Target Setting, Hoop and 50yd stake or Radar gun and angle finder?

I have only been shooting trap for six years. I have been at some gun clubs that have used the hoop and the 50 yard stake when setting targets. I know the rules say something about a calm wind and the 50 yard stake. I have been at other gun clubs that use a radar gun and an angle finder or smart level to set the angle of the plate that the target sets on when setting targets. I was shooting on a squad last week-end and the club was using the radar gun/angle finder method of setting the targets. When the squad that I was on was up to shoot. Several of the shooters on the squad thought that the targets were low and wanted them raised up. They were also falling about 10 yards short of the stake with a tail wind. Not a head wind a tail wind. The targets were raised and we shot that trap. Same thing at the next two traps, had the targets raised. Later I heard that the target setter, the club president, and another shooter were bad mouthing shooters on the squad that I was on. (They really should know what someone's wife looks like if you are going to talk crap about him), and she is sitting their watching us shoot. I thought that the targets were low and needed to be raised, but two other shooters on the squad are the ones who were being cussed about. One of the other shooters after hearing from his wife. Told me that he does not think he will ever come back to that gun club. The other shooter who is a member of that club claimed that he was not going to be shooting there as much as he has been because of the what was being said about the two shooters.
What is the best way of setting the targets?
Jim B.

 

Where is Olliedawg?

Dysinger once told me moving shooters back does nothing if we throw shorter targets. I would like to ask the OP if this was a registered shoot and PITA or ATA?

 

Anyone who knows anything about target setting already knows it's impossible to see something is 10 yards short while standing 75 yards away. The rest of us who've actually set targets know a tail wind will always force targets to fall short.

That is why targets are set in still air and distances are not changed when the wind blows-only elevations!

 

I hate hearing that squads get to vote on their preferred target setting. The new sport of trapshooting.

 

We don't get to vote? The OP implies we get to vote.

 

A squad of 19 yard shooters complains about the target height.
A squad of 27 yard shooters complains about the target height.

Which squad gets the trap reset?

 

Either method is acceptable, as long as the targets are correct.
Ole would be correct about the height and not the speed.

 

Gun and height stick would be my choice.

 

Agreed. The important thing is to set ALL traps to hit the same spot on the stick that day so they are consistant as well as speed with the radar gun. The 50 yard stake is a mere reference for a calm day and should no way trump the previous two mentioned.

 

Both get equal consideration. I will check a trap when ever requested for whom ever asked. I will not gaurantee I will make the requested change unless they have changed to be outside the legal limits on the stick. Shooters tend to put to much thought into what is happening to the target well after the hoop. Providing the target is level and right height at the stick all after is irrelevant.

 

It was a registered shoot. Personally I will shot at damn near anything that comes out of the house. As far as judging distance, years of archery hunting and working construction, I am a better judge of distance than most. It is pretty easy to see the targets falling way short of the 50 yard stake. The only comment I made about target speed was that they used a radar gun to set the targets, instead of how close they were getting to the stake. The targets were short of the stake before the wind started. We were shooting Singles when the other shooters on the squad asked to have the targets raised. Like I said above if it comes out of the house I will shoot it. If they are low or high, I will adjust my gun hold point accordingly.

Jim

 

I don't take it real kindly when the guys who set the targets in the first place ask for them to be re set when they walk up on the traps we have just shot ... I have seen this happen on many occasions and voiced my displeasure to no avail ... That to me is a form of cheating, I detest cheaters ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

None of the shooters on the squad were involved in setting the targets in the first place. I was on the squad and was not requesting that they be adjusted. I agreed with the other shooters that the targets looked low to me. But the other shooters on the squad wanted the targets raised. I would of shot them where they were.

Jim

 

I can see your point however, Are you saying the guys that set the targets (as shooters) do not have the same rights as you as a shooter that are outlined in the rule book to ask for a re-check?

As a person that sets the targets a lot and also am a shooter I would have no questions about asking for a re set or check. However, I would NOT be the one to set or check machine.

Do you think the guys working the shoot should not be eligible to shoot their own shoots?

 

Radar guns are a nice toy and work well over uneven terrain. It's unusual in many locations to have a level field out to the 50 yd. stake. If the field is not level the 50 yd. stake is useless and the radar gun shines. Since wind velocity is not a constant it's important to set targets to a stake in still air-evenings tend to be best. Then put a lock on the spring setting and threaten anyone touching it under any circumstances with severe bodily harm. The only adjustments needed again are elevation only. Knowledgeable target setters when confronted by the unknowing who've never set a trap but claim the targets are short or long should shrug their shoulders, enter the trap and give it a finger wave adjustment or call the individual an idiot-whatever they prefer!

 

Himark,
Never said anything about them being able to shoot or not shoot , said I do not like it if they set the targets and they do a re set on legal targets(didn't say that ) when they walk up on the same traps others have shot ... When I started shooting, once the first shot was fired the targets had to get pretty nasty before they would be re set ... I feel if its good enough for others then its damn sure good enough for the guys who set them in the first place ... I cannot even imagine how many targets I have set over the past 40 plus years and if I set them I damn sure shot them ... Guess you had to be there ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT,

I was not commenting I was serious about the question..."do you think they should shoot their own shoot?"

I personally will not shoot our own shoots anymore due to these very things and others.

I have to ask you if they were not the shoot mgmt and the next squad asked for a re-set would that bother you to?

 

Just to point out that I also agree with you on squads asking for a re-set after I am walking off the line but heck the rules are the rules.

 

I have been in the situation of not being able to shoot on occasion because nothing was going right that day, I do feel that Management has the right to shoot just as much as anyone else does ... I was talking specifically about the people who set the targets, not any other squads or other people or to accomidate changes that may of taken place ... That should also be limited to if by chance the targets in question are outside of the legal limits and not just because they are not to their liking ... I totally believe in accomidating the customers unless its to the point of getting rediculous, I follow the rules to the letter and have found that most others do also but then again once in awhile you get that "Special " someone ... There are good reasons to ask for a reset, those occasions are rare but do happen (wind changes etc) and go from there ... I do not argue the point, I just check them and reset them or not based on if they are legal and what I see ... I do not make a big deal out of it, but feel that everyone is entitled to be treated the same and am always prepared to do so ... I do not get involved in running shoots anymore but have offered my assistance on many occasions if needed to pull, score, set, judge,or what ever it takes to get it done ... By the way, nothing bothers me and I hope my doing or not doing something does not bother them ... Shut up and shoot ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I agree that shoot management should if conditions allow them to shoot at their shoot. I also agree that all targets that become illegal during the shoot should be reset and I said illegal not to be reset to sommeone's preference.
Sometimes someone from shoot management has to give the impression that targets are being reset for a shooter that does not know a legal target from an illegal one. This is that special shooter that we all have come across at one time or another who believes he knows but does not.

 

In 2003, the height settings were changed from 8 to 12 foot to 8 to 10 foot. I've asked why over the years and have never gotten an answer that makes much sense?

The current settings may be ideal for bluebird days but suck when mother nature intervenes. With either head or tail winds, the targets are less stable out far enough in order for the average shooter to deal with. Only adjusting the targets height does nothing to stabilize it at all. Target speed is the targets stabilizer but clubs won't change that portion of the rule but will willingly violate the height rule at will? Target height setting is probably the most violated rule on the fields today that I see. The top shooters will break their share of targets regardless of settings!

HAP

 

The people that took it out were not about sporting. They will not defend it as they can't. Another chapter in the dummification of our sport. A terrible chapter.

 

Sure more than a few regret it. Time for a few delegates to step up to the plate.

 

I use a pole and gun method...
once i have proper speed i go for height...
if wind/humidity/temperature change i will not allow changes unless a mechanical error happened.
MOTHER NATURE IS PART OF THE GAME.
that said i do know alot of clubs in area use laser level and stakes for setting targets. Consistent target settings are all we as shooters we can ask for.

 

Many would say consistent targets are what have destroyed the sport.

 

True, but as long as rules are as they are i have to follow them...
but i will not set them to suit a individuals taste.p

 

What if you are shooting over a lake? How do you set the targets?

 

Set them at proper height, and then use a good Radar Gun, and set targets to speed, that will take them the proper distance, this is done all the time at clubs w/un-even terrain
DLS

 

FG, I don't think consistent targets were bad for our game at all, however I do think easier target settings hasn't helped as some thought it would. Targets may be tough to catch up to or break yet they would be considered consistent.

True to a certain degree. Targets may be adjusted or changed if they become illegal. Your setting method is spot on.

HAP

 

True story about a small club in area..
Saturday one guy set machines at a non ATA club and shot with me on Sunday at ATA shoot....
Sunday another guy decided targets where to high so he lowered them...
Wednesday a third guy decided they where to fast.... so using a LOW POWER SPEED GUN HE GUNNED TARGETS and reduced speed. All the scores where bad, on a non ATA field that was set in #3 hole, with good height last night scores where backup to normal levels.
my point is to many hands on machines and a non knowledge of what targets SHOULD look like leads to issues that could push shooters away from smaller clubs.

 

Why is it when I see this method used the birds only go 47 yards? This has to be big dogs favorite method!

Should be 50 yards or crank 'er up!

 

In Wednesday night league i shoot my club has the only field that is on level ground. If your setting from uneven ground it takes some work to figure out WHERE TO START measurement for height. Last week the birds went 50yards in the air... because the ground was 10' below pad level.... if it had been set proper (to ata speed) they would have gone closer to 70 yards because of drop.