In the process of Installing a Red Dot Site on a Ljutic

Don't thank me, the Great late Frank little told me that decades ago. He told me that he would would always open his eyes real wide before calling for a target, just so he would not blink. That target could move 4 to 5 feet in a ''blink of an eye''.
I don't think a paper target would...then again it would depend if your shooting east or west due to the Coriolis effect of the earths rotation.
This is what happens when i've had too many cups of coffee, start posting like a know it all.

 

That BIG DON guy didn't believe Doc either.

 

The odds of that happening are about the same odds that one of the presidential gun recipients will come on here and tell us all, I would think even you would want to know, why he DESERVED to get that gun.

 

I thought the subject was mounting a Red dot on a Ljutic? --What does pattern have to do with a Red dot sight? --What is the difference between a $150 Red dot and the $30 Red dot Doc's using? -- Glass verses plastic refection plates? --Brighter dot in bright light? --Mounting distance difference? -- Putting one together --Trying to do it right the first time

 

Flyersarebest: I'll accept those replies from a moderator as a definitive answer to the question.

rrisum: The subject is about mounting a red dot on a Ljutic. The pattern issue arose when the red dot mounted Ljutic began shooting implausible patterns. The difference between a $150 RD and a $30 RD is probably not a whole lot, depends on the make and luck of the draw. If you're interested in a RD that will hold up to volume trapshooting, provide rock solid sight adjustments and a dependable battery life that will literally last for years (unless the battery leaks) expect to shell out 500 +.
Go with the models with tempered glass. Dot brightness should be adjustable and consider the dot MOA/size, 1-9 or thereabouts. Mounting systems, there's a variety out there, much better than were available a few years ago, likely better than drilling holes in a Ljutic rib. Use caution if you post a picture of one, it may get deleted as an advertisement.

 

I have "content" deleted all the time by "others" ...... NO BIG DEAL ...... you will do well to let it go ......

 

OK by me. I don't speak for anyone on here except myself.

Now lets see if we get an answer from the PRESIDENTIAL GUN grabber.

 

TY Smitty

GB....................DLS

 

I liked the Large PRISM on my CP, Center Point #70301 33mm

GB...............................DLS

 

I have N1H1 on Ignore, had enough of his sarcasm on my patterns, he and I shoot a lot differently, I am a spot shooter which is a lot faster. Graphs are great when you put in correct information, but I could care less about them unless they are about Gas Mileage, My 2015 Nissan Altima w/cruise set on level ground/hiway I get 44.6 mpg 2.5 4 cyl engine.

GB............................DLS

 

This is a great thread Dr. Longshot. How did you measure the diameter
of the 21” max pattern shot at 35 yards?

 

Shot string is somewhat lengthened by the tighter choke extends it going thru the choke, The CG Choke tubes do not have a short Constriction, as the tubes are very long, and their Bbls are tapered from Chamber to the tube, The mfgr gives those measurements, I discovered those patterns on my New CG, as I bought one of the first sold and had a release in mine 2 + years ahead of their Factory Releases. I let shooters shoot my CG Release to see if they liked it. I like a Half fast Release, The ideal release is 1/2 of the set, a 3 lb set would be 48.0z set, 24 oz release, I prefer the 56 oz set and 28oz release, with no over travel, and a slight creep about .010 thsndths let off, You do not ease off a release, You point your trigger finger at the target, it comes to you automatically, If you ever owned a Silver Seitz, you could see how Richie sets them up, by taking the side plate cover off. Once they are set and the set screws tightened they Will Not Change, has been my expierence. Mr. Seitz put a lot of work in designing his PLUNGER TRIGGER, which operates like a rifle trigger.

GB......................DLS

 

So someone on your ignore list can still post on you r thread ? What a shame.

DLS, are you a two eyed shooter?

 

Yes, I have always been a 2 eyed shooter. Even with the Red Dot Site.
I just Refinished My Ljutic Stock & Forend, and Installed Brass Screw Inserts for the Recoil Pad 10-32x 1 1/4" Phillips Head screws.

GB..............................DLS

 

there are 428 # 7.5 3% antimony pellets in 1 1/8th oz shot, there are more in Magnum Hard Shot, You Guys got that Right Now? 492 grs in 1 1/8th oz shot, The Grand American Shells are a little heavier approx 505 grains avg., i've weighed them, Federal Grand Shells.

GB...........................DLS

 

It\f some one is losing 21.4% of their shot in a 30 inch circle w/a full choke tube, he better find a BETTER CHOKE TUBE MAKER, sure it wasn't a modified, or a mis marked tube, or opened choke on a fixed choke tube.@ 40 yards my patterns are done at 35 yards, the distance I make most shots at., Amateurs make theirs at 45+ yards targets are dropping, PRO's targets are rising when shot.

GB.........................DLS

 

Thought the same thing about the 21.4%. I would send my Briley choke back if it did that poorly when marked full.

 

I'll be glad to...right after the weather reaches 80 with little wind and after you give gun back.

 

Plus it will only be 1 shot, unless the ATA changes rule to allow 5 shots per target.

 

DR, I have some questions about the sight itself? Have you experienced any issues with fogging? Is it illuminated red/green or other, and do you find it washes out against certain backgrounds? What reticle is it(sorry if that's been asked)? As for the patterning, I never read more into it than POI, as I'm not analytical enough to try and think all the #'s thru. Plus explaining how my Kolar .750 bore .20 choke patterns better than the .25 and .30 would cause me a migraine. Any way, wish you well with it and if I ever get back to the CC, would love to shoot it!!!

 

the lens is open to the atmosphere, and it does not fog over, if I left in in the Cold trunk of the car it would clear up in minutes taking it inside, You have 8 Reticles 4 Green & 4 Red, Dot, Circle w/Dot, cross hairs, Circle with Cross hairs on outside edge of the circle, I use the DOT, move to target and release the trigger, POI is 100% above the target, same as me using the front sight, target is on the rise. Thanks Your welcome to shoot it at the CC !!!

GB...........................DLS

 

DedPAIR: This is not the ROUND RED DOT, if you google search CP/Center Point Mod#701301 you will see what it looks like. Dave Berlet did a Fantastic Job on my Adj. Comb Job, the long Pins Support is extra strong, as you can see, the 3 nylon washers puts the lens perfectly to center of my eye, what got me, was the settings I thought would be what I wanted, was perfect, I only fired one shot at the paper target at 35 yards and it was perfect, and I mean PERFECT. Precision. Having done this previously made it easier, I would like to know how Fred Wenig did with the earlier one He Bought from me at the Missouri Handicap.

GB...........................DLS

 

Doc --- Picking up my #70301 today --- your tip was right on where to get it ---..Mount is in the machine shop-- My question is ---- this being your second one made what would the optimum eye relief be? Closer is better?

 

RD shooters,

Have you considered that using the sight picture required of a
traditional trap barrel is no longer necessary with the use of a red dot?

Since the view of the bottom of the target is not obscured when using
an RD, rising targets (straight away or angling) can be led by placing the dot above
the bird relative to the direction of flight.

There is no longer a physical need to aim beneath the bird in order to keep it in sight.
Depending on your technique, a POI dialed in that is substantially above the
POA may no longer be necessary.

 

Another thing I like about mine, which i absolutely MUST have since mine is mounted 13'' above barrel is it's parallax free. I have no stock to center my eye. The RD stays centered with the axis of the barrel no matter if my eye is centered or not. It's neat to look thru when moving my head up or down or side to side. The sides of the scope housing will change in relation to target...but RD stays centered on target or more precisely said, same axis as barrel.
Also I'm a two eyed shooter ever since I first started shooting in the early 70's. There is nothing obstructing my view.
When I'm shooting it's like looking at one of those wall charts with the dot on the money side of the clay.
So far i have 2 guns with these pedestal 13'' high RD scopes. One is about 5'' further from my eye then the other, they both shoot just fine.

 

-- Won't the same thing apply if you adjust your POI to compensate for the rise and put the circle on your target and pull the trigger?

 

Dot on the bird, that seems to me to be the easiest and most precise sight picture for a straight away climbing target. Lateral targets still need an appropriate lead.

I think some shooters who have a POA set below the bird don't take that into account on targets going left and right and have a tendancy to simply lead the target with the result being a not well centered hit or overshot.

Not so much of a problem if POA is on the clay or the leading edge.

 

I have about 5 inch Eye Relief, may increase it this Spring when it gets warmer, While waiting for warm weather, I refinished the Forearm and Stock, using spray Polyurathane. I have to wait a week from Tomarrow to shoot, 2nd Sunday.

GB..........................DLS

Monte: You need to shoot a Red Dot site that has been setup to your style of shooting, Remember now MY POI is 18" Inches High. I use the CIRCLE and the DOT, CIRCLE For 16s. The DOT for Handicap from the 27 yd line.

GB.........................DLS

 

I agree Closer is better you want recoil clearance. The Picanniny base is the best, the thin one, I had to return the 5/8"in one that Brownells sent me, He was on the wrong page in my description to him.

GB.........................DLS

 

When you get your mount all set up and drilled, put some Clear Silicone on the base, and when you get it tightened up, Wipe off the Excess w/paper Towel, that makes it really secure. I bought a small tube at Walmart it is a 2.8 ounce tube, you don't need much..

GB................................DLS

 

I can't tell where to put your Dot, You may like the Circle the best, I have my DOT set for a 18"in high pattern above the ROUND target on paper, But when shooting you just see the RIM of the target, That you will have to work out on your own.

GB...........................DLS

 

ROOKIE: The older short choke tubes in TIGHT chokes made longer shot strings, that's a MECHANICAL action, it jammed the pellets together by making/forcing the shot fit in with the group therefore making the shot LONGER stretching the mass by a few thousandths
that force is continued by the speed, and then hitting the AIR MASS stretching it further, I am guessing 12-18 inches long at 40 yards, now that is a pure guess, the newer large bores .740 vs the .730 tight bore, the longer choke tubes tamed the shot string to be shorter, lengthening the full choke compression over 3.5 inches, If we could coat the shot with a reflective coating and shooting at night with a powerful light projecting where the shotstring is being shot and using a high speed film running while firing the shell w/those pellets we could see how long that shot string really is using different choke designs and choked Bbls.

 

Thanks Doc and this form for all the help and inspiration to give it a try myself -- I converted my old left hand goose gun to a back up trap gun five years ago with a Jack west stock and a step rib trap barrel . -- After reading your posts I just had to give it a try myself -- started with a Remington picanniny factory scope mount -- cut three inches of the front and welded to the back end using a nine inch aluminum key stock as a stiffener -- then I milled.035 of six inches of the underside to except .045 3M double sided automotive tape to tape down 6 1/2 of the front keystock - Then tapped a 10-32 screw in the front end > pulled the trigger pins and installed bolt through the trigger assembly --laser sighted --Ready to shoot tomorrow --Thanks again for all your help! -- Should have retired five years ago.--Didn't know it would be this much fun.

 

You are going to like it, Good set-up

GB.............................DLS

 

Your Eye Relief looks a little close, how much clearance do you have, depends on you mount.

GB..................................DLS

 

In the far back slot I have five inches to the lens per your advice -- Which putts the back of the red dot body at two and a half inches -- Shot ok so far?? -- also went with your advice of the 70301 red dot which is longer than high priced red dots but the larger lens is a much better trade off -- I have always heard good trap shooters talking about looking under the barrel --Which I never could do -- With this set up you actually can--With the five inch eye relief on the sixteen yard line you can see Four feet above and below the target dot and even wider horizontally --And out at thirty yard you have a twelve foot vertical and fourteen to sixteen foot horizontal view in the lens --I reinstalled at the rear most Remington factor slot to see if all my extra work was worth it . Sure enough you tips where spot on -- At the factory setting it cuts down your field of vison through the lens drastically --- I do have a lot of adjustment in-between to fine tune --Will shot it through the winter to see if it will move up in my gun rotation- Thank again

 

rrisum: I am glad it worked out. You see how easy it is to pick up the bird, Dontcha just love that CP70301 Red Dot, be careful w/with the Plastic lens, keep the Protector on it when not shooting. Have you shot much Handicaps with it it yet? Are you using the Small Red Dot? I first saw these in use at the Las Vegas Fall Hdcap, a man and wife team had them on their low priced Trapguns and both broke 25 straight from the 27, total smoke balls, no chips..Their guns were SKB's this was 20 years ago too. I was one of the first back here in Ohio to have one, This CP70301 is superior to that first red dot site.

GB...........................DLS

 

One club is closed for the winter -- My other club is only open one night a week -- Sitting hear looking at a snow storm --Will play with it over the winter with all the different dot ..--I think after the first time out --the brightness setting is going to be more important to me than the dot design .--started with too bright of dot --Kinda like when they first came out with the front fiber optic front sight -- I would see the sight more than the bird -- I think the design is spot on thank to your help Doc --. the rest will be a learning curve -- That's what's fun with being retired plenty of time to play with it-

 

Thank You and God Bless your efforts, I know the price of being retired, I use mine constructively just like you. It's nice using Our Learning Curve. Age is just a number. ED is now somewhat corrected w/new developments.

GB..................................DLS

 

I mounted Red Dot on 3 different guns: BT99, Browning 725 and Franchi (field gun).
for the first 2 guns I used product named Rib Rider (here is a link: https://www.aimtech-mounts.com/rib-rider-shotgun-mounts/). Very simple and easy way, comes with 2 sizes of the rib (Remington version ~8mm rib, Mossberg version ~10 mm rib). No need to drill the rib.

Burris FastFire 3 was mounted on the top of the rib.

On Franchi I mounted it on the comb (here is a link to the pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/65692497@N05/sets/72157662506078141/with/23781334972/). Fun to shoot, the only problem - Franchi has really 'hard' trigger.

Burris FastFire 3 is about $250, but it well worth the money. It has adjustable screws with clicks and scale, so you can even change POI during shooting - take only couple seconds.
My model has 3 MOI, but I wish to try 8 MOI.

 

Dimak: That's great, I looked at the Burris Fast Fire, I shunned because of price, Mine has a 33mm red dot Prism, what is the Buurris's? What model Browning 725, Trap/Skeet/Sporting

GB.....................................DLS

 

Burris is small, height 15mm and width 23mm, but quality is great. It adjusts brightness automatically. Even at sunny day you can see red dot clearly. Ability to adjust POI is the best I have seen (only EOTech has better) - this is a main point I picked burris (tried different brands - from cheap to more expensive). I tried on 725 Trap, but Red Dot was too far from the eye. Burris has SpeedBead Mounts for semi-autos and pumps (between receiver and stock) - this should be pretty good setup.

 

dimak: That is the reason I picked the CP70301, largest prism, I do wish it had the circle reticule, the one I sold to Fred Wenig had the circle, any target in circle was smoke. Fred really liked the set up I had, and he had to have it.

Risim: That is nice shooting, keep it up.

GB...............................DLS