us open 2018 entries

event #1 108

event #2 116

event #3 90

event #4 154

event #5 156

event #6 135

Is it by 35 % you decide compare event entries from last yuear

GB.........................DLS

 

Wow, that's amazing, Gary! Where did you get those numbers?

N1H1

 

We have numbers like that in a simple meat shoot in Ohio.

 

You don't know where to find those numbers? What's so "amazing "? That the good Dr. knew where to find them or that it shows that a few more people decided to go to that place in Il.

Dysinger was right again on his assessment of you.

 

I do not know anything about actual US Open numbers. I seem to recall something about a possible move to establish a minimum points factor proposition with the elimination of the customary attendance boundaries. I suspect the proposition suggests the desireability to improve attendence. Was the proposition implemented and did it work?

 

Event 1. 2017. 86
2018. 108
Event 2. 2017. 92
2018. 116
Event 3. 2017. 68
2018. 90
Event 4. 2017 148
2018. 154
Event 5. 2017. 139
2018. 156
Event 6. 2017. 115
2018. 135

2017 entries thru 6 events, 648
2018 entries thru 6 events, 759

Difference, 111 more in 2018, so far.

 

The 2018 U.S Open attendance through Thursday.

http://www.shootata.com/Portals/0/pdf/18USOpenAttendance.pdf

 

I remember running 50 100 target squads on a typical Sunday at out little 6-trap club in PA many years ago. Is this what ATA trapshooting has evolved into?

 

On another thread it was rumored that "650 pre-squaded last year for the U.S. Open....with 950 pre-squaded so far this year.....but, again, this is rumor or wild guess."

I believe source of the rumor or wild guess significantly inflated their numbers. I would estimate last year's pre-squad number would be less than 300. ATA reports show the total number of shooters last year's U.S. Open at 536. The total number of competitors shooting in one or more of the three championship events was reported at 469.

If half of last year's shooters pre-squadded ( I think 50% (half) is probably a high estimate), the number would be about 268. A 35% increase in pre-squadding this year over last, would be about 362 early sign-ups.

If the rumored 35% increase in pre-squadding equates to attendance and is a correct prediction, reports will show about 724 shooters this year.

Now I've fallen into the "rumor or wild guess" game, myself, but it would probably be best if we wait to see the actual numbers this year since most forum members prefer factual information.

HB

 

I guess one could look at posted scoresheets and count all the names that posted scores and backcheck that to posted event entries.
I really don't see what it matters how many shooters show up and shoot for any given shoot, no matter where it's held.
In my opinion, we should be happy people are showing up for shoots, regardless the location.

 

The number of entries are often at the top of the over all score tallies. But one could count them if they wish.

It doesn't matter to me. I was merely attempting to interject, for readers, the actual numbers provided by the ATA. But the number of entries does matter to shoot management. Its a gauge of success, it determines the ATA point factor, etc.

I am happy that people are showing up for shoots, regardless of location. However, in the case of the 2017 U. S. Open, not many ventured from other States. If I've counted correctly, about 361 shooters resided in IL; 78 from MO; 24 from KY & IN; 21 from TN; 8 from IA; 3 from AR & NE and 1 shooter from FL, KS, MS, TX and WI

I think it is probable that there will be more out-of-state shooters this year. But then again, it really doesn't matter to me as long as everyone has an enjoyable time partaking in a great sport.

HB

 

Given the attendance figures at an ATA shoot last weekend we've got plenty to be alarmed with. That shoot once drew nearly 65 squads for the 200 Singles event and actually held the State shoot years ago. Last Sunday a grand total of 4 squads made an appearance. It was pitiful at best. Other local ATA shoots last weekend drew similarly. Plenty of factors involved but the death knell for local ATA shoots is sounding loudly.

 

N1H1: I got the exact Info from the ATA's own website, Go to shoot ATA and look, it is an increase of 8.5%

GB........................DLS

 

Hey Gary, NEWS FLASH, nun-hun, or n1h1 as he calls himself, AKA Neil Winston, a REAL trapshooter, knew EXACTLY where you got those numbers before he asked.

 

Gosh, Flyers, I thought no one could use real names around here. In fact, that's why I had to change my sign-on name. Or has that policy changed?

No, I didn't know where Longhshot was getting those numbers; that's why I asked. I was misled by the term he used, "entries," which I took to refer to pre-squadding but I see that means "number of shooters" or "attendance" as used here and I agree.

However, I can't see where Longshot gets just an 8.5% increase; as I look at it it seems like a lot more than that. 20+% seems more like a reasonable estimate.

N1H1

 

Well gosh, gee willikers, and Shazam. I don't know if something had changed or not neil. Why don't you ask an administrator?

I do know that something's haven't changed. You TRYING to be "witty" or funny on that other site by taking a swipe at this one comes to mind.

…"and they are going to top that with their flyer-like shoot on Labor Day somewhere anyway, so who cares about the damn Open and...

Neil"

Maybe someone told you to change your name because they couldn't stand to even READ your real name.

Just sayin. . . .

Dysinger's assessment of you should be a banner on here, or at least a sticky.

 

What I was talking about, Joe, is this rule:

"Do not use or disclose personal names of members unless they are in the public eye."

Clearly I am not "in the public eye," and I think Flyer is violating your rule and my privacy by using my name. I have the same right to anonymity as Flyer, after all, and even you, Joe.

N1H1

 

OK, I won't tell anyone your "real" name that doesn't know it already.

How's this?

To anyone that doesn't know who a guy named neil winston is and what he did to screw up the ata you are going to have to look it up yourself.
You can search posts by HOF trapshooter Dysinger to get a good start.

Can I copy and paste any or all the derogatory comments about this site that were made on another site by this not to be named person?

 

Go ahead, Flyer. Just don't use my name, OK? It's against the rules.

N1H1

 

No problem
All I'll be doing is copying any digs or backhanded remarks you make about us or this site that have your name on them.
It's not against the rules if people read the name YOU put on the net.

 

Since this thread is about attendance at the 2018 US Open at Sparta and comparisons with other years, as of today about 100 more shooters than the previous record have taken part and there are still two event to go! A record year for sure!

N1H1

 

Two years ago the forum caught the ATA publishing false numbers about the grand attendance. The fake numbers were off by 50%. A miniscule retraction was made. Then there was the ATA giving the media attendance numbers. It was reported there were 15,000 camping and another 15,000 in motels during prelims. No correction made but the media was embarassed.

It is unfortunate continued instances like this leave a cloud of distrust.

 

So, what's this got to do with this thread? I don't get the correlation.
Explain please.

 

That's easily checked, FG. The names of the shooters are on the website. You also have access to the shooter information center and can check, in due time, if some "attendees" were not really there. I doubt you will find any, but it might be a project you would enjoy.

A decade or more ago, an EC member arm-wrestled the BOD into changing the penalty-classification set-up at the Grand American. Gone were the 2-year requirements and the attendant high target numbers. Also, rather than specifying a specific class in singles and doubles, like "B," the shooter would be moved up one class at the discretion of the handicap committee.

The US Open program reverted to the old system and you can see the outcome at the lower end of the singles championship results. There you find a bunch of mostly sub-junior shooters totally doomed in class B for no good reason I can see beyond the convenience of shoot management. As I look I can't see a single case in which a penalized singles shooter was near to doing half-well in the class in which he or she shot. What better way to discourage new shooters in their first "big shoot?" Who and what are they afraid of?

Why didn't they just copy the Grand American program rather then searching their memories for the "way we'd always done it," I wonder.

N1H1

 

Total attendance through Saturday is up 4.4 percent.
http://www.shootata.com/Portals/0/pdf/18USOpenAttendance.pdf

 

My guess is that after today's events there will have been 2527 shooters for an increase from last year of 22%.

Any bets?

N1H1

 

Yes....I will take the bet. You are on for $50.00. There will not be 2527 shooters. But you wont pay. Let's see.

 

There might be that many entries. Get ready to send the money.

 

Or do you want to make the bet for more? That way you remember this. Either way, we will all watch the big results. How about a graph? The graph should show how much my income went up and stupidity on the other axis. Make it colorful so we can see that as stupidity goes up so does my income.

 

Check or cash to

Americantrapshooter
PO Box 660
Salem, OH 44460

I am sure the forum can get me the money.

 

Pick a number as I did, FG - any number at all - and you are on.

Heck, I'll even take 2527 or more and give you 2526 or fewer if you prefer that.

Fifty dollars will be fine.

N1H1

 

NO......the bet is there will be fewer than 2527 "shooters".

 

Don't change the bet.

 

If every entry represented a different shooter you may be close to that number, may even exceed it.

 

Nearly all statisticians are men of integrity. I am sure N1H1 will pay if there is less than 2527 shooters. In the event there are close to 2,000 new shooters participating today, FG will be out $50. Lightning will strike me before there are 2,000 new shooters in one event at Sparta this weekend.

 

Changing what bet, FG? I wrote

"Any bets?"

I thought there might be some worth considering. Yours isn't.



N1H1

 

BS....bet offered. Bet taken. $50. Got integrity or just stupid talk? I am willing to put 2 more zeros on another bet but as is I doubt I will get the $50.

 

Get the pen out write the check for your dumb ass bet. Or are you still holding out on 2,000 new shooters in today's handicap event?

 

Back in the Golden days of trap shooting, as the late great Roger Smith used to call them, we held a yearly 500 bird marathon. 5 traps, and we could handle 9 full squads very comfortably. Always had a waiting list in case someone had to drop out or didn't want the whole 500.

So, we had 45 "shooters" signed up each "shooting" 5 events
I guess we could have claimed we had 225 "shooters "
But that would have been LIE. And anyone claiming we had 225 "shooters" would be an ass

 

N1H1 you are disappointing me.

$50.00

 

Agreed, Flyer. I guess that's why the US Open specifies "shooters" for the events, "attendance" for the total count of entries in each event.

N1H1

 

What's the bet. rickyd? Take your choice of either I offered FG. Or propose another reasonable one.

N1H1

 

It looks like you owe FG 50. Silly bet.

 

The ATA tried the silly counting scam two years ago. Shooters is for an event. Not all the events counting every entry as a separate shooter. Who thought you had the integrity to pay up?

 

Can't anyone here read? I wrote: "Any bets?"

That's a question, not a promise to enter into a bet.

I'm still waiting for a reasonable offer.

N1H1

 

PATHETIC WELCHER

Give me a graph of that. As demand for integrity goes up ..... actual integrity goes down.
or as demand for honesty goes up ..... actual honesty goes down.

Get your crayons out.

 

FG: "The ATA tried the silly counting scam two years ago. Shooters is for an event. Not all the events counting every entry as a separate shooter. "

Isn't that the way it's done now? Why do I have to explain things like that to you and Flyer, FG? Are you both afraid to even click on the ATA website or something? It's not contagious; really, it's not. And you might find it's interesting. It's about trapshooting.

N1H1

 

How about a graph showing that as integrity demand goes up actual integrity goes down. Or as demand for honesty goes up actual honesty goes down.

Welcher....Another lifetime achievement award. Right up there with you getting that lifetime achievement award for being instrumental in removing the sport from trapshooting.

Are you as proud of that award as you are welching out on the bet?

 

2527 what? SHOOTERS is the way I read it.

 

What was Dysinger's assessment?

 

You are right, Flyer. I should have written "attendance" as the ATA does or "entries" as R. J. Stuart does, not "shooters". I regret the error.

N1H1

 

You don't have to explain anything about trap shooting to me or anyone on this site. Most of us had shot our first Trap targets and our first registered targets long before you ever came calling.

 

Just add it to the long list of things you should regret when it comes to the ata

 

At least it wont cost you much:

Americantrapshooter
PO Box 660
Salem, OH 44460

$50.00

and I plan to remove that welcher part.... as you are a man of integrity.

 

The ata using attendance is also misleading. Normal for them but none the less misleading.

When we held that marathon we had 45 shooters. If someone asked, "How was the attendance ?" The answer would be, We were full, 45 shooters. NOT, we were full we had 225 shooters.

If there was shoot somewhere that had 10 events and 100 shooters showed up and shot every event, you still only had 100 shooters.

How many attended the shoot?

UHHH, 1000, yeah, that's it, 1000, that's the ticket

 

Wow!
Hope all this BS between N1H1 and Family Guy doesn't count on overall site traffic!
What a threadkiller,
But posts are up!

 

Total entries in the 2018 US Open held at the WSRC in Sparta, Illinois: 2631.

Percentage increase over entries in the same program in 2017: 27%

N1H1

 

Good News! A lot better than 2,527! Regards, Ed

 

2631 and to that they needed three more events added.

2631 entries divided by the 13 events = around 200 entries per events.

PA and Ohio has around that many people in meat shoots.

The most exciting event is N1H1 trying to explain why he is not paying the $50 he owes.

 

STaT, I suspect you to don't dare click on the ATA website just as so many here. Really, it's safe. You won't catch anything.

To help you underSTand I wrote "Percentage increase over entries in the same program in 2017: 27%"

By that I meant that the number of events was the same. There were not "three more events added." There were 13 both years.

N1H1

 

Cripes thats good. I wont catch anything. As long as the chances are less than fair that I wont catch the narcissistic ass attitude you have that seems to lead to utter stupidity. It is rare someone makes a bet on a public forum that exposes senility.

Re-reading your post where you fail to comprehend the difference between the statistics of the number of shooters vs the statistics relating to the number of entries shows much about your brain function or lack of it.

Even then after you realize your mistake you fail to do the right thing.

The stats remain the same.........around 200 entries on average per event.

And.......there was close to 2000 fewer shooters than your bet number. I am sure your brain functioned well once. Not now.

I am sure you are angry. Pay FG the $50 you owe. The assessment by Dysinger is 90% correct. jmho

 

If the 2 of them were the only posters talking about this and someone asked you how many posters chimed in on the subject what number would you use?

 

I had a few experiences with one of the shooters many years ago, he used to post responses then remove, modify, or delete them when they were contested or challenged and claim he never posted such a thing ... Many people had faith in what this person said because it was usually confirmed and backed up with a few charts, graphs, pictures, balistics, etc and so on ... This happened a few times and rather than argue and or debate the point I made a folder for postings by this one certain particular shooters threads ... It didn't take long and he must of figured out what was happening when a post came back and bit him a few times ... This was just in case and for when he would deny posting something and then recant on same ... I had many, (way to many ) retractions, deletions,and denials that I got to the point where I eventually blocked this particular shooter rather than bother with him in any way, shape, or form ... Stupid is what stupid does and now he won't pay up on a $50 bet ..? Integrity is worth a lot more than $50.00 (reputation) to most people (key word : MOST) but not so to others ... It has been years since I had to be subjected to any of this persons rants, raves, and snide remarks ... I was told but its only a rumor he never got picked for a team in school because they didn't want to lose the Water boy ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Geez guys, realize you can't ever satisfy everyone about this. Saying "shooters" catches flack as noted above. Saying "entries," I think would get the same response since entries can differ from actual shooters. IMO, "entries" is probably the best term to use, as most people familiar with the game know what it means. And that serves for most purposes, some better than others though.

There is no way to state the numbers and not be open to someone else claiming it meant something else. Shooters and entries are basically interchangeable in some situations, and not in others. Much ado about nothing.

 

Of course they are not interchangeable.

A successful U.S. Open would have had 2600 shooters. It may have had 500 shooters. What educated person other than N1H1 and Bat does not understand the difference?

A successful U.S. Open would have had 2000 entries per event. Instead it had an average of 200. What educated person other than N1H1 and Bat does not understand the difference?

 

When and if all else fails add up the entries for X number of years and make that the total so it looks better to the peons who don't know any better ... The WSRC is a failure any way you look at it, it is not one of the ATA's better moves, but they are not convinced of that just yet ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

statman,

I know your reading comprehension must be better than that, so I guess you just are being adversarial. Still would be nice if you quoted what I said instead of only the portions of a sentence you want to take out of context.

Even though I pointed out they are not interchangable for some purposes (think shoot attendance if you need help figuring it), I think you are living in a cave if you think shooters don't use the terms incorrectly at times. But, quite often we can still figure out what the other person was talking about from the context of what they wrote or said. Sometimes not ... but this thread is fairly easy to determine what was meant. Of course, if you are not looking for discussion, and only argument, you can nit-pick informal writing on a thread and twist someone's intent.

What's the big deal? From whats posted here the Open is up over last year and the Buckeye down. Big Deal. It is much easier for the Open to show a larger percentage increase since it is a smaller shoot. I'm glad its up, that's no knock on the Buckeye, unless you are looking for it.

 

Besides the US Open last week there were several other larger shoots going on.
I looked at RJ Stuart and Shootscoreboard and besides the
US Open the Alabama State Shoot, the Copper City Classic in Montana, the Buckeye in Ohio and the Oklahoma State Shoot were all last week.
That's a lot of people shooting trap.
This doesn't take in consideration of all the local registered shoots and the meat shoots that occurred around the country.
There were hundreds maybe thousands of people shooting trap last week.
The continual Sparta bashing on this site is disconcerting to me and getting quite tiresome also.
I for one am delighted there are so many places to shoot and that people are shooting, everywhere, including Sparta!

 

1 Entries vs shooters statistics has nothing to do with the Buckeye.
2 It has nothing to do with Sparta in my opinion.
3 It is about a self proclaimed, self serving, narcissist using fake numbers and misleading names for the numbers to justify his position.

N1H1 did just that but someone caught it. It should cost him the $50.

If you want to travel that road you may wish to note the U.S. Open lacks shooters but has a higher point value. Self serving narcissists may use fake numbers to justify that. Counting entries and confusing the members seems to be the norm.

So what is the Big Deal you ask......

It was just recently that the ATA doubled the numbers for the grand. As reported it was caught by this forum. Some may point to the Executive Director having a business or two there or PULL2012 EC selling property to themselves. And then there is the hiding the HOF going to the State of IL.

All that and you say. BIG DEAL.

So much for transparency.

 

STat, you wrote:

"Entries vs shooters statistics has nothing to do with the Buckeye."

but I have bad news for you. Dr. Longshot just committed exactly that crime on the Buckeye thread! So it has EVERYTHING to do with the Buckeye! I warned him that you would be after him but I'm not sure he realizes just how serious this sort of thing is for you. Please go easy on him; I think it's his first offense.

Myself, I'm sending him a bill for $50 for correcting his math. I sure hope HE doesn't welch!

N1H1

 

Longshot was smart enough not to challenge someone to a bet. Your ego has it's own zip code. You were not charged. You just plain lost a bet. You owe $50. Good that you may be finding some humor in it.

 

US OPEN ENTRIES Continued:
event 7 242

event 8 265

event 9 182

event 10 496

event 11 222

event 12 204

event 13 260 this was the Hdcp

The ATA Gave out a total of 286 trophies, event 10 got the most trophies @40 there were runner up trophies

event 12 Doubles got 31 trophies.

What was interesting in the HOA shooters was a low score of 4, that tells me somethings rotten in Denmark, what did he do shhot one event and broke a " 4"
not all shooters shot THE HOA # of target in all 13 events.

Event 13 the Hdcp got 31 trophies there were runner up trophies.

I inadvertinly skipped one event.

There was a definite Lack of AAA Shooters, ATA Score Points were 4 for the shoot.

The biggest event was EVENT # 10 w/496 shooters, I believe this was an STP Entry for the schools. I would take away 200 shooters from this event.

265 shooters was the highest on event #8 and #13 w/260 shooters.

I would give a total shooter enrty by a stretch Lower than 265 by taking out event #10 w/SCTP entries. This was just a ONE DAY EVENT.

Do you agree w/me on this? Or use a 265 # for event # 10 w/ a reduction of 231 shooters for a fair Total event of entries.

Take the very 1st post I made of the US Open Entries and add Events 7-8-9-10-11-12-13.
All numbers taken from "ATA Shoot ATA website"

GB...................................DLS

 

In my Opinion The US Open was a Money Losing Project for the ATA, if this event was Done at a Gun Club and they Paid the ATA their Standard Fee it would have closed them down. They would not have made enough money, It would have been a Money Losing Proposition. ( do you agree ?)

Gary Bryant...............................Dr.longshot

 

The ATA makes money even when the State of Illinois (WSRC ) loses money on a shoot ... The State IDNR gets $3.00 per entry (paid) not those thinking about shooting, walking in the vendors area or who happened by because they got lost ... The ATA is supported by all of the clubs collecting daily fees, without them the ATA would of been toast a long time ago ... The ATA has way to many people with their hands in the pot, it was not designed or organized so it could support those on the EC and or any on the BOD, besides pay a talking head (Lynn Gipson) to be ED ... If the State of Illinois gets smart and pulls the plug on the ATA (WSRC), the ATA would be screwed being as the other clubs able to host a mini grand like they have at Sparta would be over run with shooters and they do not want to deal with the ATA on that level ... Mental Midgets , Micro managing would not make for a good time ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Dr. L
Where did you come up with 265 SCTP Shooters in count for event10?

In past years the IL SCTP was held during that event but not this year.
The IL State SCTP Event is 6-22, thru 6-24.Not 6-2-18
Also, SCTP kids are required now to join ATA and recieve registered targets just like any other ATA member so even if there were 265
SCTP kids there so what! They still count as participants.

 

That is true that only singles are registered in SCTP.

This thread is about the USOpen. It matters not what happens at the Cardinal Center as far as this thread is concerned.

But, thanks for your unnecessary comment anyway.

 

I honestly do not think the fact that Gipson has a gun store on the WSRC site has one thing to do with the competition factor in the US Open shoot.
I do agree the factor is higher to try to get more people to show up.
Gipson also sells guns at the Cardinal Center.
Do people complain to Fishburn that he's there?
Does Fishburn care?
No. He doesn't or he wouldn't sell him the space.

 

Yes really. The guys or gals that are there for the higher competition points aren't buying guns from Gipson.
And they're not going there because he has a shop there. They're going for the points.

 

I'm in no way a fan of Gipson but he had the gun shop and the reclamation prior to taking the with the ATA.
Was he supposed to just give those up?
I don't believe the ATA has the leasing rights to the shops on vendors row. I believe Illinois still handles all that.

 

We can only assume the ATA knew he had the businesses.
He ran the KCTA in Kansas City.
Then moved to Sparta when he took the ATA job.
So was he supposed to sell his side businesses?
Why?
Sounds like a bit of jealousy to me or just bitter because someone from Ohio didn't get the job.

 

Dog you are right on all counts. And there is no issue!

 

Looks like a conflict to me. I am not from OH. Was the name KS Trapshooting Assoc part of Pull2012?

 

Don't know the answer.
The KCTA is in Missouri, not Kansas.

 

I doubt you will see Neil around here much now.

Proving him wrong has a price. No humor. No more Neil for you.

 

Talking about a conflict of interest, lets see who gets the deal to mine the lead at the WSRC, when the times comes ... Lynn Gipson (the Talking Head) owns a lead mining company also, as the ED he would have access to any and all bids for mining the lead when it gets done ... If you know what the bids are it should be reasonably easy to beat out the competition and get the job, or don't beat out the competition and get the job ... Seriously doubt the members will ever be privy to any of the hocus pokus that's goes on behind closed doors or be able to get honest answers ... This should be interesting, stand by and watch this ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Why would the ED of the ATA have access to the bids when the State of Illinois owns the property. The ATA won't have any say in who gets the bid if and when they do lead reclamation at the WSRC?
Illinois still owns the property, not the ATA!

 

Smelly Dog,
That is how it is supposed to be, wait and see if there are recommendations and who gets recommended ... Time will tell being as there has never been a lease agreement that was accepted by both parties (published) that we (the Members ) have been made aware of so we would also not know what if anything is included or excluded from such an agreement ... The ATA does not own said property but has made recommendations to the State on other issues, that got accepted ... I say Lynn (the Talking Head ) is right in the mix and probably the winner of such a contract (agreement ) when the lead gets mined ... Care to make a wager, I only bet with those who pay up when they lose so that would eliminate a few people ... (They know who they are, no need to mention names ) ... WPT ... (YAC) ...