Making the clay target fly wider and faster

If the ATA made the clay target fly wider and faster, what would happen ?

 

Younger generation would throw in the towel -- To short of a attention span to put in the time to get good -- They need instant gratification -- and we know what's happening to the older generation -- the clock keeps ticking

 

rrisum, thanks for your comments. Please cast your vote at the top of this page.

 

I cast my vote based on just my feelings which are probably wrong. I think it would help the sport and in the long run increase participation and it would change the long runs of perfect scores. The best shooters would still win.

 

No doubt the "best shooter" that day, in that Event will always win ..... The "best shooter", as people think of "best", may not be there .....

Never forget what "sponsorship" has done to the sport .....

The ATA poster boy shows shooting 18,800 program targets in target year 2018 ..... That is 752 boxes of shells ..... at 8 bucks a box for the unwashed masses that would be 6016 bucks, and you have to go get them, pay taxes, and haul them yourself .....

At a 40 hour per week job, 50 weeks per year, you would need to "bring home" a little over 3 bucks per hour to pay for the JUST the program shells, not including shoot-off or practice shells ..... and the unwashed masses would have to pay taxes and haul them .....

The entry fees on 188 "Events" at an average of 150 bucks per Event would be 28,200 bucks ..... Plus the 6016 would be 34,216 bucks, So now you are up "bring home pay" of a little over 17 bucks per hour at your 40 hour per week job 50 weeks per year ..... and you still need to get to 188 Events, then eat and sleep while you are there .....

No doubt many "jobs" now pay enough to have an extra 40 or 50k to piss away on your "hobby" ..... but, it would be hard to "work" 40 hour per week 50 weeks per year, and shoot 18,800 program targets ..... It would also be hard to shoot 1000 program targets per year, and compete on the same level as those shooting 20,000 program targets per year ..... So, what WAS the so-called Weekend Warrior, is nothing more than a part-time squad filler to up the All American point give away .....

Any single change will do nothing to slow the current death-spiral .....

 

That's what a contest is about - which entrant performs the best. Who GAF about whoever is not in attendance and didn't compete?
As to the rest of it I can't argue with the numbers much but that doesn't much bearing on anything. Simple $ are not the problem since shooting has been an expensive hobby forever. As we all know certain other shotgun games are not suffering at the same level as ATA style trap and they are not cheap either. I understand that it's a radical notion, but maybe the game just sux and shooters who like to shoot are looking for something more interesting. You know, a game where children actually are at a disadvantage to adults.
just a thot

 

Garry; Maybe you should have a ...Not sure added???
User 1 has very good points.
Shortly, the Kids shoot at the Cardinal which will probably outpace the State.
Also, the Collegiate in the Fall which is huge, all probably on Dads dime, shooting some very high grade guns.
When the money runs out, so does most of the interest. Sadly

Regards....Gerald

 

OK - too late to edit my previous post so ..............
Several times in the past I've made this suggestion and sorta hand in hand with it I may have slagged the ATA and that was what got me gone from you-know-where.
The simplest solution of all is to just implement the whole rule set for the internationally recognized game that ATA was on Day One. It's called Down the Line and is shot world-wide and has an annual World Champion event (held in a different country each year) that actually has entrants from all over the world. It uses the same field, the same machines, and same procedures. It is more difficult to a small degree but perfect scores are not infrequent at all.
I'm fully aware that making any changes to the current game is simply not going to happen for a variety of reasons. But wouldn't it be cool to have a game to shoot that pre-pubescent female children were less likely to shoot perfect scores?

here is how the grownups' game is played
http://www.clayshooting2000.co.uk/pdf/Downtheline.pdf

 

The "numbers" mean a lot .....

If I am a Hedge Fund manager that gets paid for good, bad, or other ..... I will make investments different than if it is my own money ..... Same if I am a sponsored poker player using money I don't have to "work for", or worry about losing ..... much different than what was the person with a family to support with a "job", using "extra" money to compete in their hobby .....

If people think there is not a BIG advantage shooting with a "free ride", they are wrong ..... Pissing away sponsorship money makes going home to face your family much easier ..... All American points and a plastic duck will not help put your children through school .....

 

Looking at the DTL rules, the only difference I can see is that DTL allows two shots over American (ATA-style) Trap.
How could having two shots make it HARDER to shoot a perfect score than the hundreds of shooters (of every age group) who are now shooting 100X100 scores regularly with ONE shot allowed per presentation?

 

Just making the targets more difficult is not the whole answer to increasing attendance. There are other changes that must be made. Making targets harder must be done in small changes not all at once. There needs to be a plan to save this sport, I'm not sure the present leadership has the know how to get it done. In fact i'm pretty sure they do not have the ability to do so. Roger C.

 

While I agree with the rest of your post, I cannot agree with that one statement. I think there will be more collective/total complaining by making a series of spaced-out-over-time changes (to make breaking a target more difficult) than by biting the bullet and doing it in one fell swoop.
Kinda' like jerking a Band-Aid off instead of pulling it slowly.....?

The ATA might be perceived in a more favorable light by instituting a major set of changes than by tippy-toeing into it. You know; more committed, decisive, and 'progressive'?

 

the old timers would bitch piss and moan about the tough targets.

 

Michael J just the old timers that are still around, not the 2/3 of old timers that used to shoot ata and have quit because of easy birds, they are already gone.

 

I must hang out with the wrong crowd, I have never heard a single person say that they were quitting the ATA because the targets were to easy.

 

Look again - wider field and faster targets

 

It's time for a little "trapshooting history."

Every issue being discussed today is really a century old topic.

I just don't understand why anyone in a leadership position vote to make our sport easier in light of the many improvements, Only those who hold a false impression that higher scores will save the sport would support such a view.

I'm one who believes that a return to the old times when trapshooting was more challenging would actually prove to be healthier for our sport. I don't subscribe to the view that it will cause a great many to leave the game. Certainly some will leave, but A.T.A. use to report that we lost thousands of members annually, but gained nearly that number of new members. The roles varied only a small percentage up or down.

So, I think a mass exit of our sport is highly unlikely and quitting registered shooting because it was made harder, would be short-lived. However, we'll never know for sure since the attitude has followed the belief of reducing the level of difficulty and increasing the number of perfect scores. I ask, if shooters quit trapshooting because it is "too hard," why didn't they quit after their first round of trap? I know I didn't break many targets on my first attempt at trapshooting. How about you? What keeps the B, C, & D class shooters in the game if it's so difficult and unfair?

Is there proof that reducing the level of difficulty of trapshooting has maintained and increased membership? I don't think so.

Here are a few pertinent discussions from our past:

"Shortly after last year's Grand American Handicap, in view of the general excellence attained by many of America's trap shots who attended, comparisons were drawn showing the necessity for change in some of the contests. It then seemed timely to suggest that conditions be made more difficult, in order to conscientiously determine who was the most skillful of the many champions. In editorials of July, '05, the gun editor of "Sporting Life," the late Will K. Park, furnished figures showing 93 and 94 per cent, men as coming out at the short end of the horn during the big meet, indicating such a vast field of better performers as to account for all the high-gun monies. This year the untoward weather cut considerable figure, and 94 per cent, meant being among the leaders, but they were unusual conditions, furnishing the exception, merely, to prove the rule.

In those same editorials Mr. Park applauded a co-worker's idea of having a championship race at 150 targets from 18 yards, though that part, wherein the use of two barrels was to be permitted, he ruthlessly cut out as defeating the very object sought. Experts of the present day use their first barrel so quickly that it would be easy to successfully train the second barrel on the few targets missed at 18 yards with the first. He considered, also, that the distance should be greater than 18 yards, and time proves him to have had the right ideas. The co-worker's suggestion has been tried by the Interstate Association, and shows conclusively that harder conditions must be imposed to bring forth the premier shot at inanimate targets. What we sorely need is decidedly more variety to the work. This monotony of angle, position and event, which the sport of trap shooting has drifted into, is against its best interests. A remark from a spectator at, the recent Eastern meet hit the nail on the head in our estimation. After watching for some time the various squads fall in line, to hit or miss 15 targets, as the case might be, he turned away in disgust. "Do you call that sport? I don't. It is the same thing over and over again."

Let us go back to first principles, if necessary, and for genuine tests of marksmanship install the one-man-up, unknown-trap system. Why not include some pairs to better show the skill of participants?

At the Pennsylvania State shoot the exhibition of double shooting in one of the trophy events was truly remarkable, so few targets were broken. And it was possibly the most interesting event of the shoot because of the novelty. If the one man-up system is too slow for these rapid days let us have something in the way of reform, to render target shooting less sure and more interesting.
[ SPORTING LIFE, August 4, 1906, page 21 ]

PRIDE OF RESULT​

That good shooting under hard conditions is to be preferred to high scoring under easy conditions was conclusively proved by the results of the recent Southwestern Handicap, at Oklahoma City, Okla. On the Handicap day a 40-mile gale of wind was blowing accompanied by a terrific dust storm. To smash targets under such conditions required the very finest kind of shooting. It was a severe trial and tested the mettle of the shooter to the limit. The scores were naturally far below normal, yet remarkably high for such conditions. The very difficulty of making scores spurred the shooters to go beyond their usual speed in scoring, and we venture to say that the winners in that shoot did the very best shooting of their careers. The most interesting thing was the pride displayed by the shooters who were fortunate enough to win prizes or score about the 90-mark. They considered that they had indeed been shooting, quite a contrast to their attitude when breaking 100 straight under ordinarily easy conditions.

This convinces us that the great majority of the shooters would rather win under extremely hard conditions with an 85 per cent, score, than break 98 out of 100 with conditions easy. The trap shooter is not different from the ordinary mortal. He appreciates most what he works hardest to attain.
[ SPORTING LIFE, May 2, 1914, page 29 ]

​

Enjoy Our History!

HB

 

In 1920 indoor plumbing was a luxury. In the 1940's 18 yo's were charging machine gun nests. In the 1990's to the 2000's the old time WWII and Korean war vets who started shooting with Model 12's began a massive die off. Meanwhile, Sporting Clays courses sprouted everywhere along with casinos and even on line gambling. Lots of young kids in my neighborhood but are seldom seen as video games provide instant gratification. Skeet is near death and trap requires way too much practice to be somewhat competitive. The few millennials that exist with even a limited access to firearms gravitate to Sporting Clays for an afternoon of non-competitive fun-the rest buy handguns and semi-auto long guns.

Putting it another way, our Winter trap league has over 400 members. No more than 20 are capable of making the top 10 and they do it year after year. All that means is the other 380 members are sufficiently challenged by the existing target presentation. Making it more difficult for them means they'll probably stay home and play video games with their kids.

 

I agree with you summation. Add yardage it is the only way to equalize the handicap system. A change to the old settings would not be noticed by 95% of todays shooters. They would adapt to them the same as we did back then. They would also realize that the added yardage would give them a better chance at winning a major shoot where the elite were at. The added yardage and return to the settings of past years would effect the long yardage shooters more than the average shooters. Roger C.

 

Want to hear even more screaming and gnashing of teeth, add mandatory ydg reductions at the same time.

 

Let's not forget that the cost of trapshooting has risen at least 50% in the last 15 years. That may not be much to some but I know a lot of shooters who have quit because of it.

 

chris, The sport of sporting clays is more expensive than trap and it it growing. We have a leadership problem. To many lemmings in the BOD. Roger C.

 

It is no honor to stand on the 27 yard line and shoot in the 60's and 70's. You got there, have the good sense to take a reduction and return as a competitor. Take the reductions there is no shame connected to them. Roger C.

 

Does driving on the Interstate Highways make driving to easy to get from one place to another? Maybe next time you traveling go back to driving on the back roads.Having intersections every mile or so will keep you more alert.Times change and life goes on,if you need more challenging targets try sporting Clay's or Bunker.They don't shoot gun down Skeet anymore.International Skeet is more challenging and all they have to do is increase the target speed and the gun down rule.How about gun down Trap?

 

Palos shooter, And who do you think will be effected the most by your suggested changes? Roger C.

 

Roger,I think all the old guys.Look at all the kids entering the trapshooting sport,young eyes and fast reflexes. Lots of jr and sub jr are shooting some very good scores,I don't think a few degrees for 3 hole targets would slow them down.We have a few high school kids that shoot a 50 target program at our club and some of them do pretty well .Most of our members have about fifty years experience and these kids have about six weeks and they do well.Ever wonder why youth is waisted on the young.
At the Turkey shoots the shoot offs are from the parking lot,other wise they would last a long time and cost the club a lot of targets.
Roger 3 hole targets would be fine with me,I shot them in the 70s

 

The younger generation would be the first to shoot the harder targets and say NOTHING.
They do it now in Sporting Clays and they LIKE IT.

GB.........................................DLS

 

Doc,

The way to prove your hypothesis is to go to Cardinal with 100 good shooting kids 18 and under. Set up ten wide and fast traps and ten slow and easy traps. Tell the kids what you did and ask who wants to shoot what. I'll bet next week's paycheck(next month's SS check) that what you said is right. Those kids are tough. They ain't sissies.

 

I would be totally against it --At my age that's the only advantage I have over these youngsters at our fun shoots -- Wide and fast is what I grew up on --Get these kid shooting them I wouldn't stand a chance.

 

Reality can be a tough mistress. I played golf the other day with a 19 year old. He hit the ball 320 yards....with my driver.

 

I think attendance would initially take a hit as all the old folks piss and moan. After that, I think it'd go back to status quo...maybe increase. The problem is, those at the top of the game don't want change and will always say those who aren't running 200 straight all the time don't have a valid opinion. As a whole, registered trapshooters tend to be a whiny lot (or maybe a sizable number of louder voices drown the others out)...how else can one explain that the ATA rules allow a do-over for flinching? Give me a break! In every other shooting discipline, the scorer/ref would just say, "sucks to be you, don't flinch next time."

 

rrisum, Do you mean wider, and set to the rules. Would this be to hard on you? If so you are not a competitive shooter. We should not make the game easier for those that are not able to excel. If every generation did that we would be shooting targets laying on the ground in front of us. Get real this is not a sport of making winners out of losers. Roger C.

 

Simple, a 2-3-4-5 or 1-2-3-4 hole trap setting on adjacent traps for a new event. Problem solved.

 

Ok. You have heard it now.
I quit shooting ATA because the targets were too easy.
I still shoot all the time. Wobble with the rubber cranked up as tight as I can. Also some sporting clays and skeet if I can find a field.
But ATA targets are boring. I admit form 27 yards they are challenging. But still boring.
Where I mostly shoot, we even shoot our games with the trap on wobble.

 

I completely agree. I'm also bored with ATA Trap. The chickens won't shoot a tougher target. Wobble needs to be the standard form of Trap.

 

Trap league rules are set by the league committee. This includes the yardages and targets. You can make league targets as hard or as easy as the committee wants.
This thread is about ATA registered shooting at ATA-mandated targets and yardages. Not the same thing.

 

Ninety percent of sporting clays targets are tougher than trap. Plenty of shooters..chicken-types and otherwise....are paying money to shoot sporting these days.

 

No need to throw the targets farther. Just declare the 16 yd. line obsolete and move everyone to the 18 or 19. That was easy.

 

Please provide your ATA number and the huge number of 100 and 200 straights you've ever broken. Well, maybe even 25 straights will do.

 

Why is the pat answer to any criticism of the status quo always "give me your ATA number and how many targets you've shot"? Can I have an opinion without making this so called "sport" my sole reason to exist?

 

You can have any opinion you desire but if you don't play the game your opinion is worthless. I can have an opinion on golf but since I only played once I'd be an ass to tell Tiger Woods how to change his swing.

 

For the guys that want to know why some people shoot Sporting events and have quit the large ata events

Score on 200 16 yrd line targets...………......198 Result...….go wait in the truck
Score on 200 Sporting targets(zone shoot)...169 Result...... Winner in A class,$575 and a beautifully engraved trophy

You dump one on the 1st trap of the first 100 in 16's you might as well scratch and save the other 175 shells.

 

Yeah but then some guys would be shooting their caps yardage from the same distance. Someday there might even be a GAH winner from that close.

 

The 18 yd. line in Handicap was eliminated. Just like the pidg-you kill a ring and move back to increase difficulty.

 

Dawg, I know the 18 was eliminated but I don't see much difference between the 18 or 19

As far as moving in a pigeon shoot, from what I remember it was kill 5 and move. You could miss the third in the first ring, kill numbers 4 and 5 then in the next ring if you killed the first 3 you moved. Done it. Some shoots were 32 yards no slide. Everyone shot all 20 or 25 from that stake. After there were too many straights and the money was being cut up they went to 30 birds. Five more chance to miss!

 

Either throw the targets 2 yards farther out or start 2 yards farther back I fail to see much difference. Like that's really gonna affect Harlan. The logic is fairly stupid. Pour more concrete!

I'm pretty sure I remember Jake at Pikeville moving me back on occasion.

 

throw 60yd / 3 hole targets and use the concrete for a patio at the clubhouse - - or make it a real game for the grownups and add the wobble too. The handicap system is already a farce and has been since it was conceived. So are the "classes" when the current target settings have D Fem Sub-junior shooting 200x200

 

Good ole Jake
I was 18 straight at the state and he was working the last ring. The rope to #1 had a knot that was frayed. I called and the frayed piece of rope moved just enough to catch my eye and I made a move to the box. As I did the far right box opened and the bird had three wing beats on me before I realized what he had done. Dead five feet outside. OUT!
Killed the last one and five of us of got out with 19's. There was only one 20, the last shooter.

Yeah, I remember Jake. If I had been from the eastern side of the mountains he probably wouldn't have done it.
All part of the game.

 

I'm sure you're willing to donate a few million of your personal fortune to convert all existing traps to wobble. We already have one wobble at our local club that gathers dust. If you'll donate enough we'll be glad to add five more dust collectors for your personal enjoyment. Next you can start a fund to provide two shot firearms to all those unfortunate souls, men, women and children who are lacking the means to be competitive. I'm sure you'll enlighten us how long it took for you to get so bored breaking 200 straights you decided you needed something more challenging. Is it true you're actually related to smoking357 our resident non-shooting troll?

 

Yeah, he got me once-that dreaded last ring. I remember going straight, knees shaking and calling for one of my last birds. The old SX-1 was humming that day and so was a last bird choke. Now you knew old Jake always watched your head to see if you were looking at the ropes, jiggled one and pulled another. Those were the days.

 

Not the same thing.
You may not know how to play golf well, but I bet you'd have some good opinions on how to improve the snack bar at the local golf course, or make the game more attractive to new players....no?

 

The funniest? The state shoot when the protester chained himself to the steering wheel of that small tractor they used to move the birds across the creek.

Damn kid must have been hooked to that wheel for a couple of hours. Even the State cops were laughing at him.

 

They might be tougher for you but my high score on a fluffed up course was 96/100. Guy on my squad broke all 100. Some guys can just plain old shoot better than others.

 

What does that prove if not MY point? I said 90% of sporting clays targets are tougher than trap targets, I didn't say all of them were.
If you shot a 96 and someone shot a perfect score, that was a REALLY fluffy sporting clays course....and falls within the 10% I talked about.

Next rebuttal.

 

A well designed course mixes up fairly easy shots with a sprinkling of very difficult ones. FYI, over twice as many trap targets are thrown each year more than Sporting. Like I said, some guys just naturally better shooters than others including the guy who broke the hundred. With all the cheating going on in Sporting it's tough to determine targets actually broken anyway.

 

olealliedawg, Is there a lot a cheating going on in sporting clays? How, and do they not have offical scorers? This is alarming. Are they calling lost birds dead? Roger C.

 

Well dawg, you will never get an easier softball question than that one.

There is a guy around here, still shooting, that for a couple of years would show up late and shoot by himself or with one other shooting buddy.
Surprisingly it took that long for some people to realize that was the reason he was winning so many shoots.

Do you really think you can get away with it again?
Sure, most of these guys don't have a clue. They're used to shooting Trap or Skeet where there are people watching.
Have you seen the kids they have scoring? Two weeks ago they didn't know what a clay target was. They thought they were called skeets.
OK, we can try it again but if you get caught I don't know you.
You worry too much. It's ten minutes to cutoff, grab your gear and don't forget the pencil with the eraser.

 

I think I know that guy. We wouldn't allow him on our course anymore without a scorekeeper after he always pulled that trick at every shoot. Really good shot but never as good with an official scorekeeper. Anyway, those rabbit and difficult to see presentations with narrow windows always seem to accumulate plenty of dead birds. It's really a cheatin' man's game but fun anyway.

 

When it all started it was fun. Neat stations with all kinds of targets. Standing in a pit blind, sitting in a boat suspended three feet off the ground by four garage door springs, rabbits that ran in and out of tunnels, call once 8 bird flurries that came at you, upside down targets that skipped off the pond like a settling duck. It was supposed to be all about hunting situations and having a good time. Didn't matter what you broke.

THEN the money came into it. Nuff said

 

We got away from the original post some so for that I apologize. I heard there might be some thoughts out there pertaining to it.

I don't get T&F any longer. If someone does can they check and see if there is an article in the June or July issue from the outgoing Prez.?

 

that's really funny

I didn't say I am Mr. Wonderful. What I did say is that it's a boring Foo King game and US shooters deserve better. And as I also said we all know that ain't never gonna happen so what difference does it make if someone slags the ATA game?

 

If you're not happy with US targets move to a country where your enormous talent can be recognized!

 

There isn’t any money in it. I made enough money to go back to school. Earned 3 years tuition. They changed the targets and I stopped shooting. The blue collar shooters have almost all gone. Too bad. They brought the money to the game. Come to my area where you can walk to 3 clubs in a morning. Still shooting. Not much registered.

 

Ah, you're too kind. I'm really not that talented or young enough to make a move of that magnitude. It's far simpler to adjust the machine and flip the wobble switch for fun targets. You might give that a go sometime. You may surprise yourself how much more entertaining it is.

just a thot

 

So how many switches do you suggest the entire country needs on all their existing traps to make your dream a reality? At what cost? The last time I shot wobble I broke 24 with two shots. The late great Frank Little broke all 25 with one shot and won the event. You sir are just a low talented troll!

 

So you're half right since I've never made any claim to a surplus of talent but I think the troll thing is a bit off as I was merely replying to the OP's original Q.
And I never claimed wobble is impossible to run tho few ( probably none) are actually set to ABT levels and Dan Carlisle (the only one IIRC) ran 200 on a real ABT.
FWIW

 

Why fool with silly wobble or easy sporting targets? Let's make live bird shooting the new event and discard easy ATA trap altogether. Well, at least make ZZ birds mandatory practice. First think of all the fun we're missing and no need to replace all those PAT traps with wobble switches. Why just not join the ranks of all those shooters who stink at American trap and run off to bunker where they can generate a few oohs and aahhs when they finally hit one. ATA trap is a game of perfection and when you're finally capable of earning a few 90's yearly averages from the 27 yd. line please tell us just how easy it is again!

 

oleolliedawg, It is not easy to maintain an average of 90+ from the 27 yard line. It is just not as hard as it was back in the day when we did it. Roger C.

 

Just for fun you might search something like "winchester wobble trap" and discover how Winchester invented the wobble trap with the intention of having a relatively inexpensive machine that could be stuffed into about any trap house and give young US shooters the opportunity to develop into international capable shooters. An opportunity that was embraced world-wide except of course in the US.

 

Boy, you are a genius. I had one of those old Western wobble traps in one of our houses over 40 years ago. Nothing but a pita for the loader having to chase the arm and deposit a target while moving both up and down. Trust me, there is not a trained squirrel loading a machine but a real person with fingers. Another silly idea and the event was discontinued at the Grand in Vandalia decades ago. Do you have any more proven nonsense to enlighten all of us?

 

semperfi, Years ago the ATA had an event at some state shoots and other places using the wobble trap. the last one I seen was at the Florida state shoot at the old Cigar City club in Tampa. Roger C.

 

I'm sure a number of clubs had the single loaders. We had one we used for club shoots at Sacramento Trap. The club I belonged to near Redlands had two later Winchester autoloader wobble that we replaced with Beomats in the the early '90's. The Winchesters would easily throw a target as far as the Beomats. We'd wind up the Winchesters until they started breaking targets and then back it off half a turn or so. Great machines.

 

When I started shooting trap in 1977 we threw hole 3 targets. Our shoot director was kinda insistent on that. My first punch to the 21 was for a 98 shooting at those hole 3 targets thrown from Winchester hand set traps.

 

Roger what I said Wider and faster is what I grew up on. -Set to the old rules - not the new rules -- That is the advantage I have on these young snow flakes, -- But the ATA has decided that's the only way to keep them coming back - Participation trophies for all on snow flake targets --You are %100 right this sport shouldn't be about making winners out of losers --Our monthly club money shots have proved it time and time again when we widen and speed up the target the young hot shot kids show up once but never return - But todays ATA is about making winners out of everybody - Its all about the money

 

YARDAGE GAINS, From the 19 to the 27 keep the rules as they are now. From the 27 to the 30. make the rule. A shooter must score 98 or better in order to gain yardage, also there must be at least 150 shooters in the event to gain yardage beyond the 27 yard line. This way you will not see shooters advance beyond the 27 yard line at small shoots with scores in the low nineties or eighties or less. Roger C.

 

Making the targets fast and the angles much more varied sure hasn't hurt Sporting Clays participation.....

 

Please enlighten us how fast a typical Sporting Clays target travels!

 

oleolliedawg, Fast is not the norm for sporting clays. I sold many of those courses when I was still in the business. I told my customers to vary the speed it will make the course harder. And also to vary the speed on every station on different days. If you increase the speed of trap targets you are going to kill the average shooter. More speed means longer targets and most can not hit what is now thrown. Roger C.

 

Yup, I designed quite a nice course myself. You don't have to throw 'em fast-just tricky.That's why I asked smoking357's protégé to clarify his less than knowledgeable statement.