OH State Shoot falls flat - Mississippi Boycott to Blame?

Why was attendance so bad at the OH State Shoot? Was it the Mississippi alleged boycott? Bad marketing? Maybe even this forum's fault? OSTA mistake?

 

Weather. Tough to shoot from a canoe.

 

All of the above?

 

More people from the country Misc than Mississippi.

 

Down 6%

 

Down 6% compared to a year (last year) which had a near complete rainout day. All other days were down 15%. Compared to 2 years ago the shoot fell on it's face 9092 compared to 8236 entries this year. Cant blame this on weather.

 

Saving their time and money for the Championship series???

 

Good points BigMonty.
I guess to clarify a bit, beside the couple of downpours that hit this year I think the forecasted weather for the week may have played a role in attendance reduction.? On the weekend prior, and Monday of shoot week the forecast had rain and thunderstorms at 50 - 90% for each day of the shoot except for Sunday. For anyone travelling any distance (85 miles or more? ) and commuting each day, this could have been a deterrent to either drive and shoot in the rain with or without delays and then drive home, or folks that planned to make the trip and camp or lodge to potentially shoot and camp in the rain each day, may have been put off by the forecast.
Aside from the events, part of the fun of the shoot is hanging around the trap line, campground, vendor areas etc. and catching up with folks the shooting the bull. Not much fun in the rain. Also not certain if the forecast played a part or not and it did change quite a bit throughout the week, but perhaps that is one reason for this year's decline? Who knows, just my 2 cents.

 

Class AAA.

 

Brad. Good one.
LMAO.

Regards....Gerald

 

????????
How many D shooters stayed home because there was a AAA class?
How many AA shooters stayed home because there was a AAA class?

I am guessing none to all the above. Then according to Brad, he must mean AAA shooters stayed home since they could not have the AA shooters money. AAA had to play for their own money. What a tragedy!!!

 

My point was that AAA DID not have any positive affect on the shoot. If you check the attendance for the state shoot numbers have been going down since 2012 while at the same time the SCTP numbers have been going up. The ATA model that is currently being used is failing.

I would like for someone to do a graph on all the state shoots attendances' for 2018 compared to 2005, the last year at Vandalia for the grand, I'll bet you right now that there are few if any the same size today there were back then. Even better compare them to 1975, 85, and 95. Brad

 

This is NOT a hostile or critical posting....just an observation. The nostalgia and continuing focus on this forum for the demise of the Vandalia facility and shoots held there are understandable, but rather curious. After all, the numbers of Trapshooters who ever shot there or even knew of its existence are fewer and fewer every year. There's nothing wrong or bad about dwelling on Vandalia, but many readers simply don't care. That said, the interested readers on this forum can choose to chime in....or not. Think about it. Time Marches On... Regards, Ed

 

I really think it could be a combination of everything already said. I can vouch that I did not save any energy on putting on
the shoot as I am exhausted. Sometimes, threat of weather is as bad as weather. My understanding (definitely could be wrong-I just caught snippets as I was working), was Buckeye was also down. We can complain on here all day, and at the
annual meeting there were still just about 30 people present. I know that a lot of more knowledgeable people than I have great thoughts and opinions. I haven't been around that long in the running side of things, and I really hope some of these people choose to run for directors. There is plenty to do!

Thanks for all who attended, vended, and shot.

Tonya

 

Never shot at Vandalia but I guess planes in the background and flying over can be a nuisance. Shot a state shoot in the North East with a nearby international airport and it was a problem for me each time one of those big jets flew over. Seems one day the flight path was right over the club.

 

I sincerely think the feelings about leaving Vandalia are very much a thing of the past (gone but never to be forgotten) ... Those of us who shot the Grand in Vandalia have and will hold onto those memories long into the future being as it had meaning to us that is not and has yet to be duplicated or replaced by anything that even comes close ... Those that do not care never experienced what a real Grand is all about, (The Vendors, the Crowds, the beer tent, the atmosphere, etc ) and can only accept what it has supposedly been replaced with that does not compare and never will come close ... The attendance figures do not lie, that being the case there are not many "Happy Campers" in the ranks of today's ATA ... Shooting the Grand in Vandalia was the ultimate experience and an Event that was looked forward to and enjoyed by many, many times over ... The WSRC may be the finest facility in the world but cannot draw a crowd so that has to tell people something ... The members have long since gotten over the move to Sparta, Ill, most have moved on to other shooting venues or shoot practice on a social basis, for registered there is always Cardinal Center in Ohio that a lot of shooters consider their new grand ... Build it and they will come (scratch that) , make it, build it where they want it or they will not come, like they were told before making the move ... The fact that the WSRC is in a State that could really care less about its existence being as they cannot support or even maintain it without adding to their deficit should tell people something ... Those were the days, can still see some of the then Big Guns walking the line and talking to all of their fans, treating them as if they knew then all their life ... The planes and the delays were a part of it, it was "The Grand " ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

Truly SAD when the local Wal Mart attracts more shooters than the shoot itself ... Thanks for your support ...

 

What I'm talking about is that since the move to Sparta every state shoot has gotten smaller. The EC's only focus in those years has been to prop up the grand. While this singular "save Sparta" mentality has been going on clubs allover the United States have been closing. If the SCTP wasn't around organized trap shooting would be reaching skeet numbers.

The ATA is supposed to promote Trap Shooting not just Sparta.

Tonya check the demographic numbers at the state shoot on Bubba's web site. Look at the out of state shooters. The states around Ohio are loosing shooters, not just Ohio. Go back to 2004. The reason there are fewer shooters at the State shoot and the Buckeye is simply that there are fewer shooters, other than the kids today. Blame that on the ATA and there direction they have taken. Brad

 

''Time marches on'' But memories last forever.

 

Lest I am viewed as one who doesn't care, I did get to enjoy the Vandalia experience during the last three years before it closed. Yes, it was a great experience... I actually got a punch for one Handicap score and bought my first sure 'nough trap gun there. So, I do understand why it is so appreciated and missed. Regards, Ed

 

You never shot at Vandalia? If you had, you would not have made that post. No one noticed the planes at Vandalia. It was the greatest venue. Too good. So good the criminal element moved it to Sparta.

Not much was written in the forum promoting the last 2 CC shoots.

 

I shot one day,(Thur) and I can tell you if not for rain in the forecast to the tune of 80% chance every day, I would have shot 2-3 more days. I won't pay $32.50 targets and another $25-$30 in shells per event to stand in the rain. I finished in a light rain on the the handicap Thursday and decided I wasn't going to do it again. It is a 2 hour drive for me to Cardinal, one I'm happy to make in the sunshine.

 

Oh, and I shot the Grand in Vandalia 3 times and shot the Grand at WSRC the first year it was open. Haven't been back since.

 

I saw the picture in Terry Jordan's wall chart with a plane and it didn't look too good. I heard others talking about planes in the background also.

I shot in Sparta twice and loved the experience both times. I was much in awe the first time given the grandeur of the place. Yes, the management has problems...people shot in the dark my first year because they did not open up the west fields. This seems to be cured now. The cameras were not working properly the last grand for the live streaming etc. etc. However, the Grand is the Grand and I don't mind driving 15 hours to get there passing the CC on the way there. I would like to shoot at the CC one year when I have more time.

 

Did you ever think that maybe it doesn't have anything at all to do with Vandalia or Sparta at all. There are just fewer trapshooter's and your doing nothing more than driving more away by bitching about Sparta being a hell hole and Vandalia being the best place on earth. Get over it. Maybe it is your bad attitude and being a miserable pain in the butt to all the shooters that still actually shoot and enjoy shooting where ever that is.

 

It is on Terry Jordan's wall chart because it was the most sought out background to shoot against. But why tell you? You admit you know nothing about it.

Keep talking about a subject you admit you know nothing about. Troll on......

 

I have to admit - I viewed it the same way.. Shot Thursday and Sunday.. did not go Saturday because the weather predictions were terrible - and ended up being wrong.. The 9 years I ran a club I would be standing around wondering if shooters were gonna show up to a shoot and Aden Kaufman would always tell me "The worst thing that ever happened to trap clubs was the weather app on smartphones!" He was right!!! I could always tell when attendance was going to be down - all I had to do was look at the weather around North Lawrence Ohio. The sun could shining away but the forecast killed us time and time again!

 

Brad, I could fill a folder with rules I don’t like. But that doesn’t mean I know What I’m talking about. Kids definitely need to be encouraged to shoot, and it seems they youth organizations are killing it. I personally don’t want more categories, or classes, or reductions etc. if I am lucky enough to take home a trophy I want to be proud of that trophy. Unfortunately, most of my decisions had to come from a place of everyone else doing it and of course the ATA making rules we must abide with, and one person not agreeing doesn’t get anywhere.

I will continue shooting because it is the one place I can stand and feel peace, and a lot of good memories. I will not shoot a much as once because quite frankly, it’s expensive we are a elite sport with no big name/money sponsors. I have no answers. Just a love of the sport and my time put in, and the hope of better leadership in the future.

I have learned a lot in the four years of being an OSTA director, and am thankful for the experience.

 

I saw that EVENT #10 had an increase of 297 shooters on that Handicap, Imbelieve it was a STELLAR day, . Event #9 had an increase of 97, and event #11 had an increase of 40, 3 days in a row w/ increases, 9-10-11, it seemed the weekend was down, maybe Family things took away from shooting, Boating, Fishing, Grilling out w/ friends.

The expenses of ATA Trapshooting is almost prohibitive now, 32.50 + ATA fees+OSTA fees almost $40.00, shells $32.00 that's $72.00 $20.00 Lewis=$92.00
now add soft drinks, sandwiches, Gas, $140.00 minimum, plus the 25s & 50s makes at least $160.00, I am retired and I cannot afford it. But I was there Saturday and the Rain Threatened, and the Wind was up and down, more than usual., I think there was 3-200s that I saw when I left at 3:30 pm.

Those were the options I normally Played. + a Calcutta if there was one..

GB....................................DLS

 

How many AAA shooters were there? Was it worth the EFFORT, not taking the AA Shooters money? Ha Ha.

To me Singles is not a worthwhile Effort $80.00 + $64.00 = $124.00 and you haven't played a dime yet on the practice. That's all it is. You could call it an Endurance Event, but not for me,

GB.............................DLS

 

Brad I don't believe that there are less shooters, just less ATA shooters. Our area Sunday meat shoots probably out draw some of the state shoots.

Dave Berlet

 

We have a winner," BINGO " Dave Berlet you guessed it ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Can't be the rain Friday had over three inches and the numbers are up. Maybe the price increase for camping at the Cardinal a lot of open spots. Just saying

 

Hi Tonya - great to see the forum Rock Star here!
Thanks for all you have done for the State Association. You were Longshot's pick.

You have forgotten I was the guy that stood up and asked a question on the delegate's report. I was promptly told the delegate does not have to answer questions.

After than I cant figure how you got 30.....unless you counted all the OSTA officials, a couple kids running around, and few custodians.

Great to hear from you Tonya.

 

Let's look at this way back then. You are at the Grand, or Ohio State Shoot at Vandalia, you are on the Range/Field directly behind the North South Runway, You are taking the line and an Airline Jet has taxied to the Runway and pulled into position to Take-Off, You turn to shoot and the Jet has Brought up his Engines to take off
The Jet Engine blast and Burning Fuel comes into your face. I put my gun down until the Jet is down the runway a couple hundred Yards, I remount my gun and call PULL & Shoot.

I finsh my 4 traps and walk over to the SAUSAGE VENDER, order my sausage sandwich w/extra sauce and sit on the bench eat and watch the Planes Land and takeoff some come in directly over my head. WOW what a magnificent Location, that is now gone forever.

Gary Bryant..........................Dr.longshot

 

Are you serious or just joking about the jets, Gary. Last weekend at the Connecticut state shoot the jets were flying so low that shooters paused a little to give them time to pass.

 

Mike J.,
Honest to GOD, you had to be there to get the full effect ... It was part of the Grand, if you were never there you will not know what people who were are talking about ...
The first time (every time ) I went to Vandalia to shoot the Grand I was in awe, think IMPRESSED big time ... The vendors, the beer tent, sausage sandwiches, Burgers, Bob Allens girls on the Midway, shop till you drop, jets coming in over your head, doing a run up so close you could feel the ground shake, got to tell you man, you missed it ... Great time was had by all, then there was the Tipp City shooting after shooting all day (got to see and meet all the big guns there, $$$$$ ) ... There could be a book written about it and there was so much they would surely miss something ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

If a jet crashes at sparta does anyone hear it? Would anyone see it? Would the road be safe enough to get a firetruck in to rescue survivors?

 

Yes to all your questions even though the first two is unlikely. Glad to help answer your questions.

 

The biggest thing about "Vandalia" that is so hard explain to people who were cheated out of the Honor of shooting there, is ..... EVERY event I entered there, I felt like I had an honest chance at winning something worth the time and effort ..... Now it may be a China trinket for being the only 4ft tall, bald, left eye takes over, fat man that enters and uses 50/100 Mulligans .....

The money grabbers not only sold the grounds for personal gain ..... they destroyed a Great Sport with Mulligans and many other STUPID things, that now makes "ATA Trapshooting" nothing more than a very expensive Fool's Folly .....

 

Asked my 30 something son about Vandalia - he said he thought they were on sale at Kroger for 89 cents a pound. I told him I said Vandalia not Vidalia - he said what's that? I said a place close to Dayton where they used to hold a big trap shoot. He said who the hell wants to go to Dayton, is it still there? I said no, it's been gone for quite a while. He asked if there was another place now and I said yeah but a lot of the old timers and people who shot at the closed one don't like it and want it back like it used to be. Well, (in all his 30 something wisdom) ain't nothing like it used to be, it's gone, get over it and move on to what's next. What's done is done and can't be undone. Bout sums it up.

 

Columbus,
Fact is the shooting facility in Vandalia is gone, probably won't be forgotten till the last one of us who shot there dies ... Your son and the rest of the WHOOO RAH crowd do not and will never know what they missed and that's okay ... If they go to what is now called the grand, they will probably think "what the hell is the big deal" being as it is not and will never be the same or what it was ... I still recall many of the kool aid crew, knuckle draggers, and those sprouting about how great Sparta is and they still had not been there, let alone shot there ... Many said "if you don't like it, stay away because we do not need you " , guess what they got their wish and they found out "Yes they did need the ones that said they were going to stay away" ... They made up for the many shooters they lost with the 3 or 4 they picked up in Sparta (locals) ... You can shit in your yard and draw a bigger crowd than the facility in Sparta can ... I personally know of over a dozen people who did make the trip to Sparta once, some twice who said its not the same and they won't be going back ... I was there three times before anyone came up with the bright idea of relocating there, can tell you I never got the impression it was the place to move what was once the grand to ... There are more people who can care less about the grand , Sparta, Illinois, and even the ATA since the relocation, so you still think it was a good move ..? If you do, you are part of the problems and so is your son ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

Do your son a favor and get his hearing checked if he can't hear the difference between Vandalia and Vidalia ...

 

When you stood on the trap line about 5 or 6 traps East of the beer stand and one of those big passenger jets would come in to land from the south you almost felt like you should duck to keep from getting hit. I'm sure that they couldn't have been much over 100ft high as they passed over the trapline.

Dave Berlet

 

I remember sitting for an hour and a half for Dick Cheney one year, after we had to clear the Line for security. And if you could block out a Commercial Passenger Jet as part of the background, you have my full respect! I miss the place, but parking and the hour long Buggy Rides I could have done without!!

Jeff Graupp

 

The memories are not gone. The great stories are not gone. The pictures of the GRAND are not gone. The great trophies are in the closet but not gone.

What's REALLY gone are the shooters willing to go to that place in IL. How many last year a handful, if that, over 2,000?

I would say the other 2,000 that used to go to Vandalia HAVE "moved on".

 

Didn't say I thought it was a good move; haven't been to Sparta and have no intention of going. My son doesn't shoot trap at all. All this happened well before I shot my first target. Obviously things aren't working out for the ATA but I would ask one question; How did you guys who have been in this "sport" for so long let this happen?

 

We voted on the ballot and later voted with our feet.

 

I’m assuming we are still talking about last years off putting answer that as far as I know was answered later. It also was not a question to me, and even if it was I would not have known the answer. So, to the next, my “at a glance”math skills were not first and foremost on my mind. This was my first speaking role, and even if it was two people and a janitor, I was nervous. Although I’m pretty sure it was not a janitor as there was a large puddle of water right in the walkway to my left side. I recall Don and Sharon in the back, my left, and I think two more on their row. Then three total with Mike Roese. I also count Betty Petterson, as she was in the chairs there. Mrs. Denny Day was in attendance also So, around 9 on left side. There was a group in back right that I estimated to be 12-15. And then upper right maybe two sets of two. That gives me 24-30. Not counting anyone on the stage. Point being evenif I accidentally over counted attendance is poor. Your point of you having a very unsatisfactory meeting and still showing up is to your credit.

Thank you for your attendance, and caring about the sport. .

Hopefully those who can make our beloved sport great again can gain some voice.

Tonya

 

Columbus,
The ATA made the membership powerless years ago but the way the EC is structured, many on the BOD are also involved in stripping away any and all power the Membership had or ever had ... I been a Life Member since 1975, seen many to many changes so the EC can use the Members money as their own personal Cash Cow to support them and their shooting, besides the president (not caps on purpose ) a $20,000 Bonus to use as he (should be and or she ) chose's, oh and a new gun ... The concerned members did not let it happen but could only watch as it did ... The ATA ED, EC and many of the BOD do nothing to benefit the membership but they take good care of each other and the rest of the Good Ol' Boys club ... They will rot in Hell, we in the mean time will continue getting screwed ... Hope they bury them where we can take a leak on their graves, next to that HOF building in Sparta would work ... If someone gets elected and does not vote as they are told to they won't be around very long ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

This forum is the only "gain in voice" that has happened in a very long time for many ..... So, a big thanks for the effort some made to make that happen .....

I will never forget being at the Kentucky State Shoot, when there was an effort to 'vote out' "Pipe Layer" ..... When 'he' gets to count the votes, behind closed doors, and declare himself the winner by being the "incumbent" in a supposed "tie vote", I wouldn't put much hope in any change using the current system/by-laws that are in place .....

That same year they 'drew for banks' ..... we were walking out to 'our bank', that just happened to be the preferred bank straight down the sidewalk ..... when there was an announcement over the speakers, there was a "mistake" that ONLY affected our squad and "Pipe Layer's" ..... we had to move to BFE that had a horrible background, while 'his squad' shot where we were supposed to .....

It doesn't take people long to lose their delusion that the "ATA" can be "changed" under the current system/by-laws ..... But, good luck to anyone willing to try .....

 

How about an on-line certified petition signed by thousands of trapshooters demanding that the current flawed process for implementing changes to rules, policies and practices be repealed and replace immediately with a new change request process that requires complete accountability, requires complete transparency and would truly put the membership back in control by letting the members vote on the requested changes. If the majority of the members who voted, vote yes for the requested change, then the EC & ED must implement the change as quick as possible. This new change request process would also require the EC & ED to use the new change request process whenever they want to change anything. This petition would then be mailed to the EC and the ED with an RSVP date.

If the EC & ED refuses the demands in this petition, then the only recourse I see is for trapshooters who signed the petition to stop shooting ATA targets and look for the best alternative . Let me be clear, I want to see the ATA come back to life. I want to see the membership grow and the number ATA targets thrown each year increase, but changes are desperately needed for this to happen. The ATA must be driven by the majority of its members and not the EC and ED. I believe that a new change request process as outlined above can be the catalyst to save this dying organization.

 

Garry,
I do not think you would find a handful of members who would not agree with you and what you propose ... If the ATA by chance ignored such a petition the only alternative would be to take it to court to get it resolved ... The ATA would be spending (our) the Members money to fund a defense against us so we would lose either way, except maybe in the long run ... Those in the seats of the ED, EC, and many of the BOD do not care what the members want, which they have proved many times over ... Those Elitists feel they deserve all they can steal and more and the beat goes on ...

User 1 gave a perfect example with the election when Pipe Layer would not give up his position and the ATA did nothing or said nothing about it ... They concluded it was not their problem when in fact it was and showed exactly where they were coming from ...

Make up the proposal, I will gladly sign it and contribute to getting it enforced ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

This has already been done by masses of shooters who used to shoot registered targets ... The clubs are not lacking shooters, the ATA registered shoots cannot draw a crowd ... I drove up to the club one morning (early, hot out here ) there were 5 traps going with lines, Sporting Clays, 2 skeet fields, and it appeared they were getting ready to shoot bunker ... The ATA had a guy going around saying he was the Field promotion director (?) or some kind of title, he stood there and never did anything other than shake his head after humping their legs didn't work ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

wpt, in my area there are several trap clubs that have already closed and more are on the brink of closing because of a lack of trap shooters. Some of these clubs have never thrown an ATA target.

I agree that there are many shooters who have stopped shooting ATA targets because they no longer feel they can trust the ATA management team to act in the best interests of the majority of the ATA members. Having acknowledged that, I suspect there are several reasons for the decline in ATA membership and the decline in the number of ATA targets thrown. The world is changing whether we like it or not. What troubles me the most about the ATA management team is I have not seen a detailed action plan on the ATA website identifying who is going to do what by when in an effort to slow down or stop, (if possible), the negative effect these changes are having on trapshooting - both registered and non-registered. I would like to think that the EC, BOD and the ED would be working overtime to produce such action plan and then put it on the ATA website for all to see. But it appears they have no interest in doing so or maybe they are just incompetent.

I just read an article last night is Sports Afield titled: A Disturbing Decline which talks about the drop in hunter numbers over the last five years and the impact this is having on funding for wildlife conservation.

 

Did you all Forget the Camp Troy Day and Night Purse Shoots, I can say I took $1,000s of dollars home over the years from it. The restraint up front had the Best Strawberry Pies, we bought them the night before so we would have them at night after and during the shoot.

There were 3 other places shooting during the Grand.

Gary Bryant...............................Dr.longshot

 

Gary, I never won thousands of dollars at Troy but I did win a big television there that I sold as soon as it was given to me. Shoot the Grand during the day and then drive to Troy to shoot some more. Good memories.

 

I broke numerous 50s there over the years, One Year in Particular there was on 2, Me as squad leader, and my buddy Jerry on post 5, one shooter whas barred for life from the ATA Shot it 5 times, buying out fellow shooters entry, I told management if he breaks a 50, on one of them I am going to shoot it again, but our 2 held up and a fantastic payout. I was later told that they were going to disqualify his scores as you only were allowed to shoot it Once.

He was the guy who stole the Shell tickets and stamp and had friends pick up shells for him, and sold them cheap, got caught and Banned FOREVER, from the ATA.

GB.............................DLS

 

The walk would have done you good!

 

Some interesting stories about the EC etc but why not name names so we know who was responsible.

Jeff