Harlan's grasp safe with Dave Shaeffer's suspension

I read this this post and thought how funny those words - hanky lanky. And I re-read the next part -->

And now I believe there might be something there, there.

I believe now there is more to this than someone being a bully.

 

And yet neither parties want to give up a copy of the complaint?

 

I cant find definition of "hanky lanky".

 

I believe I read this began with one shooter confronting another shooter on the line? If there is an issue of any sort the correct process for reporting and correcting is what?? Was there a scorekeeper? A referee? A safety officer? Just asking, I am sure there is some sort of professional protocol for the situation.... Larry

 

Anyone ever think that it may be possible there are other investigations and charges outside of the organization as to where they are not allowed to publish their detailed information, like a criminal offense.

 

Additionally:
Personally I see no reason why the organization itself has to publish details of their rulings anyway. If it is just because of the status of the individual involved, and the need to know mentality created by social media, I feel it is even less important. Rules and laws are broken all the time, and people are punished for them. All individuals whether they are noteworthy or not should be treated the same, and with each instance being a singular incident. Of course, past actions are taken into consideration when the punishment is handed down in some instances. There is reason for that.

Another reason why the instantaneous information of social media whether true or false, will be the demise of worldly societies.

 

The EC felt that way when they hid the Pull 2012 crap.

 

The "ATA" has a situational governance doctrine, that relies more on the who, than the what.

IF ..... you are just a squad filler to boost the "All American Points" for attendance, and you are looking for someone to "complain" to, good luck .....

IF ..... the "safety issue" is bad enough, walk off the squad and finish on the practice traps .....

IF ..... the "threat" is credible enough, call the police .....

IF ..... the "harmony" is bothersome enough, go finish on the practice traps .....

The "ATA" has told the squad fillers, "if you don't like it stay home", long enough that it worked ..... so, if anything close to this would happen to a squad filler, you are on your own ..... there is NOT "some sort of professional protocol for the situation" .....

 

Was the original "breach" then precipitated when the other shooter approached the now suspended person and "said something"?
The ATA and its rule book are fine but at registered shoots I have attended (not many) and even in the local club events its the responsibility of the club to insure all safety procedures are observed and followed. It seems strange the perceived violations had to be addressed only after the fact....... where were the individuals appointed by the hosting club when all this took place?
At a state shoot a couple years ago I used the barrel of an empty, open gun to move a coil of speaker cord from the shooting lane.... Barrel was always pointed down at the ground and down range but I was contacted by a range officer immediately and advised that what I did was not good practice. I suspect the hosting club at the shoot in question was perhaps not "on the ball".... Does not excuse a breach of safety if there was one but it is something the club might need to address........ Larry

 

Do you know of any?

 

The "ATA" wants to place everything on the "host club", up to the point of who it involves .....

You can do a little research and find, not long ago there was a "high profile" shooter unhappy with the target setting, it was alleged that "Rob Taylor" stepped in and threatened to "shut down" the shoot, unless they "reset" the targets to this person's liking ..... A squad filler would be lucky if they "reset" the targets on a single trap .....

Here is one link, you can find more ..... http://www.americantrapshooter.com/...er-mcnamer-our-ohio-delegate.1370/#post-13786

IF ..... people find value in being a "ATA member", and participating in a non-competitive manner at the same shoot as the "ATA's" Idols, good for them ..... Just never have the expectation of being treated "equal" .....

 

I suspect its probably a good thing folks like you describe, "idol's and Taylor's" do not show up in our wilderness part of the world..... shoots I have attended live by the rules and common sense safety. We do have folks show up that receive the respect and consideration they have earned by shooting..... The link you directed me to was quite interesting..... equality and consideration are based on the person, not on the score........ Larry

 

When the leaders of the members are punishing the members I would say the members should know.

 

With Shaeffer out of the picture Kolar shooters got to move up in the rankings.

 

Where is that written?

 

Section XII, C:4

 

grappy, Common sense. when someone is removed from a line up, everyone behind them moves up. I tried to type this slow so I would not loose you. The connection to Kolar is starting to clear up, time will sort this out. Roger C.

 

I hear attorneys have been contacted. Let the battle begin.

 

Please explain how factual information will ruin any society.

 

Liberal B.S. talk. You can not explain facts to a liberal. Roger C.

 

Shouldn't this thread be that Kolar shooters move up with the Shaeffer suspension?

 

Anyone want to bet this suspension will only be for 6 months. Shaeffer will be shooting in the spring. Same thing / terms for the club with unsubstantiated scores that produced a GAH 18 yard champ. Put it in perspective. The club's scores without paperwork affected the whole trapshooting community. This is only a pimple on pig's ass.

I say 6 months max. jmho

 

He might be shooting at ATA shoots but I doubt he will shoot at the PA State shoot for a while.

 

Grappy, Why? Roger C.

 

Because he's been banned from the grounds for two years.

 

What if he writes one of those "I am sorry" letters?

 

Do you think that will make much difference in his life? PA. is not the only shoot in the world. Roger C.

 

Just a thought - - ->>>

About this guy Shaeffer. This guy had the long run. Not Campbell. NOT ANY OF THE KOLAR BOYS! (or gals). I don't have the facts but I have some background. Here is my view.......

* I hear the guy could be a jerk - - so could a few other great shooters.

* This guy might have caught Campbell had he been allowed to shoot the grand and the Cardinal. How would that have looked?

* Would the ATA ask Campbell to be their golden boy if Shaeffer was the big shooter?

* No other Kolar shooters were in front of Shaeffer until a Lady mentioned on the Kolar site filed a complaint. Bad optics? Maybe.

* So Shaeffer is out for a while. So how does that look? Will Campbell or Ricky be a rung higher next year.

* The ATA hasn't published the minutes for the suspension yet. This in a year when an EC member supposedly promised transparency. Yeah right..........who cant see thru that?

Like mama used to say. If it quacks like duck.

 

Do we need guys n gals on separate squads? This could keep guys from offending gals when they are competing and not acting like gentlemen.

 

Has anyone ask what the connection is between Sandy and Kolar? It may have some bearing on this issue. Roger C.

 

Connection?

 

I thought she worked for Kolar, she is listed on their website anyhow.

 

MartinR
Since the ATA only takes the top 7 shoots for AA points, Shaeffer dropped to at least 5th before his points were completely deleted due to his suspension. Shooters like Campbell or Hawley or Lamont were not in jeopardy of being "caught." Shaeffer shot a lot of smaller AA qualifying shoots like Middletown to earn a lot of the points that he had.

 

Shaeffer *did* shoot the Grand. It was already calculated that Dave could have won every single event at the Cardinal and not had enough points to move up to the top spot. Quit it with the ATA conspiracy theories.

 

SUJumanji,

Shaeffer was in 2nd when he was suspended. That was before the Cardinal Classic. Only Campbell would have finished in front of him.

 

Ahhh there it is. The give me a cup of Kool Aid guy. Like the Pull 2012 crap. The ATA is great. Allah good bullshit. This goes right up there with the "I never had sexual relations with that woman." " I am not a crook!" "Trump will never accept the vote results."

Thanks for the laugh SUJumanji!

 

monroesc -

Defending Campbell rather strongly? You are pals with him? At your club? Does he give lessons there? Did Shaeffer ever give lessons there? Campbell doesn't need defending. Enough of the Campbell love fest. He isn't my fave but neither is Shaeffer.

 

So long as the rules are followed to the letter the names can always be changed, favorite or not should not matter when it comes to enforcement of any and all rules ...
The last time I looked at them the rules were supposed to apply to everyone, not just anyone ... If the ATA does not follow the rules as posted to the letter then there is a Major problem because selective enforcement could rear its ugly head and create even worse problems once and if it all gets sorted out ... When I was in a position to speak for the members I always felt it was on behalf of and in the best interest of all not just the chosen few ... Sooner or later both sides of the story will reveal who is right, who is wrong and let the pieces fall where they may ...
Those acting on behalf of the members ( membership) should be held to a higher standard so the highest degree of Integrity (which seems to be lacking in some areas) is obvious to the membership as well as the members involved ... If you have nothing to hide, hide nothing ... Stand up for whats right , even if you stand alone ...
WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Incredible post - I hope you are trolling.

What if it was you that was being wrongfully attacked? They hid Pull 2012. How did that make you feel? The more that is kept secret the better? This org is doomed.

 

Does all this Shaeffer stuff mean the Shaeffer shooting camps and lessons scheduled at the home grounds in PA are cancelled?

 

People that shoot Brownings don't complain about anyone. And no one ever bitched about a guy shooting a Browning. Just saying.

 

Name a professional sport that would boot one of the top 3 athletes and not give much of an explanation to the fan base or members.

 

THE ATA /////////////////////////// Roger C.

 

Mods.....this needs to be called "Hanky Lanky" thread. jmho

 

I met Harlan Campbell many years ago at a shoot in Las Vegas at Steve's old place on a cold, windy, and blustery day ... Keith and his wife had their Motor home there and a bunch of us gathered around it because she was a great cook besides being a super nice person to put up with all of us ... We were all sitting and eating some chili she made and Harlan was there as we all talked about shooting and who knows what ... Keith was saying that Harlan is going to be one of the Top Guns in the future (don't think he was yet) so do not be surprised when the day comes and you see him on top of the heap ... No crystal balls, decks of magic cards, or anything just a bunch of guys talking ... Harlan was actually very pleasant and in no way was he bragging about what his intentions were but Keith said many times over that Harlan will be one of the All Americans in the future and everyone will know his name ... Obviously, that happened and he has been one of the Top Guns for a considerable length of time just like Keith said he would be ... ( I did not use Keith's last name on purpose because I have not been in contact with him since his wife died and I don't think it would be appropriate without his permission ) ... Harlan as I recall was very humble and said he will do the best he can to make all of what Keith said happen, it seems to like it has ... When and if you are a Top Gun some people will love you and others will hate you, goes with the territory so just do your best and carry on ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Bill, I shot lead for Harlan many years ago at the Grand in Vandalia. He is not only a great shooter, but he fits right in the champion slot. We were shooting handicap at Casa Grande, there were fifty straight purses. We shot 200 handicap targets, Harlan ran the first 75 on both hundreds. When we finished, I said to Harlan, you made some pretty good bucks here today as all three purses were in the four figures. He said Roger I did not play those fifties. It would not be right for me to come in for one shoot and take that money. The locals put it all in there it is theirs to win not mine.
I told him at that time, Harlan I have known many winners in this game, buy you rank as a champion, very few would have that much respect for local shooters. He is one of the true gentlemen in this sport. Roger Coveleskie

 

Hello fellow trapshooters:


This is my first post here. I do not know any of the participants in the incident to the best of my knowledge. I was not a witness to the incident. I do not know any of the partcipants in this thread to the best of my knowledge. I do have considerable experience in other "justice" systems. This thread motivated me to sign up.


Let me say first: I agree with those who expressed the opinion that the thread title was not well choosen. It may have resulted in more views however. Enough about that.


I do believe in transparency in any kind of governing. When transparency is not present; some amount of suspicion will become attached as a result of the lack of transparency.


The incident seems to be one with less than a smoking gun. I will not speculate about the motivation of the parties. The knowledge of someone's state of mind about their intent and any bias would need to be present.


It does strike me that the arbitrators in the dispute have a conflict of interest since sponsorship is an issue. The process by which they could recuse themselves and be replaced in some fashion is not provided for to the best of my knowledge.


I do not think it proper for the subject of the complaint to be judged on the basis of some past conduct. Only the conduct alledged to have occured in the complaint should be taken into account; unless there are prior written complaints sustained involving similar conduct.


I am not certain how the removal of a spent hull from a single barrel could rise to the level of being unsafe. Maybe there is an unsafe way to remove one. I just am unable to imagine one.


When one looks at an altercation between two or more parties; one has to consider which party was the hunter and which party was the hunted. Sometimes the roles reverse when the animus continues. Sometimes the roles remain the same.


Tough for me to reach any conclusion here at this time. Maybe a four voting member EC with one abstaining could have resolved this one better. Three to two is a pretty fine line.


Too bad there is no way for witnesses to be examined by both sides. Live from the stand is always better than a written record for the determination of credibility of the parties.


Justice can be a very elusive quarry.

 

Roger, BS. That is not my opinion of him. As I take it the thread is not at all about him anyway. I do not see where the poster made any ref bad about him or good about him. Only that his grasp on 1st is safe. It is safer for next year should be the title.

How many memberships were revoked over the Pull 2012? None that I read.

 

7.5 shot,
The origional post implied that Harlan may have had something to do with the out come of the fiasco. I took it as a slur on his reputation. Roger C.

 

Who would want that information right? We know those that get to the top get there because they all wear white hats.

 

Where Roger? Please quote that.

You cant. It isn't there. With respect of course.

 

7.5shot, Read the first line of the post. The one in bold letters. It was not meant to disparage Harlan, but to many folks that comprehend the written language it implies that Harlan will prosper from the actions of the EC. Roger C.

 

Some one is going to benefit by Mr. Shaeffer being disqualified that's for sure, the only answer would be who ..? I don't follow or pay much attention to All American points anymore because there are so many of them ... If there were any games played to knock someone out of the running the ATA could be putting them self in jeopardy as they have a few times in the past ... The way things are going in Sparta, the last thing they need is bad publicity to hurt the attendance even more ... If there is anyone who feels the ATA is above making mistakes they are badly mistaken ... Time will tell all and then we will all know .... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

He wont have to worry will he? At least not now. That must be the point right? Glad you had the time to re read it.

 

7.5 shot, There is a big difference from benefiting from something by accident, than being a part of the program that hurts someone else chances. David was not that close to Harlan in the point count. It did enhance some other shooters chances of being in the top few shooters that have not been mentioned. Roger C.

 

Sure he was....after the PA shoot. He wont have to worry this year. Or will he?

 

How much time will Shaeffer really get?

 

I think most attorneys intending to get monies from a suit would tell their client to sit back and see what the damages are starting to look like. You could sue for imagined damages but showing something on the books is better. jmho

 

My perception as things bad for trapshooting career

1 Cussing at a gal on the trap line that shoots for Kolar.

2 Doinking your way over priced barrel on the concrete to remove the cheap ass shells you bought.

3 Outshooting all Kolar shooters.

4 Not saying you are sorry.

5 Not having a decent attorney.

 

Defamation of character and loss of anticipated income can pay big time, if enough gets said it could end up being slander also ... I am sure at sometime in the not so distant future we will all know unless there is a GAG order granted as part of the settlement, if there is one ... Save the "Sorry " for later, maybe he wasn't sorry, so why say it if you don't mean it ..? I told my Ex Wife I was "Sorry" I married her, boy do I wish I wound not of said that at that given moment, and I truly was ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Prediction: the upcoming minutes will be very vague when it comes to describing the Shaeffer / Kolar girl ordeal. I am sure the local attorney / maybe Ferris, (just guessing) will read / re-read what they publish. We will hear what they want us to know provided they don't paint themselves toooo far into a corner.

We all know how the Pull2012 was missed in the minutes. We also know those minutes have not been corrected. They wont be.

 

Around 20,000 views now. This is post 262. The most ridiculous thread came from you. Guessing you are from that other old worn out place that would not let anyone discuss this.

Good to have an open forum.

 

According to the ATA minutes the vote to follow the Vice President's recommendation was voted down. Dave Shaeffer gave this information in the previous interview. This is highly unusual. There was a split vote to not follow the punishment recommended by the VP.

So.......who had the pull and wanted a stiffer punishment?

The Vice President recommended a letter of apology be issued by Shaeffer
to each of the complainants within 30 days of receipt of the notification to him of the decision
or face a two (2) year suspension. The recommendation was not met with majority support by
the remainder of the Executive Committee.

Is this on the up and up? When was the last time the VP was overruled?

I report. You decide.

Merlo out.

 

This is sounding more like a set up the more info that comes out. How many people followed David into the parking lot? Who made the initial contact in the parking lot? What transpired in the parking lot? Were there any witnesses other than the complainants in the parking lot? I do not know David, but I am familiar with the actions of the EC and their good ole boy club, so who do we believe? Inquiring minds would like to know. Roger C.

 

Strange that the minutes hide the names of those that filed the original complaint. Other complaints are not treated that way. hmmmm

 

I see Skip mentioned. I had the privilege of meeting him that weekend of the PA State Shoot. PA was very hospitable. Mark made sure I had a cart to get around and take pictures. Skip must be a good poker player as his face didn't show any stress that week.

 

Has that ever happened before?

 

Hmmm, I see that David did send in a letter of apology. Guess there will be no lawsuit. I think 1 year suspension was too harsh though. An apology should have sufficed. I heard through the grapevine that the woman said something to Dave and got the reaction he gave her. Too bad a great shooter will not be competing this year.

 

Yeah...
Harlan wont be looking over his shoulder and the Kolar shooters will have a shot at the number 2 spot.

 

Not sure the letter of apology will have much bearing on the ability to seek redress of grievance. The way the suspension was worded placed the respondent under duress to comply with the letter caveat. The ATA EC may have been wiser to follow the recommendation of the VP having jurisdiction.

The failure of the investigation to speak to the fifth man on the squad demonstrates a pre-conceived result of the investigation. The perceived failure of the investigation to look at any relationship between the witnesses in agreement does the same.

Assignment of the investigation to a subordinate of the delegate of the same state? That flies in the face of any notion of impartiality.

 

Worded as to mean there is an additional suspension. Not a suspension that is lessened.

Sounds something like extortion in my opinion.

Extortion is a crime in which one person forces another person to do something against his will, generally to give up money or other property, by threat of violence, property damage, damage to the person’s reputation, or extreme financial hardship.

 

There was the letter or not option which had a bearing on the length of suspension. Write the letter and the punishment/suspension will be for one year. Do not write the letter and get the suspension multiplied by a shoot factor of two. So yes: the man really had no viable alternative. Duress is like extortion as one is forced to do some act he/she/they would otherwise not have done freely and voluntarily.

 

If this is really about safety, and it could be, then someone please tell me why the ATA has not made it public what safety issues were involved. The ATA wants a more safe environment right? We should all learn from this fellow's unsafe actions?

We had minutes published by Merlo and no mention of what the safety issue was. The letter published by Merlo did not spell out the issue. One can only guess it is a secret safety issue.

 

How much duress was on any of those that covered up the Pull2012 crap?

 

Might have been some stress but not duress. Anybody file an ATA complaint or was there just the Illinois AG investigation?

 

I think that by spring these guys may be paying Shaeffer to shoot. And also....why no follow up by Merlo?

 

I have called Dave several times. No answer so far.

 

Par4

Are you a counsel for Mr. Shaeffer?

 

The removal of points earned puzzles me. A shooter pays club "A" for the chance to earn these points that have value. The person invests a lot of money to earn those points. The shooter then travels to clubs "A" "B" and so on. And then on a later date the points the shooter paid to earn are later removed.

Are the points temporary?

When do they become permanent?

 

Are points just for the award of making the All American teams, or do they somehow carry a monetary with them ?

I really never understood why anyone would pay all that money for a patch.

 

So, if you accomplish something and get the AA points (like skeetercat says) they can take away the points like you never accomplished that along the way (that has a funny smell to it ) ... I cannot imagine there is or ever was a provision to undo something someone has already done or accomplished (this would really have a foul odor to it ) ... I would love to hear of that ever happening to one of the ATA's suck ups and how that was handled, if it was handled or just ignored ... I do not and never have felt that selective enforcement was justified in any way, based on what has been said that is what this seems like to me ... The rules cannot and should not be changed ,altered, or modified because someone says something to another person be it a man or woman ...Profanity be damned, I have little if any doubt we have never heard just about ever word that could of possibly been said ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

For the sake of safety......and to all Executive Committee and BOD members

Who knows or has any idea what the proper procedure should be for a stuck shell that has been discharged and is stuck in the chamber? Any ideas out there? Anyone please post their thoughts.

 

Steel based hulls hang up in both my Seitz and Alfermann. I always carry a wad knocker. It works for me.

 

Is that acceptable? At what end do you put the "wad knocker" in the barrel. Does everyone have to unload and reload for you to do that?

 

There are many clubs that do or at least used to have 1/2 or 3/8 dowel rods about 40 inches long ... You insert in the barrel and push, others you tap the barrel on the concrete or use a wad knocker ... I have seen a few people blow (yes really) on the front of the barrel and try to blow the shell out of the barrel ... So far as there being a really consistent method that is or ever has been stated, I do not know what it is or if there ever was one ... I suppose if you slam the gun on the ground a few times it might or might not help but is sure to piss off a few others on the squad unless they are the one doing it, then it would be an acceptable practice ... If you would carry a .022 (shorts) pistol you could shoot the stuck shell out of the barrel, but you want to talk about piss more than a few people off that should do it ... There are probably more ways, but this is a few that could be tried until you can get more creative ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

How many Gun Clubs lost a customer for a year, or possibly more, by the "ATA's" action ?????

Were the "points" the only thing taken ??? What about Trophies, added money with any Trophies, option money ?????

Did the "ATA" return any of their collected "fees" to the shooter stripped of "points" ?????

Should the "ATA" have that much control on who shoots where ...... when there only seems to be a single Club involved, and the removal of "points" seems to be the "goal" ?????

Should the Clubs give that much power to the "ATA", when Trapshooting is trying hard to gain customers, not drive them away ?????

The old "fantastic direction" was "if you don't like it stay home" ..... Is the new "fantastic direction", if we don't like YOU, we will make YOU stay home ?????

 

When customers get angry with businesses they do not go to their stores. Why not just fail to show up at one of the ATA signature shoots. Like the Grand. Let them know that business as usual sucks, you will no longer support their poor leadership. Get on the asses that represent your state, BUT DO NOT MAKE THE MISTAKE THAT THEY REPRESENT THE SHOOTERS OF THE STATE. THEY DO NOT. they are a conduit of the ATA to tell you what the ATA wants you to know, not what you as a member want. The organization is in free fall because of this attitude, it is about time for a clean sweep of the EC, or a totally new organization.
Get rid of the pull 2012 people and the rest of the bottom feeders, that is the only solution.
Make a clean sweep in the new year, we need a Trump applicant///////////////////////// Roger C.

 

Par4 has left the building.

 

IM not going to read every single comment but the original post is wrong. Dave did threaten her after the completion of the round. I was a witness and my statement said so accordingly. He was completely out of line with his behavior from the first trap to the last trap. I shot on the squad directly behind him.

 

Define "threatened ", Please for us who were not there ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Hunting Fool
I am not doubting you. More info please.

After the completion of the round? Where was that? In a lot? Afterwards time wise please.

 

Was there a police report?

 

I don’t see why so many people not involved need to know.

I will say this it was disappointing to have the ATA release the names of the people that wrote letters regarding the incident. I was approached after the winning my handicap shootoff by someone to write an account of what happened. I have no problem telling what really happened. The accused doesn’t need to know who is reporting the facts. Would the police name a witness or informant? No.

That being said my account of the incident and threatening is as follows:

Sandy said something to David on his continual disruption of the squad after the round was complete. Swearing after missing targets, lots of body movements. Keep in mind that on three different occasions David slammed the barrel of his shotgun down twice on a rubber pad and once on the concrete, so hard that you could see the barrel impression of a circle in the concrete.

At the end of the conversation David said to Sandy “Give me 10 minutes and we can settle this in the parking lot.” that might not be the exact words as it’s been 6 plus months ago. Your talking about a 350ish pound man speaking to a female who is maybe 100 lbs.

Sandy was upset because this behavior went on and she was physically shaking. My personal interpretation of that is “I’ll kick your a$$ in the parking lot in 10 minutes.”

I have nothing against David as he is quite the shot, I actually was looking forward to watching him shoot handicap as he is one of the country’s best shooters all around and in handicap specifically.

To act the way he did and say what he did is not what the sport is about. The respect I had for his ability is lost and won’t ever be regained. Quite honestly he’s trapshootings biggest waste of talent. If he could control himself and be honest he could make a real good positive name for himself and possibly make money like other top shooters have done with teaching and enforcements.

Without putting words in anyone else’s mouth I think lots of people wanted anyone but him to win the Kolar shootoff at the grand. He’s a classless individual.

It’s to my understanding this is not the first time he acted out while shooting bad, I was told one time he threw his Silver Seitz by the barrel out into the target field.

I think I said enough and I’m sure people will both agree and disagree on my opinion. I also spoke with a friend of David’s who read each of the 5-6 written statements and he said ALL of them basically said the same thing. I never met any of the people that provided statements before that day. It’s impossible for that many statements to all say very similar things and the information not be correct. So please don’t try and defend or feel bad for him.

I’m not going to post further on this as it’s over. Whether it’s a 1 or 2 year suspension I think it’s not enough.

 

Interesting you put that in with your eyewitness account. Is that illegal?

 

You have too much time on your hands sir, that wasn’t in there.

 

Hunting fool, If the above quotes were included in your letter to the ATA. They would add to much bias to the info for it to be considered as a unbiased opinion of the incident. Past offences should not have any effect on the descriptions of this conflict. This is our sport and many members would want to know the circumstance that may lead to being removed from the ranks. It could very well save another member from being in this same predicament. Roger C.

 

Let me see if I get this ..... Grown men did nothing about a "350ish pound man" making what they perceived as a credible threat, to "kick the a$$ of a 100 pound woman in the parking lot" .....

Piss on giving a written "complaint" to the "ATA" ..... take care of the credible "threat" ..... the story is pure BULLSHIT, or there is not much good to say about those who did nothing to protect the "100 pound female" from a credible "threat".

 

It is in the account of which you just described to us. You included the description of him throwing his gun. Maybe it occurred at a different time but it is your quote. And I am not questioning your honesty.

 

So, ( To quote Huntin Fool )
"At the end of the conversation David said to Sandy “Give me 10 minutes and we can settle this in the parking lot.” that might not be the exact words as it’s been 6 plus months ago. Your talking about a 350ish pound man speaking to a female who is maybe 100 lbs. "

"Sandy was upset because this behavior went on and she was physically shaking. My personal interpretation of that is “I’ll kick your a$$ in the parking lot in 10 minutes.”" (Maybe he mean't KISS and Make up ..?)

I’m not going to post further on this as it’s over. Whether it’s a 1 or 2 year suspension I think it’s not enough.[/QUOTE] ( again your interpretation) ...

"Your personal interpretation" (?) just might not of been what he said or mean't when (if ) he even said that ..? You did not say that this lady was 100 and all mouth, just that a 350ish pound man verbally attacked her and threatened her with physical abuse to the point she was shaking .? (your interpretation) ..? I just happen to be a 6'5" 275 pound man and on a few occasions I have told a "Lady" to go _ uck herself because no body else would, but there was not and never was there an intention of me kicking or kissing her ass for that matter ... There is obviously more than one side to this story (sounds like many actually) and some place in the mix is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth ... I am not, but if I was a Lawyer I would rip your comments and testimony a new a _ _ hole in court under oath ... The statement's you made make it appear you have an erection for David that goes beyond wanting to watch him shoot ... It will be interesting to read about it when the real story comes out, I'm not buying that one ... Nuff said .... WPT ... (YAC) ...


Merry Christmas and Happy New Year