How Much Did The Sparta Facility Cost To Build ??

Does anyone know approximately how much the Sparta facility cost to construct? You look at the place on Google Earth and it's unbelievably huge! I couldn't even begin to count the trap fields.

A single Pat Trap costs $8,500.00. Multiply that times however many fields they have. Then imagine how many targets it takes to fill every machine. (540 per machine). I won't even get into the land and building costs, concrete for the fields, electricity, plumbing, etc.

I just wondered how much the ATA has sunk into that place?

 

The state of Illinois says about $29M. The land was donated.

 

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Details
State Illinois
County Randolph
Type Farmland;Recreational;Residential
Hunting Whitetail Deer;Small Game Hunting;Waterfowl;Wild Turkey
Water Features Fishing;Boating
Access Public road access;Trails throughout
Utilities Electric;Water
Price $1,053,600
Price/Acre $2,400
Surveyed Acreage 439.00
Farming Operation Cash Rent
Township T4S R6W
Section Number Sec4,5,9,10

Not for sure if this is all of the land but is part of it and it was not donated, was sold by Peabody Coal (strip mined property) ... The State of Illinois claimed the facility once completed would be at a total cost of Approx 50 Million (according to the States web site, (never updated) ) , to date the State has invested 25/29 million depending on what day of the week it is ... The City of Sparta took out bonds to get their share of the money for utilities and roads (never was a final amount posted ) ... The State of Illinois web site stated a total investment to date of approx 29 million, this was inclusive of the monies put up by the City of Sparta (has not been updated for almost 3 years ) ... The ATA donated a building to the State of Illinois that is now the ATA/ HOF which cost over 2 millions dollars, there is still a balance owed by the HOF on said building ... The Martins Donated 1 million dollars toward the HOF Barn building, the ATA donated $250,000 (members money) ... The State of Illinois is in deep financial trouble so they are not doing the repairs (up keep), its any bodies guess who is ... WPT ... (YAC) ...


The Pat Traps were purchased by the ATA with money that was collected on each entry that was supposed to be used for the purchase of a new home grounds for the Association (replacing Vandalia, Ohio) .... The ATA (members) owns the machines and the State is supposed to maintain them ... The members where not made aware of that transaction until it was over and done with ...

 

Thanks!

 

See Section 9, page 4 of the HOF/IDNR Lease Agreement. It'll make you smile.

 

Right off the top of my head I could think of a better use of that property.

 

And the lemmings keep on paying for the repairs and maintenance of and the mortgage for at livery stable they don't even
own. What a bunch of whipped suckers.

Cuckold, n. - the husband of an unfaithful wife.

 

Word was that there were several Traps missing after the move.

Was that issue ever resolved ?

 

Rumor has it there were 8 traps unaccounted for when they were purchased, the invoice reflected the total number of traps being delivered and 8 were unaccounted for doing a physical count .... No body knows anything, saw anything, or admit to anything which seems to be pretty much the way it is and has been for the past 15 plus years ... The Cash Cow is alive and well ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The 8 traps went to two different clubs in the south east. Roger C.

 

Who was the vendor? Midnight Trap Supply? Did the two clubs get a "5 finger discount?"

 

It's a much better shooting facility than Vandalia ever was. You can't change history so let's move on and make new history at Sparta, and yes, I have shot both facilities. I'm also an Ohio native.

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This user has a Colorado IP address.....admin

 

Flywheel,
Nothing can save Sparta as an ideal location for the home of trap shooting. Sad but true. The present and past leaders of the ATA lost the respect of the trap shooting community. I do not think they have the knowledge to regain what they have lost. Not in our life times.
The Cardinal Center is the premium shooting facility in this or any other location in the world. They consider shooters and shooting organizations in each and every move they make to improve the facility. Put a trip to the C.C. on your bucket list, i'm sure you will be impressed with the location and facilities surrounding the grounds. It is shooter and family oriented for all to enjoy. Roger C.

 

The WSRC can be compared to opening a restaurant in the Middle east that only serves Bacon or pork in any form, you are going to go broke ... The Facility as nice as it is was built in the wrong location, the attendance records of the past 14 years shows that the business established is not and never will be what was expected or anticipated in any way ... Lipstick on a Pig and it is still a Pig ... The State of Illinois was sold a bill of goods by the ATA, told over 100,000 shooters and visitors frequented the grand when it was in Vandalia and we all know that is a bunch of BS ... The facility has not covered its own annual operating expenses from the first year it opened and that goes on to date ... It would be cheaper for the State of Illinois to Bull doze it, take the loss and move on ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

The grounds in Vandalia were out dated but still could and would draw a crowd, there was something about it that just cannot be duplicated not then, not now, not ever ...

 

Colorado now but born and raised in Ohio and shot a lot of clubs in the western half of the state including the Grand about a dozen times. Ended up in Colorado thanks to the US Air Force.

 

Did you shoot the RT. 58 gun club? Roger C

 

Calling bullshit here!

 

Sorry, never heard of that one. My trapshooting started in the mid 50s when a 10 bird practice cost .40 cents. My Dad and I couldn't afford much and didn't do much traveling but we sure had a lot of fun.

 

Pretty quick on the trigger for someone that has no idea what he's talking about. FYI I started as a high school kid and my closes club was the Adams Conservation Club in Holland Ohio in the mid 50s. It's still in operation today. Also shot at Findlay, ( Jaqua's ), Middleton, Troy, and Cardinal Center several times. Shot the Grand at Vandalia in 1977,1978.1980, 1982,1983,1988, 1994,1995, 1996, 1997, and 2003. My only trip to Sparta, so far, was 2014.

 

I would agree with Flywheel on this one Jim, a little "quick on the trigger".

 

A name to put into a search would confirm those dates.

 

So you only shot at Sparta once? Never again? And you want us to support that place? Doubling down on the bullshit.

 

Being 77 years old has cut down on my traveling a bit. Maybe I'll make Sparta this year, I sure would like to.

 

I was born in Ohio. The hospital adoption papers show Mahoning County but a few days later I was home in Allegheny County PA. been here ever since.

Where someone lives now or where they were born really has no BEARING on anything. If I though that I would be a NUT.

It's true that the GRAND at VANDALIA is gone but that doesn't mean that place in ILLnews is "better". If it was better the attendance wouldn't be so pathetic.

What can't be changed is the amount of money that went into that White elephant. Stepping back and just looking at it as a business decision that was supposed to make the grand better one would say it was a failure. Sad really, such a waste.

Great for the 4 or 5 Kool Aid drinkers that live in the neighborhood and didn't join the ata until the place opened but that's about it.

 

You are the one who called "bullshit." The burden of proof is on you. If you can't prove it, then you owe Flywheel an apology.

Prove it!

 

Information on the cost.

​

 

I happen to live in northern Illinois, don't hold it against me. I love Sparta, yes it's in the middle of nowhere, but the facilities and fields are amazing!!! My 13 and 16 year old daughters grew up going to Sparta and it's the highlight of their year, especially the 16 year old. She's always trying to figure out how to shoot more and stay longer.

I'm now bringing my 3 and 6 year through the same traditions.

 

The total cost of the facility 15 years ago was estimated to be at or about 50 Million dollars upon completion ... The State of Illinois according to the States web site (then) felt it would take approx 10 years to complete as funding became available, based on the income generated by the facility and in the General area in and around Sparta, Ill ... The facility has never been deemed as completed because a lot of prep work was not done because it was a rush, rush job to get it up and running ... The roads never had a compacted base put down and who knows what else never got done but the State of Illinois web site at one time claimed to have invested between 25 and 30 million dollars (depending on what site ) to make it ready to use while not being completed ... The State of Illinois figured out right quick the place was not going to turn a profit as anticipated and actually added to the States (deficit) indebtedness from the start ... It generated 1.2 million and the cost to operate and maintain it at the time was set at $3 million by the state so the deficit grew by 1.8 million and counting since (taking into consideration cost of living etc ) I have no idea what the cost is in today's money ... It may of been a Jewel but according to some people who have been there the place is deteriorating rapidly due to lack of $$$$$ to maintain it ... Time will tell and then we will all know ...WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Gee....not much from Flywheel. Hmmmm. What could that mean?

 

Could mean I'm tired of being insulted for liking Sparta. My post said, "Sparta is a better shooting facility than Vandalia ever was" didn't say anything about the politics of Sparta, or the location, or the financial wisdom of the move or who did what to who. The facility was the only thing I was talking about.

 

Gee....not much from Jim. Hmmmm. What could that mean?

 

flywheel, You are entitled to your opinions on this site, you may be diced for stating them, but that goes with the territory. do not let you feelings be hurt. Roger C.

 

flywheel ,
You know what they say about opinions and assholes right (everybody has one) ... ? I have never fired a shot at the WSRC in Sparta, Ill, have no desire but I did enjoy the facility in Vandalia on multiple occasions and enjoyed every moment of being there, crowds and all ... I did visit Sparta before anyone ever thought about moving or building a facility there with a Buddy who's family lived in Sparta, found it to be a nice place to visit but not a place I would like to live or travel to so I can attend a shoot there ... Different stokes for different folks, so the story goes ... If you like it enjoy but don't be surprised that not everyone does ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I saw where one guy called BS

You told him that was a rush to judgement since he didn't know you

I agreed with you that is WAS quick on the trigger

Another member admonished him and said he owed you an apology

Please! You are tired of being insulted?

 

Okay.... doubling down again on me calling bullshit! I have been wrong before but not always. Sorry the bs word hurts your feelings flywheel. But bs is bs.

No one that shot at Vandalia for 14 years thinks Sparta is better. I am calling bs on your whole story. You didn’t shoot at Vandalia all those years and then only shot at Sparta once. LOL. You could give that name to a mod. They could look up that record. Or you could say it publicly. I certainly will admit I am wrong....but I am not. Bullshit is what bullshit is.

 

I barely hit the surface at Vandalia, shot there maybe 3 times, all towards the end. Comparing the two is near impossible for me...

I miss the proximity more than anything, roll out of bed and be there in a few. Again though, my exposure is minimal and thus my conclusions not worth much. It's fair to say, have really ever known Sparta...

My kids look at me sideways when I talk about Vandalia. Can't help but wonder if they'll be remiss if / when Sparta vanishes and the Grand moves elsewhere???

 

I think you have to define the term “better” in order to make a comparison don’t we? And when we argue “better/worse” we have to look at everything involved, not just what fits our personal argument. Better for me was shooting there first time and discovering I could drive to and park exactly behind my bank of traps with little to no pre planning. First time I shot I registered and had 45 minutes to get to my banK and prepare. Still drove there and parked easily behind the bank. Better was finding that the spacing between traps was huge. Little interference from shooters on the next traps, and no overlap of angle targets. Better was the background. I loved shooting into a blue sky (most banks) with no airplanes in the background. Worse? Near zero close accommodations unless I wanted to camp. Not for me....Worse? The feeling of being out in the middle of nowhere, my wife being a non shooter and not having alternate activities to enjoy easily. Worse? Vendor buildings on the West end and Tent City vendors on the East...small inconvenience with the ability to drive there but still..... Worse? Losing the history of Vandalia...I loved that place because like most I HATE change! But, when it comes down to it, Vandalia and the old home grounds were going away. We were dislodged. And with 20+ years of knowledge that it “could and more likely than not WOULD happen, the ATA had no exit strategy. That left few choices and a split membership with a lot of anger on both sides of the split. And that is the “worst” thing of all for me....... As the old saying goes: “can’t we all just get along?”

 

Bobby,
The facts remain that most everything is subjective on an individual basis ... The frustration ( anger) subsided a long time ago so the only thing that really can be taken into account are the actual number of people who attend compared to the number of people who used to attend in Vandalia, to get the bottom line ... The business that is and has been established at the WSRC over the past 14 + years will probably not get much, if any better in the future no matter how great the facility is in some peoples eyes ...

Fact is: Many people ( shooters ) have turned to other shooting venues (facility's) that have places to stay in the general area to get the thrills that used to exist in attending the Grand when it was in fact "GRAND" even with all of the draw backs and congestion ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I don't know about the rest of you but I NEVER missed a target because of an airplane.

Missed because I was thinking of something else or just Lollygagging and oopsed one or two but never because of either the background or a jet.
That dog won't hunt!

I want to know what the big friggin deal is about having to park your car and walk, or take the tractor, to your starting trap.
AND, I for one liked it better when you moved 10 traps or even 4.

What's the rush? When you are shooting the entire program for a week or ten days you aren't going anywhere. All the bank system did was make it faster to get more people through and make more money.

It's always about the money. Except now there isn't any on the winning side of it.

 

Glad you know more about my life than I do. Your response illustrates what it is like to try to have an intelligent discussion with an unarmed man.

 

Flywheel...why argue right? You know more about you. Tell a mod or post the name we can ref those dates. Don’t feel bad about being unarmed.

 

So you want me to prove that you aren't a flaming a**hole? I don't think I have enough time or resources to do that.

 

Give it up flywheel. You got called out on your fibs. Sucks to be you.

You don’t have the time?????? Lol.