Why trapshooting is a dying sport or why it isn’t

A local sporting clays club will be hosting the Florida State shoot which was changed to be held in Dec--here's a listing of some of the prizes-K-80 shotgun, EZ GO Cart, Browning 725 & 10 Beretta auto loaders +++ $$$

And the the event is for 500 shooters--why are we still shooting trap?

 

The entry for the 200 target event is $258.98 not counting options. Plus new shells. How many trapshooters would pay that kind of entry fee?

 

500 shooters @ $258.98 = $129,490 entrance money. They can afford to buy some nice prizes for that cash. Might as well go to a live bird shoot.

 

Trapshooting isn’t dying in Ohio. And the ATA isn’t trapshooting. At best 1 of 8 targets are registered in Ohio. Maybe 635 can tell us where he or she lives.

Or is 635 so narrow minded to believe the ATA is the only way to participate in trapshooting?

 

If not for all of the little grass roots clubs that collect daily fees and promote new members on behalf of the ATA, the ATA would of died a long time ago ... Those in charge (ED, EC, and many on the BOD) have changed the ATA into a Cash Cow for the Chosen ones and the members were ignored over time for the longest time so many have walked away ... Ironically the other clay target venues seem to be at least holding their own, and many more trap targets are being shot but non registered because people have had their fill of the ATA's nonsense ... I have taken a ride up to the club on many occasions, there is no shortage of trap shooters present more times than not but you do not see them at Registered events ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I live in The Villages,Fl--the sporting clays club that is hosting the even t is 15 minutes from my house--I'm not a sporting clays shooter--the club promised to have 3 trap/skeet fields, up and running--still want--I only shoot trap @ Robinson Ranch & Imperial Polk

The name of the club is Blackjack Sporting Clays

 

635. How about you tell us why you guys can’t promote trapshooting in your state. Booming here in Ohio. You complain about entry fees. Strange....do you have to have entry fees in you area to shoot? A local club recently had 160 for a winter league shoot. Tell us more about your problems.

 

Florida trap shooting is IMHO, run by one club, the Silver Dollar-unlike Ohio I have to drive 100 miles roundtrip to my primary club and 150 miles roundtrip once a month to my secondary club--unlike Ohio--there are very few "real" clubs--they are businesses-In Fl its cheaper to shoot registered than practice @ a lot of clubs
When I used to go to Ohio to have Dennis DeVault build stocks & guns for me, I was totally envious of the amount clubs-I would say--you could spit and hit a club

Was amazed-when he told me the number of after work leagues

I've got about a month and a half till it gets too hot to shoot after 10AM

Used to love shooting in NC--all the clubs were clubs & every weekend you shot @ a different club & NC clubs fed great

Also, the shooters who know me, know that I've sponsored "the uncle Phil shoots", bought speakers & speaker systems for clubs in an effort to promote trap shooting, in NC &Fl

 

I wish there were still some left here in PA. When they went to 30 birds at $10.00 a bird the attendance dropped off and all the places we used to go to quit.

I paid $275.00 for the PA state sporting shoot and that was YEARS ago. It's all relative. The thing with Sporting, and IMO the reason guys like it better is that you can MISS MORE THAN ONE and still win.
Even when you aren't that good( me) you can win your class ( A )and do OK.
At the Zone shoot at Nemacolin years ago I had an 83 and an 86
Well, that just about sucked, I said standing in front of the scoreboard. They next thing I know one of my pals is slapping my back and congratulated me on winning A class. Funny joke right?
A nice large and engraved crystal ice bucket and right around $600.00
A freaking 169 and you win A class?
That's one of the reasons guys like it better than "registered" Trap, I think.

 

There is a young Al American trapshooter, who got a college shooting scholarship,he told me its not too hard to make hundreds of dollars every weekend in sporting clays

 

So then we agree Florida is failing to promote trapshooting. That is your narrow focus. But yet you generalized. Kinda silly right? We have shoots and leagues bigger than that crap you call grands in the south.

And we agree now that the ATA is only a teeny bit of the targets thrown. Oh well. Consider the source.

 

You're so right did not set foot in the Silver Dollar for the S.Grand, I'm not chasing All American points, theses shoots like the Grand are a sucker bet-pay $36.00 and more for 100 targets, while I can pay $28.00 for the first 100 and $22.00 for subsequent 100's

and people who know me ,all I care about is a level playing field, comfort and convenience--which are almost impossible to achieve in Fl

 

635. You didn’t show how trapshooting is dying!!!

Thus far you have only whined about the ATA gouging you. Is that all you have?

 

The ATA isn't goughing me, they don't have enough close shooting in Fl-- can't expect to shoot well, if u have to spend many hours to get to a shoot

 

635. So what do you base your statement on that trapshooting is dying? Nothing huh? It’s your thread!

 

OK,

I have no dogs in this race, but want to bring some facts to the table in this discussion.

Here are some "facts" on where the prizes come from, from an article from the online news, July 24th, 2019, Villages news,com.

IN Part:

Sumter County commissioners on Tuesday approved tourism grants for the 2019-2020 fiscal year.

Commissioners approved a $75,000 grant for the Blackjack Sporting Clays for the Florida Sporting Clays Association state championship event, a shooting competition, scheduled next April at Sumterville. Another $50,000 grant also was awarded to the group for its Blackjack Open event.

Quote: The money comes from the county’s Tourism Development Tax, and the grants were recommended by the Sumter County Tourism Council. End quote

So, it isn't all paid for by the shooters.

I attend many meetings around The Villages, and I try to keep up on the Facts.

People who know me around these parts know that I sit back, keep my mouth shut, and take these all in. This is how to learn what is really going on.

Who knows, IF only some trap clubs would make applications to their tourism committees perhaps they could get some grant money also.

 

Well there ya go.

All the ata needs to make that shoot at that place in ILLnews "grand" again is to get the sparta tourism department to kick in with a grant for about $75,000.000

No problem. They should have thought of that 14 YEARS ago.

You put LG in charge of the money and he can decide how to split up the $65,000.000

 

635G. I will ask again. What numbers do you have that shows the sport is dying? Not ATA. You started the thread. It is your title.

 

I will say that Fl trap shooting is dying, the owner of Robinson Ranch, said trap shooting is down 25%, it been replaced by crazy quail, FITASC & 5 stand--also I know people who used to shoot trap consistently 2 times a week, non ATA are now shooting @ Blackjack Sporting Clays--go to the BlackJack Sporting Clays Website & look @ their events--The original name of the Villages club was Villages Trap & Skeet--two years ago the name was changed & Sporting Clays was added and the club's growth has been exponential

 

Florida Trapshooting is dying? That is a big difference isn’t it? And then you correct yourself by implying it is just your area of Florida.

Bottom line is 635 you have no numbers about the state of Florida and none about other states. Only numbers about registered shooting at one club near you.

I hope your future posts will have a little information to support the title. I am not counting on it.

 

I don't have numbers, all I know the Fl chain shoot has gone away and I been to several clubs , and it referring to ATA, you can't get a punch in Fl without a 96, very few clubs have 15 shooters, the other week RR held a marathon & had zero shooters on some days- can't get 3 shooters to register targets--meanwhile Blackjack Sporting Clay club threw 4 million targets last year--that is the only # I have

 

Ahhh.....there it is. A confession of ignorance. You think the registered shooting is down so trapshooting must be down. And in your narrow minded world that is logical since you understand so little about the sport.

You could have said registered shooting is down in my area. That would have been true.

And you could have just whined the Mississippi whine “ I can’t find easy yardage” since we cant find enough shooters. (We lowered it to 15 shooters for you clowns, Mississippi lobby)

Advice.....next time have a little information to back up your topic.

 

Blackjack threw 4 million targets last year. That's like 11,000 targets a day. Just saying.

 

You could have just called BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JMO

 

It could happen.

All you need are three guys like we had here in PA and WV a few years ago. Now those boys could jack up the number of targets thrown at a club.

 

The topic is an interesting one. I think the question becomes one of how to substantiate what "dying" and conversely "not dying or thriving" means.

How do we answer the following? (year vs year and multi year trend line)

1. New (ATA membership) recruitment. This is public info eh?
2. New non ATA shooter recruitment.
3. Amount of registered targets shot per year ATA.
4. Non registered targets shot per year.

I don't know how to quantify non ATA shooting. Whats Sporting Clays numbers look like compared to trap and skeet?

With out an intelligent way to measure (and I'm pretty thick) how can one argue whether something is dying or thriving outside of ones subjective opinion? Vendor sales numbers? I dunno.

All else is just wizzing in the wind.

Wish I could add something to the argument that would help clarify which direction the sport of trap is heading.

 

The sport of Trap shooting is not dying. The ata, based on past membership and attendance numbers, would be considered already dead.

If you want to take a look at "whizzing in the wind" all you have to do is look up the past attendance numbers for what used to be THE biggest event of the year, the GAH event. The event that was the reason all the local clubs held registered shoots. So you could get enough targets and competition practice to attend the GRAND. ( When it was the GRAND) The reason some of us spent every cent we had to shoot and be ready to stay a week at the Grand.

The location of that place in ILLnews sucks so people don't shoot "registered" targets like they used to. Why bother? The four people that live close to the place can try to make it sound like it is still the "greatest shoot and the best facility on earth" but they are just

Whizzing in the wind!

Hell, a couple of them NEVER EVEN WENT THERE but boy oh boy, than sure can tell us how great it is.

A couple quarter wits that put together equal a half wit and two that don't even measure up to a quarter wit.

JMO you know.....

 

May not be d

May not be dying but sure as Hell slowing down

 

The slow and painful death of trapshooting actually started around 20 years ago, the ATA started making changes that did not sit well with the Members ( those that supported) and has been in a decline ever since ... The EC , and many on the BOD sat back and watched as the game faded away rather than try to stop the decline with some incentives and promotions ... The ultimate mistake was to re locate to a place that did not and does not to this day have facilities to satisfy the needs of the shooter and their family's ... The ATA was given notice by the membership prior to the move but they made it any way ... They tried to hang onto the old saying "Build it and they will come" , that in itself bit them right in their ass because the majority of shooters did not come and still have no desire and most likely never will (this can be verified by the attendance records ) even though it still carries the name "Grand" there is nothing grand about it ... There are a few who talk about how great the grand is, obviously never attended when it was "Great" and an event that shooters planned and made arrangements to attend on an annual basis, because it was "The Grand " ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

In 1977 our local trap league had 830 shooters and in 2019 we finished with 465. So, for those of us who participated in trapshooting over 50 years we can safely say-yes-trapshooting is slowly dying. Most of the local shoots once normally had around 40 squads are now down to 18. Attendance at the PA State shoot is down nearly 40% in the championship events in 10 years. Some people get excited with youth trapshooting numbers but most of us with experience already know the day that mommy and daddy stop paying the party is over. So why is it dying, the reasons are many and most have been discussed ad-nauseum. It really won't mean much to most of us as many of will be dead in 10 years and the rest no longer participating.

 

Talking about holding the grand in the middle of shits creek, if Leo was closer to a real medical facility he might have survived

with a stroke the first 30 minutes are critical--he might have lived if the grand was
still in Vandalia

OK guys flame on

 

We don't know all the "why, how long, and what if " details of Leo's passing but you are correct on your point about that place being shit creek.

The ata is definitely up that creek, and WITHOUT A PADDLE.

 

That place is in the middle of f--n nowhere, why would anyone with their head together go shoot in the middle of no where-

could build a great trap range in the the middle of a desert--perfect sky background, but shooting is only part of the shooting experience

 

The ATA could make it if....

They could capture the shooters in Ohio and PA that are not shooting registered. And they are shooting.

They could keep some of the SCTP shooters that find the sport either boring or see there aren't any monies to be won.

They could fix the handicap system.

There was transparency...….and don't give me the BS that Shaw is there. That ship sank.

Trapshooting is flourishing. There are two leagues in my area that have around 200 members each.

 

I find it really difficult to believe that moving the Grad had any significant impact on the sport considering the wealth of other considerations that discourage registered shooting. And fixing those things is an obvious non-starter so the #'s will likely continue to fall regardless of whether non-registered trap flourishes or not.
Over the last 30yrs that I've been involved with clay target sports I have known maybe five people who went to the Grand in the grand old days. Few could afford it and fewer were concerned with other than local sorta registered targets. It would be interesting to know how many people that went to the Calif State Shoot in say 1995 went to the Grand - ever?

 

The thing with Sporting, and IMO the reason guys like it better is that the targets are so challenging that no one is gonna shoot a perfect score and the sporting shooters know it and don't care!!! With the targets different every day and nobody having a lock on the system what you shoot that day tells you how good you were compared to the other shooters that day. The GAME is about doing your best and not whining about how its gonna look on the (meaningless) Holy Average Card

 

I don't know about California and the number of people that went but I can tell you that the number from PA was pretty good. I started in 1971 and joined the ata in 1976.

The number from my club alone would usually be around, 30 give or take a couple. Now imagine that there were 5 other clubs within 45 minutes of ours that also had 900-1000 members and they had just as many or more that went.

Then imagine that there were 10 other clubs within 45 minutes of ours that were smaller and had 5 or 10 people make the trip.
And THAT is just in my small corner of SW PA. You could walk around the grounds at Vandalia when it WAS the GRAND and see 200 people that you knew either from your own club or any of the others in the area. There were weekend shoots at all these clubs so you could get enough targets to go to Vandalia. I don't know the number of clubs in the rest of PA but I'm pretty sure there WERE quite a few.

I know ONE club, Ruffsdale, that still shoots "registered" targets during the year. The rest of the clubs? They quit.

Why would you hold a shoot if no one was going to show up? They didn't show up because they had no plans of going to the grand. It sure wasn't a coincidence that the numbers dropped after the move.

"difficult to believe that moving the Grad had any significant impact on the sport"

IMO I think it did.

You could probably research the number of shooters from each state before and after "the move".

 

There is a local one trap club not that far from me that has a youth trap team. The team has 55 shooters. The team has to go to a larger club with 5 traps to be able to have practice. The larger club was happy to have them. Funny thing to me was last month at the end of Feb the team had a fund raiser. There were 96 shooters. The fund raiser was shot at a sporting clays course. Not the first time a trap team did this.

 

Semperfi, Were you ever at Vandalia? Have you ever gone to Sparta? If you can answer YES to both of my questions then you should make a comparison as to the facilities that were around the area.
The members said when poled, DO NOT MOVE TO ILL. . The ec made the move anyway, but that was only one of the dumb moves they have made. They lost the respect of the members, because they are smarter than we are. You can now see how that worked out.
There was hanky-panky pulled with the purchasing of the ATA building and also with the equipment purchases. The Hall-of Fame building was also a rip off of the members donations. They H.O.F. committee knew the building would be owned by the state of Ill. and never told the founding members.
Any time the people in charge lose the respect of the members through ignoring the wishes of the members, the organization is in deep do-do and the ATA is headed for the outhouse, compared to what it was in the past.
Roger C.

 

Did anyone read the above post by Shamus?

A kids TRAP team decides to hold a FUNDraiser at a SPORTING CLAYS course.

96 PAYING entries.

That right there will tell you how much faith they have using a Trap event to raise money.

Edit: I almost forgot. That Sporting Clays club that held the shoot for the kids TRAP team?

They have their own kids Sporting team they support.

 

Trap is dying because all the trapshooters have died. I know 5 times as many dead trapshooters as I do live ones. Not LOL.
Everything changes. 30 years ago you couldn't find an empty lane at the bowling alley, and you couldn't get on a softball team because they didn't have enough fields. Now they are bulldozing both of em. 1/3 of the golf courses in this area have closed up in the last 5 years.

 

Hello Elsie,
Almost 3 months since we heard from you last. I hope everything is good.

 

Last year they had as many participants at the SCTP Championships at the CC as they did Sparta. 10 more years.

The ATA doesn’t define trapshooting. And the sport isn’t just for old farts.

 

Flyersarebest, everything is a okay. Thanks for asking. I've been reading the posts but haven't had much to say for the last few months.

The Governor of Indiana issued a - "stay at home" order that is supposed to start tonight and last for the next two weeks. My whole life I always wanted somebody to tell me to do that - stay at home and sit in front of the TV, and drink beer and eat popcorn and do nothing. LOL Now I got a governor telling me to do that and it isn't nearly as much fun as I anticipated it to be. Be careful what you wish for it might come true. LOL

 

Elsie, There are still a lot of trap shooters, they are just not shooting registered targets. It is not the costs, sporting clays are more expensive than trap. Registered trap has lost is alure. Easy targets, short doubles, no money in handicap coupled with all the money that is still there has been moved to the high gun purses.
The ATA has catered to the top 5% or less of the shooters, and the motor home folks. Average Joe shooter has been ignored for the last 15+ years, so he now stays home and shoots fun and games. Roger C.

 

Started shooting trap in the mid 80's as a broke college student. Grew up shooting skeet (father military vet and competed for the army in Europe on their skeet team - so he introduced his sons to the sport). Well, trap consumed me, League shoot on monday's, practice weds and registered on the weekend. Studies suffered, Mec 600 screwed to the kitchen table next to my typewriter, wood boxes with AA sorted by firings and paper Feds on the floor. . My first trip to Vandalia was Holy Shit Gladys moment as soon as I saw the mile! I shot an old 870 TC, I was like a kid in the candy store...Euro try guns that I could take to the practice trap,...I was in glory. Watched Bonillas, Ohl(sic), the pig farmer and 2 industry vets put on a show from the back fence. Damn, Bonillas had such a smooth mount and fast break. What a show. I believe even one of the founders of this site went down with me for a weekend of shooting for a couple of years. What a venue. It's a real shame the voted representatives of the ATA got lost and somehow failed to follow their obligation to represent the views and wishes of their constituents. Same old story, if you loose focus of what your customer wants the curve starts downhill.

Back to the discussion, as has been said in this thread and elsewhere on the site, perhaps evolutionary principles are at work and the ATA will fade away.

Couldn't have made a more appropriate analogy than Elsie's quote.

Family Guy says trap shooting is flourishing in his region. I believe him! (even if he does have multiple personalities)

 

Flourishing compared to what/when?

 

I would only suggest that what you say prolly applies to East of the Mississippi but not much of anywhere else. The Grand was from a distance just a big local shoot with a few motorhome guys showing up too. I don't recall knowing anyone that was waiting with bated breath for the Grand tho way many were State Shoot guys even tho the weather was never anything but hellish
The state of the ATA doesn't seem to reflect the state of shotgun sports in general best as I can tell and the ATA's troubles are for me easily identified and internal. and fortunately of no consequence to my well-being

all JMO of course as always

 

SEMPERFI, I'm from west of the Mississippi and I have attended 40 grand Americans. If you can term a shoot with 5000 shooters in one event a local shoot, what would you call a gala event? The shooters that attended the grand were the true competitors not just weekend warriors. THEY WERE THERE TO WIN, NOT JUST TO COMPETE.When you won at the old grand you beat the best. It has morphed into feel good shoot. Roger C.

 

"The Grand was from a distance just a big local shoot with a few motorhome guys showing up too."

Yeah, if you lived on another planet. Just look at some of the dumb things people say on the "ata only" site.

Oh, it was TOO CROWDED. Vandalia was just too crowded with all those people there. sparta is much better because you don't have to contend with the BIG CROWDS.

Well, I have to agree with them on that point. You sure as hell don't have to deal with any big crowds. With the pathetic numbers that have showed up over the last 14 YEARS I would say not even a little crowd. Now I l know 5000 was not the
norm for the BIG DAY but TWICE as many as they have now is NOT a "local" shoot.

Yep, "ata only".

You would have to have an IQ of 44 or be flying with the bomb bay open to think that place in ILLnews is the "grand".

You can say that all you like but it doesn't make it true.



EDIT: You know what? After writing all that the more I thought about it you just might be right. The Grand in VANDALIA was a local shoot. Local, as in located, enough to have 3500-4000 shooters year in and year out for the BIG DAY.

1,978 last year for Event 24? Right, "ata only".

 

It would be fascinating to know state by state just where the shooters came from for Vandalia. Fortunately I have no access to that data so feel no compulsion to explore that hahaha

 

Gipson would say you are going in a "fascinating" direction.

 

Fanasstastic Direction to ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

With COVID-19 The nstreets of Athens, Ohio are almost bare, churches are closed, senior Ctr closed, no groups of 10 allowed, my Euchre Group was shut down, Two trap clubs shut down all related to Corona virus, and will be for 2 more months, maybe longer.

GB...………………………….DLS

 

Gipson ? ? ?

 

I would not worry about pre squading for the Buckeye in May.

 

Sorry to say you are more than likely correct.
From reports just on the news shows the medical community feels we aren’t even close to the worst of it.

 

Out in SE Penna. there is a lot of trapshooting, S/C, Skeet and 5-stand to boot. Many new trap shooters. Sporting Clays is and will continue to have a big following. Bottom line it is more social. More interactive. Nature of the game, it is what it is. My shooting buddies and I shoot a lot of sporting clays but at heart we are trapshooters and are heart is in that more. Shoot trap on a regular basis. I know and realize that the majority of you guys have your heart and soul in ATA and what the present state of what that is. You are to be commended. I can see the commitment of older and newer shooter to being committed to shooting trap but not going the route to shoot ATA. I’m not a young guy, and in the full Scheme of things it makes no difference. I have two grandsons that I’m exposing them to the shooting sports. My thought are expose them to all of it and see where they like to fit into. I know both will be different in what they like. My one son-in-law has just started shooting with me some. He’s shot with my buddies and I recently and we have exposed him to it all trap, skeet, sporting, wobble, wildcat, 5-stand, and much to my surprise he enjoys trap the most. It did take me by surprise. I think you guys may be overthinking it some. Things work in cycles. Highs and lows. Maybe the ATA just has to come up with better incentives for new younger shooters.

 

Well put sir !