Gipson's Big Deal - Who found the property? 2012PULL

Does the below article imply Mr. Gipson found the property where the office is?

EC Committee to Gipson: "Go find a place."

Gipsons quote in the article: "I was somewhat familiar with the area but not entirely. I started looking around and found a few properties. This building here was just perfect."

The question I am trying to resolve is the following.

If he found the ATA office property. How did an ATA member from TEXAS buy it before he had the chance to inform the ATA Officers of his find?

Did he tell V. P. Rob Taylor and Taylor gave money to his friend Dawson to make a quick purchase so they could make money?

I report. You decide.
Merlo out

 

Lynn ( the Talking Head) Gipson finds the property, does not inform the ATA in a timely manner so the VP ( Taylor) and his Buddies buy it, and re sell it to the ATA at a considerable profit after the ATA did all of the up dates on the building .? This kind of sounds like the ATA is paying twice for improvements they made while they leased the building ... The Pull 2012 (Pres Ben Dover) some how got the inside information before the ATA did ... If Lynn Gipson was on the pay roll of the ATA would he not have an obligation to inform them of a property they told him to find and or locate before handing off the information to anyone else .? WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

He was in the full staff meeting (I believe) on January 9th, with a couple other E. C. members when they told all employees of the ATA's plans to relocate the offices to Sparta by June 1, 2012.

HIs first duty was to move the offices to Sparta.
JAN 1, 2012 First day on job
JAN 9, 2012 Meeting to inform employees they would be moving
FEB 5, 2012 Newspaper quotes Gipson that they would be moving in the next couple months.

Question: Move to where? They did not own or have a lease for a building.

I report. You decide.
Merlo out

 

Strange or not? Note the date below. The property has not been transferred to Patrick Dawson yet.

James A. Corbin, President of Southern Foods Park sells property at 1105 E. Broadway St., Sparta, IL to ATA member Patrick Dawson, of Midland, TX. on March 9, 2012. WARRANTY DEED NO.2012R01112

I report. You decide.
Merlo out

 

Note again the date. The property is changing hands again. Not to the ATA. To 2012PULL. Vice President Taylor was involved with 2012PULL

Patrick Dawson sells property currently leased by the ATA, to 2012 PULL LLC on June 1, 2012. WARRANTY DEED NO. 2012R02207

I report. You decide.
Merlo out

 

Dawson did not even legally own the property and had a signed lease (FEB 23, 2012) from the ATA (Jeff Wagner) and ATA could move in March 1st.

How often does the ATA agree to lease a piece of property from a person that does not own the land?

I report. You decide.
Merlo out.

 

2012, MAR 01 – ATA leases 1105 E. Broadway Sparta, IL property from 2012 PULL, LLC, Lease Agreement No.2012RO2123 as recorded with Randolph Co. on June 4, 2012. The ATA agrees to pay annually pay $30,000 through 2012 – 2015, in monthly installments of $2,500 due on 1st day of each month (Section 3). Landlord to replace HVAC unit and sewer pump (Section 4). ATA also agrees to pay all real and personal taxes, all sales and use taxes, and special assessments levied or assessed against the Leased Premises and provide receipts of payment to Landlord (Section 7). ATA agrees to pay for all repairs to building and equipment, pest extermination, interior & exterior painting, to roof, HVAC and parking lot. ATA agrees to make any repairs deemed necessary by Landlord (Section 8). ATA agrees to pay the cost of all utility services to include deposits (Section 9). ATA agrees to purchase bodily injury liability and property damage insurance in the amount of not less than $300,000 for injuries to persons in one accident, $100,000 for injury to any one person, and $50,000 for property damage, plus $1,000,000 umbrella coverage, at its own expense (Section 11A). ATA agrees to purchase fire and extended coverage insurance for the building(s) in the amount of $100,000 (Section 11B). All insurance policies shall name Landlord as named insured. ATA has option to purchase in 2nd or 3rd year of lease for $100,000 and all associated closing costs (Section 21).


I report. You decide.
Merlo out

 

Not only does the ATA agree to lease the property prior to it being owned, they agreed to do the repairs as "deemed necessary by the landlord."

I report. You decide.
Merlo out

 

I am not much of a journalist. (obviously)

The big question as to my initial post is ------>>>

How did all this happen if Mr. Gipson found this perfect property the beginning of January. Isn't this what the timeline and article suggests?

I report. You decide.
Merlo out

 

Tons more to come.

I report. You decide.
Merlo out

 

There appears to be some collusion going on here, that cannot and definitely is not to the memberships advantage … It seems to me there should be a failure to perform or conflict of interest law suit that should be filed against some of those involved in the sales of / leases of said property … The ATA and its elected Official are supposed to perform in the best interest of the Association and its membership, that does not appear to be what is going on here … I have to be missing something … WPT … (YAC) …

 

WPT,

You think you are missing something ???

I think a lot of us are in that same boat. (Or were)

One of the more interesting things in this whole transaction was the obvious cover up in the ATA minutes of the name of the LLC who purchased this property.

PULL LLC was the name listed in the minutes several times..

NO, I don't believe this was a TYPO considering the amount of times this LLC was mentioned.

Once I could understand being a typo, but so many times leaves not much doubt as to what the intention was here.

My feeling was that they didn't want any of us "Curious" members to be able to track down those involved.

All names pertaining to this property should have read 2012 PULL LLC.

Gipson was even asked to have these minutes corrected a couple years ago...NOT YET, and probably never will be.

Ever hear the excuse I received ???

Redundant I know, but it pissed me off to no end. Sorry, but this whole thing really upsets me.

Members will be notified on a "NEED TO KNOW BASIS".

They just sit back and laugh at us who WERE members.

They sure took the wind out of my sails after this let down.

Oh yeah Baby !!!

 

Three curious questions / answers..

1 Who made the motion to hire Lynn Gipson?
2 Who made the motion to relocate ATA Offices to Sparta?
3 What ATA VP was part of 2012PULL?

2011, DEC 05 – Decision made during Executive Committee meeting to hire Lynn Gipson as new Executive Director effective January 1, 2012 and relocate ATA offices from Vandalia, Ohio to Sparta, Illinois. Motion by Rob Taylor, second by Wayne Morris. Unanimous [ E. C. Minutes of December 5, 2011, pg. 14 ]

 

It's like watching a Marx Brothers movie. These guys are supposed to be educated and smart enough that they can "run" the ata.

In reality they were TOO STUPID TO EVEN COVER THEIR ASSES and thanks to the people on this site they got caught.

Did you people (fill in names you like) really think you could get away with it?

Maybe not even TOO STUPID, just SO FULL OF THEMSELVES that they felt they could do whatever they wanted and no one would question them. Pretty much business as usual huh?

 

All you are reporting Merlo is one of the many reasons I quit shooting ATA and quit Tournament Directing. I will not support the ATA with any of my money, and don't encourage anyone to shoot ATA. I tell them to shoot trap at their local non registered clubs.

Trap shooting is a great sport, the ATA is run by ass holes. Too Bad.

 

I am not representing anyone or forum. My posts are not about hating any org. My posts are about information and questions asked and the info given to me. I have more.

I report. You decide.
Merlo out

 

As I sit here and reflect on the treasure trove of information that has been provided on this forum, I
am hopeful that others realize that they often are hearing new material that most other shooters are unaware of. But, there are who have doubts about the accuracy of many reports.

Some folks didn't believe the A.T.A. was provided 25 free camping spots at the WSRC during the 2-week GAH tournament. Delegates didn't even know until they read it here. It was in the lease.

How about those who called B. S. on reports on this forum that the Trapshooting Hall of Fame would be gifted to and owned by the State of Illinois. That turned out to be true and the lease agreement served as proof.

Merlo, you often post something you've learned and prompt us to check it our for ourselves . . . .do the research . . . . find the truth.

Without this forum and those who take time to research and provide their findings here for others to review, nobody would have ever heard about 2012 PULL, LLC.

Anyone who does not believe the information they read here should conduct their own research. It won't take long and it's not that hard.

For those who may think this 2012 PULL LLC information is B.S., take a few minutes and conduct your own research. It's not hard.

1. Read the minutes on the ATA website.

2. The State of Illinois State maintains a webpage where you can conduct searches. A quick and easy search would be to see if 2012 PULL LLC was registered with Illinois to legally conduct business within the State.

3. A.T.A. lease and purchase agreements (Land Records) for the 1105 E. Broadway property can be obtained online from the Randolph County, IL webpage.

Think 2012 PULL LLC is nothing more than unsubstantiated gossip?

Ask yourself, what would I have done if I was the person who found the 1105 E. Broadway property was for sale at a price of $75,000 and it might be a good location for the A.T. A. offices.

I don't think it would have been first purchased by an ATA member from Midland, TX.

Nor do think an A.T.A. V.P. would have felt it necessary to form a Kansas LLC to purchase the property from the A.T.A. member from TX. I think you would have done the same thing I would have done; inform the A.T.A. Executive Committee in writing.

What is most disturbing is that safeguards were in place to prevent the 2012 PUL LLC group from pulling off their scheme.

The A.T.A. has a conflicts of interest policy of which every officer must read and sign.

The A.T.A. has a Real Property Advisory Committee of which its duty is to fully investigate leases and purchases, and then provide their recommendation to the E. C.

The two top safeguard for our Association failed and . . . . .

No investigations initiated.

No policy and procedures review to prevent future infractions.

Do they know they are supposed to be our leaders and watchdogs?

Sadly, our ATA loses another one. And, nobody seems to care.

HB

 

"The two top safeguard for our Association failed and . . . . .

No investigations initiated.

No policy and procedures review to prevent future infractions.

Do they know they are supposed to be our leaders and watchdogs?

Sadly, our ATA loses another one. And, nobody seems to care." ( Quote By HB )

Sadly enough, nobody seems to care (any more) … There seems to be an attitude they can do what ever they want and get away with it …. (This is still yet to be seen) … WPT … (YAC) …

 

Unfortunately I have seen NOTHING that has prevented this "Do whatever they want".

It will just continue because we will not find out...Remember what has been offered by them...

The biggest joke they offered ~~~ Do You Need To really know all the details?

Why Hell NO !

It WAS only my membership money you WERE spending !

 

Here's the Real Property Advisory Committee's comprehensive evaluation of the 1105 E. Broadway property prior to issuing their recommendation. Great job with your responsibility to conduct due diligence. A quick walk-thru.

​

 

This obviously would have to be presented to the courts by someone who would want to make a name for them self, then the By Laws would need to be broken down to a word by word presentation in such a way to prove "Conflicts of Interest" by those involved ... The break down of Moral's (Integrity) to the level of corruption seems so obvious it would be hard to imagine a court of law would not or could not plainly see the by laws are not being adhered to by those elected to enforce them as well as getting financially enriched by the dealings ... This is truly a sad situation for a once Great Association to be entwined in this type of corruption by the actions of the ED, EC and obviously some of the BOD who are aware of these things ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Sometimes the bastards' win.

 

Excerpts from the A.T.A. minutes identify as the motion maker.

​

The ATA made the decision that because the new office property was appraised higher than the purchase price, there was no conflict of interest violation by Mr. Taylor. All violations were swept neatly under the rug. The E.C. should have gone back and re-read there own conflict of interest policy. But then again, they still would have ruled in favor of one of their own.

HB

 

How much money was made on this deal?

 

Even $1.00 would have been too much.

 

Everything was done in the best interests of the Amateur Trapshooting Association I'm sure. LOL

Nobody's talking and ATA officials don't seem to care. Some Board of Directors were upset that a complaint was filed with the IL Attorney General's office.

That complaint turned out to be pretty important because without it, we would not have known the ATA Controller asked Mr. Taylor about his rumored involvement.

​

The complaint also yielded the payments made by the ATA to the 2012 PULL LLC guys.

​

What prompted the ATA to make payments to 2012 PULL LLC from February - May 2012? ATA member Dawson was the legal owner and did not sell the property to 2012 PULL LLC until June 1st.

Why did he sell it for the same price he paid for the property?

Why didn't he just sell it to the ATA for the $75,000 instead of 2012 PULL LLC?

Why did he get $2500 / month on a property that Zillow estimated at $62,223 with an expected monthly rent of around $909 / month? Sure is a lot of unanswered questions and not one elected official is interested in getting answers.

​

Every once in a while this subject comes up and a some of us attempt to provide the few details we've been able to obtain. It won't likely draw any interest from any ATA officers or our watchdog Board of Directors, or even many members, but hopefully it will help interested members understand how important it is for members to trust but verify. This member lost his trust a long time ago.

HB

 

Gee HB,

Once again you complete the story for those who may have forgotten, or are new to this site. Thank You !

It was noted with interest that the PROPER name of the LLC was in these reports, and not just PULL LLC.

Have you ever found out IF The EC ever had the minutes of those meeting minutes where (ONLY) PULL LLC was named as the seller and not 2012 PULL LLC to "Possibly" throw off the interested members from finding out who ACTUALLY were the people behind the LLC.

I have looked at all the following minutes, and have found no mention of such a correction.

So much for any suggestions from members that the minutes be amended to the CORRECT information.

 

This story is far from complete. The only people with knowledge of the entire scheme are those involved and they went to great lengths to keep details away from our Board of Directors and members. That is what caused some of us to spend some time trying to gather the facts. Many more questions should be asked and the findings of who was involved and how they may have profited personally should be made public in an investigative report.

The April 2012 E. C. minutes (page 14) still show the name of the company the ATA leased the property from as PULL LLC. I have been told that this mistake was brought to the attention of the ATA but I too have never found any correction. Those involved absolutely knew the correct name. It was on the lease agreement. I too have wondered if this was an intentional attempt to block researchers. There was a PULL LLC company registered to transact business in Illinois that was dissolved I believe in 2011. All searches for PULL LLC would yield a . . . . . . dead end. The ATA minutes, as of this morning 26FEB2019, still identify the company as PULL LLC.

​

 

If Lynn ( the Talking Head ) Gipson found the property while on the Pay roll of the ATA, then VP Rob Taylor gets the information and runs with it to make a (purchase) profit off the ATA ( Membership) there has to be a "Conflict of Interest" by one , two , maybe more of the EC and ED, lets say combined effort … The rent payments of $2,500 per month (Rent $12,500.00) (total,$27,537.22, plus the reimbursement $2,472.78, shows 5 rent payments before they even bought or held title to said property (How, oh How can that be ?) … The EC and many on the BOD have been taking advantage of the Membership for a lot longer than since the move to Illinois, it just seems to get more elaborate as time goes by …
If the AG of Ill did a investigation they certainly did not do a good job if they did not or could not see something of this nature, who knows what else ..? This might be a good time to get the Ill AG involved again and see if their findings get changed once these and probably many more facts get to be known … WPT … (YAC) …

 

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If anyone is interested :

 

You have many good questions wpt. I agree with you that Mr. Taylor's involvement was a conflict of interest and when it was found out the E.C. should have immediately conducted a hearing/investigation.

I don't believe the IL AG's office was very interested in the case. The matter was over by the time anyone put enough together to file a complaint. They didn't even care that 2012 PULL LLC was never registered to do business in their State.

The only thing I see that the IL AG investigation did was strongly recommend that the ATA amend their By-laws to permit the Presidents gun. This action was recommended years prior by ATA member Bob Glatz, who the ATA thought his many recommendations were unnecessary.

Something is really wrong though with the attitude of our leadership. If I was an E. C. member, a member of the Real Property Advisory Committee or Delegate, even today, and read and viewed the above documents, I'd be pretty upset that a former ATA President intentionally did not disclose his possible conflict of interest and I would call for an investigation on behalf of the Association and its members. At least a few should feel that our Association may have been hoodwinked.

Sadly, not one has any interest, all these years since.

 

What WAS the "ATA" ..... is NOTHING MORE than a group of Democrats in denial of their current status .....

It IS a give me FREE, and I will look the other way while you milk the cash cow Democratic Organization .....

FREE yardage back to the 25 .....

FREE yardage off up to the 19 .....

FREE unlimited Mulligan targets .....

FREE to pick your class in singles by eliminating minimum target requirements ......

FREE to pick your class in doubles by eliminating minimum target requirements ......

FREE to occupy the 27 for the rest of your life .....

FREE internet wifi at the grand .....

FREE elite camping spots at the grand for the who you know RV never-was faithful .....

FREE travel, food, and, and, and ..... ad nauseam .....

FWIW ..... I don't think any information will make the ATA lemmings give up the Bernie Sanders ideology of, FREE for me is money for you .....

When enough people get serious about a clean path forward for organized Trapshooting ..... by leaving the self-serving to their self-destruction ..... I would be willing to invest some of my time ..... Until then, the shock and awe time investment seems useless .....

 

The existing ATA can not be reformed. If they get away clean with this rip off of the organization, the members must leave the organization, and join an other. Every person on the EC at the time of this theft of funds is guilty, so are the complete BOD as they were not performing they duties of over sight. These persons should be expelled from any future associations where the shooting sports are practiced. There names should be published so honorable men will all know who they are.
The lowest member of the human race is a thief. This was thievery by deception. How can they trust one another now?
It is amazing what some will do for even a small amount of money. I guess they do not think their name is worth much, and it isn't.
Every major purchase they have made should be investigated, including trap machines. Roger C.

 

I like P.I.T.A.---Where the only hand in 'your' pocket--IS YOURS !!!

 

Has anyone ever noticed that not one of the higher ups in the ATA have ever come forward in an attempt to clarify, OR defend these actions of he past EC ???

I know they are well aware of what is being said on here but they know they were wrong and have no real defense OR explanation to offer us.

It's sad that the members could not look upon their leadership with respect.

 

The trend was set about 15 or 20 years ago. Every time one of their under the table deals is not found out it leads to more expensive actions. It moved into big time with the machine purchase deal. Every person that knew about the deals if they profited from it or not, is guilty of the same action. Evil will prevail, when honorable men do nothing.
Theft by stealth, or by deception, is still theft,and is not done by men of HONOR. Roger C.

 

Honor and Integrity has left the building, until they get prosecuted they will continue doing what they have been for years … The corruption started long before the move to Illinois by people lacking Honor and Integrity which is something you are born with or you don't have it at all … No body asks why the president of the ATA gets a $20,000 check (allocation) to use as he see's fit, wonder why that has never been questioned, that's along with the gun and paid expenses … WPT … (YAC) …

 

The actions of the State of Illinois prosecution on felonies kind of shows why the IAG didn't find any thing wrong with the way the ATA was doing business, if the case was handled the same way as the Smollett case was with regard to all of the charges that all of a sudden are gone .. WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Thirty eight posts -- all the facts in black and white -- and the Illinois AG has not done a thing? -- then comes out the Jussie Smollett story and everything becomes clear! -- ATA definitely pick the right state to move to!

 

I own several Kansas based companies. I have a friend in Texas with investment capital. I occupy an executive position in a non-profit doing business in Illinois and Ohio. In addition to the elected position, I serve on one or more committees. One such committee deals with real property. We have this Ohio office we need to move to Illinois. I have an idea. This could work out better than being Governor of illinois with a vacant seat in the US Senate if I play my cards right. I will form another company in Kansas and do some business in Illinois with the help of insider information.

Does anybody really believe the Kansas company owner did this as a means to assist the poor starving investor from Texas out of kindness? “I did not recuse myself from making any motions or voting upon any motions because I did not profit. My only motivation in my failed attempt in keeping my involvement secret was modesty. I did not want to receive any awards for my charitable good works or locating a property which could be purchased for less than the appraised value.

Well Mr. FBI man and Mr. Federal Prosecutor, listen to my side of things. Those audio tapes are misleading. Are you sure that is my voice talking about Obama’s vacant seat in the Senate?

What did anyone expect from the Kansas business owner? Confession is good for the soul? I kept my involvement secret because of my obvious conflict of interest Mr. Comptroller.

Mr. Federal Prosecutor, it was wrong of me to try and take a profit from my control over the filling of the vacant Senate seat. How soon can I tell the Federal Judge I am guilty on all counts?

Show me a property in a state near bankruptcy which is not appraised at a value higher than the fair market will support and I will show you a mating pair of unicorns.

The saddest part of this foul smelling tale is the statute of limitations. They exist in civil matters as well as in criminal matters. Most states place a two year statute of limitation on civil matters. Illinois could be different but greater than seven years is a stretch.

We have already seen the office of the chief law enforcement official of the state react to referrals regarding the ATA. The obvious conflict of interest, at the risk of repeating myself, is that in effect; the state moving against the ATA equates to the state moving against the state. It will be an embarrassing mess for them to explain in the media and the court of public opinion. It would be nothing like the reporter giving Gibson a friendly audience of one listener who also had press credentials.

 

A very good post Par4

You did however, leave out the notion that the "Conflict of Interest" policy contained too may big words for the average ATA member and/or Executive Committee member to comprehend. This, despite the fact that officers must annually sign this form, pledging they read and understood the policy.

The only saving Grace, though the despicable act has long been considered moot, is that the "Conflict of Interest" policy contains no provision regarding a statute of limitations.

Perhaps the current ATA President who often espouses his integrity will re-read the policy and call for the hearing that never was. Naaaah, somehow I don't think so.

​

Note: The Policy may have undergone amendments since this 2008 copy.

 

Good news I just heard that Jesse Smollett will be doing his community service this year at Sparta as assistant tournament director. Gipson can now work full time on his reality business and start that search for the next home grounds. Brad

 

@HistoryBuff

That policy is very educational HB. I do not think an ethical person needs a written policy to understand the definition of conflict of interest and the duty to disclose. However, the description of procedure in detail is of interest.

I wondered who else may have had prior knowledge. That policy demonstrates it does not matter. The minutes would seem to indicate the remainder of the EC to have, at a minimum, become accessories after the fact when one looks to the policy for guidance.

Now when I say accessories after the fact; I mean that in Webster’s Dictionary kind of way. I have no knowledge which would indicate it rises to a Title 18 Section 3 style failure.

The only way to have a chance to get to the truth of these matters is through depositions and following the money. Grand Juries can get there in criminal matters. They can also fail to get there.

Kind of makes me wonder about the motives of those who failed to act. Does the act of doing nothing indicate a possible animal survival instinct was in play? Why would willfull disregard of the duty to protect the tax exempt status of the collective seem preferable to the alternative of discipline?

 

There have been so many actions that go beyond the realm of reality that goes against a persons Moral fiber yet the IAG found nothing out of the way in the way of operations … If reasonable people look at this they can see its not logical or reasonable actions that were taken that goes against the Policy's as written … Take a look at how the case of CPD V Smolett and a person can see why nothing happened, corruption in its finest hour … WPT … (YAC) …

 

I've been told some of the current Executive Committee are aware of the deception. None seem willing to address the matter, which leaves those of us who have spent time to research the matter, scratching our heads in bewilderment?

And how are past E. C. members as well as every member of the Real Property Advisory Committee of the period able to remain silent when such deceitfulness happened right under their noses? I would be pretty ticked off and demand a full investigation but that's because my integrity would have demanded I do so.

The big question remains: Why didn't these ATA members in good standing and associated with 2012 PULL LLC, simply inform ATA officials about the "For Sale" sign on the property? Our Association could have purchased the property for a lot less. Remember, a Vice President knew this and as controlling owner of 2012 PULL LLC, remained silent while directing another ATA member from Texas on the lease and sale arrangements.

ATA Executive Director Gipson is a knowledgeable business man and one would have thought he might have asked who actually owned 2012 PULL LLC? Or, why these good ATA members didn't tell the ATA of the property? And certainly he would have insured the ATA was not paying an unfair price to lease it. Just two good questions could have brought everything into plain view or at least prompted additional questions.

In my view, all involved failed our association. They did not do what was in the best interests of the ATA. Yes, this includes our Board of Directors who we entrust to provide oversight. Wake up Delegates there's more to the job than wearing the hat and shirt.

So just to remind everyone of the main players were, I'll once again post the incorporation, reinstatement after somebody forgot to pay the annual fee and dissolution after making the one and only one big deal.

​

 

All men come into this world with a bare ass and a good name. Every one that knew of this deal, and did nothing to bring it to light is guilty of malfeasence in office. They are not fit to be in the company of honorable men.
Any man that does as they have, has no honor, and none of them can or should trust their co-conspiriters ever again. Shame on them. Roger C.

 

The Problem is the Authority's will not make a move to, if nothing else stop the flow of blood … This ED, EC, (as well as former EC and BOD) and many of the BOD will rot in the fires of Hell but that does not do the Association any good .. WPT … (YAC) …

 

@HistoryBuff

I would opine the alleged non-actor third parties did not remain silent. In my opinion, they spoke loudly in an abstract sense. They said they found the “officegate” affair acceptable by their failure to act.

Why would a person described as an elected official acquire a property with the intention to market the property in a clandestine manner to the charitable organization in which he/she served in a position of trust? The answer is greed.

Why would a person described as a member in good standing allow himself/herself to be used as a straw man to shield the involvement of the person serving in the position of trust? There had to have been incentive.

This brings us to the ED. The minutes reflect the elected official serving in the position of trust moved to employ the identified applicant as the ED. The same elected official, while serving in a specified committee assignment moved in favor of the specified property. It appears he located the property in a private capacity and studied the property suitability in an organizational capacity. The ED, by his public admission takes credit for locating the property. If my timeline is correct, his admission follows previous reporting found here. Please correct me if I am incorrect.

Now I have a hunch the ED did not wake up one morning in the yard at the address of the property, see a “for sale” sign and exclaim: it is a miracle. I have a hunch I might have liked hearing what the ED and the gift gun recipient had to say about a few things.

 

Reviewing ALL the minutes of any, and all board meetings since this arose back in 2012, I find NO mention of a 2012 PULL LLC !!!!!!!

All I can find is they bought the building from PULL LLC..

NOT ONE MENTION of a "2012" in any minutes, when mentioning the corporation that owned the building.

NOW, WILL someone with more intelligence than I have, please explain to me how this corporation of 2012 PULL LLC came into the picture when 2012, being the optimum part of the name, is not mentioned in any OFFICIAL, and APPROVED minutes ?.

Oh, by the way...I could not find anything about a PULL LLC ever owning said building, so how is it the Minutes of all meetings only refer to PULL LLC when referring to the building ????????????????????

I also know that Lynn Gipson had been notified and asked to have the minutes corrected to show the "2012" within the name....NEVER HAPPENED !!!!

Can anyone else smell these RATS ???

I got to tell you folks, this whole cover up pissed me off so badly, that I refuse to shoot another ATA event where these jokers will profit off my money.

 

@Brad's friend (I hope)

Maybe somebody with hard copy documents will assemble a formal request to amend the minutes with exhibits. They need to be delivered with signature required. Asking someone involved in less than ethical conduct in oral fashion to do the right thing nets no action. I would not expect a hired hand to go in and tell his five superiors of grounds for his dismissal.

I think physical addresses for the five stars are on the website. They may/may not know now. However, when August rolls around plausable deniability will no longer be a factor.

 

Seems like the more affluent an organization gets (money), the more corrupt it can get. All you need is a few egotists and things start to fall apart.

Regards.....Gerald

 

I had to study a little bit about corruption once upon a time. The major points I recall about that training indicated it begins in an incremental way with an individual or small group. Once others learn of the activity; some choices are presented. Those who learn of the practice can ignore the practice, act to stop the practice or participate. If the participate option is selected; it becomes like a contagious disease. At some point it becomes what is known as systemic corruption.

 

Some believe the name 2012 Pull LLC was carefully chosen. The names of Illinois corporations can easily be found at: http://secretaryofstates.com/illinois/

When searching the name Pull LLC (File No. 01424254) on the Illinois Secretary of State webpage, a company of that name can be found. Anyone searching for PULL LLC as recorded in the ATA's official minutes, would see a company that was dissolved in August 2011.

I've done this several times over the last few years and here's what still appears today.
This leads your search to a dead-end.

​

Was this company name chosen for this reason? Was using the name Pull LLC in the ATA's minutes a mistake or intentional? Not one of our elected ATA officials has asked.

And as reported, 2012 Pull LLC failed to register with the State of Illinois so its corporation could never be located. Who would ever think of looking for it as a Kansas corporation. Some pretty astute people in my view.

Regardless of a mistake or intentional, if the ATA was informed of the mistake in the minutes, the correction should have been made. They are supposed to be official aren't they?

HB

 

And if I am correct, your ATA Secy. is an attorney ?

Boy, this "Mistake" wouldn't be something I would want hanging for long. I would have the minutes corrected upon FIRST notice.

AND, I have it on good authority that the ATA (through Mr. Gipson) was in fact notified, and asked that the minutes be corrected.

IS THIS THE ATA SECY. ? Just asking !!!

Products & Services
Hunter H. Galloway III, Attorney offers Real Estate Law Specialist- over 30 years experience ~~~~~~~~ HUH????

IF this is one and the same, he should have caught that "Mistake" right off.

ATA Secretary: Hunter Galloway III. Greensboro, NC .

 

Thank you HB for this information.

Yep, does sound suspicious in nature.

Wouldn't you think that ONCE, just ONCE, some one of the EC would stand up at a meeting and ask that those minutes be corrected, ask some questions as to why has this "mistake" gone on for so long, and just what the hell REALLY happened throughout all of the negotiations on this property in question.

More and more members are coming forth and Asking about these unanswered questions, but nothing get's done.

Hell of a way to run a corporation.

 

@Brad's friend (I hope)

I think the former resident and businessman from MO would be one of the last persons on earth to have a motive to correct the minutes. The division of responsibilities suggest to me he also lacks standing to do so. He could notify the EC or not and he could notify the Secretary or not.

I think the Secretary may be able to change the minutes on his own or not. However, since I imagine the minutes were previously “accepted;” a motion of an EC member and a majority vote of the EC would be needed. Does that make sense?

Now my next questions are these:

Is the Secretary today also the Secretary who “recorded” the minutes sought to be corrected?

Is the position of Secretary a paid position?

Does the Secretary, who is also an attorney provide legal services to the organization or is he/she on retainer in the event his legal services are required?

Is the Secretary, who is also an attorney admitted to practice law in Illinois and such other jurisdicttions where meetings are held?

Does the Secretary attend all meetings or is a recording submitted to his/her state of residence where licensed to practice law?

I think I now see the mechanism for the change (need to know basis) of the “completeness” of the minutes today as compared to those days when Trap and Field was not owned by the ATA. The minutes are sanitized and scrubbed with omissions which serve as redactions with no need for a black magic marker.

 

If each member donated $10.00 to a (FUND) we would have enough money to get an honest investigation of the ATA operations. If there are no shady deals in the closet, the EC should also donate as this would clear the air about scams on their part. If they are found guilty of unlawful dealings then, justice should be served. Roger C.

 

I'm in WPT … (YAC) …

 

We had Frank Rively-he didn't last long. Wonder why?

 

Frank tried to look behind the curtain.

Literally

 

The A.G. in any state can inquire about the ATA. It does business in every state. A FUND ME could very well get started, if enough members are interested. Roger C.

 

TTT

 

MOST members probably do not know anything about these goings on.

And I doubt very much that MOST would even give a damn.

As long as they have a place to "register" their targets, why worry ?

It's the same old, same old from MOST members...

Their feelings are: As long as someone else does the work so I can play, I won't shake any bushes.

 

How true means we're preaching to a choir.

 

We are going in a fantastic direction
Amen brother
We have sixty thousand members
Oh yes, tell us, how good we have it
This place in IL is the blessing
Lordy Lordy, preach it brother, we are in the promised land
I found us a building for our office
Knew you could, you da man, Amen
We can buy it as soon as I tell a guy I know
Right on brother, do that thing you do so well
Now, it might cost us a little more than what they were asking but I'm still going to get a great deal on it
Praise Jesus, you do whatever you want. We are good with whatever you tell us, lead us to prosperity
I will brothers and sisters, I surly will. Now let me warn you, there are people out there that will tell you this deal smells, that it isn't right that I told someone else before I told the congregation, but I'm sure you all don't mind right?
No brother, we don't mind. We don't have to know any details. We are your sheep, lead us, Amen
I will always take care of you and all the sixty thousand plus members of my flock
Amen, praise you my brother
Are there any questions any of my flock have?
Yes my brother, you in the back with the ATS hat
Yes my brother, I have a question.
What in the hell do you mean, YOU TOLD SOMEONE ELSE BEFORE YOU TOLD THE PEOPLE THAT HAD YOU LOOKING FOR A BUILDING?
Any other questions? No? Bless you all and keep the faith!
Excuse me, you didn't answer my question
My brother, please trust me, there are some things you get to know about and some you don't. This is one of those things you don't.
You all have a great day, I know I will.

 

Now where have we heard this before ? ha ha ha

 

Flyersarebest, The whole EC board along with many other had to be in on the scam over the building. If they were not they are the dumbest group in the world. What needs to happen is for one of them to get in the jack pot and tell to get a lighter sentence. The machine deal probably cast the Corp. more than 10 times as much as the building. Roger C.

 

I am certain based on what is known; there are other matters in the executive universe just as ugly but yet to be known outside the inner sanctom. However, along the way in my journey: I learned a couple of expressions. One is true and one is false:

I am from Washington and I came to help.

Sometimes, the cure is worse than disease.

On behalf of those who are thankful to have a competitive trap opportunity nearby and not online to speak; a high degree of care needs to be exersized. I am all for the discovery of the truth. It was the original goal of our adversarial system. However, government intervention can really screw things up in many instances. We used to say the dedicated being led by the ignorant. Think about fast and furious and apply the lesson from that to this ATA factual scenario.

This may have sounded strange to those coming to this discussion from private industry. Those with a lifetime of goverment service will know exactly of what I speak.

 

Par4,

You Sir bring a lot good thoughts to this thread.

We thank all involved for their discussion contributions.

We all feel the same way as you, and this is why we have worked so hard to present "TRUTHS" to the members.

Something we had wished the ATA officials had done years ago.

The problem today is that the original people involved in these goings on, IE: Property and machine purchases, have since been passed down the line and we cannot blame the current administration for previous wrong doings. Members can only go forward with the hopes that the current administration will realize they are being watched more closely.

 

"However, government intervention can really screw things up in many instances."

What would be your concern about "government intervention really screwing up" this train wreck ????? something personal ?????

The "government" could not "screw things up" in any way that would disappoint or effect me ..... would it you, for some reason ?????

Spending years "uncovering the truth", to just drop everything doesn't seem to be a very wise time investment .....

If this has been a game of "truth" with no consequences ..... shame on me for participating .....

 

A couple of years before PipeLayer became president, he told me via electronic communications that quote: "in the last 10 years there have committees put in place that police every action taken and every dollar spent . The I’ll, attorney general gave the ATA a clean slate."

PipeLayer's quote should put everyone's mind at ease that trust in ATA management was restored 10 years ago when these oversight committees were formed - NOT !

Does the ATA rule book identity the names of these new oversight committees, the members on each committee and their authority ? Or is just another case of the fox protecting the hen house ?

Note: all emphasis above in bold and underline is mine.

 

Is this like seeing pcs. I wonder how much a clean slate costs in Ill. Roger C.

 

Garry,

Every incoming ATA President names his selections for the committee at the annual E.C. meeting during the Grand American tournament. I used the term "selections" lightly because some committees are made up with past ATA Presidents.

You can see the various committees and the names those serving in every E.C. meeting August minutes. Last years minutes (online) show the committees starting on page 33. So you say Pipelayer, present ATA President said :
"in the last 10 years there have committees put in place that police every action taken and every dollar spent . The I'll, attorney general gave the ATA a clean slate."

Well, I'll make two quick points to show how wrong he really is.

First, while he is correct that there are committees in place to police every action and dollar spent, it means nothing when those committees fail to conduct due dilligence, deciding to just rubber-stamp their approval. A prime example would be how the Real Property Advisory Committee failed to uncover the conflict of interest of an Executive Committee member in the leasing and eventual purchase of the current ATA office property.

Secondly, President Pipelayer just as those Presidents before him, decided to keep Rob M. Taylor on the Real Property Advisory Committee, even after he snookered them and made them look like sleeping bafoons. You'll find his name at line 1219 on page 35 of the August 2018 E. C. minutes.

Controller Michael Howell was the only official interested enough to question Mr. Taylor about his involvement with 2012 Pull LLC. Where were the other E.C. members, the E.D., the secretary who reviewed the lease, and that astute committee called the Real Property Advisory Committee, put in place to "police every action and every dollar spent"?

When it was learned that Mr. Taylor failed to exercise good judgement by adhering to the conflict of interest policy, he should have been removed from all committees. Yes, he should also have been admonished and suspended for a period of time for potentially placing the ATA's 501c3 status in jeopardy. I've never cared for sneaky people but I guess President Pipelayer doesn't share my opinion.

 

Is there no honor left in those (MEN) and I use this term lightly.
If you commit a dishonest action, and others know of the offence, they are equally guilty. It is called aiding and abetting.
These are the most disgusting acts any person can do, when supposedly serving on a non profit committee as volunteers.
Honest men entrusted them with the protection of our association and they bypassed that honor for personal gain. They do not deserve to be called men. Roger C.

 

What REALLY surprises me is that ANYONE is surprised at what these guys have been doing.

WOW I CAN'T BELEIVE IT!

HOLY SMOKE, HOW IN THE WORLD DID THAT HAPPEN?

REALLY, REALLY? THEY DID WHAT? I CAN'T BELEIVE IT.

THEY DID WHAT?

THE OUTGOING PRESIDENT GETS A FREE GUN? I NEVER KNEW THAT, ARE YOU SURE?

Nothing surprises me when it comes to the ata hierarchy. There were always rumors about one deal or another going on from as far back as the late 70's.

Walks like a duck?

 

Q: “What would be your concern?”
A: Most likely plural they would be.

Statement: “The government could not screw things up in ANY manner that would disappoint or effect (sic) me.”

You might think about innocent third parties user one. The success or failure of the government in criminal justice matters directed at the responsible individuals would be one thing. The effect upon a body of individuals who fit the description of dues paying members who have had no role in the commission of an offense related to the administration of the body is another matter. I think Brad’s Friend recognizes what a minimum/maximum of one user may not.

Q: Do you have any personal concern about the government screwing things up par four?
A: I may have seen the government make a mistake once or twice. I think most folks in the private sector are willing to admit they have seen some instances live as they happened in real time while viewing from home. Others may have only viewed material previously recorded.

Q: Would the government screwing up affect you in any negative way par four?
A: I would again refer you to the innocent third party reference previously mentioned.

 

Well Par4 ..... you may want to re-think your "innocent third parties" view .....

ANYONE who chooses to support the "responsible individuals", with "dues", "fees", or any other type of support, when the "truth" about the "responsible individuals" actions/dealings has been made public for YEARS, gives up their "innocent third party" status, and becomes an enabler for future actions/dealing equal to or worse than what the past "truth" has shown .....

You may consider yourself a "third party", but, "innocent" is far from any reality of your enabling actions .....

 

@User 1

I have no interest in golf. I started shooting in a region with lots of ATA and NSSA venues near. Neither are near to me now.I drive considerable distance to shoot and do so for a minumum of three consecutive days. Three days of shooting is five days away from home for me. I have no interest in doing such travel for practice.

If I resided in one of those areas of the country with a trap club in the pasture on the right and the corn field on the left leaving town in all four directions; things might be different. Lots of things may be wrong at the top of more than one organization in the universe. However, I have no interest in carrying a vendetta against them around with me.

The term selected to describe simple members of the ATA is most often used today in connection with friends and family. Despite knowledge of potential harm to the friend or the family member, habitually assist the relation along the path of their own self destructive behavior. It sounds like you may want to enable those for whom you harbor the excessive ill will expressed. Once destruction is accomplished; another windmill can be selected.

 

It is a shame Par4, that you feel the current ATA leadership can do nothing to deter your personal needs .....

You have to live with the fact that enabling those who have self-serving interests, like yourself, is somehow worth lowering yourself to their level .....

Shoot well and often ..... but NEVER ask others to back-off for your personal needs .....