The annual meeting should be called SECRET

You will see there will be no roll call votes. No accountability. Or do you think there is a delegate that is honest enough to have roll call votes?

 

It will be interesting to see how many Delegates stand up, and ASK questions on issues that are brought forward.

Oh, I forgot what I was told in another thread.

The Delegates work FOR the ATA organization, NOT the State shooters they represent.

So I guess they HAVE TO go along with the EC, no questions asked ?

 

On a recent thread with a Delegate's name it, I posted a long passage from the 2006 Annual Meeting which from the start made it very clear that there was little support on the EC for my motion. And I prevailed anyway. Any Delegate can get a good idea passed if he or she does nothing more than work hard at it.

N1H1

 

Congratulations on your lifetime of accomplishments doing just that. I remember one...….
"instrumental in getting the 3-hole target rule rescinded". ..MN HOF Induction

And of course your vote on Sparta. Which lifetime accomplishment are you most proud of?

 

Man, your collective heads will all really explode once you realize that all the actual controversial stuff is debated at the private zone meetings which have zero accountability and reporting beyond those who were in the room. The actual BoD meeting is just a dog and pony show going through the motions of what is already mostly decided.

 

Please provide me minutes or a vote count of one zone meeting. Just one.

I’ve been to these meetings and have never seen minutes taken. In fact, we really don’t vote on anything (other than the zone VP), just discuss how we *might* vote in various issues.

 

John Wick, it is true that ideas are debated at the Zone meetings at the Grand. Delegates are exposed to the range of positions on an issue and can get a feel for support of lack thereof of a particular plan.

I always write that ATA changes comes from a majority vote at a properly called meeting of the BOD. That means the Annual Meeting of the Delegates. Nothing brought up at the Zone meetings has force until voted on by the entire body.

An idea may get no support whatever in the Zone meeting yet the Delegate is perfectly able to bring it up at the Annual Meeting and see if he is able, in his talk, to get done what he or she is aiming for. It's rare, but three of us went into the 2008 Annual meeting with virtually no hope of changing the target year back to 01 Sept to 31 August and got it done anyway.

Ohio was one of the states who most wanted it. You are welcome.

N1H1

 

Every zone has a secretary. Every secretary takes minutes at the meeting. After the meeting, the attending Vice-President takes the results to the EC which then can then make an agenda which will bring up for discussion and possible vote any plan which seems to have substantial support. As can any Delegate, of course. Or, in fact, any idea at all, whether it came up at any zone meeting or not.

N1H1

 

"Please provide me minutes or a vote count of one zone meeting. Just one." "JohnWick"

"Every zone has a secretary. Every secretary takes minutes at the meeting." ol'N1H1"

STOP with BULLSHIT lip-service ..... and provide what was ask for , with a "please" attached, Good ol'N1H1 .....

FWIW ..... your, ol'N1H1's, constant BULLSHIT with NOTHING provided to support it, makes your posts USELESS .....

 

Been to a lot of them, have you, U1? I attended about 25. Our secretary took minutes and our agenda (modeled on the ATA's), as with most corporations, required approval of the minutes of the previous meeting.

I think you might want to spend more time with your anger-management group. Raving that Delaware-chartered corporations do not take and approve minutes at their required annual meetings shows you to be a fool.

N1H1

 

Post some of what you "say" happens ...... Or, STOP with your constant opinionated BULLSHIT ..... It is that simple .....

 

"John Wick" is, as is so common here, not an ATA shooter using his own name. I suppose he could be an innocent phantom created to make it look like there is more interest here that there really is, or he may just be someone who posts under a "real looking" name to mask the fact that he is hiding under camouflage and so will never be found out as he types whatever occurs to him, true or not.

Readers here should understand that I make no effort to hide who I am, while "John Wick" and "User 1" depend on anonymity to cloak who they really are. Those readers should ask themselves "Why won't these guys stand behind what they say with their real names.? Neil Winston gets his name posted in thread names, after all, and does not raise hell when his name comes up.

Who are you, "John Wick?" Who are you, "User 1?"

N1H1

 

Would you like me to post some of the times you "raise hell" about this ??????

Now post something useful, like you were ask with a "please" to do ...... Or, just make yourself look more the "fool" with the deflection ......

 

While I have not been to other Zone meetings, I have been to my own Zone meetings in the past, even acting as secretary at one due to the absence of our elected secretary. It is my belief that N1H1 is correct that all Zones have a secretary and minutes are taken. They are disseminated to all Zone Delegates but I don't know that they are ever made public for shooters within the Zone to read. I would suspect that minutes would be provided to anyone on request but I don't know that for certain.

Polls and decisions within each Zone, by Zone Delegates, are forwarded to the ATA involving upcoming discussions and voting.

HB

 

Hey Neil, are we going to shoot today???

 

If it ever stops raining...

N1H1

 

It would be helpful if the the current process for requesting changes, was documented in detail in the ATA rule book and on the ATA website?

 

Weather man is wrong, AGAIN.

11:18 and still raining.

Looks like an all dayer!

 

I'll help you Garry. Go to the annual membership meeting at your State Shoot. If you have an idea, bring it up, speak in favor of it, and see if there really is any support for it at all. If it wins by a substantial majority, make a second motion that the Delegate be directed to bring it up at the BOD Annual Meeting at the Grand at Sparta.

Testing the waters at your state will give you a good feel for the general popularity of your idea among other shooters. If no one likes it, try a different idea you like next year.

I have many times taken a local hot topic to the floor at the Grand and though it has sometimes taken years, I often get results eventually. But sometimes not. It took nine years to got two failures-to-fire approved. It solved the dilemma for a shooter who has experienced a single failure to fire: 'Is it the shell or the gun?' If it happens on the next shot it is likely the gun and the shooter can withdraw and fix it, finishing on the makeup trap, thus saving a potentially winning score.

N1H1

 

This is good advice and you will be afforded the opportunity to hear the pros and cons from those with experience. Often times we hear comments and opinion we hadn't thought of.

 

One should not have to use the current undocumented process just to get the current change process added to the rule book and posted on the ATA website. This type of bureaucracy is not helping.

Just like one should not have to use the current undocumented process to let management know that the Failure to Fire rule found on the Lastest News page on the ATA website does not agree with the Failure to Fire rule in the Rule Book.

 

Neil, I love ya but please, not again with the FTF. Please.
You may love it and be real proud of it. But, its a bs rule that makes trapshooting weaker. It has hurt the integrity of the sport.
Course, that is just my opinion.

 

Jake, people who don't like the present FTF rule and can offer a better idea are encouraged to go to their annual state membership meeting and present their solution. If there seems to be support, then letter to all the Delegates (not an email. for heaven's sake!) would be the next (virtually required) step - it's what I did over and over again. Who knows, maybe someone will solve the problem, which would be just fine with me.

N1H1

 

Family Guy tried that. President Miller kinda told him the delegate does not have to discuss anything in public.

 

Hey N1H1....You need to tell that BS to the dumb crowd. From you.
The By-laws are clear and simple..... A BOD member is charged with promoting the best interests of the Corporation as he or she sees them...... All the rest of that is talk, talk, talk and, to my mind, a waste of time.

Now tell us how proud you were representing the corporation when you took the sport out of trapshooting.

 

Maybe so. But that didn't prevent FG from using the floor, I hope. In situations like that, just keep talking until someone is simply forced to say something in rebuttal and then deal in turn with his or her arguments.

That's how Frank P. and I and one other who's name I can't recall got the target year changed back to what the Ohio shooters wanted, against 40:10 odds (at the start of) the 2008 Annual Meeting. If FG just sat down, he doesn't know how the game is effectively played or didn't have a plan prepared to deal with he met. Attend a few annual membership meetings; see how things work, and go back with a prepared offense that will not be dissuaded by someone just refusing to talk. If you are talking, you can argue your point; if he isn''t, he can't, and if you can't beat that you are not much of a rabble-rouser.

N1H1

 

Do we need more BS statements from N1H1?
The position of Delegate is an ATA position, not a state position. He or she works for the ATA corporation, not the state corporation.....N1H1
Miller and N1H1 must agree but N1H1 must not have remembered these statements.

 

And the big statement by N1H1. What if a sense of morals creates a problem choosing between the state and ATA? Answer..... If he or she finds the two in conflict, I guess resignation is a recourse....N1H1

 

Clearly, FG, you are just a lightweight in a heavyweights' league.

Don't blame the guy who beat you; it reflects badly on you, not him.

Here's the deal, Family Guy: Over 25 years as an ATA officer of one sort or another I got dozens of things done, plenty more I had to leave undone. You are zero for one. That perfectly defines a lightweight in this league which is tougher than most imagine.

Often it requires no more than good ideas and limitless determination in the face of opposition than finally gives up because its determination was not, as it turned out, not limitless. Try it, sometime. here is an annual membership meeting next year; get to work now.

N1H1

 

The annual Membership meeting serves another purpose: It is a sounding board to find out if there are many who agree oryou are alone in your thinking? Yes. Americantrapshooter.com paints a particular picture of the thinking of Ohio shooters but when I was there for the 2008 State Shoot, I didn't meet any who expressed the views common on this website; all they wanted was the target year changed back and I got it done for them.

Maybe if you mixed more; maybe do a vendor spot with you and the name of this website on a banner and a few contributors here willing to talk to ATA shooting members you would...well, I don't know what would happen. All I know is that when Ohio shooters had an opportunity to talk with me face to face, they were articulate, concerned, and reasonable.

N1H1

 

Actually, I pray I am nothing like you. And I am sure my close friends are not like your close friends.

My number1 sport is not trapshooting. Those that love that sport, fight to keep it challenging. You have found a way to destroy this sport. Congrats on that lifetime achievement.

 

Didn't some posts get deleted here? Not mine.

Not important. Just an example of how to deal with opposition which quails behind silence. Steamroller 'em!

Neil

 

This group that helped start this site decided it would have very little to do with vendors. It is more about promoting all shooting, exposing narcissistic asses like yourself, and corruption within the sport.

This place is now number one. Thanks for dropping by.

 

No posts have been removed....but it must irk you that old posts of yours have been documented. Saying one thing one day and taking the opposite position on another.

You did not answer the question asked....

Now tell us how proud you were representing the corporation when you took the sport out of trapshooting.

 

An apology, FG, I thought you had deleted your posts which I was responding to. I'm just ignoring you and so didn't see them. I regret my error.

N1H1

 

N1H1.....are you representing the corporation today? Are you representing the State Association (you say implied you did not listen to) that gave you a lifetime achievement award for being instrumental in removing the sport from trapshooting? "Rescinding the 3 hole setting."

 

More BS huh?
You have answered all my posts? Cant help it? Narcissistic?

 

In what may be the greatest act of narcissism in the sport, you made trapshooting about you. You drop by to gloat. To remember the time as you say in your "heavyweights league." The time you made trapshooting forever about you. This site is the place that documented that heavyweight league you loved.

Now tell us how you feel about that lifetime achievement award. Congrats, you earned it.

 

"This group that helped start this site decided it would have very little to do with" anything but sitting on their dead asses pissing and moaning and insulting people and never, ever, lifting a finger to do anything about what seems to bug them so much except typing anonymously because they do not even have the guts to admit who they are, which is to say, they don't have any guts at all.

N1H1

 

Gee....now you hurt everyone's feelings. You are one of several thousand that visited this site today. I am sure the techies and founders appreciate all 420 posts you made on the username N1H1.

Who would have thought quoting your BS misstatements would have angered you so?

I will be at the Cardinal Center in a few days promoting trapshooting, taking thousands of pictures. Guessing you will be sitting on your ass still steamed we found those quotes. It must suck to be narcissistic and no longer have your "heavyweight league."
----------

Still waiting to hear how you feel about that achievement award.

 

OK, Family Guy, you know who I am and that I would use my real name if permitted to. Who are you?

N1H1

 

Ooops N1H1....I forgot to thank you for earning the award here ……"mega poster" another lifetime achievement

 

Ah yes....I remember when you threatened to sue I think if your name appeared here. Or was that someone else? Bad memory sometimes.

 

Good thing they have rules here to keep names off the forum. Darn narcissists and their lawyers.

 

So tell me more about ignoring posts.

 

No, I threatened to sue if patently libelous postings continues to appear here. It appears to have worked.

What is your name, Family Guy? There seems to be no rule against my name appearing in thread titles,

I'll bet you could get away with a thread titles "Family Guy's name is ---" if you just had the guts not to snipe from anonymity.

Neil
____

You say "patently libelous postings continues to appear here." Where and when? What content? Be real clear. Respond quickly! joe

 

"So tell me more about ignoring posts"

I'm so accoustomed to ignoring what you write that when I am given the opportunity to read some by a tine "click me" invitation , I just skim over it even though it might, possibly, have turned out to have interested me. You can't possibly think I would voluntarily read all of it, do you?

N1H1

 

Narcissism isn't something you can control. Nope....you have to check.

Now, as to my name being put out on a public forum.....only a true narcissist would want to do that.

 

N1H1....since you have tried to deflect the thread I put together the best of your contradictory BS statements for review.

make a second motion that the Delegate be directed to bring it up at the BOD Annual Meeting at the Grand at Sparta.

'offer a better idea are encouraged to go to their annual state membership meeting and present their solution.

If there seems to be support, then letter to all the Delegates

Your worst assertion is that that state delegate is held to the state association's view of where his or her loyalties must lie....N1H1

The position of Delegate is an ATA position, not a state position. He or she works for the ATA corporation, not the state corporation.....N1H1

"He must carry out the directives of the ATA , if he has a conflict between their wishes and the state members, he should resign, so someone else can do the bidding of the ATA....N1H1

The By-laws are clear and simple..... A BOD member is charged with promoting the best interests of the Corporation as he or she sees them...... All the rest of that is talk, talk, talk and, to my mind, a waste of time...N1H1

These are your quotes N1H1. Your demand that I put my name on the forum appears to be some kind of veiled threat. If you think there is anything I have said to you here that I would not say in person you are wrong. Again, I will be at the CC this week, in public, taking pictures.

 

Minutes of meetings are all well and good IF ALL the information is in them.

Some meetings have pertinent parts of information (IE: complete names of corporations) mysteriously left out either by accident, Typographical errors, or Lord knows why.

When asked that the minutes be corrected, the suggestion goes unanswered.

So be it for minutes, they are just reading material in some cases.

Think this is STILL a thorn in my side ?

YOU BET IT IS !!!

 

The Delegate gets elected by the State to represent the Shooters of that state and not be an ATA suck up, which is what they end up being ... The ATA EC tells the Delegates how to and what to vote for because there are not enough Delegates to make a stand against the EC, beside lacking the balls to do so ... This is by design so the EC can do as they please, when they please and there is nothing the membership can do about it ... There are not enough members willing to start a class action legal lawsuit to stop the EC and those on the BOD who are the EC's suck ups ... N1H1, is the"A" Typical suck up to and for the ATA, he defends any and every action they want pushed through ... The Delegates Voting should be made public (by name ) so the members can see who is on the side of the members and not being dictated to by the EC ... I would be more than willing to donate to any actions against the ATA's EC and Bod who do not represent the membership as opposed to their own agenda ... Legal action is the only way to curtail the nonsense they get away with ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I hate to keep saying it, but, starting something new, or talking the State Organizations into parting ways with the ATA, would be a better way to spend any money .....

Most ..... if not all ..... of the current ATA membership would never live long enough to see the result, if any, of any type of legal battle .....

Give everyone in line their free shotgun, turn out the lights, lock the doors and call it The End of an ERROR ......

 

A most interesting comment.

I've wondered just where the below report came from.

​

It would be easy for me to assume that ATA Controller Michael R. Howell reported his findings to the Executive Committee at their December 14, 2015 meeting.

However, I must be incorrect because the official minutes does not contain any mention of the purchase of the Sparta office, 2012 Pull LLC, or Past President Rob M. Taylor's involvement. I'm sure if it was discussed at the E. C. meeting it would have been handled like other discussions that the membership was not permitted to read, noting that the E. C. held an "Executive Session" and the subject would be identified in general terms.

I suspect the Board of Directors was not apprised of this possible "conflict of interest" since many didn't believe the earlier reports. How does any Board of Directors provide proper oversight duties when they are not informed of the issues and I doubt if any Delegate asked about it when the story broke. Everyone buried their heads in the sand. See No Evil.

The E. C. and B. O. D. cannot pick and choose what rules they wish to follow. They must follow all rules and policies just like every other ATA member. I guess I expect too much of our leadership. Integrity is something not everyone embraces I guess.

So, a question to our ATA Board of Directors . . . . . why was the Illinois Attorney General's office entitled to see documents relating to 2012 Pull LLC but you were not? Doesn't that upset at least one of you?

​

HB

 

You have to laugh every time you read ..... "He stated he did not, but that he did not gain economically in the transaction" ..... and the best ..... "Since the real estate was purchased by the ATA at less than appraised value, no harm resulted to the ATA" .....

With the "no harm resulted to the ATA" attitude, and the Illinois AG's lack of interest ..... it is equal to playing poker where their "show cards" beat your best possibility ...... time to throw in the losing hand and move on to a better game .....

 

It looks like Mr. Taylor truly believes that all trap shooters are dumb, stupid, or ignorant. That statement, I did not profit from the transaction, proves that the EC and BOD certainly are. Man enters this world with only a bare ass and a good name, his most serious endeavor should be to keep them both from harm so he can exit the same way. Roger C.

 

NOT when you are an entitled group !

 

HB, I filed this very same complaint with the Illinois Attorney General's office, and listed Robert Taylor's name as the Incorporator of 2012PULL llc. The only letter I got was confirmation of recieving my complaint.

GB.................................DLS

 

The Problem is we the members cannot gather enough people to make a stand and force the issues to come to a stop … The EC, ED, and many on the BOD do not care what the members say because nothing is ever done to curtail their activities … The Organization is at the point where the only thing that is going to get any one on the EC, ED and or BOD attention is a legal action to cease with operations as it has been over the past 15/20 years and get the thing running as it should be, eliminate the Cash Cow and watch how fast they cut and run … I doubt they are aware or care how little respect people have for them based on their actions … WPT … (YAC) …

 

WPT I think it's to late to save the ATA. It needs to die the death the EC's started. It was a good run but there are very few on here that ever shot a Phoenix Chain shoot, a Reno Golden West Grand, a Mexico Mo Graffs shoot or a grand at Vandalia. Today's ATA shooter doesn't know what they missed.

If we could have stopped the Taylor's and Bradford's of the ATA in the first 3 or 4 years of the Sparta experience there would have still been shooters who cared, but sadly a bunch of them have died and not been replaced. Trap shooting has become skeet shooting and is headed for that grave yard. All you need to do is compare any state shoot's attendance in 2005 with their attendance in 2018. I'd really like to see a Graph on that one.


I also don't think the Martin's (no matter how well intention-ed they were) did trap shooting any favors by propping up the EC and Sparta with all their money. A subsidized anything, economy, child, or organization, is doomed to fail if it can't stand on its own, and obviously the Sparta Grand Can't. Too Bad but such is life. You and I should just be glad we saw the good days when we were young and full of vinegar.

I didn't go down to the Cardinal Classic this year, I stayed home, played with the grand kids and brushed up my duck blind

Brad