Rules and information on Championship Series

My source says a meeting was held yesterday. Agreement made with the venue for the first shoot. Venue name still not given. Not sure why. Very soon!

Rules

125 bird event.

The targets will be 55-57 yards.

All shooters will shoot ammo provided by shoot management.

Ammo will be given at the firing line.

Ammo will be one ounce 1200 fps or a little slower.

No failures to fire allowances. A bird not shot that is whole is a loss.

There are no illegal targets.

Shoot at a broken target and the results will be scored.

Handicapping as follows.
Everyone shoots the first 25 targets from 25 yards. Handicapping goes to number of birds you broke. Minimum yardage 20. The next 100 targets will be shot at the handicap yardage.

There will be a re-squad after the first 25.

Target Setting

Targets will be set at wider than the straightaway from stations 1 and 5.

Expect targets to be over 55 yards long.

Moneys

Much of the money and purses are still being determined.

There will be a reverse run jackpot supplied by a forum.

There is added money from vendors.

There is a forum contributors purse.

There is a mandatory % purse. 40, 30, 20, 10 for the top 4 numbers shot. Ex. 112, 111, 100, 109.

There will only be shoot offs for trophies.

Trophies. High score from longest yardage, Champion, Lady, Youth.
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First shoot is labor day weekend. There will be a preliminary event Saturday. Special event auction Saturday evening.
Sunday is the main event.

I am told there will be 2-3 shoots next year to determine National Champ. They will be Labor Day and Memorial Day weekends, and maybe one mid summer. To be National Champ you will have to shoot both events. (Total Score)
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I report. You decide.

Merlo out

​

 

Just in.....

Special event information.

All shooters are automatically entered. No special event entry fee. No mandatory self buy.

All shooters not purchased will be put into a pool called the "Field". The "Field" as a whole will be the last auction.

I report. You decide.

Merlo out.

 

Whoa! Thanks to all for the work getting this going! We’re enthusiastically looking forward in participating, supporting and being a part of what is going to be a Great competition for everyone to enjoy!

Thanks again!

Kevin

Bruce Bowen & Co.

(Chris & Bruce Bowen)
100 Straight Products

 

Another heads up....rec'd email saying

Later entries will automatically be put in the "Field" for the Special Event.

I report. You decide.

Merlo out

 

A bird called loss will not be changed. Claiming targets not allowed.

 

Since the shells are included and there is a mandatory purse, what is the total cost to shoot?

 

Could it be: " GRAND NATIONAL " 1 Ounce Championship American Trapshooter Championship"

More Ideas Guys

GB.............................DLS

 

I like what I see but I am not sure I agree with this *unless* you have both a scorer and a referee, shoot off style. Even the best scorers make mistakes. If you’re throwing 55yd 4 hole handicap targets using slow 1oz shells there is going to be a lot of chips and chunks.

 

I will answer but they are fine tuning some of this.

125 Shells $ 33
125 Targets 35
Purse 20
Special Event 0

Plus or minus a bit. I am sure this will change.

I also got some info that the purse payout may be modified.

 

Tighten the chokes and shoot'em quick boys. Chips shouldn't count any more than feathers.

 

Name of shoot.......?

American Trapshooter Championship Series 2018

 

I have never been given a shell restriction at a flyer shoot before. If I’m taking feathers off I want to leave a mark!

 

Hold high, call quick & shoot fast.....(lol)

 

3-3/4 Dram, 1-1/4 oz shot, nothing bigger than 7's. Most will stick with 7-1/2's but some will shoot 8's in the firsts barrel if it is warm.

Shot 3-1/4, 1-1/4, 9's in the single barrel race. Had to swarm the little buggers when the box fell open. I think I might still have some of them sitting around.

870 with a 28" FULL barrel and a tuned up trigger.

 

Thanks Merlo, it should probably be plus a little bit. As far as the Calcutta? Nothing wrong with a small entry fee, $10.00 per shooter. IMO

 

The entry fee on a Calcutta helps to increase the pay outs on same considerably ... Can't imagine anyone would shy away of the Calcutta for $10, the pay to play method ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I look for a lot Of DUSTED targets., I like 1oz #6s @1320. But all will be Equal in shells category.

GB..............................DLS

 

Any guesses as to the mysterious venue?

 

''The Shadow knows''

 

I will bet a box of Eight Sisters Donuts it will be 150 miles from the border of OH and PA.

 

I have accepted that it is time to stop beating my head on the wall thinking we have the ability as shooters to control or change registered shooting.

Are you still trying?

The facts have been laid out on the forum. Thanks History Buff. The history has been outlined, year by year, changes, and moves that have changed registered shooting. We had a president that got a lifetime achievement award for being instrumental in removing the challenges in the sport.

This isn't the end of challenging targets. It happened long ago. Easier targets on the horizon? Of course.

The ATA moved to no-wheresville where the wealthy motorhomers only can reach it. Weekend warriors kicked to the curb. And no more money. A game now designed for $40 trinkets shot with heavy $20K guns. Many like that.

Registered shooting is what it is. A vacation week for wealthy pals to shoot with their wealthy pals. It is not about the money. Not about the competition.

Enjoy registered shooting for what it is or isn't.

Competition, challenging targets, money....another game is coming.

 

Guesses on the high score for such an event?

 

Oleolliedawg says the wide angles wont bother the big shooters. He says target speed wont bother them either. And the distance wont bother them. Believe the dawg then 125 straight will win it.

110 of 125? Won from short yardage.

 

Duh?

 

The winner will be the person with the least amount of Donuts.

 

The total fees for this shoot is just under $100, $88.00 is Mandatory Entry, Possibly a $10.00 Calcutta entry, would be $98.00 + your Buy in the Calcutta.

These are my estimates of what it will cost.

Payout will be one of the best possibly ever shot!!!!!!!!

Gary Bryant..............................Dr.longshot

 

Garry,

I think it is a crime here in Ohio (especially at the Cardinal Center) to use the words "least" and "donuts" in the same sentence!

I'm excited to see this shoot taking shape. We will have Dysinger "Czaring" all over the place so I hope nobody gets any of that on them. Berlet will be keeping a watchful, albeit aged eye on the competitors. I'm guessing Joe will be there to document the event with lots of pictures. With any luck a beer tent will be up and running by then so we will have a place to gather after the shooting ends and tell tall tales of the ones that got away and raise a glass to the winners. Kinda sounds like exactly what I do every time I hunt at Thornbottom!

 

The total fees of $88.00 includes the Calcutta, I hope this becomes a Multiple Shooting Venue, Only thing I think is going to hurt is it is being Held on Labor Day and so many shoots are held on that day, at least 3 State Shoots, can we overcome that Criteria? What do you Guy's think, I am not being negative here, just being practical. I want the best for this shoot, and a great crowd. Can we get 600+ shooters to enter?

Gary Bryant...........................Dr.longshot

 

They say they are expecting far more than that but the chosen venue may limit the number of shooters. No ink on the papers yet.

 

What is the ruling if your gun breaks while shooting? Is it scored as a loss and will you be allowed time to fix or get another gun?

 

What happens at a live bird shoot? You lose the bird when hunting. I say loss.....jmho

 

My thinking exactly...so no shooting the soft kicking Rem 1100 with bucket of parts. Stay with my never break TM1

 

Update to the update. Agreement complications due to large number of shooters expected. Venue(s) are still in the works.

I report. You decide.

Merlo out

 

Practice traps?

 

Since this is like a flyer shoot, there will be plenty of gambling. To start the side bets, I'll take the under on +/- 600 individual shooters in the largest single event for any amount of money. Any takers?

 

Whoa on that 150 Mile statement, things may change, DONUTS may be lost, NOT MUCH.

GB...............................DLS

 

I must say, I am looking forward to this. I have never been able to interest the ATA in the technical testing of any proposed rule before jumping in with both feet, but I will follow carefully the results regarding the brand of shell you select, the speed of the targets when launched, the angles thrown, and, of course, who wins and by how much.

It should be fun.

N1H1

 

Interesting considering the $$$$.

If only 400 shooters X $20 manatory purse = $ 8,000.00

If all are in the Calcutta as mentioned = 12,000.00
at only $30 (silly small amount)

Add 50's (guessing here) = 3,000.00

Added money so far (still early) = 4,000.00

Add other options = $
----------------
$$ SOME SERIOUS JACK! $$

 

Minus:

The cost of targets and shells: 400 x 5 boxes of shells , 50,000+ targets, labor, wear and tear on the facility, a reasonable profit for the club willing to handle this, and all the other unclassified costs that gun clubs find popping up when they hold a serious shoot.

N1H1

 

Money from food sales, Bingo for the ladies, Trips to the Casinos, Hope we can get that SAUSAGE GUY that used to vend the GAH & OHIO SHOOTS,
Elmer selling guns, and other Gun Dealers, Shooting supply vendors, selling Shot, Powder, Wads Etc., Plus the Saturday Games Shoots, Annie Oakleys, Miss & Outs.
5 From the Parking Lot @ $5.00. 50 Bird Calcutta's on Saturday. WOW what a program.

NO ATA or STATE fees that will save approx. $2,400 off the top, No ATA Personnell needed, No BOD, & EC, more money for the CLUB. NO COSTS Paid out by the club to hold the shoot to the ATA, a WIN,WIN for club & Shooters., NO Computer Guys like RJ Stuart blocking banks causing back ups.

No fees to hold the shoot Like ATA Charges for Sattelite Grands, More Money for the CLUB. WIN, WIN

Will use the Card system Like Winchester Va. Shoot did in the 70s Alphabetical System.

GB....................................DLS

No BS From Computer Guy's Blocking Banks, Starting Banks Drawn before shoot starts.

 

So, you are going to enter?

 

Oh heck no. I can like the Kentucky Derby without wanting to become a horse, cant I?

N1H1

 

The targets are TOO HARD for N1H1, and he is not handicapped. He has to shoot P*ssy targets to be competitive.

Geeesh All Talk & no Do

Gary Bryant.............................Dr.longshot

 

Lighten up doc. No do is better than do do. Mom said that. But shoots sound like fun. 55 yards target.

I am guessing you wont have to have an average card.

 

How about if there was a kool aid stand next to the beer tent?

 

[QUOTE="N1H1, post: 44533, member: 661"]Oh heck no. I can like the Kentucky Derby without wanting to become a horse, cant I?

N1H1[/QUOTE]

That's what I thought.

 

Odds are on a Ky Shooter to win.

GB..............................DLS

 

My money would be on one of the ATA big dogs. Give them a couple weeks after the Grand to practice on these targets. Maybe they miss one or two on the qualifying round, then give them 100 targets at the 23. Should be easy money.

 

Gary, Be nice. Neil is being nice.

 

That's right doc. All you have to do to see how 'nice' is to take a trip over to HIS site and see all the nice things he has said about us.

I don't know about the rest of you but I DON'T FORGET or FORGIVE.

One more thing Doc, you ARE right about him and his shooting.

 

I thought we didn't want to be like "HIS site."
But I understand. I have been around trapshooters my whole life.
Too bad we all can't get together and shoot some games. You know, where the whole world does not rely on one or two birds and a great shot is fun as hell.

 

Might as well say "tell me bout the rabbits"

 

From the cost projection given, this IS NOWHERE NEAR A FLYER SHOOT. Hey John, just curious to hear from other Flyer shooters. What was your best score at any shoot when they turned the crank?

 

From the cost projections posted this will not even remotely resemble a Flyer shoot. 125 birds alone would cost you $1,250.00. Plus the "must spend $100 somewhere" stipulation and the availability to play all the money AND the $100.00 buy in for the Calcutta and the other $100.00 if no one buys you, well you know all that anyway from your own Flyers shooting, so I'm preaching to the choir right?

Broxton Bridge was only 30 birds and you could spend between $1,200 and $1,500 a day so this shoot will not be like a flyer shoot. I don't know about you but having that much money on the line compared to less than $100.00 sure would make a difference on my nerves.

BTW, since I always like to hear about fellow Flyer shooters, what was your best score anywhere before they turned the crank.

 

All the original threads said it’s a “Championship modeled after a Live Bird Shoot”. There are a couple of threads to that effect. Did that change?

I’m not on here to brag about past accomplishments but thanks for the test. Let’s just say I’ve run the crank more often than they they needed a load em. I can’t beat the good gun pointers but I can sure bet on them and take my chances in the poker game.

 

OK, this won't be a flyer-like shoot; we believe you. But the winner will be recognized as the best games shooter on that weekend for dozens of miles around and that's worth something, isn't it?

NiH1

 

I had been invited to a few Live Bird shoots over the years and have to tell you it will take one hell of a shoot to even come close to an actual live bird shoot ... To say I was impressed would be a gross understatement and the excitement was obviously in the air as money seemed to flow endlessly ... I knew right off it was to rich for my blood thanks to financial obligations I created that needed a roof over their head and food in their belly's ... To be there and observe was a thrill in its own right, got to hand it to those shooters that participated ... I do not think one can compare The American Trapshooter Series to a live bird shoot but it will certainly be a lot more of a Challenge than registered shooting has become over the years and the pay outs will no doubt exceed the average registered ATA shoot if all goes as planned ... This will be interesting and just might surprise a lot of people ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Cripes....this is a nightmare for John. The CC is doing great. Americantrapshooter Series may take off and we continue to talk about the corruption. And worst yet, this forum exists Sleep well John.

 

I guess so Neil. Kinda like the ATA shoots where the winner is the best at that particular event "on that weekend for dozens of miles around."
I think the guy who won the PGA tour golf event in Texas yesterday was the best golfer on that course "on that weekend for dozens of miles around."
As you often say,
Yours in sport, Jake

 

Looks good. My comments would be if this is a competitive money event, under the proposed rules you better have very high quality scorers. Scorers and refs would be great, but probably cost prohibitive.I say this because if scoring errors (yes, they do happen) cannot be corrected, you need people that don't make mistakes. Also, scoring a bird thrown broken can be more complicated than you at first think. How do you define a dead bird when there are numerous pieces in the air? How do you know which piece was being shot at? Are you sure a chip was not taken off the chip that went left, when scorer is concentrating on a piece that went right? Seems to me it will cause more trouble than it is worth.

 

Was thinking the same thing about the pieces.

 

That's all you need is some hot headed guy throwing a temper tantrum about the score keeper looking at the wrong piece...Brad might have to call for backup!

 

"Let’s just say I’ve run the crank more often than they they needed a load em."

All I can say to that is HUH? WTH are you talking about?

It wasn't a test. From your post about betting I assumed you were a pigeon shooter. Then you posted that you are not on here to "brag" about your "accomplishments".

First, it isn't bragging if you really did something AND COULD PROVE IT. Second, from your answer it sounds like you really don't have any idea about what I asked you.

But keep posting, the graphmaster can't do all the comic relief stuff himself. I had to go back to work last Monday after my hip surgery and the job still sucks so I can always use a good laugh when I get home. You would be doing both of us a favor.

 

OK, I'll bite. What's "running the crank?"

N1H1

 

If you don't know what I'm talking about perhaps you should give that pin back to whomever you borrowed it from. Sorry I don't meet your criteria as a 'real' pigeon shooter. Good thing I have nothing to prove to you and am perfectly ok with that. But thanks for taking such an interest in my posts.

 

I may be mistaken, but I did not read where the AMERICAN TRAPSHOOTER CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES, was compared to Live Bird shooting.

N1H1: I threw that at you for all the ridicule you threw at me when I was on that OTHER SITE, And all the comparasions I saw on How tight patterns were shot w/ Fabarms and Caesar Guerini HP tubes were throwing compared to the other BIG 3 Guns.

You doubted me on everything w/your graphs, and YOU never shot a CG or a Fabarms w/THEIR TUBES

Bob Schultz posted numerous times on the CG & FAB postings on their HP Tubes. Plus new buyers of CG & FAB on how tight patters were shot w/factory tubes.

Sorry but bad Memories stuck w/me.

Gary Bryant..............................Dr.longshot

 

All the original threads referred to the 'championship series' being modeled after live bird shoots. Here is a thread for you to re-remember:

http://www.americantrapshooter.com/...mpionship-modeled-after-live-bird-shoot.4804/

 

I know exactly what I am talking about. I took interest in your post because you acted like you were a pigeon shooter. Instead it comes out that you are a fraud. You really don't have a clue about the game and couldn't list your "accomplishment" because you don't have any to list.

I shot my first pigeon shoot around 1976. In 42 years I NEVER heard anyone say they "ran the crank". And your childish comment about me borrowing that pin is just stupid. BUT, I'm going to give you a chance to act like a man.

You brought up the idea of betting in your sarcastic post about betting that less than 600 would shoot this event. There probably won't be that many but I'm still going to give you the opportunity to make a bet.

Trap & Field magazine didn't loan out those pins. They were awarded to anyone that killed 25 straight pigeons. You saying what you did pretty much called me a liar so here's the deal.

If I wasn't awarded that pin by T&F for killing 25 straight, the ONLY 25 that day by the way, I will donate $5000.00 to the purse of this shoot.

If in 2000 however, I won the Warren Klinger Memorial Shoot at Valley View Gun Club in Eastern Pa. with the lone 25 STRAIGHT and the small notice in T&F a month or two later that lists the names of shooters awared that pin has my name on it, and I show the picture of the family handing me the trophy for that day YOU WILL DONATE $1000.00 to the shoot. Pretty simple for you and you are getting 5-1 odds on top of it.

I "borrowed" the pin, didn't kill 25 straight and am lying about it, it cost me $5000.00

I was awarded the pin, and you are wrong, it cost you $1000.00

Time to put up or shut up.

Boy, I'll bet you don't know WTF to do now do you? I wouldn't want to be in your shoes knowing the guy you just took a swipe at has the goods and can PROVE IT.

Let me know asap if you have the nerve to back up the talk. The sooner the event gets another $1000.00 in the purse the better.

 

How about an optional Lewis class where the 4th score starts first place Lewis? This way after the big dogs take most of the monies...well you get my point.

 

Good morning sir,

Congrats on your momentous accomplishment 18 years ago!? Did you beat Rig Boyer in the shootoff?

You should be be proud and I'm glad I gave you an opportunity to tell us all about your great day. I'm hoping next we can hear some stories about how you scored 4 touchdowns in a single football game back in high school, how hot your prom date was, and where you spent new years eve on the turn of the millennium.

I love to gamble but I'm not going to bet on ancient history from an event at a club that hasn't had a flyer shoot in over 10 years. How about we set up some sort of 'grudge match' style shoot for $100.00 a loss? Though at this point I'd like to donate the pot to a charitable organization rather than a shoot that currently has no date, no venue, no program, and no rules. I may change my mind as details emerge but right now I like youth trapshooting. This should be a no-brainer for you since I don't have one of those pins and probably never will.

 

Jakeroo: You should have been around When N1H1 was Posting all his graphs & Patterns Doubting Mine, I posted several of my Patterns, showing Measurements of my Patterns with Factory CG Full Choke tubes, and the doubt that NEIL kept saying that my Patterns were not Accurate. Where I used to live I could pattern my guns in the Backyard, I had 3 acres w/pond. I shot off the porch using My Railing for a rest sitting in my Lawn Chair. I did hundreds of patterns with Different Loads using 700-X, 800-X, PROMO, & Longshot, w/ 7 1/2s, and #6s all being 1 1/8th oz loads from 1200-fps to 1585fps. I wanted the best LONG SHOT LOADS for shoot offs, I even sent some to STORMIN NORMAN, A poster on here, ask him how they shot, and MOTOR DOCTOR how they shot. The PROOF is in the PUDDING not on GRAPHS. GRAPHS produce what you enter, Bad Stats = Bad results, You must have a WARPED idea to really believe what you enter in a GRAPH. Some TOP DOGS quit using Expensive Trapguns and went to CGs and Fan Arms. I patterned My Choke Tubes at reality Shooting Distances, where the Factory Patterns their Guns 35yds
that is the distance good shooters break their targets, I break all my targets on the RISE as I get on them fast, Just like the BIG DOGS. Since I injured my Left shoulder ROTATOR CUFF 15 months ago, I have been using weights to get the strength back so I can hold the Weight at forend. My Fabarms RS-12 has a new Bbl a 32" O/U using #9 tube in Bottom Bbl and the #7 Tube in Upper Bbl. 7/10ths & 9/10ths Constrictions. Enuff for now.

GB...........................DLS

 

I am proud of earning the pin. Even more so than the silverware from the Grand.

There was no shoot off. To have one you need more than one top score. When I walked off the last ring Rig and Pete were the first two guys to congratulate me though and that was nice.

I never played football, my prom date WAS hot and I spent New Years Eve comped at the Atlantis on Paradise Island, Nassau. What else do you want to know?

" I love to gamble but I'm not going to bet on ancient history from an event at a club that hasn't had a flyer shoot in over 10 years."

I never said it was yesterday and the bet wasn't about where and when anyway. YOU said I 'borrowed" the pin, implying I was lying about it. I guess somewhere in all that sarcasm about the football game and prom date you are admitting you were WRONG in claiming I "borrowed" the pin?

"This should be a no-brainer for you since I don't have one of those pins and probably never will"

No doubt there. But hey, maybe you could borrow one from someone.

You should have just answered , I apologize sir, I was wrong for doubting you.

 

Atta boy John.....never bet on history when the facts are often in black in white. Not on this site. I'll bet this leaves a bitter taste too. Yuck!!!!!

 

John, Maybe your alligator mouth just over ran you bird dog ass. Flyerarebest, just called your bluff. Roger C.

 

There's belly aching already about lost targets and referees, before the first shot is fired. This is going to be a clay bird shoot, not a live bird shoot. If u don't likes the rules spend your money elsewhere. A Birds called lost, is lost.
Maybe we can get someone to donate crying towels. OR, maybe we shoot and see what happens.

 

Problem with todays kids they put there mouth in gear before there brain! Its not hard saying -- I WAS WRONG -- SORRY! You never see that today -- Its to bad!!!!! Ron

 

Most likely those that are complaining , will not even be at the shoot. They just want to be a pain in the a$$ to those that are trying to get the shoot going. I'm sure they will have very competent scorers. There will be some changes between the first and second shoots. And the agenda will always be improved upon. BUT, do not look for ATA style target presentations. Roger C.

 

Roger, I'm not complaining about the rules, just pointing out areas where you are likely to run into issues. As far as the scorers initial call being the absolute last say on the matter with no ability to correct an obvious error, that's fine by me, as long as everyone accepts that. When money is on the line, and you and I and the rest of the squad see a decent sized piece off your target, and then hear LOST, many guys would not keep their mouth shut. You might be different. We have all seen this happen. I could live with it knowing that's how it will be for everybody, but keep those fingers crossed! It'll work if you have good scorers, but none of us can say they have never seen scorers make bad mistakes.

As I said, I think scoring the broken target issue is a messy one if you really think about it. Yeah, it will probably work out ok, I just see the potential for problems figuring out which piece was shot at if a shooter wants to push the issue. Then again, since there is no correcting any errors, it doesn't matter I guess. Would be easier to just say its lost if you shoot at a broken target, consider that one a hen pheasant!

 

Video replay cameras? Look what it has done for football ! -- now baseball ! OOO YYAAAA A BETTER FERGET ABOUT THAT IDEA!