ALERT - Jack & Cardinal Center Bail out too good for ATA !?

My new friend and another in the trench says this proposal from Jack Fishburn bails out the ATA. But some may have a problem with it. ($$$). It goes so far as to be unconscionable and forgiving on Jack’s part. This may put some in the ATA in a bind.

Biggest story since 5,000 shot in Vandalia. But it may be moot.

I report. You decide.
Merlo out.

 

Never say never!

 

Like I said before, the boys running the circus will never admit they screwed up and will DO whatever and SPEND whatever it takes to keep that shoot in ILLnews. If that "real property" Pull2012 gang is still around there AIN"T NO WAY they would ever sign off on it.

The state might shudder that place again, for good this time, and that would be the only way that shoot does not stay there. GOOD, keep it there, they deserve it.

I applaud Mr. Fishburn if he offered his help but I don't see it happening.

BTW, nice way to travel huh?

You Kool-Aid drinkers better hope the good old boys club doesn't get any ideas after seeing that picture. Ha, I can see the $1.00 extra fee now to pay for the rental and the fuel.

I know, "big shots fly in rented jet to satellite grands and the GAH." SO WHAT ​

 

"This may put some in the ATA in a bind."

 

"This may put some in the ATA in a bind."

Funny, those soldiers don't look like spartans

 

Fishburn is a smart businessman with deep pockets. I kinda think if there's money to be made he's in Why not own the entire business?

 

Here's one plausible scenario:he offers them a FAIR and EQUITABLE solution to the BIGGER problem. They tell him to pound sand. Being the gentleman he is, he has, in effect, washed his hands of the filth. He can now, in good conscience, light 'em up and smoke 'em. On the other hand, his loyalty to the SPORT may be the driving dynamic. It is, however, inconceivable that he would ever just simply withdraw in the face of the enemy.

 

Rule #1 in business-expand, improve or whither at the vine.

 

The offered deal is too good for Gibson to accept, no kick backs from a Jack Fishburn run organization. Too good for the EC to refuse. Makes good soap opera on what the EC and BOD are going to do come the delegate meeting, if they ever get to hear the details.

I was st the HOF MUSEUM meeting with the then Hof board when they turned down Jack last time he went to Sparta and offered a bail out and I bet the same thing happens this time.

 

Brad, If they refuse they will be driving the last nail in the coffin of the ATA. Maybe this is a good time to start a new association, with people that know how to operate a growing business. The members better keep an eye on the investments. To make sure they do not vanish. Make sure no one finds another building to buy. Roger C.

 

"if they ever get to hear the details."

 

Joe, What was offered to the EC by Jack? Roger C.

 

I'd think the whole ATA should know after the annual board meeting, if not then I'll tell all I know.

 

The question here is "who invited who".

 

Didn't I see somewhere that Gipson had been spending some time at shoots at CC this year ?

Perhaps he was buttering Mr. Fishburn up ?

Brad, I would like to agree with you BUTTTTT, I suspect we will be on that dreaded NEED TO KNOW BASIS.

 

Wait a minute !!!

Have we not heard time and time again that everything is going Wonderful at Sparta, and the ATA ???????

What the heck would this be all about ?

 

Rumor is they know that the plug is going to be pulled on the Sparta shooting center. I under stand the meeting was requested by Gipson. Either way they decide, what is going to happen the the $18,000,000.00 + INVESTMENTS.
Roger C.

 

I don’t see “Mr Free Target Gipson” liking this one. I hear this will impact his incentive plan. Could be wrong. Not that I give a rat. Keep Gipson in Sparta. And his office.

 

If there is any truth to this,I'm sure PULL LLC is out looking for property to sell to the ATA.

 

Delegates are fast asleep in the valley of "Blind Trust". I look for the E.C. and E.D. to remain silent on their effort to secure a contingency location to hold the Grand American. They didn't tell the Board of Directors about their offer of free targets to the SCTP if they returned to Sparta and I doubt they have plans to inform them about their request for the Cardinal Center to submit a proposal.

Was the BOD informed that 2012 PULL LLC, the company who bought the ATA office building days prior to leasing it to the ATA was formed by a sitting Vice President?

Was the BOD told the ATA's $250,000 donation to the Trapshooting Hall of Fame was actually for a Museum & Office to be owned by the Illinois DNR?

Pay attention Delegates. Don't be a mushroom. Ask questions. You're intentionally being kept in the dark and all of you seem to like it that way. Act like a leader or step down. The ATA membership and the organization itself, needs Delegates with integrity, intelligence and balls. (Pardon me, I should have said guts)

HB

 

"O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

 

AND they wonder why OLD members are leaving ????

 

The ATA dictates to the Delegates (BOD), informs them they represent the Association and not the membership which is totally false or why would the members be the ones who elect them ... The ATA bully's the Delegates into voting the way the EC, ED wants because if they do not they know they will not be a Delegate for long ... The ATA can stand on its own and exist on daily fees with some modifications to the way they do things now, eliminating a $16,000 gun and $20,000 bonus to the president would be a considerable savings besides a few other things I can think of ...
I'm sure the details of the proposal will come out sooner or later, based on the rumor mill (unverified) about the WSRC it seems like the sooner the better for all concerned ... Mr Fishburn is nobody's dummy, I'd bet on him any day when it comes to doing things right ... Time for the Delegates to get off of their dead ass's and get involved (Ya think ?) ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

Art at the Heritage Inn will be happy if the grand goes to Cardinal Center, get you're reservations early ...

 

I would love Grand at the CC.

Can the CC handle the Grand? Last nights doubles did not start until 5pm. And thats with 24 active banks. Is there room to add banks on the flip side of the curtain? Could it be done in 11 months?

 

Simple, cut down on the number of daily events until additional accommodations can be met.

 

Thats fine with me, as a more recent addition i dont know the history of how many targets at grand etc

 

That should be above the logo on the ata letterhead.

 

I have talked to a few people from Ohio about the Cardinal Center and have been led to believe Mr Fishburn owns property in every direction around the Club so the club is not "Land Locked" and there would be property for expansion if the need should arise ... Mr Fishburn is obviously a progress thinking man who looks to the future and not just yesterday like a very astute business man should be ... Time will tell, but for the good of the ATA and for future generations Cardinal Centers involvement is critical to stop the bleeding before its to late ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Unless they could find some cheep property and make another sweat deal to sell to the ATA

 

Word at Sparta is JF is looking for an ATA bailout. Not enough support from OH and PA shooters to cover expenses. Come on guys help FB out.

 

What year does blago get out?

 

I see you must have bumped into sidney or sparta#2 when you were looking for that cart someone stole.

What else did you hear?

 

My sources tell me that Mr Fishburn offered to put in 9 additional banks, build a new campground & maybe even a hall of fame building. I would guess the ATA will only leave Sparta if IL closes the grounds. During opening ceremonies the Pres. said "we will be in Sparta a long time". This year's is the first Grand I missed since 1977. It would be nice to only drive 400 miles rather than 850+.

 

​

 

There ya go. Thanks HB

When does the new delegate from IL get "elected"?

 

If you look at the State of Illinois web site even with the latest tax increases they are going back words financially, I doubt they are going to spend money to take care of the States Parks when there are much bigger things on the agenda ... People are moving out of Illinois to avoid the taxes so there will be less people paying on the total tallies once they figure it all out ... Pritzger in not gun friendly so it would be guessing to say he will not spend money to keep a gun play ground in operation for long, but it sure does not look good ... I cannot remember seeing the IDNR mentioned let alone the WSRC for a considerable length of time on the public forum any way ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Some people define "long time" differently.

 

Okay, I spoke directly to a past president. $19m in the bank no financial problem. Grand will be at Sparta for the foreseeable future. I know what the discussion with Fishburn was about but will wait to see if the truth will be mentioned here. But as a heads up NOTHING about the Grand being moved the the CC. Let's see what's the spin here.

Once the Grand is being boycotted by some in OH and PA, it makes it difficult to have people like me shoot there. I did shoot the Eastern zone in PA but there was no other choice. People need to get over this division if you care about the sport.

 

Mike go blow your smoke up some other place. You know nothing about what was said or not said in that meeting. Roger C.

 

With 19 large in the bank, why is there a $1.00 demand-fee added on at the gate to help pay for a building that is owned by Illinois?

 

You can rest assured you got the truth from a former president! Maybe one of the 2012 Pull boys

 

Actually the Pull 2012 members were not in the meeting last night....

It was a bigger than normal crowd though.... It is open to every member to come to, not just delegates. I enjoy hearing about the “fantastic direction”......

 

Was he carrying his shotgun at the time?

Just wondering if it was the one the members bought for him.

 

"Once the Grand is being boycotted by some in OH and PA, it makes it difficult to have people like me shoot there"

I don't think the 2000 they are short are all from OH and PA. ARE THEY?

The ata big shots said the move wouldn't change the numbers because all the shooters closer to ILnews would make up for it. DID IT?

If I choose not to drive 10 hours to get to that place how in the world does that have ANYTHING to do with you shooting or not shooting? ANYWHERE

"it makes it difficult to have people like me shoot there"

Makes it tough for you to shoot where, that place in ILnews? or OH? or PA? Do you mean because we don't go to that place YOU can't go? Or, because we choose not to go there you have to somehow "return the favor" by not shooting in OH or PA?
You lost me on that one.

"People need to get over this division if you care about the sport."

The reason this site was started was because people DO CARE about the sport. The people that learned all about gun give-a-ways, building deals (pull2012LLC), a 2 MILLION dollar hof building OWNED BY THE STAE OF IL, the ED bonus, hell, even the huge salary paid to this guy, those people that say SO WHAT are the ones that don't care about the "sport".

No spin here. AND, unless you were sitting next to Mr. Fishburn in those meetings you don't know WHAT was discussed.

You spoke to a past president? SO WHAT

 

Mike, PA never sent 2-3,000 to the Grand even when it was in Vandalia. No one is boycotting the grand in IL. they're just not going-me included. I will be at Cardinal Center next week because it has nearly everything Sparta doesn't. Trapshooters are simply getting old and have little desire to drive an extra 450 miles or more to shoot a stupid over priced clay target, eat at crappy restaurants and drive to distant motels each day. Many of us are old and spoiled-so what.

 

That pretty much covers it Dawg

So endith the lesson

 

Listen, Mr. Fishburn is looking for opportunity to expand shooting at WSRC so the facilities can be better utilized. He is a prudent businessman and looks like he has the interest of the sport at heart while making money. Nothing wrong with that.

Moving the Grand from Sparta is the biggest joke. I understand a 4 year budget has been passed by the State to run the WSRC for the next 4 years. Roger do you still think I am blowing smoke??

 

Mike J.
Where did you get the information
" I understand a 4 year budget has been passed by the State to run the WSRC for the next 4 years. Roger do you still think I am blowing smoke??" ...
I check the State of Illinois web site on a regular basis and there is nothing (NOTHING) posted on there ... If you cannot give a link to where you got the info, I think you're blowing smoke ... There has not been a budget in the State of Illinois for well over 10 years, now all of a sudden they got one and the WSRC is included ... I say Bull shit because the WSRC has put the State firmly in financial trouble to the tune of over 23 Million dollars since the facility opened and that's the truth ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Read the minutes when they come out. I cannot swear that it's a State budget, it could be county level. I understand there is a 4 year budget to take care of maintenance of the complex. That's the main point I am making.

 

Illinois 2020 Budget
https://www2.illinois.gov/sites/budget/Pages/default.aspx

 

Illinois certainly put more money into the facility this year than in the past years. Place looked much better. Asphalt, parking lot sealer and striping, well mowed. clearly they were willing to invest in the facility this year.

 

So, what I heard. ATA and WSRC under contract through 2024. Fishburn said he needs two years to add nine banks. ATA said talk to you in 2022.

 

From Mike J, "I understand a 4 year budget has been passed by the State to run the WSRC for the next 4 years. Roger do you still think I am blowing smoke??"

Mike, you're wrong. See Illinois Budget, page 260, line item 8 of the PROPOSED BUDGET. Nothing has been passed, even for 2020.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAbegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2Q2wtEfjJwaYKzo-SPJmRO

 

So?

The state is 6 billion dollars in debt. The Pritzker budget only runs from July 1, 2018 to June 30, 2020. The Grand wraps up in August and is not covered in this budget.

With Illinois bleeding its tax base the way it is, even a pie-eye optimist wearing rose colored glasses will sooner or later have to face reality. Illinois is a dead man walking.

But I really couldn't care less.

 

Thank you Flyer !

It has taken a lot of digging, by MANY people on here, but the THRUTH eventually does come forward.

Now THIS is what WE who post here are all about !!!

Truth, Honesty, and the Need to Know.

 

So, all is well in the State of Illinois. The honest Governor Pritzker has signed a new budget into law. And he says:

“We achieved something that has eluded state government for decades. We passed a real balanced budget,” Pritzker, a Democrat, said at a Wednesday news conference. “Just a few years ago simply passing a budget was considered nearly impossible, and for years before that the budget included gimmicks and tricks and was balanced in name only. Those days are over.”

So, was Governor Pritzker telling the truth? He is a politician you know.

What's this? Illinois passed a budget in 2018?

But Pritzker said it had been decades.

A First in Years, Illinois Passes a Budget On Time
by Tribune News Service | June 1, 2018 AT 9:10 AM
By Kim Geiger, Monique Garcia and Bill Lukitsch

Illinois lawmakers approved a spending plan on Thursday, putting the state on track to have a full budget in place ahead of the new financial year for the first time since Republican Gov. Bruce Rauner took office in 2015.

The House agreed to the $38.5 billion proposal by a 97-18 vote, following a landslide 54-2 tally in the Senate on Wednesday night. Rauner said in a statement he plans to approve it.

The overwhelming vote margins illustrated a consensus that neither Democrats who control the General Assembly nor Republicans allied with the governor wanted to go into the election season under the cloud of a budget stalemate like the one that consumed state government for nearly two years until last July.

They also reflected the changed dynamics at the Capitol, where Rauner for the first time focused on achieving a stand-alone budget rather than a broader deal that included his legislative agenda aimed at reducing regulations on businesses, freezing property taxes and reining in politicians' power.

Instead, the governor asked only for a budget that spends no more than the state takes in and requires no new taxes. That's what lawmakers say they are sending him -- a task made easier by several billion dollars from a tax hike that was passed last summer over Rauner's objections.

Left for another day were some of the state's most pressing financial problems: A backlog of unpaid bills that stands at $6.6 billion and a massive pension debt that's on track to consume a growing portion of Illinois' annual revenue.

Also set aside was Rauner's call for retirement system changes that he said could allow for a modest quarter-percent rollback of the state income tax. The plan projects $445 million in pension cost savings through voluntary buyouts, but it spends those savings rather than returning them to taxpayers via lower taxes.

Rauner, in a statement, praised the legislation as "a step in the right direction, though it does not include much-needed debt paydown and reforms that would reduce taxes, grow our economy, create jobs and raise family incomes." Still, he said he will "be taking action quickly to enact" the budget.

Lawmakers acknowledged that the plan was not designed to significantly change the trajectory of Illinois' troubled financial situation in the long term. But they touted the bipartisan compromise. For many Republicans, their "yes" votes on the budget bills were a career first.

"I can go back to my district and I can say that we have done our job for the first time in many years," House Republican Leader Jim Durkin of Western Springs said. "People in the state of Illinois continue to say, 'Can you please just work it out, get together, figure it out and get the job done?' And that's what we've done today."

Durkin said the budget was "not perfect," but "our priorities, the Republicans' and the Democrats', have been met."

"It's not a bad thing for us to compromise," Durkin said. "I want more of this."

Democratic House Speaker Michael Madigan, meanwhile, referenced his previous criticisms of Rauner's priorities as "extreme," saying that "while there is more work to be done, this compromise budget shows yet again that when extreme demands are not preconditions to negotiation, Democrats and Republicans in the legislature can work together to move Illinois forward."

The plan is based on an assumption that the state will bring in about $38.5 billion in the budget year that begins July 1, including $300 million from the long-stalled sale of the Thompson Center in the Loop. The total revenue estimate was boosted this year by the higher state income tax rate and changes to tax policies in Washington, D.C., plus unexpected spikes in investment returns.

Helping to clear the way for passage was $8.8 billion in spending approval for capital projects like construction of water, transportation and housing facilities, which would be paid for by borrowing and therefore aren't accounted for in the overall spending figures. Such projects can make it easier for hesitant lawmakers to cast "yes" votes, giving them so-called pork projects that they can tout in their districts. Often, though, such projects never materialize.

Lawmakers also approved $2.2 billion in spending on an infrastructure program Rauner announced earlier in the week. They granted him $53 million to cover the first-year costs of constructing a new veterans home in Quincy to address a deadly outbreak of Legionnaires' disease that dates to 2015 -- the handling of which has been a matter of controversy for the governor. And they set aside $500 million for an innovation center in the South Loop that's being led by the University of Illinois and has been heavily touted by Rauner.

The plan also preserves or increases funding for several important constituencies, giving a $50 million boost to early childhood education and an extra $350 million for K-12 schools -- a yearly increase that the schools were promised as part of a new state funding formula that was enacted last year.

And it looks to repair some of the damage of the budget wars of the past. Colleges and universities will see their funding increase by 2 percent, or $56 million. Child care providers will receive a 4.26 percent rate increase. And the Rauner administration will get $1.3 billion in supplemental spending to pay bills that have accrued over the past few years.

Still, as the House planned to vote on Thursday, Moody's Investors Service analysts warned that the state's fixed costs for debt service, retiree health care and pension contributions are on track to consume 30 percent of the money it brings in and that "a failure to adopt mitigating strategies soon will greatly increase the state's risk that these rising costs will become unaffordable without severe public service cuts."

And some lawmakers said they couldn't support the plan because it didn't do enough to address the long-term issues.

"The taxpayers of this state are getting killed and this bill ... continues the carnage," said Rep. David McSweeney of Barrington Hills, a Rauner critic who occupies the far conservative corner of the House Republicans. "We need to cut the budget. Math does count. We need to do real pension reform. ... We are insolvent."

Comptroller Susana Mendoza, a Democrat who controls the state checkbook, said the plan was far from perfect but a step in the right direction.

"We can't breathe easy yet," she said in a statement. "But having this stability and predictability will at least allow us to breathe."

(c)2018 the Chicago Tribune

If their lips are moving . . . . .

HB

 

The WSRC falls under IDNR, that is state not county and its listed as a State of Illinois recreational area park, not Randolf County … The employees are State, not county so that eliminates that possibility … There is nothing outlined to directly support the State parks in the budgets as posted, actually the budget as posted is nothing more than a way to mislead the residents of the State who all got big tax increases besides the motor fuel taxes being increased … WPT … (YAC) …

FUI: A Proposed budget is like a lease that never happened and turned into an MOU for the benefit of the general public …

 

"Okay, I spoke directly to a past president. $19m in the bank no financial problem."

Please tell ignorant people like me what "Bank" that money is in ...... And what kind of deposit account draws the kind of return the ATA claims they get every year .....

The mental-midgets, like "Mike J", believes there is "$19m in the bank", so they must know the name of the "Bank" and the details of this high earning deposit account .....

 

Mike, You either can not read, or you do not comprehend what you have read. That is a problem with many persons, do not feel bad we will correct you. Roger C.

 

Yeah, I once had an officer in my organization who claimed to have many thousand of the club's money in his account too. All the members cheered when he read his report. When I became President the first thing I did was go to the bank and check it out. Well, it went to many thousands to $750. Happens often these days.