Rest In Peace Sir Neil Winston

A sad day for the trapshooting community. Will be greatly missed.

 

Neil and I never had much good to say to or about each other, not being the hypocrite type all I can say is Rest In Peace ... Hope the Dog (Kyra) is okay ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

RIP Neil.
Bruce Bowen
Sturgis South Dakota

 

Very sad news. Enjoyed reading Neil's very informative posts. A loss for the trap shooting community.RIP Neil

 

I read many of his posts here and elsewhere for decades. RIP Neil

 

Neil took a lot of heat on this site but he should be given credit as the first ATA President to force the ATA to give the gun away legally. RIP.

 

Rest in peace:https://bit.ly/2NKd8vh


WPT … (YAC) ..

 

PM's between NW and myself greatly reduced my learning curve with the shotgun sports....... pointed out more than once it was really not necessary to make things more complicated than they really were..... also gave me many sources of information other than his own.
Never new him personally but still feel the loss........... Larry

 

Always enjoyed talking with him Perazzi Barrels, Federal Shells and his Cycle Racing Days. RIP Neil

 

When you are on this site, be prepared to have your facts challenged, regardless of the thread or topic. That being said...

That statement is false.

There was a special meeting held recently by the BOD and EC to correct the issue of the gun giveaway program. It was forced on them by the AG of Illinois. Specifically Assistant IL AG Pasquale. Giving the credit for that to Sir Neil would be a discredit to Merlo and his pals in the trenches.

Bottom line is the bylaw changed was recently forced on them. Neil was not in office two years ago.

Reports are Neil thought the guns should be reported as income for the President but according to the AG IL, it was against the bylaws.

 

I especially enjoyed his posts that tried to belittle this site and its members. The way he would try and talk down to us was just something to behold. His arrogance knew no bounds.
His sarcasm about the shoot that was in the planning stages was second to none.
He said he shot REAL trap while anyone that didn't shoot the blessed registered targets wasn't a real trap shooter.
I don't need a graph to show me how he felt about this site or the people that post here.
I don't turn the other cheek and I don't forgive or forget.

Dysinger was right!

And for whoever has the duty watch, tell your buddies I posted this

 

The clintons should be sending the biggest bouquet of flowers in the history of the world.
Ross got them the whitehouse

 

Rest in peace Neil. Let us know if there is trap shooting in the here after. Roger C.

 

I sure hope there is. I also hope he is on a squad with 4 guys that disliked him very much and it's a ten thousand bird marathon.

I hope the four of them shoot Fed papers and tell him every time they change that they are shooting them because they have less recoil.

 

I agree, prepare to have your facts challenged. Neil was the first ATA President to insist on a 1099 being issued with the Presidential gun for the first time taxes paid on it in accordance with the law as he knew it was considered income. This was to the great dismay of many of the VPs who followed who received the same treatment as a matter of precedence. This site did not exist during the time of Neil's presidency, Merlo didn't have anything to do with it. The bylaw change did come later but Neil was the first to do the right thing legally.

 

The gun freebie was not legal as per the bylaws. The blanket statement that Sir Neil was the first to do it legally will continue to get challenged since it was against the bylaws. The fact that the 1099 was issued did not make much of a difference to the AG in Illinois. No one can argue Neil did not know the bylaws. Of course he did. I cannot think of anyone that knew the bylaws better.

Good that he understood the IRS laws. You don’t get merit badges for obeying those laws. You should not take a gun that is expressly forbidden by the ATA bylaws.

It is unfortunate we have to discuss these facts on this thread but fact challenging is what we do here.

 

To Sir Neil’s credit, he was willing to be challenged on the site. I would like to have one more debate with him. That will have to wait. RIP N1H1

 

Was it known that Neil had Cancer? Roger C.

 

Mr Winston will be remembered exactly the way he wished.

 

You wouldn't want to bet $50 on that would you?

 

I have also enjoyed banter with N1H1....
One of my fondest memories was his statement --->>

(no mention of bylaws there)

 

I would expect Neil to be in the HOF in Sparta soon. I have heard he was a large donor.

 

Even if he wasn't a large "donor" I would bet $50 that they put him in. Minnesota put him in theirs for being instrumental in
"rescinding the 3 hole target rule" so I have no doubt the hof puts him in for ………..? Well, just being neil I guess. I can't think of any other reason they would enshrine him.

EDIT: If I lose the bet I will use the Neil Winston payment plan.

 

He did have a large impact on the organization. If the HOF is about remembering like a museum and documenting the history of the sport, he cant be ignored. Maybe he will not be enshrined but he does have a legacy.

 

"He did have a large impact on the organization."

Why do I get the iceberg and Titanic picture in my head when I read something like this?

 

No one has done battle with Neil more than I. Often bitter but his arguments were well thought out. I may remember Neil differently than others. Our discussions are well documented here.

Here is to Neil's final graph.

 

I hit the like button. And stealing a line from The Equalizer2,

The only disappoint in it for me is I only get to do it once.

 

I don't care who you are, that's funny.

RIP, Neil.

 

N1H1 made it clear he was a company man. ATA to the core. Beyond the good or bad about his views he was here to debate often.

Funny stuff there Butterly!

 

WHOEVER thought of using that picture is a genius

 

Neil Winston and I never agreed with each other on the Patterns my gun threw, he would never try the Ceaser Guerini, He would show his Graphs, which were, in my opinion feed garbage you get garbage, I would post my patterns, he would doubt them. He was contankerous, and Beligerent, May he rest with his Graphs.

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

 

Hey Longshorts classy move. It just goes to show what a fucking idiot you are.

 

It's longshot not longshorts

 

I understand some members dislike of Neil, but instead of bashing a man who is no longer on the Earth to defend himself why not just post nothing if you have nothing decent to say about him. I never met him, I've read his posts and seen the graphs, some members used the information some didn't. I hope none of his family frequents this site.

 

I was conflicted. First I saw a turd in a punch bowl....then I saw rabbit poop in an Easter basket.

 

We're all here today and gone tomorrow. I've never cared one bit what people have thought about me while I'm living, and I'm damn sure not going to care when I'm dead. Don't worry too much about Ol' Neil. He's in good hands.

 

With the opinion he had of himself he should be back in three days.

 

Wow, not like there is not anyone here or on the other site for that matter that would fit that description.

 

I can only dream that any forum cares as much about my passing. Neil enjoyed the spotlight. He had leadership qualities. Let us know if the targets are soft on that side of the bridge.

 

This stogie is for you N1H1. Rarely agreed with you. Thanks

 

Neil will certainly be missed. He has helped many of us to learn how to pattern our guns.

Prayers for him and his family.

 

A great warrior, very intelligent and fun to battle. We've had many challenging discussions, threats, likes and dislikes over the years but always some respect from both sides. I wondered why Sir Neil (the title I originally bestowed upon him) failed to address some issues concerning him on our site lately. Since I now know may a fine man RIP!

 

butterly,
That is cold man … (last graph ) … I talked to Neil way to many times on the phone, he told me in the course of a conversation no matter how right a person might be you can always prove them wrong (Charts and Graphs) which gave me the feeling he was on a mission … I have a folder of things that he posted just in case he tried to delete, change , alter, modify, or deny them which he did on occasion, that way I could show him that he did post it and there was no debating it from that point on … Personally, I do not think he meant well, he was proving his point … I guess I can unblock him now, RIP Neil .. WPT … (YAC) …

 

Maybe because you're a small minded individual with a huge axe to grind.

 

speedywho, People that must use vulgarity to express them selves are to stupid to do so in a civilized manner. You sir are a prime example of a stupid vile orator. Roger Coveleskie

 

My condolences to the Winston family. I think I can speak for all my pals when I say Neil was a big part of this forum. I know some of the information given to me came from him. Surprised?

I report. You decide.
Merlo out

 

Ok, I'm a small minded individual that DEFINITELY has a huge ax to grind.

That doesn't change the facts. He was "instrumental in rescinding the 3 hole target rule".

The analogy was spot on. Maybe you needed the easier targets? Not all of us did

 

Neil is gone, he can no longer institute changes in the sport. Lets see if we can change the things that he did that we did not like. I for one am sorry the Neil has passed on. He may have been obstinate but he was always a gentleman while he was irritating you. Rest in peace Neil. Always remember this; No man is truly dead until there no one is alive to remember him. Roger C.

 

My condolences and prayers to the Winston and Perot families.

 

He was my squad leader one time at the Grand. What a fine gentleman. RIP Neil and may God be with you.

 

Flyers, Give it a rest. Neil is dead. And, I don't imagine that dying of cancer was a nice and peaceful way to go. Pissing on graves is just a way to keep poison in your own life.
He's dead.
And for me, may he RIP
Jake

 

"doing the job of president and what it takes to get there, you too would deserve a commemorative gun."

Gonna be tough to get all that on the tombstone

 

Neil and I could not have disagreed more about the dumbing down of targets, the FTF rule and a few other things. And we discussed it here and there quite a bit. But I like people who study and work and, unpopular as it may be in some trapshooting circles, I believe in science.
Neil was a scientist.
You may not have liked his graphs but he spent thousands of hours shooting patterns and tried his best to analyze the data honestly. And, regardless of anyone's opinion of his results, he didn't just make crap up. He tested it and tried to disprove his own theories and only published what he could back up with his data and testing.
He didn't just shoot targets and draw conclusions based on how he perceived the targets breaking. And if he did suspect something based on observation, then he tested that theory as best and as scientifically as he could.
ATA politics and policies aside. He sure seemed to me to be honest in his intent. Not always right in my opinion but he didn't make decisions without analysis.
I am going to miss him.
RIP Neil.
Jake

 

Glad you liked the guy, good for you.

When you decided to type "give it a rest" did you really think that anything you told me to do would matter to me? As if I would listen to you and apologize? You had to have some doubt, even as you were forming the thought in your head, that whatever you told me wasn't going to do anything right?

And BTW, I didn't post anything after he died that I didn't post or say before he went so I didn't wait to, as you say, piss on his grave. Anytime anyone brought up the fact that he was enshrined in the Minnesota hof for "rescinding the 3 hole target rule" he never replied to the post. He would just act as though he never saw it.

I guess I could have done the same with your post

 

Naw. Probably not.

 

Exactly

I don't dodge posts with my name in them. I don't do the other thing winston did and delete any of my posts either.

 

I don't know. I've always believed that pissing on graves was a lot of fun. I went to a real old college in a real old town. A couple of the real old churches had a bunch of REAL old graves. Every now and then when a bunch of us got together we'd try to see who could drink the most beer. Well...more often than not somebody would say, "Let's go piss on some dead folks."
So, get this picture, it's about 15 of us and the soberest guy is knee walking. It's hard to piss on graves when you're $hit faced drunk and laughing so hard you can't breath...Gawd Almighty, those days were good. I wish I was eighteen again.

 

There are those that adhere to the philosophy "make yourself look good by making others look bad". Perhaps gloating over a death demonstrates that?? Or perhaps not..........Larry

 

Larry,
" Make yourself look good by making others look bad", being able to prove they are wrong even if they are right is one of the things Neil and I discussed during one of the phone calls he and I had, he admitted that he was a Master at it when I brought it up ... I had a folder to save things he said marked "Neil Winston" in my files of things or people he would say things about and in time delete if he got called on it, then deny he ever said such a thing ... This happened so many times I finally decided on that folder to remind him if and when the time came, and it did on more than a few occasions ... I am not going to say anything about the guy now that I did not say to him personally before we cut off all communications between him and I ... He used his ability to make logic sound reasonable and make sense even when it was not accurately applied ... He took great pride in his ability to convince people of things and have them reinforce his way of thinking ... I told him I was going to block him and asked that he do the same with me, then I dropped it and left it go from then on ... The best thing about Neil was his dog Kyra, hope she is doing well and okay ... I said it before and this is the last time I will say it "RIP Neil" ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Really Larry. This is about us or others making themselves look good while making others look bad. You get 2nd most stupid post of the year. Right after this one......when questioned about his gun.

What the devil makes people who have just learned to use their thumbs on a keyboard think they can demand testimony from anyone? n1h1 Oct 26, 2018

Neil was the master of that don’t you think? Or did you just learn to use your thumbs?

 

Too bad Neil's gone. He wasn't always the gentleman on this forum, in fact he could be rather ugly at times, but I enjoyed the information he worked so hard to produce for us and will forever grateful to him for that. May he find more peace where he now is than he knew here in this life.

 

Rest easy Smithy, your hold on first is still very secure......... Larry

 

Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.

 

So very sad and unexpected to hear. Our prayers and condolences to the Winston family. God speed...N1H!
Kevin Hayden & family.
BB&Co.

 

Me too - - fun to talk with and fun to read. Anyone who takes something as insignificant as shooting as seriously as some here are wasting a good deal of energy

+1 on the thot and that would be too stupid and civilized manner (unless of course you actually did mean manor)

HTH

 

N1H1 isn't with us any longer but I always thought the same thing. Why in the world would anyone spend thousands of hours and hundreds upon hundreds of graphs and charts on something as insignificant as breaking a clay target? And to think that all that "stuff" was going to make someone a better shot? If it worked he would have been the greatest of all time.

Bizarre to say the least

 

My Father was one that always complicated some of the most simple things when it came to shooting trap, targets, shells, reloads, patterns, wads, powders, primers, wind, what you eat prior to, etc , etc, etc ... He patterned and tested until the cows come home, I told him he was wasting his time because :

There are no two shot gun shells exactly alike so the odds of getting two patterns exactly the same are impossible ...

If there is a hole in the pattern the chances of it being in the exact some spot in multiple patters or even a second one are extremely not probable because when you pattern you do it at a certain distance, while you probably do not break targets at that same exact spot each time ... The pattern 3 inches before or after that particular spot will not be the same because patterns are not static and change constantly (multi dimentional ) (sp?) until there is no more pattern or shot string ... Take the perfect match of any or all of the components, put them together and no two shells will be exactly alike no matter what you think, nor will the pattern, an existing hole in one pattern will not be in the same spot as another one ... Once the intended target is closer or farther away the entire pattern changes ... The same goes for shooting new shells but it eliminates something to think about ... My Father didn't make graphs but he had boxes and boxes of patterns that he shot and actually counted the number of holes in for sake of being able to compare them ... Those two would of got along like two peas in a pod ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

semperfi909, What did you not understand about my first statement in the post? Thot confuses me. Did you excel in your english 101 class? Roger C.

 

The thing is, winston would have told him his information was wrong

 

I voted for this man, he was the only Real candidate at that time.

GB...................................DLS

 

Neil M. Winston




Winston, Neil M. In his own words: Neil M. Winston, 78, of Saint Paul passed away on the eighth of July, 2019. Neil was born in Minneapolis on August 27, 1940. He graduated from Lawrenceville School in New Jersey in 1959. He enlisted in the US Army in 1961, attended the 47-week Army Language School in Monterey, California, and served out his enlistment as a Czech Linguist stationed on the Czech Border in West Germany. He graduated from California State College in San Bernardino and attended Graduate School at the University of Minnesota in Psychopharmacology for several years. In the 1970's Neil built and raced flat-track racing motorcycles locally and throughout the Midwest, along the way helping many up-and-coming young riders who made the name Winston Racers well-known and respected. In 1982 he took up the sport of clay-target trapshooting and was immediately taken over by it. By 1985 he was a member of the Board of Directors of the 35,000-member Amateur Trapshooting Association, a post he held for more than 20 years. In 2008 he served as President of the ATA. Over 35 years of competition he registered more than 630,000 targets across the country and scored many wins in top competition classes, including two third-place finishes in the Clay Target Championship of America in Vandalia, Ohio, against more than 4,000 competitors. Neil used his university training to set up a ballistics laboratory where he carried out and published entirely original research on the performance of sporting shotguns, a task to which he devoted an unimaginable number of happy hours over 20 years. His dogma-challenging work has informed and challenged the minds of trapshooters for years. He shared his life with many German Shepherd dogs, most recently with his beloved Anka and Kyra. Preceded in death by father Frederick S. Winston and mother Elizabeth M. Winston, he is survived by brothers Donald (and wife Bente) of Missoula and Frederick (and wife Eleanor) of Wayzata, and many nieces, nephews, and cousins. He leaves many close friends in motorcycle racing, fishing, and sport-shooting, foremost among them partner Cindy Thompson to whom he owes much everything, really - for a lifetime of love, support, and help. Memorials may be directed to the causes you love. Celebration of Life July 22, 11 am at Lakewood Cemetery, Garden Mausoleum, 3600 Hennepin Ave. S., Minneapolis. Private family interment.


Published on July 14, 2019


This was posted on Face Book, I copied and posted it if anyone is interested … WPT … (YAC) …

Interesting : Neil forgot to mention being inducted into the Minnesota HOF, seems odd in a way ...

 

Sounds like he wrote it himself for all his fans.

 

Do you think for some reason unknown to me that we have conflicting opinions?

Thank you for noticing and yes I did excel in English classes and university in general throughout my undergraduate and graduate academic career.

 

We do have some opposing views, one is the use of fowl language. I have never met an intelligent potty mouth, have you?
Just misspelling the F bomb does not make it in most peoples eyes. How about yours. Roger C.

 

The obit states he wrote that himself. I am guessing he had some time to reflect on his past or accomplishments. The above would be his last post. He did not mention the changes he brought about within the sport. Interesting that he only pointed out his long time involvement. A humble goodbye in my opinion.

 

Find a quiet spot and reflect on your past....... you know your time is short...... I suspect he wrote about what he thought important. I suspect he did not write to please a fan base.....
To me its a solem "goodby" and "this was what was important to me.....please remember me for this". Larry

 

Not really Bizarre.
In most things people are passionate about only a few rise to the competitive top. But almost always there are some or many obsessed wanna be's who's obsession may not advance them much in the competitive aspect of the sport but none the less advances the sport.
I ain't talkin' bout no 2 hole target or slowin' down the game. But some of that ballisticy "stuff" is pretty important in close competition and its nice someone does the work in a scientific and methodical fashion and is/was willing to share.

 

I posted what I did in response to Semperfi909's post

"Anyone who takes something as insignificant as shooting as seriously as some here are wasting a good deal of energy"

I agreed with him and still think it was pretty bizarre.

Of course if you have a website dedicated to that kind of stuff I assume it would be beneficial to have as many people visit it as possible so posting on a Trapshooting site is kinda like advertising your website. Maybe not so bizarre after all?