Porting

Is porting your trap gun making a come back?

 

Porting is a waste of money, and detrimental to the function of the barrel. Roger C.

 

Save your money for shells or other things. To have a gun ported? No
The only thing you will gain is a lighter wallet.

 

The only advantage to porting would be on the first shot of doubles to reduce muzzle jump to help stay on the gun for the second shot. Just shoot a light 1oz. for the first shot for the same effect.

 

The only people who will say it works are the people who do it to your guns, most others will say they cannot tell any or much difference ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Plus cleaning the plastic residue from cheap/soft wads that clog the ports is a real PITA.

 

They do nothing for barrel flip but they do help with perceived recoil.

 

Percieved recoil? Um, no they don't.

 

I would recommend watching Jim Eysters video on YouTube. He goes into detail on porting. He admits porting does nothing for muzzle flip , however porting and back boring does in fact help with recoil. Personally I could give a crap all my guns are 18.4 bore and fixed chokes with the exception of a browning that I bought for friends to use during dove season it came ported.

 

Otis, Back boring is beneficial, porting is a detriment to a shot gun barrel. Roger C.

 

I don’t think it’s necessary a detriment. I mean if I got a deal on a set of barrels that someone reputable ported I probably wouldn’t care except for the fact that I could get them on the cheap. I’d never send a gun to get ported.

 

Might check with Ray Stafford he port's all his barrel's, but I'm sure you all know more than him.

 

Ray Stafford was a very accomplished trap shooter long before barrel porting got started ... If Ray didn't shoot ported barrels for most of his life and then had his barrels ported and all of a sudden shoots like he does and has for years I would say there is more to it than holes in the side of your barrel ... Going to have to come up with a better one than that to support your position ... Name the All Americans who have ported barrels, or someone , anyone who would say once they had their barrels ported they got to be great shooters otherwise you are out of gas ... Trapshooting is loaded with gimmicks to find the Magic, barrel porting is one of them ... Port hole belong on boats ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Your opinion only.

You don't like ' em, don't use 'em

 

THEY DO REDUCE THE VALUE OF A GUN. Trap shooters are the easiest people to sell a usless product to if they think it will make them an instant champion. Desire, hard work, and ability is the only thing that will achieve that. TRINKETS DO NOT WORK. Roger C.

 

Very simple, if you don’t like ported barrels don’t buy them. Let’s have a real conversation like what choke is best.

 

They do lower the cost of barrels which is great. I purchased a spare O/U for my mx3 special last year. They were pro ported and I got the barrel cheap. Choked .016/.032 great barrel and I don’t care if it has holes in it.

 

Serious question for WPT, Roger, Smokintom, and any other anti-porting guys. How many barrels have you had ported? How many shells through said barrels?

 

I personally have none, but family members have, my Father shot a TM-1 34 inch , until one night the choke end of the barrel went flying when he fired a shot, after that it was a 30 inch single barrel and not ported ... I have looked at testing results and not one of them showed a minimal amount of all the claims let alone drastic improvements ... There was a gun smith from Michigan who did a lot of porting, told me that it was a gimmick but people figured it would unleash the Magic ... If someone shoots 100 straight with a toilet hanging on the end of their barrel there will be a run on toilets ... I shot my fathers guns on more than one occasion, I could not tell any difference ... I am not a guy who is big on gimmicks or Magic wands ... I was a dealer at one time and tried to not deal with guns that were ported after seeing what happened to my Fathers TM-1 ... It is your Money spend it any way you wish but my opinion is invest in more shells and not the gimmicks, and practice, practice, practice ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

For anyone interested I have Magic Barrel oil, guarantee you break 100 straight if you hit them hard enough to at least chip them ... ...

 

Wasn't there a chart or graph printed somewhere that showed barrel porting was a waste of money.

 

EB, I used to port barrels for people and I can say porting is a waste of money. If it makes you feel better, go for it. A proper fitting gun will achieve everything that porting is (supposed) to do. Barrel jump is almost NIL. Felt recoil is NIL. Felt recoil is all perceived. Recoil comes the instant the shell fires, not when the charge reaches the end of the barrel.
If porting floats your boat, go for it.
Longer forcing cones does more for felt recoil and pattern improvement than porting could ever achieve. Many new guns have longer forcing cones from the factory. Do any new guns come with porting? Roger C.

 

Thanks for the replies Roger & WPT. Lots of the Browning Trap line comes with factory porting. I have had several barrels ported and have bought several with porting. Can't honestly say that it does or does not make a difference. Now reaming out the barrel will make a BIG difference provide the barrel is really a 12 gauge (0.727).

 

Didn't a local barrel reamer have a few that didn't do very well-like pieces?

 

Don't know. Allem did one of mine and it is still going strong thirty years later. Same for one Wilkinson did for me more than 30 years ago.

 

Hey Bill,,,,How about those MAGIC ROCKS ?

 

Yes, my wife had a set back in the day.

 

My question is why are company still porting barrels as standard equipment { like Browning with everything ported } instead of offering it as a option? I has to cost them something? Why not offer it as a option?

 

Does the ATA rule book state no gun larger than a 12GA. can be used? A barrel opened up to .750 is no longer a 12GA.
Do we have any comments on this rule? 12 LEAD BALLS .750 DO NOT HAVE THE PROPER WEIGHT TO BE CLASSED AS 12 Ga. Roger C.

 

12 gauge shell. If you want to shoot it out of a two inch diameter water pipe it’s legal. Stan Baker’s big bore were made from 10 gauge barrels

 

Hogwart's physics on public display plus some well distributed and undocumented old wives' tales.

 

.750 isn’t a standard 12 bore anyway.

 

There is little standardization in bore sizes. I shoot 18.4’s

 

Otis, Where did you get that information? The defination of GA. is 12 round balls .727 dia must weigh 1 pound. 16 GA. is 16 round balls must weigh 1 pound. The only exception is the .410 ga.
The info is how the GA. is measured. and it pertains to the barrel diameter, not the shell. This method was implemented before cartrige type shells were invented. Roger C.

 

About 30 years ago I shot with Pete S. @ the old Salt Lake Gun Club. He broke 100 from the 27. His gun was a Savage auto loader with a re-chambered (shot 12 ga shells) 10 gauge barrel. Be on the look out for his gun as someone stole it from him after the 100.

 

.410 is not a gauge it’s a bore.

 

What is your point? The ata doesn’t care what your bore diameter is. They only have limitations on the shell you shoot. Using your lead ball theory, what’s the perfect gauge?

 

I ask if it was legal. There is a difference between being legal, and being tollerated. I just stated the defination of a 12GA. gun. We also know that all ATA rules are strickly adhered to, do we not. Roger C.

 

Otis, You are getting into something that you have no knowlege of. The lead ball comment is not a theory it is indeed fact. I feel a little like I may be talking to my toaster. Roger C.
PS `18.4 MM = .72496 thousand decimals measurment.

 

18.4 is .724 inch. You’re spot on the lead ball thing is correct in the Stone Age. The 16 bore is the perfect gauge with 1 oz. of shot.

 

read your rule book ! This conversation is stupid.

 

I JUST SET THE TOASTER ON LIGHT, AND APOLOGIZED TO IT.
Are you going to be at the western zone shoot in Tucson? Roger C.

 

I had my lawn blower on full ball’s hoping to meet your toaster on the field of honor.

 

I’ve been a life member there since 2003.

 

I will be there , maybe I can buy you a coffee. Did you get the PM I sent? Roger C.

 

The other thing about porting is that it's a pain the butt tp keep them clean. All barrels are ported on my berretta combo. The gun came that way. If I had my druthers I would un do it. If you want to reduce muzzle jump on the first shot of doubles, go to a light 1oz load.

 

If porting does nothing to reduce recoil or barrel flip, why bother to keep the ports clean??? Let 'em fill up with whatever and break 'em all.
While we're on the subject, I believe it's been conclusively demonstrated that lengthening forcing cones also do nothing to reduce recoil, perceived or actual.

 

Lengthing the forcing cone reduces the squeeze when the shot charge enters the bore dia. it also helps with less deforming of the shot. Can you post where in info was that demonstrated no benefit from the lengthing of the forcing cones.
Roger C.

 

The AMAZING thing about a persons mind is if you think it does something (works) even if it does not it may boost your confidence to some degree, those people will swear to God it works and only a fool would try to convince them otherwise ...
Sports in general have their fair share of gimmicks to entice and promote people to use those products ... If people would research things before investing in them the vendors would lose out but the potential customer would be better served ... I, Personally am not one of those who goes for all of the gimmicks even though on occasion I have tried a few only to see they did nothing but take up space ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

For anyone interested I have Magic Barrel oil, guarantee you break 100 straight if you hit them hard enough to at least chip them ... ...

 

That information was posted too long ago for me to remember the source.

Can you post where it's been demonstrated that lengthening the forcing cone reduces recoil?

 

• GUNS

Shotgun Test: How an Altered Forcing Cone Can Improve Pellet Patterns
Altering your forcing cone can improve your patterns and performance




forcing cones
The standard forcing cone length at .42 inches (top) and the lengthened cone at 2.5 inches.Clint Ford
One of my favorite shotguns is my Benelli Super Vinci. It’s lightweight, points naturally, and is tough as nails. However, I became a bit disenchanted with it following a few less-than-satisfactory hits on geese.

While well within 12-gauge specs, Benelli bores tend to run a little on the smallish side and I reasoned that it might benefit from having the forcing cone lengthened and polished.

For those not fully familiar with shotgun anatomy, the forcing cone is the area inside the bore, just ahead of the chamber, where the larger chamber tapers down to meet the smaller bore. In many shotguns, this cone length is very short—less than an inch. Lengthening the forcing cone by 2 or 3 inches with a chamber reamer, followed by polishing, creates a longer, more gradual taper for the shot charge to transition into the smaller main bore. The hoped-for result is less pellet deformation, fewer flyers, and more uniform patterns downrange.

“The main purpose of lengthening the forcing cone is to bring any distorted stray pellets back into the pattern to make it denser,” says Rob Roberts, whose gunsmithing company does the work on Benelli’s Performance Shop hunting guns. “It will also reduce felt recoil, as it opens up the gate, as it were, and takes back pressure away from the shoulder and pushes it out the muzzle”

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While Benelli shotguns are good candidates for forcing-cone lengthening, other shotguns can also benefit from the procedure. Browning’s Maxus and A5 both have factory-lengthened Vector Pro forcing cones and overbored barrels that I’ve found consistently produce stellar patterns. Still, Roberts says, “We’ve found that the smaller the bore, the better the results from longer forcing cones.”
Measurable Results
While I noticed less recoil and better results on birds and clays with my gun, I had Roberts gather some hard before-and-after data on an Super Black Eagle II he worked on (see chart below).

With each of the three loads he tested, pellet counts spiked after lengthening the forcing cone—an 11 percent increase with both target and steel loads, and a 7 percent increase with the turkey load.

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In terms of performance gains and affordability, forcing cone lengthening is a great value among shotgun modifications, often costing less than $100 per barrel—in some cases much less. Just be sure to have a reputable gunsmith perform the task.


cone force test
All shots taken at 40 yards using a Benelli SBE II both before and after having forcing cone lengthened. Chokes used were Rob Roberts’ T2 light modified and Final Strut turkey tubes.Jarrod Spilger
Load 1: Fed. Speed Shok 3-in. 1 ¼-oz. #2 steel at 1,400 fps Choke: T2 (light modified) Avg. No. pellets in load: 155

Load 2: Fed. Target 2 ¾-in. 1 ¹⁄₈-oz. #8 lead at 1,200 fps Choke: T2 (light modified) Avg. No. pellets in load: 400

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Load 3: Win. Long Beard XR 3 ½-in. 2-oz. #4 lead at 1,200 fps Choke: .660 turkey Avg. No. pellets in load: 270

All shots taken at 40 yards using a Benelli SBE II both before and after having forcing cone lengthened. Chokes used were Rob Roberts’ T2 light modified and Final Strut turkey tubes.


WPT ... (YAC) ... No need to Thank me ...

 

Shotgun Mysteries: Which Modifications Work?

I. Back-Boring

The term was allegedly coined, and certainly popularized, by the late Stan Baker, of Seattle, Washington. Mr. Baker pulled up to .070 inch or so out of his barrels, and various entities have claimed "better" patterning, less recoil, and one thing that is a matter of fact, less weight.

What factories tout as "back-bored" barrels are not back-bored at all, they are merely over-bored. From what I've experienced, this is more of a "placebo effect" than anything else, in addition to being a marketing tool. If you believe in physics, free recoil actually increases as your gun now weighs a small amount less with true back-boring.

The recoil assumption is overstated, even misrepresented, and the theoretically better patterning is a long way from being clinically proven. A 16 gauge is as superior to a 20 gauge as it is inferior to a 12 gauge in the sense of forgiveness, ability to handle larger shot sizes, and pattern efficiency with a bit heavier payloads. If you could back-bore a 20 gauge enough you might eventually reinvent the 16 gauge, obsoleting the 20 gauge if the back-bore theories held great value.

Back-boring seems to achieve nothing significant in terms of patterning, but does help balance muzzle heavy scatterguns. Certainly, both "standard" shotgun bores and overbored barrels both can produce excellent patterns. Whether a shotgun is marketed as back-bored or not has little correlation to how it might actually perform.

II. Lengthening the Forcing Cone

Factories can naturally make their forcing cones as long as they would like, at little extra cost. By now, if it was a well-documented fact that longer forcing cones clearly improved patterns, it would be absurd for any relatively expensive competition clays gun to be produced without this fabulous feature. That has never been the case.

In the quest for better patterning shotguns, lengthening forcing cones ranks low on the list. Many of today's shotguns have hard-chrome lined bores, a fairly inexpensive process that makes cleaning easy, and also deters corrosion. To modify a forcing cone, what must happen is the removal of this hard-chrome lining. Now, the polish of the forcing cone becomes critical. A rough forcing cone picks up plastic and powder residue, and may make your patterns quickly go the wrong way.

A smooth forcing cone is important to consistent performance. A bad forcing cone job is far worse than no forcing cone work at all, and it sure is difficult to sand metal back on after modifications that hurt more than they help.

It may "help patterns up to 10%" as some claim, but anytime you hear the word "may" it should also tell you that "may not" is a possibility as well. Quality operations such as Kolar Arms of Racine, Wisconsin do extensive one-on-one work and in-house pattern testing for the individual gun (and person) with whom they are working.

As with expert rifle-smiths, expert shotgun-smiths "have their ways" and pet approaches. This is an area where science and art meet, and there are many ways to break a bird. I mention Kolar Arms, not to discredit any other custom shops, but because I believe they are as good as it gets. They can help get you where you want to be, provided you know what you are looking for. Kolar shows you the "before and after" results.

III. Porting Shotgun Barrels

It may be trendy, or less so as time goes by, but as a generality porting does nothing remarkable as to function. It does irritate the shooters next to you, and puts more holes in what was a perfectly good barrel. There isn't enough residual pressure at the port area in a shotgun to reasonably equate to a high-power rifle muzzle break, and the muzzle flip on a clays gun is nothing remotely like what you'll find on a pistol.

Less felt recoil can be found so much easier with a longer stock length, proper Limbsaver or Kick-Eez pad, and gun-fitting. No fixed breech gun of the same weight compares with the longer, broken-up recoil pulse of a gas operated gun. Sure, I've invested (wasted) my fair share on ported shotgun barrels. Perhaps the extra noise obfuscates the feeling of recoil, but if it offers anything substantial, my shoulder has not been able to detect it. Necessarily, on an Over / Under shotgun, ports cannot be placed where they would do the most good, as there is an upper barrel in the way. Since recoil is obviously of interest to so many folks, it is covered elsewhere on this web site.

IV. After Market Chokes

Just like rifles, we seem to have a tough time accepting that shotguns are all individuals, no two patterns are alike, and no two shells perform identically, either. After market choke tubes can and do improve patterns, and the 100% quality control built into the better after market tubes is a clear edge over many factory tubes.

It is an easy change to make, as long as we accept that all of the variables present prohibit global judgments as to how much, if any, patterns will be improved by after market tubes. In some guns after market choke tubes significantly improve patterns and can bag more birds for us, or break more clay, as the case may be. Other guns may show no improvement at all. Briley or Carlson's can help, and there are others who make good tubes as well. Patterning is requisite to find the combination that excels for any one shotgun and specific shell.

WPT ... (YAC) ... No Need to Thank me ....

 

Mudpack, You can thank WPT for the info you ask for. Did you remember where your statement came from? I would like to be able to read the original script. Roger C.

 

See post #50.
WPT's second post seems to support my statement as much or more than supporting your claim.

 

Back to the Toaster Roger, we tried ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I hope not

mw