All orange targets

Heard a person @ my local club say--the ATA is going to mandate all orange targets

Just shot all orange Euro targets--their color really pops-when compared to White Flyer orange dome

 

The ATA does NOT mandate any target color. Color is dependent on clubs choice predicated on the back ground at the particular club, which makes sense.
Ed Yanchok

 

Our Clubs shoot GREEN Targets, around here.


GB...................................DLS

 

Never saw the green targets. How do the shooters like them ?

 

I absolutely hate, despise, and detest the black-rimmed target. I hate being given half a target to track. For daylight targets, all orange, all pink, or all lime. When I stop by a range, I'll casually watch what they're throwing. If they're throwing all orange, I'll get out my gun. If I see them throwing black-rimmed targets, I'll leave the gun in the car and say I'm just checking out the place.

 

Shot green targets @ Redlands and @ Mud Run when Dennis DeVault was fitting guns for me

If you are @ club that throws green targets --make sure to have blue or brown lenses

 

I have probably shot any and every color target available over the years ... I was a Decot Dealer at one time so I have an assortment of lenses for any and all circumstances / applications (12 pair + 1) , even got a pair of Hi definition lenses (Hy Def Specs) that turned out to be great for diving or flying but sucked for shooting, and 3 pairs of the International Frames with the adjustable nose piece ... Black rims or no rims, have shot them all and never gave it much thought ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I like them. I can't get anyone to throw them against a green background. Folks seem to think they're only for the desert. I've put one against a green background, and it really pops.

 

Solid color targets are no good at all if they get up in the clear blue sky.

 

Terry is so right, very few shooters get to shoot @ a sky background--its got to be worth 3 pts on your avg

 

New York ATA throws black rim targets and I love them. Makes it easier to focus on the rim of the target which is my preference. I have no problem seeing the black rim.

 

I have some of my best scores shooting all orange. Don't get to shoot sky back ground often.

 

Tucson went to the New York target back some time. Good compromise between all orange and orange dome.

Ever shoot solid black against the sky TJ? Lots of definition to the outside edge and dome edges for many.

All: I have yet to see a background where solid orange looks better to me than an orange dome. I am sure there are some background where they may be best. I know many others who prefer the black rim/edge as well. I get more feedback about the edge and the center. Solid orange looks like a flying orange cotton ball to me: especially solid orange bios.

People perceive colors differently. Some have deficiencies with some colors on some backgrounds. If you have ever taken a test for color blindness and/or deficiency; you know what I mean. I think this accounts for folks having individual and collective preferences at some clubs.

 

I shot black targets against a blue sky, for some reason they looked smaller to me which I know was only my vision playing tricks on me ... I would like to try them again since I had cataract surgery and can see again ... I actually did reasonably well with them ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Read somewhere, I think the other site, a member said that the paint they use now is not the same as years ago.
According to him it was Fluroescent paint which gave targets that blazing look as they came out.
Evidently that paint was not eco-friendly so it was changed???

Regards....Gerald

 

QUOTE !
All: I have yet to see a background where solid orange looks better to me than an orange dome. I am sure there are some background where they may be best. I know many others who prefer the black rim/edge as well. I get more feedback about the edge and the center. Solid orange looks like a flying orange cotton ball to me: especially solid orange bios.

People perceive colors differently. Some have deficiencies with some colors on some backgrounds. If you have ever taken a test for color blindness and/or deficiency; you know what I mean. I think this accounts for folks having individual and collective preferences at some clubs.

Years ago Ted McHugh sat and told us in NY that a study to help Color Blind people was done by him and others and the NEW YORK style, with ONLY the rim being BLACK, was the best for those people to pick out a good definition from one color to the other. Thus the NY style was born.

That was according to Ted, telling a group of us who asked.....

 

Interesting! Thank you. I am color blind so many that's why I like those targets much. The thin black rim also helps those who only look at the rim.

 

Probably from me. The early Remington targets actually glowed in the dark. White Flyers were painted barn orange at the time.

 

When Tucson still threw all orange; I never could not find an adjustment for me to employ. The all orange was just over-powering in good sunlight. That was my perception of them anyway.

I think it is related to the orange target clutter on what would otherwise be clean ground. The NY rim seems to give the edge back instead of seeing flying orange over orange ground.

wpt: I have seen black look smaller some days and oversized on others at the same location. Not sure of the reason for the difference.

 

Remember, if you shoot against a tree-dominated background, the second most dominant color of the background is black. A black-rimmed target against a largely black background gives you only a small orange target to see.

I've never liked the black-rimmed target. I once thought they were introduced to make shooting more difficult.

I really like the magenta/pink target. That thing pops the most of all targets.

 

Does anyone miss the Remington Blue Rock Yellow dome targets.We shot them for years,It solved the old addage of 7 1/2 or 8s. Always shot 7 1/2 ounce and one eight for Blue Rock targets.

 

Ya mean like this one-no.

 

My club uses orange targets but mixes a couple green ones in on the weekends. If you get a green bird and bust it, it's a free round. I like them. They pop out pretty good. Maybe because our eyes are so use to seeing orange, but who knows

 

I've shot almost exclusively all orange for years. Except at Redlands (Green) and the Dollar (orange dome). I don't care for the orange dome Looks like I'm shooting 1/2 target. Vermillion lenses and Orange targets are an outstanding combination. However, I was raised on all black targets, so, really, anything other than all black is good.

 

No one color is best for all locations. The different lighting and back ground dictates what color targets should be shot. at that location. I have shot all collars and the new orange paint on the black rimed target seems to be the best in most locations.
Roger C.

 

The only black trees I've ever seen were the result of a fire. Shadows aren't black, either, they are reduced light.
I like all target colors, even all-black.

 

The all black are used in some of the clubs in New Mexico. They throw them up into a clear blue sky. Love them. Roger C.
They also threw them at the old Vegas club. They had a shinny black paint on them. Roger C.

 

Really?

 

Exactly. It looks like 1/2 a target.

 

The $ throws NY style targets --great if the sun is overhead--early squads are shooting the equivalent of all orange targets

 

Those trees aren't black, they're green. Leaves in shade are just darker green.
That picture's view is facing south, into the sun, so you see the shadow sides of the trees...dark green.
No trap club sets up its facilities so that the shooters are facing the sun when they shoot.
You'll only see the sunlit sides (south sides) of the trees in the background at your trap range.
So this picture is moot.

 

Whatever you want, buddy. Take an art class. Learn what colors you'd need to use to paint a forest scene.

 

Well, you never shot at the old Phoenix Trap Club. It faced directly west. No one would shoot before 10am, because you couldn't see anything but the sun.

 

I like the NY Style targets. They give that bright orange fuzz contrast, in all conditions for me. That extra orange added to that outside rim top adds an extra 1/4" of orange to that top face of visual reference. Those that say the target looks smaller, that only applies then when the target is actually in line with a BLACK background. Anywhere else that it is lighter than black, that rim is seen. If you can still see the orange at all times, what is the difference if it appears smaller? Isn't that just a psychological distraction like every other thing trap shooters go through.

Like mentioned above, if the bright sun is shinning on the top of the target, or slightly in front (Glare) it is a blur, and once it gets into a sky with slight haze, partly clouds, or light background they disappear. Cloudy skies are worse. Sometimes if shooting right when the target breaks into the skyline it is difficult tell if you even broke the target, or not. This is especially true with the all green targets. In winter, with solid cloudy skies when the targets fly into the tree line in and out of the skylight, that really is like a black light strobe, then it totally disappears into the skyline.

I guess all around for a universal target color configuration, for all circumstances, the NY Style would be best. I heard once from someone who asked White Flyer about target color configurations that they were going to all be NY Style eventually. Hearsay, I know, so how true that is I don't know. I do see that most ATA large shoots have black rim targets. From what I recall, back before all orange were ever available, that was the only configuration being used everywhere, no matter the color. So that in itself is saying something.

Not saying they are best for all. Just that if you have to go with the majority, I think it would lean toward black rim targets of some magnitude. I know some claim that the black rim takes away from the orange brightness, turning the target to brown. I doubt that is a majority occurrence though. Like all color in perception, everyones eyes are different. Hopefully that is why there are many different color lens choices available, and one will help to see the target. Then you only have to worry about partly cloudy skies.

 

They threw normal targets last year not the NY style, shooters I talked to think they are better than the NY. style at the $.

 

We throw all orange but most of the reg. birds thrown around here are orange dome. For my eyes i have an easier time focusing on the orange dome. I think it depends on your eyes and the background.

 

Bama, The phoenix club faced EAST, not west. The reason for that was a bunch of farmers started that club with little knowledge of shooting. It did not mater to them what direction it faced as they only shot after dark. They all worked during the day light hours. As the club expanded the cost of changing the direction would have been a financial hardship on the club finances, thus an east facing large club. Roger C.

 

FULL Dome Colors seem to be the most recommended Targets. Suited to the Background, wherever Trap is shot.

GB....................................DLS

 

The all orange target in the bright sunshine in southern Arizona, leaves a streak about 3 feet long just as it leaves the trap house. This makes it very easy to shoot in back of the target. The black rim give more definition to the eye of the shooter.This to me is a much better presentation. Roger C.

 

The sun rises in the west in Arizona?

 

Trees aren't black, regardless of how your art instructor wants you to paint them......
(Art is interpretive, not based on true colors, but on colors that look best on canvas.)

 

Knock it off. You wasting time defending a very silly position. Whether a tree background is purely black or the darkest charcoal or bistre, it's dark. Putting a black-rimmed target against a dark background makes the rim disappear, giving the shooter a smaller target. That, and a hundred other reasons are why the black-rimmed target is an awful choice.

 

The fact that a lot of peoples eyes see colors differently probably play a big part in their choice of targets color also ... My Eye Doctor gave me a chart (yes, really ) with the graduated difference in color that I see as compared to some other people ... Reading that charts shows my eyes pick up red and oranges more then greens, blacks etc ... They did this when I asked him about colors when they were doing the cataract surgery, he said seldom will you see two exactly alike ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

It's my time. I can waste it if I so choose.
Just like you can waste yours telling me how wrong I am.

 

If you are not AA 25+yards AA you might be shooting the wrong colored targets. When PA threw full black rimed targets they had more 100's in doubles than they have now. Just one short story to support not shooting all orange. Name being withheld to protect the dead. We had a very good shooter in PA that quit shooting when they changed to "all orange". His reason was "I can't see the targets anymore". He refused to believe that very few people can focus on and see a sharp clear target if they are all orange. I personally had my best ever singles average in 1977 which was the last year we shot non orange targets at the clubs I shot at in PA. This year on fewer targets I'm shooting a "AAA" singles average, but my average is not as high as it was in 1977. Before you say it, age does not matter for singles shooting, IMO.

 

The late great Frank Little always stated black rimmed targets statistically produced higher scores. Try shooting them at a club facing south with a solid tree background and even Frank was wrong. Green are better.

 

Green is an excellent target, even against a green background. It's amazing how easy it is to pick up the green target.

I haven't tried the black-rimmed target in the desert. Maybe they're great in that environment.

 

#1. Green is better. About 15 years ago Hegins got a load of green targets. Scores there were better than ever, but it was one load and done. The duffers all thought "we can't see them". Just where is this club that throws green to the south with an a solid tree background? IMO, a blacked rimed target will always produce better averages regardless of the color of the dome.

 

The first time I shot green was in Reno and I broke a 96 from the 27. Had 98 in the championship that year. I only remember green for one year at the "Golden West".

 

Lappawinzo threw 'em for a few years and the local league produced twice as many straights on green than orange under identical conditions while shooting South. They do suck in sky or over snow. Other local clubs throw a green bird for something free and everyone marvels at how bright green is over orange. I'm sure Butch you should remember the controversy clubs had when switching over from black and whites to all orange. You should also remember how bright the original orange targets from Remington over the barn orange White Flyers. Green is most visible on solid tree backgrounds without sky. I'd love to try a green domed target where available.

 

My favorite orange targets were the Great Eastern black rims.

 

I faced east into the sun, the sun faced west into my face....Clear?

 

It all depends if your shooting 7 1/2's or 8's.

 

Great Eastern targets went to the grave with Woody.

 

I have 20/10-20/10 vision in both eyes and I have NEVER SEEN A STREAK from any target in my life, even a Lightning Strike 12 feet in front of me left a STREAK.

You guys must have a Vision Accuity Problem.

The Orange Target w/a black rim targets appear smaller, than a full Orange/Green/Black/White Targets to ME. I have shot them all, I even shot Targets Half across the top, White/Black, even shot some rare BLUE Targets.

I have never even seen a Bluuuuurrrr target.


GB...........................DLS

 

I have taken a target put it upside down, filled it with Talcum Powder, and Glued a piece of paper to the rim, When glue dried I used a Single Edge Blade and trimmed the paper, You should see them Smoke/ and Chalk Line Powder (BLUE ).

GB...............................DLS

 

I take those magic pills you told us about DLS, not sure about my vision but I don't get gas as bad any more ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I thought those "blue pills" you guys take make your vision worse.

 

If green targets are easier to see, isn't that a reason not to use them? And if they were used at sparta would they be seen?

 

Not now.....

 

Shot some of my best scores with all orange targets. Years ago I shot green targets under the lights. They were great

 

I always liked white targets under the lights. They look like trash can lids.

 

Well, I guess you had to be there.

 

Sun come up in the west in Phoenix? Sets in the east?

 

The Old Phoenix Club faced east (only off by a couple of degrees from being due east) which was a problem for getting started early, and the sun set in the west … WPT … (YAC) …

 

John, I hope for your working life, you were not a navigator. Or you forgot to add the LOL, after your statement about what way the Phoenix club faced. Roger C.

 

I shot the GWG in Reno 1976 and they threw White targets against the dark mountain background.
A little tricky for me.

Regards....Gerald

 

East, can't type....LOL

 

White Flyer targets were always painted "barn orange". Some of us still remember those old Remington fluorescent orange targets from many moons ago. They were something.

 

Where do you see a disadvantage here in this photo? Looking smaller is a psychological excuse. Both are black rimmed targets. You can see the black on the darker area target, even if ever so slightly.

 

I've been a member of my club since 1977. Heck, been there so long that a few years ago my age and tenure afforded me a free yearly membership until I die.
When I started we shot orange domes in daylight and white under the lights. Really didn't have to change for any ata shoots since they were completed in daylight. The "club" shoot day was Thursday every week and during the spring, summer season, and when it got dark enough we switched over the 5 houses to white. No big deal when we had a kid in the house but later when the turrets were full on all 5 pat traps it was a pain. And, then there was the down time while shooters waited for it to get dark enough to switch over. We turned the lights on early enough to let them warm up but the guys didn't want to shoot orange dome under the lights so they would sit on the bench and wait until we changed out to white.

It was a LOT easier to buy all orange, never have to hear anyone complain about not being able to see domes, not have to deal with breakage because we had to handle the targets TWICE ( next time that house was opened it was during daylight so the whites came off and the domes went in) not to mention the space in the warehouse to keep the orange domes on one side and the whites on the other. It ALWAYS comes down to money.

The board decided to KISS. All Orange, All the time.

For any of you "newer" shooters, the all whites at night under good lights were terrific.

 

There is absolutely no reason to shoot a black and orange target against a complete tree background. They're perfect in an open sky. They're even worse late in the day when the sun moves off to the side. Green is the ideal color against a complete tree background. We proved that statistically with much higher scores many years ago. I still remember the time orange targets were first introduced and the old timers complained they couldn't see 'em as good as the old black and whites. Some clubs refused to make the change-but not for long.

 

I always thought you should throw 4 different color targets, one color for each field then everyone could bitch and be happy a little all at the same time. It would be interesting to see which color had the highest average for the whole shoot. Brad

 

Ollie something that you and most of the folks who are expressing their opinion about target color don't realize is that everyone see's differently and what is a great color for you or me may not be as seeable as a different color might be. If everyones eyes were the same there would only need to be one color target and only one color of lenses for everyones shooting glasses. I think that there is no way to make every one happy on target color or whats the best color for your glasses that you shoot in. Just my opinion whats yours?

 

99% of the game is mental. If a guy thinks they look smaller then, to him, they are smaller. Just my opinion.

The picture really doesn't really tell me much. Unless I could freeze the target in mid flight. Most of the targets I have shot have been moving or flapping their wings. If someone could freeze the target so it looked like the picture then the rest of you are in real trouble.

 

The purpose of the all orange target was so small clubs could order their targets in truck load lots. The all orange paint was different than that used on the orange domes. It was brighter and florescent. It also was easier to see at night with the lights on. That way they did not need white and black rimed domes in in their storage. I ask the owner of white flyer why he used different paint on the domed target, his answer was I do not know.
The ideal target is the all black dull finish thrown up into a blue sky. Many clubs in New Mexico have this advantage over clubs with dark green trees. Roger C.

 

"The purpose of the all orange target was so small clubs could order their targets in truck load lots."

"It also was easier to see at night with the lights on. That way they did not need white and black rimed domes in in their storage."

Exactly!

I remember before the boxes were shrink wrapped on skids and we could use the fork lift to unload 1,500 targets.

The tractor trailer would back up to the overhead garage door and the skate wheel conveyor was set up.

"OK everybody, grab a beer and lets get them unloaded"

15-20 guys would split the work in 2 crews. 2-3 guys unstacking, setting them on the wheels, giving it a push to the next guy and so on until it was at the end of the run then 3-4 guys taking them off and stacking them on pallets on the floor, orange domes on one side, whites on the other.

The funniest thing that ever happened was the night, hotter than hell in the building, when one of the guys took a big drink from a cold Stoney's beer bottle and there was a rolled up peanut wrapper in the bottle. Hell, I'm laughing about it as I write this and that was almost 40 years ago. Anyway, he starts to swallow the nice cold beer and the wrapper goes in his mouth. The look on his face was priceless. He had to jump off the back of the truck to go outside to throw up.

Now, we all laughed our asses off, but I guarantee you, for the next 10 years any time any of us that saw that, no matter where we were, we always took the top off the bottle, then held the thing up to the light, just in case there was something in there the bottle washer missed.

That guy passed away a couple of years ago and I'll bet he NEVER stopped looking in the bottle first.

Sorry for getting away from the subject a little but the Stoney's bottle and Planters wrapper were burned into my brain that night and wherever we all shot after that you could tell who was in the building unloading targets just from the way they held their bottles up to the light first.

Most of that crew have passed away now and I miss the hell out of them. The Glory Days of Trap shooting and the best guys to be around.

 

If you have clear vision and a real hard focus on the target, they should look the same whether they are moving or not. Obviously, I am not talking about five feet from the house. They should look like this when you pull the trigger though. The main difference would be the target crossing between the lighter and darker backgrounds.

 

I can see that you superimposed them on the background so how far out of the house are those targets supposed to be? I can't tell without a house to give them some scale.

They look like they would be just about at their peak?

I never let them get that far.

 

PA state before all the changes to make it faster and get more squads through. Moving 10 traps was like shooting in 4 different time zones. Even using the same color they "looked " different.

 

And where's the all-orange target for comparison?

 

I remember those days! Currently the argument has been that the DOT Target we throw offers better contrast against the deep tree backgrounds. Personally I think it's a great All-Around target and doesn't have the "streak" like the All-Orange, especially on bright days, or at nite under lights. For me, I see the Black Ring area better on overcast, partly cloudy days or late afternoon at Elysburg, compared to bright sunny mornings there. But every club is different and should be up to each club to throw the best available option. Personally I'd throw the Fluorescent Pink we use every year for our Save-A-Pair Event!!

 

The all orange left a streak about 3 feet long in phoenix. I hated them. Roger C,

 

Never had a target "streak," but if I did, I'd shoot a bit in front of the streak. That streak would give me a great idea of the trajectory.

 

It's up in the skyline! See, you can't see it.

 

How is this?

 

Oh heck, bring back the Yellow domes we USED to shoot...

That is all we could get for a long time at our clubs.

BTW, see the two targets on the left below the tall trophy...Right one is the NY style and on the left is the Orange Dome target.

 

Brads Friend,
Great collection. Could you tell me what the difference is between the 4th and 5th on the bottom row? They kinda look the same. They look like Remington Blue Rocks from the 1930's. I see the 6th has an extra yellow band.

Thanks

 

That is why I see the best scenario would be the NY Style targets. Still plenty of orange, and the small black rim of contrast. Plus any chip off the rim will have at least a bit of orange on it.

I wonder if there are any NY style green versions. Maybe even pink.

Is that target on the right behind the trophy the top view of an orange dome, and the other a NY Style as well?

 

The reason I asked is because I found a few 82 year old targets that look like those in your collection. The box was pretty much beyond hope but I did manage to save a few "stacks" wrapped in newspaper.

 

We shot all orange at the club I belonged to primarily because of the green treeline in the summer months. When going to other clubs that threw the orange dome target, I hated it. Now orange dome seems to be the target of choice at the clubs I attend, and I have become accustomed to it.

 

In answering the questions about my collection, the one the right side of the right hand trophy is an Orange Dome.

There are three duplicates in the bottom row that were just filling space at the time.

Here are a couple of pics of the collection today.

 

Yes they are Stl ….Brad's Friend

 

Thats a really cool collection for sure, ummm I like the lowest green and the pink ones they sure "pop"

 

I thought I would share a few pics of thee traps I also have.

Top one is the DuvRock Trap

The Western White Flyer trap, and Remington "Wonder Trap" for skeet were the ones I set targets on as a kid.

 

Would you PA shooters (oleolliedawg & ebsurveyor) be so kind as to help me out with a little history on the Great Eastern Target Co.?

Woody Brown formed Midgard Inc. about 1955 and sold his precision plastics manufacturing company to Ametek Inc. in 1970. He continued to manage Midgard until 1987 when he retired. It appears that this company started manufacturing Great Eastern targets sometime in 1983, continuing until late 1987.

I assume the target company was sold because I've read about new owners James Swank, Elysburg and Dan Zenzel, Berwick, who applied for DER permits to start manufacturing targets in Danville, PA, up above Elysburg.

Were Mr. Swank and Mr. Zenzel successful in obtaining approval or did the company dissolve?

Better yet, when was the last time Great Eastern targets were thrown by clubs?

I'd sure like a couple for my collection.

HB

 

One thing is for sure. If you have a target in your collection manufactured by Woody's company you never have to worry about it breaking if it falls off the shelf and hits the floor.

We picked up more than a few one evening at the PA state that looked like a piece of swiss cheese.

"Man, I could have sworn I hit that one" was heard a lot that year.

 

Well, Danny Zenzel been deceased many years. I actually visited the Great Eastern facility when it was still in operation. As far as I can remember it folded and never re-opened anywhere else. You are testing my memory.

 

But you have such a good memory I'm sure your recollection will help with the history.

I did a little digging and it appears that Mr. Swank and Mr. Zenzel purchased the target molding machine from Woody Brown. I assume it was actually from the Ametek company and that it was part of the deal when he sold Midgard Inc.

The partners received approval and they opened the plant. They changed the name after they bought the target mold and rights and their new operation was the Keystone Target Co. and I suspect they just continued to manufacture Great Eastern targets and didn't change the mold.

I believe Mr. Swank lost a son in an 1989 auto accident and that may have been a factor for the closure. White Flyer was the largest target manufacturer in the country and had a plant in operation somewhere up in that section and may haver also be a factor. I didn't find any obit for Mr. Swank. He'd be pushing 80 years young I think. Hopefully someone will take time to sit with him and log the history as he knows it.

Mr. Zenzel passed in October 2005 near the family hunting cabin.

​

 

Dave usually visits me at Elysburg at least once /year. He still looks the same.