Other stuff I saw at Sparta PICTURES

How busy is the midway during a shoot?















I have many more pictures to post. All the above are during the U.S. Open.

I report. You decide.
Merlo out

 

Well I can tell you came early on Wednesday, the first day of the shoot early in the morning.... it looked a lot different later and the rest of the week, maybe you should of stayed a while.

 

According to N1H1 and others it was a banner year this week at the U.S. Open. So where is everyone. I can tell you that place is lonely during the grand. People go back to the motorhome or start the one hour plus trip back to the motel.

Compare those pictures to Family Guy's pictures of the Buckeye.

 

From those pictures, that place pales in comparison to Cardinal Center.

Never been to Sparta, no desire, but CC on the other hand...What a lovely place ~~~

Any Trap venue that cannot draw a crowd though is sad, because entries are what keep a place going, and we are loosing way too many as it is.

Thanks Merlo

 

The loss of shooters is one thing the attendance at the WSRC is Pathetic on any given day, every day ...The number of shooters can and will usually vary from time to time, year to year but the lacking of attendance in Sparta is stable at all times lows ...The shooters do not want to be used and then have to drive additional miles on a daily basis while attending a shoot ...The ATA was warned prior to making the big leap into Hooterville by many of the shooters ... Those shooters have not quit shooting, they just quit supporting certain shoots like the U S Open, grand etc ... The Cardinal Center does not need the ATA, but the ATA sure as hell needs the Cardinal Center and all of the clubs that support it by collecting daily fees ... There was no business plan, it was built as a build it and they will come facility which turned out to be a bite in the azz ... Rather than take the grand off of Life Support by moving it, the ATA is going to stick it to those who attend as long as they can ... The ATA's worse enemy is the ATA itself not to mention those standing in line to be elected so they can get the gun they could of never afforded to buy on their own, for doing essentially nothing but collect expenses for being the big shot ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The grass is nice and GREEN

 

Actually they had a pretty good turnout. Some people just can't get enough of those points and trinkets. One shooter from PA made the journey and the balance were mostly from IL. It seems most shooters avoided the vendor buildings as trap gun expenditures are trending downward although most likely weren't even open. Those not supporting the vendors were probably grilling hot dogs and hamburgers at their motor homes and spending little for the local economy.

 

Merlo,

I assume the fields are facing due north, and if so and I see the shadows from the buildings correctly, the pictures were shot around noon when most of the shooters would be out and about.

Correct ?

 

Got there noonish Thursday. The handicap was starting when most of the pictures were taken. With there only being 200 shooters in an event, I am sure you wouldn't see many. It is just the way the place is laid out. Nothing new.

I try not to give my opinions. Just report. The place is designed very contrary to Vandalia or the CC. It is designed to get shooters to their traps without running into people. jmho

I report. You decide.
Merlo out

 

One thing we like on this forum is to be challenged. But....before you do the challenging you may want to do a little research or look a little closer. For example this picture ------>>.


You see it is a handicap event. Bank 9, squad 17. Looks like they are standing on the 25 yardline. You will find this squad at the beginning of the handicap event Thursday.

Thanks for telling me to stay. I did. I saw. I took pictures. They are what they are....from Thursday.

I report. You decide.
Merlo out

 

There were very few vendors open. Federal and Winchester were there as were a few others (nra, white flyer and others). Since there were very few vendors there was no reason for anyone to be seen in a lot of the pictures. Also if you have not been there, the traps on the west end (which is where these pictures were taken) are quite a ways apart because they are overlaid on skeet fields. The traps on the east end are all closer together but on Thursday they were not using any of those fields.

 

Strange don't you think? You have vendor buildings there and the place is laid out so very few people will be seen in the area. No wonder the vendors don't attend.

The pictures show it all. Thanks for the explanation Frosty.

Dumb....dumb....dumb

 

The thought and planning that was put into the design and lay out of the WSRC would take someone with half a brain thirty two seconds to lay it out ... This was a rush, rush, hurry up deal that could not get started fast enough so it could be finished soon enough to make the State of Illinois and the ATA happy ... The roads were graded and black topped without the use of a base (problem) which is part of the reason they are crumbling prematurely ... The buildings have flaws, the over all construction was hap hazard at top of the line prices ... The WSRC is basically a reflection of the State of Illinois, Sparta, Ill, and the ATA all wrapped in one big bundle and they wonder why they cannot draw a crowd ... The acreage is strip mined property that was owned by Peabody Coal sitting right in the heart of coal country and was not fit for anything other than what it is or a big parking lot where the locals could have demo derby's or Hill Billy Hoe downs ... The facility is a dark shadow on southern Illinois rather than be a shining light ... There should be a plaque with the names of the EC and bod who promoted and let this happen so no body ever forgets them ... It is what it is and what it will never be is a great place to host any sizeable shoots at ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Taking everything said into consideration, there's really only 1 reason for attendance being what it is. That's a lack of Hotels and Restaurants close to the Facility. I would bet money you'd have attendance similar to the CC if those were both more plentiful. But driving an hour each way to Eat and Sleep wears on you, and a lot to ask for a 4-5 Day Shoot there. As for the How and Why it's where it is has been argued to the point of futility. So what good does it do for the Health of our Sport to post pictures of Attendance? It would be like a Single A Baseball team playing at Yankee Stadium and showing 40K Empty Seats, then saying the Attendance was Low!! JMHO

 

DEDPAIR you are right about the reason attendance is poor. Location and design. But you have failed to acknowledge that N1H1 and a few of his pals are beating the drums on this touting their accomplishments on another fine failure. This place is destroying the sport. I doubt it will return. Too late. The pictures and discussion only exist to show the empty stadium.

And to N1H1.....PAY THE GUY. SHEESH.

 

The lack of hotels, restaurants, things to do is only the beginning ... Many of the Members do not like the way it was done more so than, where it got done in many cases ... The State of Illinois has always been a less than friendly state when it comes to guns but they saw what appeared to be the Golden opportunity to make a lot of money if things had been as presented to them based on what they observed in Vandalia ... The State changed, altered, or modified restrictions on buying ammo, guns so shooters could purchase same, only to change the laws back to as they were prior to altering them shortly there after ... The Lease on said property was a cluster F - - - to say the least, going from a lease to a modified version of to an agreement, probably to a rental, to who knows really (or cares) ...? The State of Illinois, the WSRC, Sparta,Ill are not and will never be a place that will draw the numbers needed to make it a success ... If this is not obvious after 11/12 years what exactly would it take to make anyone a believer ..? If it looks like shit, smells like shit, feels like shit, you don't have to take a bite to make sure its shit , do you ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Union and wpt, not arguing that at all and for the most part agree on all points, as I was around during all of this transition. I haven't been since 2009, so can't speak for current conditions. If time and finances were able to allow me to attend, I'd go because it's the Grand's Home and for all the reasons I attended the Ohio State Shoot in Vandalia several times. Beating a dead horse is just that, and mainly was stating all the negativity with this post doesn't bring the Horse miraculously back to it's former life!

 

Well then I suggest you all run for your State Delegate position. There has to be someone here from each State? So if you all ran on the platform of "Make the ATA Great Again" you could easily get elected and change the ATA for the better!!! As other than Brad and N1H1, have any of you ever been a State Delegate? And since you bring up the ED position, how many on here sent in a Resume? Change starts with you, and all I'm saying is that bitching and complaining never accomplished anything and putting the CNN spin on the US Open attendance was bad form. And now comparing the ATA History to 1930's Germany??

 

People have done that stuff DEDPAIR. You have heard of that guy Frank Rively that tried to make a difference?

Did you read how Family Guy was treated at the OSTA meeting?

You would like these guys to shutup until then right? How would anyone know what problems there are? The change starts with control of the media.

Great idea....here is how my resume would start.
Hi fellow corrupt friends. I am willing to overlook that PULL2012 stuff, the missing guns etc. I have a conflict of interest in your favor. What da think? Am I the guy or what?

 

Hey DEDPAIR to continue
How about this idea. Rather than telling us to shut up how about you shut up. If you don't like the truth typed here then you can buy the forum and censor it. Or better yet start one where that type of censorship exists. We need another one of those.

 

GeorgeinPA.

Actually Frank and I are friends and had several conversations with him during his tenure as ED. So fully understand the circumstances.

No, I don't know the OSTA story and Family Guy.

And like other posts, someone has spun my words to fit a narrative!!

I'll tell Paul Shaw to expect your Resume when I see him in July!!

Actually until you said it, telling someone to 'Shut Up' was never mentioned??? Perhaps you should report my differing Opinion and get me banned!!

JMHO

 

You were not that polite. You did refer to them as bitching. Shut up would have been more polite.

I don't think that happens here.

 

Hey DEDPAIR
As we are both from the same state you may know that the 15 shooters in the state of Rhode Island have as much a say as the whole state of PA.

The 75 shooters between the state of Alaska and the State of Rhode Island have as much voting power as Ohio and PA combined. Despite the fact that 2/3 of the targets are thrown in OH and PA. The State of PA has very little voting power. Frank will tell you. It cant be fixed in our lifetime.

 

George

Totally agree and had many conversations with Glenn Lash and currently Skip Klinger about that very issue. It's one of the main reasons Skip chose to run for Delegate!!

 

DEDPAIR
Tell me what we agreed on. I don't see it.

 

And while you are there DEDPAIR you can tell me why the PA delegates have not had the voting made public? Why no role call votes have been taken? Why they have not asked for role call votes? How has that helped with transparency and repsonsibility?

 

The way the ATA is now designed getting a delegate in place would do virtually no good what so ever being as the numbers would be against him or her if they opposed anything the EC wanted ... Resume for ED as stated would be like a "Bobble Head " with good suction ... We have all heard Lynn (the Talking Head ) make presentations and claims on behalf of the EC that were so far out even he could not or would not of believed them (generate 20 / 30 million in the local and general area, "ring a BELL" ..?) and be headed in a "Fantastic Direction" ... He didn't believe that BS or he is dumber than a BOX OF ROCKS and should not get sharp knifes with his steak dinner, but he is laughing all the way to the bank ($186,000 plus benefits last time posted ) ... Integrity is lacking big time on the EC, many on the BOD and for sure with the ED ... The BOD is loaded against the membership, the EC is loaded against the membership, Paul Shaw is only one man and as good as he is for the members his vote will be cancelled out by those in the "Good Ol' Boys " club ... The EC is set up in such a way they stand in line to get a new gun for doing nothing but sitting in that seat and attending shoots on the members money (think :expense account plus $20,000) ... There is no way to ever get enough people like Frank Rively, Paul Shaw and a few others in elected positions so they can make a difference ... The EC does and has told the BOD how to, when to, and how high to shit (VOTE) so if they have different views or desire to make changes they will be eliminated one way or the other so they do not ruffle feathers ... This is nothing new, it just gets worse as time goes by ... If by chance you think everything is as it should be, you are part of the Problem ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Which vote are you referring to? The annual PA vote at the State meeting or the Vote for VP at the Grand? Either way the vote in PA to Elect Glenn Lash and then Skip Klinger were overwhelming landslides and are part of the minutes you can request from the State Secretary, Ken Darroch. As for the Grand, if you didn't know Glenn Lash died from a heart attack about 30 Seconds after the Vote was announced. I assume Dennis Devaux recorded the Vote in the Minutes!

That small States have the same voting power as PA and OH.

 

I am referring to the PA Delegate's voting record at the grand. The voting has been kept secret, and that includes PA. There is no record of a PA delegate asking for a role call vote. Not once! Check the minutes. Go with the flow.

 

That's a question to ask Skip if you're coming to the State Shoot this week? I've never been to the BOD meeting, as I was always working Shoot Offs, so I have no idea why those votes are not part of the Public record?

 

Great pictures. Thanks for the effort.