To make the change to more competitive targets, Is going to take a letter writing campaign by us shooters who are looking after our Sport Of Trapshooting. Write to the ATA Office at Amateur Trapshooting Association 1105 East Broadway Sparta, Illinois 62286 Asking for the ATA targets to be returned to 44 degree angle and 50-52 Yards. This is the only way anything is going to be changed, the power of the Mail
Well I think you are finally getting it. A grass roots movement Address you letters to the President (Rob Taylor) Be clear in what you want 44 degree angle ie 3 hole target. and 50-52 yards. Don't ramble on or name call. Don't be-little any past presidents. Stay with the single issue. Don't go after shell speed, the 18 yard line etc Good luck
Good Idea, I'm gonna e-mail them that tell them what a great job they are doing! Thanks Gary, for the idea.
Absolutely , if someone wants the same softer targets that they like it would be silly of them to want something harder. Flyersarebest, But I'm Still a Trap Shooter
In all reality Whishbone gave some good business advice. Keeping it professional will get more attention than rambling on other issues. Too bad we get posts that are on the verge of belittlement.
I like your idea Leondias. I feel the targets that are being thrown at the present time are very sufficient. Ross Randall.
I don't know if this was directed at me but if it is the answer is probably not. When I WAS shooting 4000 to 5000 16's per year I might have 3 or 4 hundred straights and ten plus 99's. Never carried a 98 average. Usually ended up in AA but not setting the place on fire. In 1996 I shot at 500. Between 1997 and 2012, 15 years, I shot at 500 more. The last two hundred I shot at I broke a 98 and a 99. Not bragging, or patting myself on the back. Just telling you my scores. How in the world, after not registering any targets for all those years does that happen? I'M NOT THAT GOOD ANYMORE ! Something had to help. What do you think helped me do that? Please name ANYONE that breaks 100 EVERY TIME. Flyersarebest
Oh no it wasn't aimed at anyone in particular. The thing is if you aren't hitting 100 every time what does it make a difference if it stays the way it is or they make it harder and you even hit less targets. I would think the same people that are winning now will win even if they are harder or easier. Big deal, shot em and have fun. This dead horse has been beaten to a pulp.
History has shown that to be false. There would be fewer perfect scores if any from the 27. There would be fewer 200's. There would be fewer shootoffs.
Fargo 2, I disagree. With all the advancements in gun adjustability and instructional clinics etc., today's shooters have a very high skill level compared to a lot (not all, obviously) of yesterday's shooters. The assertion that the rash of grand slams has more to do with easy targets than the skill of the shooter is an illusion. You don't shoot 100 from 27 yards if you are not doing everything right-seeing the target perfectly, making a smooth controlled move to that target while staying on the gun, and perfectly pointing that target 100 times. To say that shooting 100 from 27 yards is a fluke, or somehow not deserved if 2 hole targets are shot, is a theory spawned of jealousy. There may indeed be fewer 100s in handicap and fewer 200s in singles, but I'm here to tell you that you would be surprised how few of these elite shooters would be effected by 3 hole 50 yard targets and how many B class 22 yarders would turn into C class 20 yards.
Jo2- - -It is not just because of the easy targets but as you say the better equipment. We do have that thing called the plastic wad now. And then there is the issue of the 3 1/4 dram shells we allow now. I understand your friends in your area mostly like the easier xxxxx targets. It fails me to understand why. We know Taylor wants easier targets. The ATA better makes some changes soon. I can think of other reasons to shoot another orgs targets other than just this issue. I know I am not alone.
"With all the advancements in gun adjust-ability and instructional clinics etc." The crap about the 'guns-of-today' being 'better-equipment' because they 'adjust' is just very good marketing. The 'ability' of someone teaching you in a day or two, what took them years to accomplish, is pure BS. Look at the early records of these magic-sellers, they didn't 'start' on top any more than anyone else. They worked hard like those spending money with them should. The 'shooters-of-old' would make their gun fit, and just shoot. The crap of a fully-adjustable shotgun being something great is just the shotgun manufacturers selling a pipe-dream. A 'good-shooter' is good .... then, now, and in the future. The 'want-to-be' gets sold snake-oil cures for a LOFT problem.
Jo2: I disagree, the wider angles, and longer distance targets are in the favor of the short yardage shooter, Look back over the history of the GAH winners, most are short yardage shooters. I may be stepping in a BEES NEST but maybe they were ( targets) changed to get more 27 yard shooters in the winning column of the only event they do not dominate, and that is GAH wins, they only started winning when the targets were made easier. I believe the short yardage shooters dominated the 44 degree, 50-52 yard targets, they the short yardage shooters were winning non-registered calcuttas by wide margins. What evened that up a lot was when they (non registered) made it 25 targets from what you broke on the 16s, 25 straight got you 25 yd hdcp, 27 yd shooters still had to shoot 27 yds, it was the short yardage shooter who got penalized, and that's a fact. Were the angles made easier just for the long yardage shooters? Yes I believe so. Dr.longshot
I have to agree, it would take a "grass roots" action to make any change. Just think about it, "the cream always rises to the top" the best will prevail and many more will end up down a class or two and moving closer to the trap house. "Would such a change make the game any better?" If your in the game for Glory, take up another sport. Chances of climbing into that catagory at trap are almost impossible. There are a few "Naturals", but not many. When the Professional Catagory was discontinued, the sponsers just faded into the shadows a bit. They still supply the elite to keep their products in the lime light.
User1: Those adjustments that were made standard, like 4 way adj. comb, Adj LOP made a gun that could be tuned in by the shooter, and choke tubes for his hdcp distance, Plus adj. Ribs , if he took the time to know and see what the adjustments could do, over an off the shelf Std non-adj. Stock. They the factory adj. gun made a tremendous difference Dr.longshot
The Caesar Guerini was the most adjustable trapgun, out of the box to shoot 120%+, over any gun until just lately, the Zoli Z Trap will shoot 150%+, I know this to be a fact as it took Blaser 4 Bbls to get me one that shot at their Height Spec. Same for the K-80, same for the KOLAR, they had to make spec ribs. I have to make an exception here as my 1st Design Blaser un-single would shoot 150%, becuase the rear adj wheel would take the rib an extra 1/4" above the last height marks. I am going to get a lot of flak here on this, and I have known them all, and all the Mfgrs, and rib installers know how high a gun I shoot, Keith Spreager at Kolar knows because he had me shoot a gun they built for Alcoriza in Ca. and it shot low for me in their Tunnel. He had me pattern it on paper, for me it was just over 100%. He walked away shaking his head and told the owners son my results in the tunnel, I forgot his name, sorry Dr.longshot
The Silver Seitz feels and fits me like a Model 12, that is why my best averages and wins were with one, I need to get one back. Dr.longshot
I have an idea lets make continental the standard. I love continental shooting. I fail to see why it makes any difference at all. The person that shoots 23 consistently with 3 hole and then shoots 24 consistently with 2 hole would be the same as with the guy that shoots 20 with 3 hole and 21 with 2 hole. The shell, everyone has the same choice. I'm probably confused but it seems the same to me.
Family Guy, I see the 3 1/4dr shell issue has reared its ugly head again. Tell me, will one of those fast shells break a target that was not properly pointed? As to the targets that we shooting my area, I am sure that they are the same as the ones that you shoot-49 yard 2 hole. Rob Taylor mentioned reducing the distance single targets are thrown at a meeting about 3 years ago. It was discussed and rejected by the BOD. It has never been mentioned again at any ATA meetings. The only place it seems to have a life is on this forum where it is brought up over and over again, ad nauseam.
Jo2- - -Is there anyone else on planet earth that thinks their slowwwwer shells will reap bigger scores? I doubt too many here buy that crap. Maybe you need the slowwwer forum. When Taylor last mentioned wanting fluffier targets he wasn't President of the ATA. Since then he has waited his turn for his gun and the big dollars. Now what?
Family Guy, is there any one else on planet earth that that thinks that a point that results in a miss with 3 dram shells would achieve a different result using faster shells?
That is my point Family Guy, I use 3 dram shells, and have been on 27 yards for 29 years (been reduced once for 600 targets). I used the old Winchester Silver bullets for a couple of years, but since the hulls have changed, I use 3 dr shells only. My point in all of this is, I really don't think I would shoot any better with the faster ammo.
The only competition I won I was shooting my own loads at 1080fps and will be lower my speed this year close to that.
Lefty: The dram eq, is and was the SAAMI std for shell speeds, The speeds just do not come out of the air. JO2: That depends on that shooters pointability, everyone is different., The speed of the targets have an effect, the pointability of the shooter, is he a quick target acquiring ability shooter, or a slow one?
We've gotten off the subject. IF YOU WANT THE 44 DEGREE 50-52 YARD TARGETS. PLEASE WRITE THAT LETTER TO THE ABOVE ATA ADDRESS TO THE ATTN: OF THE BOD & EC PLEASE RETURN TO THE 44 DEGREE 50-52 YARD TARGETS GARY BRYANT DR.LONGSHOT
Writing the ATA will most likely not get a rule change. It will alert personnel of the desire which will be passed onto the executive director who will discuss with executive committee provided there is a substantial volume to indicate a change is warranted. The executive committee then will send results of discussion to the delegates requesting them to have an open or tabulated vote at their state meeting. Then return with results to the Grand and seek discovery at the zone meeting. If the zone meetings results in strong favoritism for such a change, it will then be put on the floor for vote at yearly meeting. A faster, more efficient, and possibly more recognized approach would be to convince your state delegate of the need who if accomplished can proceed to try and gain favoritism from delegates in his zone. If within the zone it is desired, your zone can make a motion at the Grand meeting and thus call for a vote on the issue.
By having written requests to the ATA and delegates would at least have more of a chance for a motion at the ATA meeting at the Grand. If this is what shooters want then the more shoters involved would increase the chance of succeding or failing as the majority rules. If this comes to a motion and vote perhaps we can resolve this issue for the next few years.
Agreed, if shooters want a change contact your delegate and the EC. CC any and all members of the EC and BOD. Put it in writing, at least then they can't say no one has had a concern with 2 hole vs 3 hole since 1996. Nothing will change without getting the conversation started with the right people. Clearly the last 5-10 years of whining on TS.com have accomplished nothing. Good luck and don't be surprised if the 2 hole shooters push back.
