STATE DELEGATES

Should the states keep financing the delegates? They do not represent the shooters of their respective states, the ATA says they work for them. What are your thoughts on this issue? Roger C.

 

As a past state delegate, I don't recall getting financing. Who's getting it?

Ed Yanchok

 

My question has nothing to do with "getting financing", but is to the "why" .....

WHY SHOULD State Associations be involved in "electing ATA delegates", that are said to serve ONLY the "ATA" ..... NOT the State Association OR the Shooters that elect them ????????

 

ED,
You never received compensation for expenses when traveling for ATA business? You must be the only one in that situation. Did you represent the shooters of your state or the ATA? The ATA has stated that the delegates work for them not the shooters that elect them. Is that true, or were they lying? Roger C.

 

In PA they only receive compensation to attend the Eastern Zone and Grand, as those are required to attend. I always assumed, as Ed posted earlier, it was never a "paid" job in any State.

 

I always saw it as covering accrued expenses, I.E. Gas, Hotel etc., and not being paid. Obviously you see it differently.

And Ed, I'll never forget getting my first 27 yard Pin from you at Bucks County! And what most fail to realize is there's so much more to the Job than the BOD meeting! Sadly only you and Brad know just how much work it involves, and never asking for anything in return!!

 

Are they compensated or are their expenses being reimbursed? Big difference and the two shouldn't be interchanged.

 

I received 150. per year to go the Grand each year to distribute 150. checks to each of our state champs that participated in the c of c event while there. I got a parking spot while at the grand and when attending our zone shoot. I never thought that I worked for the ATA but rather represented the State of NJ trapshooters the best that I could at those functions as well as all state functions. I can tell you that, during my tenure, all of the eastern zone delegates also represented their own state. Usually, after discussing matters, our zone would vote as a block at the ATA annual meeting.
Ed Yanchok

 

Ed,
How long ago were you the Delegate of your state. The ATA made the statement that the delegates worked for the ATA not their respective states. were you also reimbursed by your state for any expenses? Roger C.

 

As I recall it was prior to 2007 from about 1990. You would have to check some of the old average books to verify the dates. I was there when the vote was made to move to Sparta.

 

I was also a state delegate,and never received anything,as far as compensation.

 

Ed Yanchok: You had 150 checks to distribute to Cof C Champions, or you Recvd $150.00 to pass out your states Checks to C of C state champions which makes sense to me.

GB..............................DLS

 

To clarify. Checks were for $150.oo each. One for me and one for each our state champions, to pay their entry in the Champion of Champions event at the Grand.
Ed Yanchok

 

Let's clear things up.

State and Provincial Delegates (ATA Board of Directors) are not reimbursed by the ATA for their expenses, nor do they receive funds from that national governing body. The serve the ATA without financial compensation*. *Note: Delegate members of the Central Handicap Committee are reimbursed for travel expenses.

I've known several Delegates over the years and to the best of my knowledge, for their service, upon their check-in at the ATA Office at the Grand American, they received their packet of paperwork and were also entitled to a Delegate hat and shirt. I recall that at one time the ATA provided a leather satchel with the ATA logo for their paperwork. Parking spaces were also mapped out for each Delegate. A Delegate locker-room was provided in close proximity to the meeting location. When the Grand American moved to Sparta, the Delegate's locker-room included a couple of computer stations.

For all these benefits Delegates performed many services within their States and Provinces to include: Classifying and Handicapping duties; serving on rules committee; conducting shoot-offs; assisting in trophy determination; and helping fellow shooters with questions and needs. Delegates were also scheduled to referee shoot-offs during the Grand American. On occasion, Delegates are required to certify trap installations at gun clubs to insure the machine throws targets to conform with ATA rules. Each Fall Delegates are sent a sizable package with the year-end averages of the shooters they represent. After a lengthy review they assist in the determination of their State or Provincial teams.
They are not reimbursed by the ATA or State/Provincial Association for their time, gas mileage or any other expenses in the performance of their duties, and every one of them accepted this personal responsibility when elected.

As Mr. Yanchok noted, some State & Provincial Associations issue a certain financial assistance to their Delegates to help with their expenses when they attend the Grand American and represent their State/Province at the annual Director's meeting. There is no standard amount.

Mr. Yanchok said his New Jersey State Trapshooting Association paid him $150 and that they also gave $150 to each State Singles Champion (Women, Veteran, Junior, etc.) who was willing travel to the Grand to represent the State in the Champion of Champions event. These stipends can and do change for State/Provincial Associations.

State & Provincial Associations make the determination whether or not to provide an amount of financial support for their Delegate and to their State Champions (or runner-up in the absence of the Champ) who participate in the Champion of Champions event at the GAH. There is no standard for this financial support by Association. Some do it and I suspect some do not. Some only offer aid to the Delegate.

Hope this helps others know the facts, and as always, please feel free to correct me. Policies may have changed over the past few years of my inactivity.

HB

 

HB,
I knew they were not paid by the ATA. Why did the EC state that the BOD does not work for the state that elected them? The X delegate told us at the meeting when he resigned that he would explain how it was his job to inform the incoming delegate how the system worked. The new delegates job was to inform the shooters what the EC expected of them He was not to represent what the shooters wanted. My state give the champion of each catagory $200.00 to shoot in the C of C event. Roger C.

 

Roger,

I can't speak to what one Delegate told the new Delegate "how the system worked." All new Delegates should be familiar with both the ATA rules as well as the By-Laws before deciding to run for the office.

I don't recall ever hearing of a case where the Executive Committee pressured a Delegate how he/she should vote. There may be some, but I'm not aware of any. Perhaps Mr. Yanchok will tell us if he ever experienced pressure by the ATA E.C. Or perhaps other Delegates who read this forum will comment.

Most ATA members believe they elect their State/Provincial Delegates to represent their State or Province and they do. However, as members of the ATA Board of Directors, Delegates also represent the governing body (ATA) and are bound by duties outlined in the By-Laws. Delegates serve for the good of both State/Provincial Associations and their shooters and the ATA.

State and Provincial Associations are affiliates of the ATA and as such, agreed the authority of the governing body (ATA) supersedes their own. Usually the ATA allows State/Provincial Associations to govern themselves, but there have been occasions when the ATA has ruled against a State or Province and demanded compliance.

There have been some Executive Committees who wisely decided to poll the ATA membership on certain issues and this goes all the way back to when the Interstate Association was the controlling organization before the ATA. But, they were never bound by the opinion of the membership. The Relocation Survey sure proves this point.

Here's an example of some excerpts from a 1913 article:

Victory For Trap Shooters
THE INTERSTATE ASSOCIATION INVITES SPORTSMEN TO EXPRESS OPINIONS
Suggested Changes in Shooting Distance, Loads and Distance of Targets, Discussed By and Through “Sporting Life” to Be Determined By Vote of All Shooters of the Country.​

Through Secretary E. Reed Shaner, the Interstate Association has invited all trap shooters to express their opinion of certain contemplated changes in the present trap shooting system, moves which were first brought to the attention of the shooters by "Sporting Life" and since freely discussed in its columns by the trap shooters. By its move the Interstate Association has very wisely given the shooters of the country, the men who support the sport and make it the great recreation that it is, the opportunity of deciding themselves just what they want in the line of new regulations. For years the Interstate Association has been seeking the means whereby it could take the shooters into its confidence, find out what they really wanted, and legislate accordingly.

1—Are you in favor of changing the standard distance for target shooting from 16 to 18 yards?

2—Are you in favor of restricting loads for target shooting to three drams bulk, or the equivalent in dense powder, and one and one-eighth ounces of shot?

3—Are you in favor of making the regulation distance for throwing targets not less than 55 yards nor more than 65 yards?

4—Are you an favor of letting conditions remain as they are?

SPORTING LIFE, November 1, 1913, page 19-20 ​

And in 1975 the ATA asked shooter opinions on the new method of shooting "Doubles" they proposed. I think this will interest most readers, especially doubles shooters:

​

Delegates do a lot more that most shooters are aware of. I listed some of their tasks above. Another example is the monthly "Around The ATA" in Trap & Field magazine. All the information reported by the Delegates is not at their fingertips. They must devote time and energy to obtain the information and formulate it into an interesting report. Yes, a good Delegate is involved and you'll see them in action many times during your State Championships and other shoots.

The financial support given to Delegates is miniscule, but I'm pretty sure they appreciate this monetary gesture from their State or Province. So, I'm in favor of them receiving this aid.

I just wish Delegates provided better oversight of the Association and especially the Executive Committees.

If you believe your Delegate is doing a good job . . . . thank him or her for their service.

HB

 

There is ALWAYS A LOT of confusion about "who is", "what is", and "how is" .....

This is from the "CONSTITUTION OF THE INDIANA TRAPSHOOTER'S ASSOCIATION, INC"

"ARTICLE III MEMBERSHIP"

"Section 1. Regularly organized Gun Clubs of the State of Indiana shall be eligible for voting membership in the association. All Indiana resident members of the Amateur Trapshooting Association of America, shall be non-voting members of the association."

As a disclosure, so anyone like "Bat" doesn't see this as a "Google search", I have been a "Indiana resident" since 1975 .....

https://indianatrap.com/

Should the cyber-readers always be told ...... "go vote if you don't like what is going on" ?????????????????

 

Do the delegates realistically have the authority to provide effective oversight of the Association and the Executive Committee?

 

Garry,
Time has proven that a majority of the delegates do not have the know how or the balls to correct the mistakes that the EC has made. They either think they may get in line for the EC. Or do not have the intelligence to be on the BOD of any Corp. The members have lost all control over the operations of the ATA. That is why very few now trust the EC. It is also a factor in the falling ranks of the membership. There are no checks and balances in this organization. It is run like a dictatorship. The select few feel that they are the smartest people in the room, and will not take any advise from the membership. This is a proven fact. This attitude really picked up speed in the mid 1990's. and has gotten worse as time went on. They will not enforce the rules as written in their rule book. They let clubs violate any rule that they think will let their shooters break more targets. They let EC members violate the laws pertaining to the 501-C charter, they wrongly will not publish the line item restitution given to EC members. It is impossible to receive a readable financial statement from them. Yet they want the members that support them to just follow along like lemmings, and for the most part many do just that.
They think having $17,000,000.00 +, in assets is success, We as members did not sign up to accumulate a large bank account. We only want a member orientated organization, that is run as a well oiled shooting venue that is the same for all members regardless of where they are located. Rigidly enforced rules that are the same anywhere registered target are thrown. I do not think that is to much to ask for, do you?
Also , policing them selves as to not endanger the 501-C corp. status. Roger C.

 

How many States pay there ATA Delegates $2000 to attend the Grand.

 

I don't believe that any states pay their delegates 2000.oo to attend the grand. Where did that number come from?
Ed Yanchok

 

None that I know of. Arizona gives the delegate expense money but it is not $2000.00 that I know of. Roger C.

 

The new delegate is a much better man than the old one was. The old one was an A$$ licker. That is a quote from an EX President. Our new delegate is an honest man, if all delegates were like him we would not be in the mess we are now in. Roger C.