Dave Shaeffers Suspension should be nullified

The whole ATA handling of the affair was not truly justified, where a simple warning would have been justified.

Gary Bryant....................................Dr.longshot

 

I like your idea of a warning if it's documented, signed, dated and electronically filed. I personally would have preferred that the EC would have used that process for Earl Scripture. His lifetime ban was way out of line in my opinion.

 

Warnings were not warnted. Was in the other thread they are adults and know better! The ATA did the right thing! It's done let it go! Just more ATA bashing!

 

Do you KNOW something others do not ????? You are making a statement of FACT .....

When I talked to Mr Shaeffer, it was NOT "done" ..... You must have talked to him after my conversation with him ..... So, please explain what factual information you speak of .....

 

I agree. We should have an online petition going where you sign up with your real name. It is about time the ATA EC know that many shooters are tired of their bullshit! I don't want to start the petition but I will sure as hell sign it.

 

Ignor T....he doesn't even support the WSRC and it is in his backyard. A businessman only leaching off trapshooting. The by-laws have a path to re-dress if more info comes available. The courts can get involved at any time. The members can as well.

 

Mike J.
In a perfect world that would work (petitions) but based on how the petitions were handeled and had any meaning prior to the re location to Illinois they would be a waste of time ... The ATA does not care what members want, they only care how they can continue to milk the cash cow the ATA has ended up being for the EC and or BOD ... The ATA was told what would happen before the move and they moved there any way ... It had to shock the living chit out of them that there has not been decent attendance since making the move to the WSRC in Sparta, Ill ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The ATA made their ruling that should be the end for those not involved. Petitions should not matter this is not a popularity contest. Let those involved have there say. If the ATA didn't do anything the same people that are whinning now would be whinning that the ATA didn't do anything!

 

The ATA EC did a lynch job on Mr. Shaeffer. They made it sound like he banged a loaded gun on the ground. And if the woman did not taunt him he would not have said what he said.

 

You are NOT "involved" and had YOUR say ..... "It's done let it go! Just more ATA bashing!" .....

So, sit back and drink more Kool Aid while the adults have a conversation.

The "ATA" must not agree ..... they felt a need to change the All American standings .....

 

I see now it's the woman's fault! Really you were there? I didn't say who was right or wrong just that the ATA did there job. That's my only say. No kool- aid but no BS like yours.

 

Are you trying to say THEIR job ????? How do ever expect to get passing grades like that ?????

What was THEIR job supposed to be ?????

 

Enforce the rules.

 

How did that squad come about? Did David usually shoot with them? If so why did they continue to squad with him seeing as he was repugnant to them. Is there any connection between the squad and Kolar? If Kolar did not like David, why not just remove him from their ranks? If he was sponsored by Kolar, all they had to do was drop the sponsorship. That would be a much better way than what was done. We have heard a lot about David's actions and character, but nothing about the people that confronted him in the parking lot. This in it's self seems a little strange.
The sooner we see another organization get started the better. Then the members will know better than let the governence get away from them and into the hands of self servers. Roger C.

 

Sorry Roger, two people on that squad (complainants) wouldn't know Dave from Adam. They certainly weren't happy with his antics. Getting yourself banned from the PSSA grounds isn't an easy task. I know, I was there and interviewed both individuals before making a suggestion. Let's just say Dave has a tendency to erupt negatively at times.

 

Wasn't it a handicap event with 26-27 yds shooters?? Hmmm.

 

I said "woman" to identify the complainant by sex. I don't want to get into the person name which is well known by now. Anyway, I was told by very reliable source that she said something to the effect to Dave after the event, "You would not behave the way you did if you were shooting well." NOBODY should say something like that to another shooter mostly when they are having a bad day. I don't condone the response she got from Dave, which was terrible, but it is what its is. The EC should have looked at the whole sequence of event and not overrule the vice president recommendation, which was reasonable. I will never contribute to any ATA fund raising event if they continue their authoritarian ways.

 

I do not know anyone involved, the penalty seems or appears to be extreme at least on the surface as presented ... They are taking away accomplishments and points that were earned prior to this event and that in itself does not seem right to me and that's why it seems excessive ... How is it possible to turn back the hands of time and say because of his actions today he did not do or earn points or break targets he is being stripped of ..? I can see if his actions were outrageous they take points and penalize him from that day forward but not in the past ... If this case ever goes to court I think any Judge or Jury will see and feel the same way ... It is also opening one hell of a can of worms for the future (EXAMPLE: you did this today, so I will take things away you did in 2015, that's BS ) ... This will make one hell of a case for actions and past practice if its upheld, a lot of people will be put in jeopardy ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

YES AS THEY MAKE-EM AS THEY GO, and that is the truth so help me GOD.

GB....................................DLS

 

ATA Cheating was not involved, Next time I would Pick My Squad Mates Better


GB...........................................DLS

 

Oleo, We keep hearing about his actions after he was confronted at the end of the round. What was so bad about sticking shells that prompted a confrontation when the round ended? If a shooter is upset, the last thing anyone should do is confront them in any way. It seems there was a total lack of good judgement on the part of the woman that prompted, his lack of judgement also.
Did David have Kolar as a sponsor? Does Kolar have a dog in this fight, if so what is it? Are intersport politics involved in this action? The PSSA and EC have put a blot on their credability by not divulging the reasons for their radical actions. To wipe out previous accomplishments over a later action is about as vindictive as it can get. Roger C.

 

I do not know, but makes you wonder if maybe she ( the Lady that made the comment) should of had a penalty doled out to her for her actions so far as a confrontation as well as being banned from the PSSA for instigating a problem ... It appears she started it with her comment and he (David) possibly reacted to a number of things not going right that day and that was the straw that broke the Camels back ... Kind of like when Hillary said " Vote for me because I have a vagina" and she lost any way ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Is it True this woman has been in a Lot Altercations over the years? This should be looked into, seems she has a History.

Is she a Squaky Wheel the ATA wants to satisfy?

GB...............................DLS

 

T Shot
You say the ATA did their job and in a sense you are right but did they take every possibility into consideration before rendering their decision, which could, would, and should be considered part of their job also (responsibility) before handing out penalties that could be costly to someone ..? You obviously have tunnel vision and only see what is presented eliminating any possibility (probability) of cause beyond that which could of be part of the cause for the problem in the first place ... I was told once as a very young man "Somethings are better off not said" could this be the case on the part of the lady who asked or made the remark to compound an already not so good day on Mr Shaeffers part ..?

I have to ask : Did you vote for Hillary because she has a vagina ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT
All the ATA did was use what they were told by those involved. That's all they should do! What if's & maybe's have no place in it!

 

Try to be logical if you want to be taken seriously. Why did the EC go against the Vice President's recommendation when he (the Vice President) obviously spent more time deliberating on the issue?

 

Does anyone remember what happened to the "points" in Target-Gate ????? Where the 18-yard wonder was said to have "cheated" .....

Is it if there is "said cheating", you keep everything ????? But if you talk nasty to someone, the "ATA" takes earned "points" where there were no reported problems, so the "ATA" can control who is their "poster child" .....

That may seem "out of balance" if challenged in a court of law .....

 

Does the lady have any connections to the Kolar team or company? If she has a record of problems, maybe that should be looked into also. David is being held responsible for past actions. she should be treated the same way. This whole thing SMELLS, of a set up. It is a damn shame on the perpetrator. Especially on the EC. Roger C.

 

Mike
The EC must do what they think is right. Not just one person makes the decision. That's why there is a EC.

 

That is not "why" there is an EC. The VP is part of the EC and makes the investigation and recommendation. Up until now I have never heard of the VP being ignored. That is why the VP makes the investigation. Still not sure why T cares. He seems to be boycotting the WSRC in his backyard. Also he admits his only interest is that he has a business locally.

Not buying that. He is using daddy's computer.

 

Smithy
It takes a vote by the ATAEC not the just the VP. The committee makes the decision. And you don't know what your talking about. I don't live in I'll I don't have a business And I support the ATA & WSRC! I have been to EVERY Grand there!

 

Smithy:
You might want to revisit the ATA Rule Book , in particular Section XII, C. The complaint is assigned by the EC to the State or Provincial Delegate representing the State or Province in which the alleged violation occurred with instructions to proceed as required in accordance with the ATA rules [Sec.XII, C5c(4)]. In the subject case the investigation was conducted by the 1st Alternate Delegate (Neilson) due to a conflict of interest with the State Delegate. The individual appointed to conduct the investigation makes the recommendation of action, which must be specific and not left to the discretion of the VP. The file/recommendation and all related documents are then forwarded to the Zone VP for review. After which the VP will write his own recommendation with supporting facts. All members of the EC are provided a copy of the file and all recommendations and will advise the ATA President of their agreement or disagreement with the Zone VP recommendation, or any modification thereof. Unfortunately the recommendation of the 1st Alternate was not disclosed in the minutes.
Also you may want to invest in a new line of communication. One only needs to go to the minutes of the 2016 EC meeting to find a disposition by majority vote (Complaint #16-05). Admittedly it does not happen that often but it's nothing new and unusual.

 

Then of course it happens often. Name a few. Not the one.

Tell us all those times the VP was ignored. Not majority vote. Those time(s) the VP was ignored.

Also how can you say it "doesn't happen often" with the statement "nothing unusual"?

 

T Shot,
The EC is obligated to do what they have researched and" know for a fact is right", not "what they think is right" (knee jerk reaction) otherwise they are useless ... Thinking a person is guilty of something and knowing it for sure makes a big difference in the out come at times ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I don't think it is a question of "guilt" ..... When I spoke to Mr Shaeffer he was quick to "admit" to "banging his barrel", and talking not so nice to someone on the squad after they "said something" .....

The "question" becomes what was the "proper action" for the "complaint" .....

If it doesn't bother you that the "ATA" can remove a years worth of accomplishments as "punishment", you are a hack that is not interested in "winning" anything .....

The "unsafe" is so stupid no one could make sense of that ..... The "conduct" is not something that should be allowed ..... But, it is the "punishment", for what Mr Shaeffer "admits", that should concern any serious shooter ..... You can spend a year and a lot of money, then the "ATA" can make a "punishment" retroactive ..... If that is not way over the top, nothing is .....

 

What would the EC's approval rating be if there was a test ran? My bet is it would be under 15%. What is yours
Roger C.

 

My guess, it would be much higher .....

Most of the Weekend Warriors gave up long ago ..... so most of the "approval rating" would be from the two groups of 27 yard shooters ..... those who feel it makes them look better than they are, and the "Pro Class" who feeds off any low hanging fruit ..... that should account for about half of the "active members", that would "approve" for self-serving reasons .....

 

The weekend warriors are still the heartbeat of trapshooting. The beat goes on. Not as much at registered events. This is by design.

The ATA sent a poll out. The poll included the blue collar shooters. The ATA chose another direction with target difficulty and the move to a gun hate state in nowheresville.

Take that poll to Vienna F & G where they have 30 squads on a Wed morning. Almost all are non-registered shooters.
They would ask....who is Shaeffer.

 

If by chance there was a POLL (Test by Roger C.) taken the problem would be getting enough shooters who still give 2 shits to respond to it ... Then getting anyone in the ATA who gives 2 shits about what the shooters care about to represent the results to the rest of the Good Ol" Boys ... I see and talk to many shooters who shot a lot of registered targets, now they shoot for fun or quarters against friends at a cheaper rate than registered was or is today ... They do not shoot any less, just less registered and many have crossed over to sporting also ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

T-shot: It is not bashing, when all facts are known, we have a lady that is/has been a Prolific Troublemaker over the Years. The Steel Shell base hulls have been and are a problem yet today, Mr Schaffer may have forgot his Brass Shell Knocker in his trunk, so bounced the Trapgun Recoil Pad on the Pad to dis-lodge the hull, Which I feel was poor judgment and deserved a Reprimand/Warning, now if it was a LIVE SHELL?

The Ruling should be re-visited and applied at a PROPER DATE, not taking away earned Endeavers!!!!!

Gary Bryant...........................Dr.longshot Life Member 47 years

 

DLS;
It is not my intent to question your veracity. However, I am curious as to how you know for a fact that the lady, presumably Sandra Jo Jack since she is the only female involved in the Shaeffer incident from the facts stated to date that I am aware of, is/has been a Proflic Troublemaker over the Years. I personally do not know Mrs. Jack but I have been told from several friends that have known her for many years that in their opinion she is a person of the highest moral character and integrity. There have also been several posts to the other "Shaeffer Suspension" thread is this forum attesting to the same. It appears that all posts in this thread or the other that allegedly question her character have been posted by individuals having little if any knowledge of the facts merely as suppositions to support their straw man arguments. In addition, I have done a cursory review of the ATA/EC minutes for the past (16) years and have failed to find any prior complaints filed by or that Mrs Jack may have been a party to.

To the contrary, although I do not know Mr. Shaeffer personally, I have been at numerous tournaments that he has attended and have observed him exhibiting lets say a somewhat questionable behavior both on and off the trapline. I believe Mr. Fortino, in the other thread, attested to observing a similar behavior by Mr, Shaeffer which occurred at the Grand. I have also heard of behavioral issues at ATA tournaments involving Mr. Shaeffer over the years, Elysburg, Millington and Carney Gun Clubs to name a few in which some have said, to describe Mr. Shaeffers behavior as unsportsmanlike would be an understatement. As a result of the incident in question the PSSA has barred Mr. Shaeffer from their grounds for (2) years. Now I may be way off base and I'll ask the "Dawg" to correct me if I am, but in my opinion ones behavior would have to be quite extraordinary for the PSSA to take the action(s) that they did. Keep in mind Mr. Shaeffer isn't just barred from the PA State Shoot, he is barred from (5/6) of the highest attended ATA tournaments annually in the Eastern Zone.

So, with all do respect sir, perhaps you could be a little more specific as to the "facts" as you know them by which you are so willing to impugn the character/actions of this lady and so willing accept and/or dismiss those of Mr. Shaeffer. I ask this in light of a totally unrelated recent court case in which the jury decision seemed to represent a very similar viewpoint as yours. Perhaps you have heard it, The Kate Steinle Case.

 

10Guns ..... first, "Dr Longshot" can answer your "questions" about his post for himself .....

But this, "I have also heard of behavioral issues at ATA tournaments involving Mr. Shaeffer over the years, Elysburg, Millington and Carney Gun Clubs to name a few in which some have said, to describe Mr. Shaeffers[sic] behavior as unsportsmanlike would be an understatement." ..... I will "tell" you what I have told "Bat" ..... Making a "statement" using "what you heard" to sway opinion in a thread, is garbage better taken to Kool Aid Land.

To use YOUR words, "So, with all do respect sir, perhaps you could be a little more specific as to the "facts" as you know them" ..... and keep "I have also heard" in Kool Aid Land .....

 

Curious as to the answer to this question > > >

What do the actions of any of the parties previous to the incident, have to do with the suspension?

And what do the actions of any of the parties previous to the incident have anything to with the thread?

 

It looks like someone may be "willing to impugn the character/actions" of someone with "hearsay" ..... in what looks like "hopes" to possibly sway "opinion" .....

First paragraph ..... "I personally do not know Mrs. Jack but I have been told from several friends that have known her for many years that in their opinion she is a person of the highest moral character and integrity."

Start of second paragraph ..... "To the contrary"

Also ..... One person's "post", "we have a lady" ..... no name used ..... Next person's "post", I can count 6 times " Mr. Shaeffer " ..... was used in the second paragraph .....

 

User 1,
My previous post to "DLS" was solely to seek clarification of the statement of fact by "DLS" regarding "a lady" which I noted presumably to be Mrs. Sandra Jo Jack as she is the only "lady" known to be a party to the Shaeffer suspension incident to which the good Doctor's post alluded to. The "fact" that he stated that she "is/has been a Prolific Trouble Maker over the Years" was inconsistent with what I had heard about her. My following narrative was solely to provide him with information as I had observed and/or had heard over the years about both parties involved in the subject incident. Excluding my personal observations and the PSSA action, to which I acknowledged my ignorance and requested clarification from the "Dawg", at no time did I suggest that what I had heard from 3rd party sources to be true/factual. I never said that what "DLS" stated was not factual nor does my post suggest any argument to the contrary. For all I know "DLS" could have been the best man at Mr. Shaeffer's wedding and has held a close personal relationship with him for years. If so I am sure he could easily explain away the alleged behavioral issues represented against Mr. Shaeffer. Similarly "DLS" may have observed Mrs. Jack over the years and knows her to be the proverbial prima donna who typically has been insulting and/or sarcastic to her other squad members. I am uncertain as to why you feel my post is an attempt to sway opinion in this thread. I am not passing any judgment on the "Shaeffer Suspension" but as have I stated , I am solely seeking the basis of fact(s) as stated by DLS. I am certain the good "Doctor" will have no problem clearing up any misperceptions that I may have.

I agree with you 100%. No one should use here say or unsubstantiated 3rd party sources as an attempt to sway opinion or sustain ones argument. I would also contend innuendo and suppositions based on unsubstantiated facts and/or a predetermined bias have no place in a legitimate discussion/debate. Nor do I believe that past actions of any party involved in an alleged incident including the ATA/EC should hold any influence over or relevance to the incident. The case should be judged solely on its merits alone. I have not passed any judgment of any kind regarding the "Shaeffer Suspension" in any posts that I have made in this thread or the other "Shaeffer" thread on this forum. Nor, do I recall ever injecting my personal opinion, possibly with the exception of AA points, as to any parties involved in the subject incident including the ATA/EC. My posts have predominately addressed procedural matters of the ATA/EC or as responses to other posts which I believed to be premised on suppositions and/or a predetermined bias. I have maintained throughout that until all facts and circumstances are known regarding the subject incident no-one can make a fair and reasonable judgment as to the viability of Mr. Shaeffer's suspension.

If you would prefer my personal opinion regarding the incident here it is. Admittedly I have no evidence whatsoever to support said opinion:
I believe for whatever reason, shooting poorly or shell problems, Mr. Shaeffer became frustrated and highly agitated. As a result, he exhibited a continuous pattern of behavior from the first field to the last field which was extremely disruptive and distracting to his other squad members. On more than one occasion Mr. Shaeffer tapped, banged or slammed the barrel of his gun into the rubber station pads in an effort to dislodge a shell stuck in the chamber. At the conclusion of the event, Mrs. Jack, confronted Mr. Shaeffer about his behavior to which Mr. Shaeffer responded in a verbally abusive and overly aggressive manner to Mrs. Jack and two other squad members. This incident at the events conclusion was observed by at least (3) members of the following squad. Mr. Shaeffer's actions were immediately reported to the tournament director who I believe is also the PA ATA delegate which resulted in the PSSA suspension for (2) years and a concurrent complaint with a statement of facts from the (3) complaints and (3) witnesses being filed to the ATA/ED. A subsequent investigation was opened and all notice requirements were provided to Mr. Shaeffer. I do not believe that Mr. Shaeffer ever responded to the notice/complaint. Given his silence as an admission of guilt, the investigator had little choice but to close this investigation with minimal follow-up actions. Also as a result of the (non) response I suspect that the investigating official recommended a (2) year suspension. I believe that the Zone VP's nonconcurrence with said recommendation and his subsequent recommendation of apology letters or a (2) year suspension was premised on the severity of the PSSA suspension already in place and that had Mr. Shaeffer responded in all likelihood the "safety" violations could not have been sustained. The ultimate 3-2 majority recommendation I believe was an attempt by the VP's to mitigate the two other recommendations and is more in line with existing precedent. As to the removal of Mr. Shaeffer's AA points, in my opinion it was merely done because the current culture of the ATA/EC has placed far to much emphasis on AA points and trophies in lieu of addressing the real problems within the organization. I do not believe that Mr. Shaeffer will seek any legal recourse regarding this matter,

I do no find that the ATA/EC has committed any procedural errors pursuant to the subject incident. As I stated I believe that if Mr. Shaeffer had responded to the complaint and provided even minimal supporting documentation to his version of the incident, the "safety violations" would have been dropped. In that case, I believe that an appropriate disposition would have been a (3) month suspension and a letter of reprimand putting Mr. Shaeffer on notice that any future actions of this kind would result in far greater consequences including multiple year and/or life suspension from the ATA. I would not have removed the AA points.

So there ya go User 1. Plenty of innuendo, suppositions and unsubstantiated fact for you cry total BS and label me as just another Kool-Aid kid. Hell Dysinger has already labeled me as clueless. Little does he know that I shoot on a regular basis with certain individuals that ran with Big Leo, Bobby M and Roger Stinebring among others back in the day and have heard more than a few good stories about "BD". The problem is that's all these threads are full off. Anything to perpetuate the anti-ATA narrative. Old facts, old ideas, nothing of substance. For the most part any response by you has been to cherry pick other posters statements for the purpose of distortion to create your childish straw-man arguments. I was under the impression that this forum was one that sought the search for the truth and to provide the real facts. Apparently somebody forgot to tell the moderator(s). I have enjoyed my discussions/debates with Roger. WPT , the "Dawg" and others, but obviously this is not the place for me. It's been fun. Bye. Bye.

 

"I was under the impression that this forum was one that sought the search for the truth and to provide the real facts." This gets old from people so willing to post, "I personally do not know", and "I have also heard" .....

10Guns, Why not include this in your "To the contrary" diatribe ????? "Dave is a great guy to some. Gave me free advice and even walked with me to my vehicle to check my gun." Mike J

Your INSTRUCTIONS in your "To the contrary" diatribe ..... "Keep in mind Mr. Shaeffer isn't just barred from the PA State Shoot, he is barred from (5/6) of the highest attended ATA tournaments annually in the Eastern Zone." ..... Why the need to instruct ????? Unless you are trying to sway opinion .....

IF ..... "this forum was one that sought the search for the truth and to provide the real facts." ..... One should be able to question anything that may be perceived as not "real facts" .....

 

When I subscribed to Trap & Field years ago, I remember a column titled......Things Reliably Heard.

Still around ?

Regards.....Gerald

 

What a load of crap! A "safety" violation should have been fully investigated regardless if Dave didn't respond. The complainants should have fully explained what the safety violation was. Banging a gun on the ground to remove a stuck shell has to be a NEW "safety violation" or an excuse to punish Dave. Of course it's the latter. Remember we do not drink the ATA Kool Aid here.

 

The ATA took over Trap and Field, since then anything published has to be researched and confirmed like when they posted the attendance numbers at the grand one year ... I let my subscription lapse a long time ago after having one for many years ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Heck Mike J ..... plenty of Kool Aid from 10Guns .....

"Mr. Shaeffer responded in a verbally abusive and overly aggressive manner to Mrs. Jack and two other squad members." ..... Is it now there were three people invited to the "parking lot" for a "ass kicking" ?????

To say this, "was premised on the severity of the PSSA suspension already in place" ..... and this, "Nor do I believe that past actions of any party involved in an alleged incident including the ATA/EC should hold any influence over or relevance to the incident." ..... in the same post .....

Who knows why 10Guns would have this "opinion" ..... " I do not believe that Mr. Shaeffer will seek any legal recourse regarding this matter" ..... because 10Guns got his "feelings" hurt and had to say, "It's been fun. Bye. Bye."

 

Trap & Field has been politicalized since the ATA purchased it. I am still waiting for the Picture of myself and Mr. Jones when I shot my 100,000 th doubles target early last year. the picture was taken two times and never published. I ask about it at the Grand last year and was told it would be looked into. (NO ANSWER YET). I ask again at the Autumn grand and was told that the lady thought it was published, and she would check and let me know what month. (NO ANSWER YET). Could it be I let the EC know that I think they are not working to help the shooters in the ATA. No they would not stoop to that level of thinking. What do you think?

 

If you really wanted to know anything about the ATA there used to be a Magazine Published that Dan Bonillas and Ray Stafford and others made comments in

I used to Read it, I dropped the Trap & Field Garbage, That magazine published the ATA Schedule in it and ATA Threatened that Magazine, said they owned the Trap Schedule.

All the while the were advertising for PROMOTION of the ATA

Anyone Remember that?

Gary Bryant......................................Dr.longshot

 

They also posted the scores from the small local clubs when they had a registered shoot. I dropped my subscription when the ATA started their bullshit with the Dr. who owned Trap & Field at the time.

 

When my subscription is due I am going to drop them also. Are there any other mag's that can replace them? Roger C.

 

Doc.

I'm thinking that magazine you are thinking of was called....Shootin Trap ?

Regards....Gerald

 

JUST RECEIVED AN E-MAIL MY SUBSCRIPTION IS UP NOW. BYE BYE T&F. ROGER

 

Dropped my subscription when i got out of trap shooting in 85.
I remember when Dan and some others wanted to start a professional trap shooting association.

 

Gerald that does not ring a bell to me. I may be wrong

GB........................DLS

 

DLS.............are you thinking of "Shotgun Sports" ??????

 

Mr. Bob Thurston started Shotgun Sports, in either the late 70'r or early 80's. I set up shoots for them back east to help enlarge their circulation.. They supplied some very impressive carved duck trophies for these shoots. Roger C.

 

If you saw what happened you would be okay with what happened in the end. There were no stuck shells or anything. He was out of line the entire round. Hopefully he learned to control himself a little.

 

Yes that was the Magazine, is it still in Production?

GB......................DLS

 

Trap & Field would never print anything that even suggested better Trapshooting or ATA Changes, nothing to help the sport.


GB........................................DLS

 

10 Guns: Have you read all the ATA Complaints, she is listed in them several times on different Instances.

GB..................................DLS

 

#17-03 – Against Mr. David Shaeffer, Jr (#90-01762) as filed by Mr. Skip Klinger (#44-24775) – 169 Mr. Klinger alleges that Mr. Shaeffer violated Section XII, B., 1., a.; Section XII, B., 2., b. and 170 Section XII ,B., 2., c. of the Official ATA Rules on June 18, 2017 while competing at the 171 Pennsylvania State Trapshooting Championships (PA State Shotgunning Association, Elysburg, 172 PA). All allegations are of unsportsmanlike and unsafe behavior. Since the complaint was filed 173 by the state Delegate, investigation by same would represent a conflict of interest. Therefore, 174 the investigation was assigned to the Alternate by certified mail on June 20, 2017. The 175 investigation was complete on July 11 and the results and recommendation were forwarded to 176 the Vice President. The Vice President recommended a letter of apology be issued by Shaeffer 177 to each of the complainants within 30 days of receipt of the notification to him of the decision 178 or face a two (2) year suspension. The recommendation was not met with majority support by 179 the remainder of the Executive Committee. In accordance with ATA rules and by-laws, the 180 President made recommendation to the Executive Committee that Mr. Shaeffer be suspended 181 for one full year from date of notification, with the stipulation that an additional year will be 182 added to the suspension if letters of apology are not sent to the complainants with copies to 183 the ATA Executive Director within 30 days of date of notification. This recommendation 184 received majority support. (Secretarial Note: Shaeffer was notified via certified letter on 185 August 13 of the decision and copies of apology letters were received in Sparta on September 186 13. Mr. Shaeffer was notified by certified letter on September 20 that the one-year suspension 187 will expire on August 12, 2018.)

 

Is there an exact area of reference as to where I can read these, and maybe a reference to these several instances in particular in all of the ATA complaints, so I don't have to look through them all? You can PM if you want. Thanks.

 

Gee I missed this post. Rumble in PA. I wonder if Shaeffer was bragging that he could endure a tag team match.

 

Does anyone know what "Official ATA Rule" applies to each of the "alleged violations" ?????

"alleges that Mr. Shaeffer violated Section XII, B., 1., a." ......

"page 39" ..... "Section XII, B., 1., a." ..... "a. if in the opinion of Management or the Executive Committee the shooter disrupts the harmony of the shoot, or" ..... Was this the alleged "banging the barrel on the concrete/rubber pad" ????? Then should the "rule book" be amended to say "any squad", or "any shooter", not the "shoot" that infers "everyone" in attendance ?????

"alleges that Mr. Shaeffer violated" ..... "Section XII, B., 2., b. and 170 Section XII ,B., 2., c."

"page 40" ..... "Section XII, B., 2., b." ..."b. who handles a gun dangerously on or off the firing line, or" ....."page 40" ..... "Section XII ,B., 2., c." ......"c. who deliberately or carelessly violates gun safety precautions, Official Rules regarding safety, or in any manner endangers contestants, spectators, or gun club personnel" ..... Was this for the alleged "threat" ????? ..... If so, why the need for "Section XII, B., 2., b." ?????

The "unsafe behavior" doesn't make sense for "banging a barrel to eject a stuck hull" ..... So, was it the alleged "threat" that caused the "ATA" to, "allege that Mr. Shaeffer violated" ..... "Section XII, B., 2., b. and 170 Section XII ,B., 2., c." ..... if so, what action made "Section XII, B., 2., b." apply ?????

That seems to suggest a "350-ish pound angry man", may feel the need to "threaten" a "100-ish pound woman", with a "gun" ..... as "Section XII, B., 2., b." would imply ..... if that may be how the "punishments" were applied to the alleged "violations".

 

TARGET YEAR 2016 ATA OFFICIAL COMPLAINTS 170 #16-01 Against Mr. Eric M. Flexer (#12-159290) as filed by Mr. Skip Klinger (#44-24775)

1 Klinger alleges that Mr. Flexer verbally abused at least one score keeper and the line supervisor 172 at the Pennsylvania State Sportsmen’s Association ATA registered competition on September 173 13, 2015 in violation of Section XII,B.,1., of the Official ATA Rules. The behavior is alleged to 174 have taken place over three separate sub-events and did not appear to be merely an 175 undirected slip of the tongue. Witness testimony indicated that there was no question as to 176 the type of language that was used. President Morris (Eastern Zone) recommended that Mr. 177 Flexer be suspended for a period of two years from the date of notification. The Executive 7 178 committee was in unanimous agreement. Mr. Flexer was notified via registered letter on 179 October 23, 2015.

 

Yes, They are still around. Nice magazine in my opinion.