many on the EC, the ED, and the BOD who attend shoots because they get their expenses paid because they are supposedly there to represent the members yet they avoid the members like they have the plague or as of late the Corona Virus ... The ATA is an established Corporation and there are laws that have to be adhered to as a Corporation ... There has to be a way to force the Issues legally and get the ATA back as it should be, if that cannot be accomplished then starting a new organization would probably be the only viable answer ... We all age every year year so the longer it takes the less likely there will be enough left who give a shit what happens to the ATA as we die off ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I would have thought this topic would have more responses with the Sparta fiasco and the incompetent Ed, Ec and Bod

 

You're preaching to the choir. The membership at large is only too happy to continue clutching their Holy Average Card to the breast and shooting a game that has lost its purpose.
JMO of course

 

Very well put. That's precisely the problem.

 

But....the ATA is dying. It needs the new blood of the younger shooters that don’t want the boring targets and high scores. Those that left wanted money and hard targets.

Does anyone hear a plan from the EC? Nothing but crickets.

 

I can't see the ATA coming back and I don't see any new organization coming along. Trap shooting was historically made up of off season bird and waterfowl hunters and wild bird hunting has gone the way of the passenger pigeon and there are far fewer duck hunters today than in 1974 when I started shooting ATA.

The money in the firearms business is in black guns. Today's young shooters for the most part own and shoot rifles and handguns. Registered Trap Shooting was in large part an industry invented sport in the first place. Today the industry's major players don't even have representatives at the major shoots when in the past they attended even smaller weekend events, just the fact.

Trap is going the way of skeet, golf, bowling, and it looks like baseball, football, and basketball. Today's youth live in a virtual world instead of a real world. I'm sure there will be trap shooting around forever but the big registered shoots that I attended are going the way of the large buffalo herds.

The ATA moving to anti gun Illinois just hastened the process I'd guess. I can't see anyone in today's management that can fix it, they don't or won't even admit there is a problem.

Registered shooting needs to get back to being about winning money, cars, gold. If there isn't a next level for all these SCTP shooters to aspire too they won't stay. Not all kids want a virtual world but they need to see something worth going and working for. Accumulating Money and neat stuff has always been the American way. If a new organization is to come along reward the best and leave the ATA the rest.

 

"Registered Trap Shooting was in large part an industry invented sport in the first place"

True ..... And I think the "ATA" gets far too much credit for what once was .....

There were also great 'Club' people behind all the great shooting 'back in the day', and the "ATA" was just a required 'ticket' to compete at some venues .....

Some 'interest groups', like beer companies, shotgun makers, and so on, put up big money and large prizes ..... but ..... I don't remember the "ATA" ever being the sole driving force for the gold and riches ..... again, just a requirement for those venues .....

Those 'interest groups', and large shoot "industry" promoters, were forced out/left when everyone let Trapshooting become the next nanny-sport ..... where drinking, gambling, smoking, money/gold, winning, and everything else became evil ..... Many 'kids' grew up around all this and had 'normal' lives, but the "ATA", and others, gave-in to the nanny-sport seekers .....

Getting Trapshooting back to anything close to what it was will require a new generation of strong 'Club' managers/promoters, like those of the past .....

 

Spot on man!!!!!

 

"Club People" This is my experience. There are some clubs that run great weekly programs and have done so for a long time. Friday and Saturday night Calcutta's is the big thing around here. 50/50 buyer /shooter. Money is whats competed for. Some clubs have holiday weekend and memorial Calcutta's that draw in ATA all Americans and HOF'ers. A lot of good shots have an ata card and have never registered a bird. Its their "ticket". Im fortunate to have some well ran, old school clubs around me.

 

Dustin, I do not want your address, but can you tell use in general what area has these shoots? We in AZ. only have state run clubs in the AREA CAN NOT HAVE THOSE KIND OF SHOOTS. Roger C.

 

south eastern Indiana. 30-45 minutes west of cincy. lots and lots of small 1 and 2 trap clubs out here. (KOI trisate) some are just weekly league shoots, some are weekly league and registered targets 1 or 2 sundays a month and some are all 3 with a Calcutta on typically Friday or saturday. There are other clubs that have registered competitions on a regular monthly schedule along with a memorial or annual club registered shoots and weekly big 50's. Its a rural area and most clubs originated in the 30's thru 50's as some type of conservation club. some are seasonal. some just play games one day a week. One club located about 20 minutes from the next.

 

Dustin, I'm origionally from north east Ohio, we had many small clubs to shoot at. not the same in AZ. Roger C.

 

Mr. D, whatever exposure you get from this side of the coin, please be sure to take it with a grain of salt. Some very extreme opinions and rumors on here. Some users have multiple screen names so things can get tricky sometimes. Just sit back and watch quietly until you can form your own opinion of the ATA and or this website or the one across the street. Some very fine folks on this site and a few bitter ones as well. You must be careful how you ask questions on here. Some are on HIGH ALERT, looking for infiltrators and will think you are a troll and up to no good. lol. But what do I know, Im just really a FNG on here. Good Day!

 

Thanks Dustin. No not a troll just a guy from Huntsville AL who likes to shoot Trap with very few locations to do that and even fewer that have any connections with ATA.

 

Mr D. Welcome! I think you will find the group here have better manners than the group on the other site. I also believe that if you ask for advice here you will get a much more knowledgeable answer. too many idiots on the other site that are only legends in there own mind.

 

The ATA moving to anti gun Illinois just hastened the process I'd guess. I can't see anyone in today's management that can fix it, they don't or won't even admit there is a problem.

Registered shooting needs to get back to being about winning money, cars, gold. If there isn't a next level for all these SCTP shooters to aspire too they won't stay. Not all kids want a virtual world but they need to see something worth going and working for. Accumulating Money and neat stuff has always been the American way. If a new organization is to come along reward the best and leave the ATA the rest.[/QUOTE]

Without getting in to the politics of the move to Illinois, the management of the ATA and the need for harder targets. My question is HOW to get back to "winning money, cars, gold"? It's seems as though the clubs and/or organizations need
some kind of sponsorships etc. to get the money/big prizes back in winner's hands. Either that or the competitors need to
be willing to pony up a lot more in entry fees to get that kind of reward. If it comes to more in entry fees it seems that from a club standpoint they would be putting their neck out there quite a ways gambling on participation numbers supporting the commitment of a car/big money/ gold etc. If sponsorships is the proposed "means" of getting the "money, cars, gold" back in the game those sponsors are going to have to get over the stigma tied to guns and shooting that seems to be prominent in today's society. The sponsors that my club has had in the past are reeling back on gun related sponsorships due to some recent claim of liability coming back on the sponsor if there were any injuries/deaths related to the sponsored event.
I surely do not mean this as a mockery of your opinion and agree that if there were rewards like you are suggesting that the sport would be able to grow but my question still is, how do we get there?

 

Simple answer ..... Hire someone who understands Sponsorship Analytics ..... Not pay 200k-ish for someone who knows little and does less .....

"A good advertising ROI is between 25% and 50% and above. Return on investment is driven by advertising strategy. Every advertising campaign begins with strategy and is decided with clients. Strategy combines goals, budget and tactics to reach the target."

"Event Sponsorship Vs. Other Marketing Spends"

"Of course, sponsoring may cost less than other advertising and marketing methods. Depending on the sponsor status or event scale, these costs could run into thousands or millions of dollars per event.

You wouldn’t want to spend any amount without having any idea of how much value you’re getting in return. Consequently, at the most basic level, you would want to know whether a sponsorship campaign is successful or not."

"The sponsors that my club has had in the past are reeling back on gun related sponsorships due to some recent claim of liability coming back on the sponsor if there were any injuries/deaths related to the sponsored event." Just a BS way of saying no thanks ..... If a sponsor was liable for their sponsored Events, not much would ever be sponsored .....

At this point it would be hard to get large "Sponsorship" for shrinking Event attendance, and a very low ROI .....

Start building on what you can get, and learn from the past .....

 

There will be no big dollar sponsorships without TV, let's face trap is a boring game to watch.

 

NEWS FLASH, If you do not get out and elect Trump you will not have a gun to shoot trap with. Biden is against citizen gun ownership. among many other things that will make your life miserable. Roger C..

 

Pardon the high jacking of this thread but,

I’ve said it more than once in different threads.
We MUST get off the couch and vote for President Trump. We can’t think the other guy will take care of it because President Trump can’t lose.

In the last 4 weeks I have driven through PA, OH, WV, VA and MD
The Trump signs outnumber the biden signs at least 50 to 1 but that doesn’t mean it’s a lock. Please, remember that a lot of people, gun owners, thought obama would never win.

 

And ..... WHEN President Trump wins re-election, it starts a four year clock for the next one .....

Playing fourth-quarter defense is never a position of advantage ..... Continue down that path and you will lose more than you win .....

The day after, and everyday before President Trump wins re-election, he will be very busy fighting many battles from all directions ..... 'We' need to do a better 'job' playing a four year offense game, instead of the fourth-quarter panic one .....

 

And most of these same people were sure that Obama would never be re-elected for a second term. Don't be complacent, make sure you vote. Thank you.

 

Well it looks like we need a New Trapshooting Organization.... 66.2% say we need a new organization while 33.8% said no or not at this time. I guess that i will have to have a conversation with Brad Dysinger next weekend while I'm at his place for a pheasant hunt... I probably will look for imput from several individuals from this site to help this new organization become a reality.

 

Got together with Brad yesterday... was a very enlightening afternoon. Plenty of history was discussed and ideas for the future... my pheasant hunt was a tough going with temps in the 70's and dry conditions, but the guide (Scott)and the dogs (Floyd & Leo) did very well to put us on some tough birds. We got 8 birds and I know now why Brad named it Thorn Bottom Hunting. Thanks again to Brad and Ann for the great hospitality, we're definitely going back again.

 

Seitz1113, glad you made it home. Ohio and Pa need to start the Eastern Trap Shooting Association, I guess New York can come too. Good luck getting it going. It was very hot yesterday, I enjoyed talking to you guys a bunch. Keep up the fight.