How many in the GAH this year?

Your predictions for the GAH this year?

 

If the weather is good. The numbers will be up! I can't wait to go. Leaving this Friday. Been to Sparta since it was opened.

 

I will be leaving on the 31st. I think this will be my last grand. Just getting to old to make the trip and the body just will not respond to the physical stress any more. I am very happy to have been a part of the sport in it's hay day, would not change anything that happened along the way. Enjoyed every time I entered competition. Roger C.

 

Got to the WSRC today and it looks good. Lot of campers & kids everywhere! AIM numbers must be up!

 

Just got to the WSRC.
Cardinal Road is repaired.
Electricity is on.
Grass is mowed.
Plenty of porta toilets on East end.
Campgrounds filling up.
Trolleys are out.
Should be a great day for the AIM Handicap and Doubles events!

 

The ATA web site says the camping is 75 % full, so based on the numbers used last year that means there are going to be at least 7,500 shooters staying on site in the 1,000 camping spots, if they get another 7,500 rather than the 15,000 each on site and 15,000 in the general area they are going to have one hell of a turn out ... They will surely be able to produce more than 1745 shooters in the grand American Championship event like they had last year, but imagine the spectators with 15,ooo at the WSRC that given day ... I hope someone takes pictures and posts them even if its like " I told you so" when no one actually believed all that BS ... I'm getting all excited now, can hardly wait ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Looking nicer than Vandalia, huh? Probably have more shooters also.

 

WPT why don't you just stay at home. I am sure a lot of people would be happier.

 

I don't think WPT has been to the WSRC. He just wants to Sparta bash!! The grands not in Ohio and the ATA took it away from him. Get over it WPT!

 

1745
If you 4 cheerleaders above shoot maybe there will be 1749.
And again, thanks for posting, it gets the count up

I didn't leave the ata, the ata left me

And none of you four loved it more than I did. When you spend every cent you make or made while you were working on shooting registered targets get back to me.
I'll drive 4 hours to shoot pigeons and probably spend more money, but there is no way I'm driving 10 hours to that place in IL.
We, at least 30-40 members from my club alone,couldn't wait until August and the Grand. Multiply that by all the clubs that are in SW Pa.

Now? I don't know one that goes. Two or three made the trip the first year maybe two but that was it.
Location boys! The ata took what they thought was a great deal. Turned out to be a bust.
Live with it!

 

If it really matters I was in Sparta before it was ever considered for a spot to relocate to, nice little town but not a place I would consider for what used to be the biggest trap shooting events of the year ... I have not been to the WSRC if by chance I ever did go it would not be to shoot, so why even bother ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I don't see how anybody could criticize the facility if you have never been there or ever attended a Grand there.
Kinda like criticizing a movie that you never went to see. I have been to Vandalia Grand 5 times & also to Sparta.
They are different for sure but I see it as the Grand, That's what it is! Enjoy life while you can. Colonel

 

The proof is in the pudding, check out the attendance records since the move to Sparta, Ill ... Sparta in and of itself is a nice little rural town in the middle of no place that does not have a really big tourist attraction other than a facility that can't draw a crowd (see attendance) ... The Facility is the absolute best there is possible in a anti gun state that cannot draw 2,000 shooters in the grand American Handicap Championship event and the numbers ($) that it generates cannot cover its own costs let alone generate 20 to 30 million for the region and or local area no matter what you are told or believe ... They did not have 15,000 campers in the 1000 camping spots last year, nor did they have another 15,000 hanging loose in the general area in and around Sparta, Ill waiting to get in ... If you want to listen to and believe the BS that comes out of Sparta via the ATA, ED, EC and many of the BOD, and one of the local TV stations that is your choice but please do not piss on my leg and tell me it raining ... That is not bashing, its stating the facts and those cannot be changed , altered, or modified to make the facility something it is not no matter how nice it is ... If the total numbers are not enough proof for you I honestly do not know what to tell you ... I was contacted by one of the now deceased shooters that if I would show up he was going to cover my fees and buy dinner, I told him if I was to come there it would only be to visit with a few friends but I wouldn't even bring a gun with other than the one I carry all the time ... Those are the facts as they really and truly are, like it or not ... Sparta is not a movie and nobody is criticizing it, it is not the best place or even close to the best place to host what was once the biggest trapshooting tournament known to man ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

What gets me in all the back and forth about "Sparta vs Vandalia", is the COMPLETE void of how "flawed" the "Grand", as a SHOOT, has become .....

I have shot both places, and the BIGGEST "difference" to me is my lack of desire to play ANY option money. Shooting a bunch of money down a shotgun barrel for a plastic duck and some "points", is not the most intelligent way to spend my lunch money.

And one other "obvious" difference is, "Sparta" is so large you have to make "appointments" to see "friends".

To me, the "Grand" is so screwed up as a "shoot", I wouldn't go if "Vandalia" would reappear out the dust and the "Grand" would return to that location .....

FWIW ..... I would like the "pro-Sparta" people to start posting about the big money, silver and gold, Championship Rings, and all those things they win after traveling to BFE and SHOOTING the "Grand" .....

 

ok, so where would be the best place currently available to hold the Grand? Cardinal don't want it & why should they.
They have a very nice shoot that starts right after the Grand, the Cardinal Classic. Would be foolish to sacrifice one for the other. I know #'s are down at the Grand, no argument there. However, trap #'s are dropping in many places.
Around here Sporting Clays is the big draw. I like it all but cut my teeth on trap. I even built/ operated a trap field years ago. I just think the us against them mentality is no good for the sport. As I said before, life is too short.
Not trying to start some kind of tussle just think some of this is foolish & gets us nowhere. JMO Colonel

 

As it is now, nowhere ..... the "Grand" could be held on the dark side of the moon and shot under lights .....

I have said many times ..... you let a "Trapshooter" win a couple of thousand dollars, "they" will spend ten thousand more trying to do it again ..... Even the "Casinos" are smart enough to figure that out .....

You offer ten bucks payback for a twenty dollar option, then add shells and entry fee ..... "Trapshooters" are not very smart, but just smart enough to tell the "ATA" to go piss up a stump ..... the scores have to come down for option money to pay anything .....

 

The WSRC has never utilized all of the traps and they still finish early, that being said there are several clubs that could, but probably do not want to get involved with hosting the grand and be micro managed by the ED, EC, and many of the BOD that do nothing but get in the way ... I agree 100% that Cardinal Center would be foolish to get involved, they have a full plate as it is and make it work because of good management ... I 'm not as sure as some people when they say trap numbers are down, registered trap numbers are down that is for sure ... I do not see an "Us against them mentality" I see people unwilling to be herded like sheep to a place that does not draw a crowd when they can go to a place like Cardinal Center and get their fix without all of the extra traveling ... The days of the grand being "The Grand" as many knew it are gone ... If the grand was moved to another place, club, location and all of a sudden the attendance was two, three, or more times what it is, that would not be proof enough for many, but they would lose all of the shooters from Sparta, that's for sure (all 3 or 4 of them ) ... Sparta was taken out of the running at one point but thanks to a miracle of sorts ended up being the place and was preferred after it initially could not pass due diligence which was avoided due to it being leased as opposed to the ATA owning it ... None of this is secret, and it can all be verified for those who really want to know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so Help you God ... WPT ... (YAC)

For any one who wants a sure bet, you can bet you will NEVER see me shoot in Sparta, Ill ...

 

I've only been able to make it to the WSRC for the Grand one time. I did have a very good time there and would like to make it back there someday if I ever get enough free time. It just isn't very high on the priority list anymore. It looks like the temps will be in the 80's most days which should help, or at least not be a reason to stay away. I hope all that can make it there have a good time and travel safe.

 

Huh? You went to Vandalia? More than 5,000 this year at the GAH? That post is about par for you Nudie. Wear depends much? Senile? Getting old Nudie?

 

It is in the "Gun Hate State". The ATA gave us a poll asking us a reason we may not attend a grand location. A gun hate state was one of the options. We told the ATA. The ATA did not care. Quit whining Colonel.

 

I am sure every shoot in the last 10 years has seen a decline. There used to be 40 squads shooting on Memorial day and Labor day at our local shoots and now there are about 15. So we can blame everything on Sparta. If the Grand was still in Vandalia, then our local shoot would still have 40 squads. Only if they brought half of them back from the dead.

 

It's a gun hate state, middle of no where, ATA left me. Just a bunch of dumb ass excuses for not wanting to drive anyplace. Only going if it's in my backyard! Just get over it and stay home! Let the rest of us real shooters have fun!!

 

T Shot

Those other guys have 6 huge shoots to attend, yeah in their backyard. You did not hurt their feelings. The ATA paid big bucks to a marketing firm that told them...."not in Illinois."

The ATA took a poll. The poll said not in Illinois.

The ATA decided long ago it did not need the shooters in PA, OH, NY and Jersey. Get over it. See you at the Cardinal Center in 10 days.

 

The real shooters! All 1745 of you

Looks to me like 2000 or more REAL SHOOTERS already took your advice.

 

I know there will be at least 1

 

I just returned from Sparta. It is not good, and not just for the way the game is being run. Three of the best resterants have been sold. The menus have been changed , but not for the better. We walked out of the the what used to be one of the finest in Sparta because of the changes. The Italian one in town does not seem to be clean. The local services to the shooters is shrinking. Several people had to leave because of bad food.
The road repair lasted only a couple of days. The rest rooms were very dirty, even in the early morning. No soap, or toilet paper in many. The central building was OK, clean and well stocked. They did try and fix the road in the middle of the week, it helped. They still do not know how to set targets by the ATA rules. It seems they just get them out in front of the shooters, then let them reset to their own likes. This is the dumbest thing they have ever let happen to our sport.
This was my 39th grand, probably also my last. It was a good run while it lasted, I enjoyed making many friends in the sport. I wish them all well. Roger C.

 

Gee, an honest assessment from someone who was actually there. Remind me again why I have no desire to go to Sparta! Thanks!

 

Congratulations Rogers on a good run, you are one of the Good guys in my book, always have been ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Don't know what shoot Roger was at? I've been at the WSRC for over 2 weeks. The rest rooms have been good and the grounds are clean. By the end of shoot offs things get dirty but good by morning. Yes the road is bad but maybe it will get fixed. It had lots of traffic. Some restaurants have closed but plenty of good ones left. Target setting was fine & I'm sure by ATA rules. Better than the CC.

 

T Shot
Oh boy, now you have gone and done it. You made a critique against the "Holy Land". I would recommend that you take shelter immediately!

 

Great post 10guns

It brings up a few major points.

1. Trapshooting is a near holy competition in the PA - OH area. That is why the grand "WAS GRAND" at Vandalia. We feel we are the caretakers of the sport.

2. Only 1 of 6 targets thrown in OH and PA are registered. It is an after thought. You think trapshooting is about an organization? My club had close to 40 squads just for practice Wednesday morning.

3. The holy land knows what is takes to be successful in the trapshooting world. That is why 5 of the 7 largest trapshoots are in PA or OH. Tell us about your state trapshoot.

3. PA and OH trapshooters are not above criticizing or discussing the good and bad in the sport without repercussion. You may have noticed one of the biggest threads this year is a critique of an OSTA meeting. No one banned from the forum. Open discussion is welcome.

4. This forum like the CC was created by shooters from the holy land. They love the discussions. Dissention is encouraged.

5. This year the GAH will have almost the same competitors as during the Korean War. The holy land will keep shooting with or without the ATA. Live with it. Don't blame us.
---------------------------------------------------

If you get a chance to visit the CC you will see what the SCTP has discovered. The SCTP has a choice. A lot of the shooters that attend Sparta do not.

 

In my not so humble opinion, the "Holy Land" vs "The Gun Hate State" proves nothing, when the BIGGEST "difference" is this SIMPLE .....

The one, "Sparta", is "self-serving" ..... and the other, "The Cardinal Center" is "all-serving" ..... one place is willing to spend millions to welcome EVERYONE with infrastructure improvements ..... the other place is willing to let a few pocket millions for nothing more than self-gain .....

Being a welcome guest, regardless of "All American Status", bank account, number of "registered targets", or anything else, makes ANY "location" a "destination" .....

 

Really! You Oh & Pa shooters think YOUR the caretakers of the sport? Give me a break! Come to the Midwest Wi Mn & yes I'll. We have more shoots & shoot more types of guns than you ever did!! Get over yourself!!

 

Ops! Sorry got excited.

 

Oops, you're right about one thing. When Krieghoff designed the K-80 it was marketed first on the East coast. Afterall, that's where most of the best shooters were located. You other guys must have ultimately recognized a good thing!

 

I fixed it for you ..... and even kept the post "Win101" liked .....

 

So why haven't all you Midwest, Wi, Mn, and yes, Il. shooters shown up to take the place of all those OH and PA shooters that won't go to that shoot in Il. The ata in their almighty wisdom thought that by moving to that white elephant all you "Midwest" shooters would show up and the numbers would be just as good as Vandalia.

Now there is an OOPS ! for you.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if they got a little over 2k. Something like 2025 MAYBE!

But there is no way they get 2100 or more. Which, for all the hype and the "fantastic direction" still has to be a disappointment.
Well, maybe not for them.
As long as somebody is showing up they seem to be satisfied.

 

Tshot. I do not know what you are used to, as far as clean goes, but if you thought the restrooms other than the entry building were clean, you have a problem with what constitutes clean.
Your taste in food must not be up to par also. The targets were the worst I have shot all season. If you thought they were OK, you must not have read the rule book describing the parameters for target setting. If you do not know what a properly set target is supposed to look like, your asessment of good targets is of now value.
Will you please name the plenty of good places to eat in Sparta? This will probably surprise you. You must travel 28 miles from Sparta to buy an ice cream cone.
I was only there nine days. The road was repaired before the shoot, and one time during the shoot. No big problem. If you read my earlier post, I did not complain or knock the organization for anything in particular. I just told it how it was. The vendor row was smaller than most other years . With the lack of shooters the vendors can not show a profit, thus they do not set up to do business.
Knocking the Ohio & Pa. shooters is not the way to make friends. The mid west is where the 2 hole target and the 42 yrd. doubles was held in high esteem. They also indulged in non interrupted trap machines so their shooters could pump up their averages for the all American teams. Before running down shooters in other areas, make sure you known of the problems in your own closet. Roger C.

 

Every state shoot in every state that T shot mentioned has fewer shooters today than when the grand was in Ohio. I know T shot because I have shot them all many times. The RULES that the EC have made has more to do with the decline of ATA shooting than moving to Sparta, BUT Sparta was the straw the broke the back and sped up the downfall. Everything the EC has done for the last 12 years is an effort to save Sparta, NOT to save trap shooting.

T shot unless you are a snowflake not capable of constructive reasoning LOOK at history and you will find the answers, I could point out that I have shot Trap in 38 states and 4 Canadian Providences. At those shoots I've shot around 400,000 registered targets.

As for guns I have broken 200 straight with 10 different guns, 100 straight from the 27 with 4 different guns, 100 straight doubles with 8 different guns, and killed 25 straight at pigeons with 4 different guns. So I think you may have got a little bit over come with your post about us EASTERN shooters.

It's OK to be loyal to your area but don't sound dumb when you defend it. Brad

 

So, how many did they get?

 

"shootata" shows "2003" ..... 13 show "0" for a score .....

So if you do "ATA math" ..... "1990" had a score, add that to "2003", and they will show "3993" as a "Fantastic Direction" in the "Trap and Field" rag they own .....

 

Here is a link ..... http://www.shootata.com/Portals/0/pdf/Event24HG.pdf

 

I am sure that you think that every shoot should have more numbers if the grand were still in Ohio.

 

Hello. I am sure there are very good shoots east of Sparta and that is great for shooters willing and able to travel the distances necessary. I went to Vandalia a few times and it was just okay, but the long, tedious drive from Kansas City was a poor trade-off. I understand the complaints and criticisms from those who miss Vandalia and wish the Grand was still there, but for me, the older I get, the less I enjoy travelling and the expense of distant shoots. That said, enjoy your game and quit worrying about how the other shooters enjoy theirs. Regards, Ed

 

Not SHOULD have

WOULD have

And yes it would

 

I guess we will never know, will we......? Oh well, Regards, Ed

 

What do you guys think the outcome would be if the Cardinal Center held a shoot directly against Sparta? Just something to ponder. Roger C.

 

The ATA wouldn't allow it!

 

IF (big IF), the Cardinal Center hosted a non registered/ big money shoot against the grand,the attendance in Illinois would be cut in half ... The EC and many of the Big Dogs would probably show up for it ... $$$$ talks and BS walks ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Brad D
Cut T-Shot some slack. He was merely responding to the post by FG (#31). I respect FG's opinion but his points/arguments literally contradict themselves. I'm paraphrasing here; In point (1) he states trapshooting is a "near holy competition" in OH-PA, the grandeur of Vandalia and that "WE" are the caretakers of the sport. Which given the reference to competition and Vandalia one could reasonably conclude this to mean the sport of registered trapshooting. Yet, in point (2) he states only 1 of 6 targets thrown in OH-PA are registered. "It is an afterthought" and his club had 40 squads for practice alone on Weds morning. So now, I guess this sacred, grand competition that he states in point (1) is merely an afterthought. Does that make the "WE" as caretakers to the "sport" which is now merely a bunch of old guys who have nothing better to do than gather together on a Weds morning to blow off a flat of shells. In point (3) it's be back to registered trapshooting again which apparently now is no longer an afterthought?? Probably point (3 no.2) which references the OSTA meeting thread provides the best explanation. In that thread I believe that most readers would conclude from the issues as presented; that the OSTA president and delegate (both elected by the Ohio membership) are apparently still somewhere out in the soybean patch when it comes to ATA matters/concerns. Also as stated by Tonya B. Ohio has membership that is apathetic and has little interest in attending such meetings. So, what is the bottom line? Ohio has an apathetic and disinterested membership that apparently when its convenient holds registered trapshooting as a "holy competition" and when it's not it becomes merely an afterthought?? Okay, sounds like you boys got it all together up there.

Brad, I think you will agree that all trapshooting tournaments including OH, PA and even the Vandalia Grand had suffered a declining attendance over the past 20+ years. There is no doubt that the continued actions and/or inactions of ATA leadership has dumbed down trapshooting to a mere shadow of what it used to be. The money is gone and there is little if any incentive for the average Joe to attend major tournaments. Yes, the move to Sparta was a mistake. But, do you really believe if it would have been put in a different location it would have made any substantial change to the trend(s) of trapshooting as a whole? As long as every event continues to be a virtual a "miss and out" and the best you can hope to win are baubles and trinkets you could put the Grand back in Vandalia and little would change.

Brad, let me say that I would be the first two recognize your talents as one of the great shooters of the game. The accolades that you received for your accomplishments are well deserved. However, I hope you are not suggesting as the "Dawg" that the K-80 was introduced on the East coast because most of the best shooters were from the East? I started shooting in 1972 and I believe the first K-8os hit the American market sometime during the 70's. At the time the East did have its share of elite shooters but I do recall a couple of fellas from Texas, a big old boy from MO and some little fella from CO who I think were pretty fair shooters in their own right.

 

You're right-not all the best but certainly the most!

 

No argument there Dawg. I know I got my butt kicked more times than I like to remember!

 

Why would you conclude that?

Trapshooting is a sport. Registering your bird is another way to give a few in the ATA money.

Easier to conclude most trapshooters have heard enough of the ATA corruption. To repeat....trapshooting is a sport. OSTA is an organization. The OSTA president previously discussed has been replaced.

 

10guns, yes I really do believe that if the ATA had moved somewhere else closer to the most shooters it would be a totally different situation today. Everything the EC has done in that last 10 years is to try and prop up the Sparta move. Remember the members themselves said if you move farther away from them they wouldn't go, if you moved to an ANTI gun state they wouldn't go, if you moved to a location with no amenities they wouldn't go.

The western shooters always thought that Ohio had more shooters because we had the grand in Ohio. Remember I shot a lot out west. I liked shooting out west because it used to have the most money. The golden west grand in Reno, Bob Taylor's, the Mint in Vegas, the chain shoots in Arizona. But for what ever reason all these shoots went to hell and closed up before the ATA moved, in some cases maybe just after, but all are gone even as the Grand moved west as the EC had been trying to so since before my time.

I heard all my shooting life that build it and they will come, well not out west. Ohio and Pa trap shooting would be just fine without the ATA. So I will not take it easy on T shot because he shot off his key board about something he doesn't know about.

I'll give you my opinion about the K 80. I always said the K was for the kick and the 80 for your score. When the heavy unsingle $10,000 (Financed) gun craze hit is when trap shooting really started down the tubes. The average shooter couldn't hit a 55 yard three hole target with that heavy of a gun and then when they had to tell their wife that they financed a gun that they shot in the eighties with they really started bitching. They thought that the money would make them better shots and that it had to be the gun, Not the case No talent.

So along comes Neil Winston to the rescue of his Rich friends, we shorten the targets, narrowed the angles, let you pick your traps even shoot all 100 on one field so the No Talent crowd could feel good about there $10,000 gun and break in the 90's but guess what when you shorten the targets, narrow the angles, let you pick your traps and then shoot all 100 on 1 field, the guys with the talent DON'T MISS and the competition becomes the joke it is today. Brad

 

Brad, The amenities are fading in Sparta. The Pioneer was sold and the new owners changed the menu, they only want to serve family style and the menu is very small, Lollies is not a very clean place, Grandmas in Steelville was sold and the food has down graded. The place just north of the grounds was sold and the menu is mostly cajun and not of the best quality. The China place was poor last year so we never tried it this year. The Italian place acrost from Walmart was sold and it does not appear to be very clean and the menu is very small. If you do not have a motor home on the grounds you will be a little tired of the food available. I only stated my opinion of the food, some may think it is OK. Roger C.

 

Yep I can relate. I thought that I could buy targets with a new fancy gun. All the hotdog shooters told me that I needed a "break open gun" in order to become a better shot.

 

If poeple would have seen how rude the old owner of the pioneer was,they would have never eat there a second time. He also treated his help like shit!

 

Hey, I was one of those K-gun shooters with very little talent and my feelings are hurt. Not because of your words . . . . but because I learned pretty quickly that at every shoot I attended, somebody beat the pants off me with a $300 Model 12, 870 or 1100.

HB

 

Doug, The one armed gentleman at the Pioneer was always very cordial and pleasant with me and my friends. He always had a smile and a friendly greeting. Maybe you met him on an off day. I ate there for 11 years several times at every Grand I attended. Roger C.

 

Brad,
I agree. The ATA leadership has had their head(s) in the sand for years. Everything that they have done has been for the benefit of the "pretenders" in the game turning tournament competitions into social events. That is my point, until that changes I don't see how we get back to the Grand or for that matter any major ATA tournament as a true competition no matter what venue it is at. Let's take a hypothetical disregarding all the ownership/political BS and assuming the CC has expanded large enough to hold the Grand. Yes, attendance will increase substantially. All the daily commuters and weekend warriors will be back. Shooter amenities in the area are virtually unlimited and the facilities/grounds are first class. However, there is no change to the critical issues, high scores and no money. For the wife and I to go to the Grand for the two weeks at Sparta it costs us $3K-$4K. My AA/27 days are long gone. Occasionally I'll find an acorn but I think the most winnings I had at any Sparta Grand was about $2K. My wife is solely a social shooter (D/20) and doesn't play any money. It's about 700 miles to Sparta and about 750 to the CC so costs would run about the same. Outside of the fact that I could eat breakfast at Bob Evans instead of Hardees, park my RV under a tree and maybe visit a few more vendors where's the difference and/or incentive to attend the CC anymore than Sparta. I only had the opportunity to attend the Vegas and Reno shoots a few times and I think you will agree the amenities and social activities there were second to none. However would you have shot there if the payoffs were like they are today? As Wpt says $$$$ talks and BS walks.

 

Roger,
Except for Lollies in the 11 years I attended Sparta (couldn't make it this year, family matter) I never ate at any of the places you mentioned. I probably overlooked some issues at Lollies because blue gill and liver & onions are two of my favorites and it's the only time I can get them. Southside Ribs is probably the best in town but you have to beat the crowd. I like the Chinese Buffet in the plaza across from Walmart but that's mostly because I'm cheap!! I also found the Pistol City in Coulterville and Reids Buffet in Chester to be pretty good.

I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt on the rest rooms and target settings but 28 miles to get an ice cream cone? Come on, I'm sure the Dairy Queen is still there, not to mention Mickey D's has cones. Sweat Peas in Chester also has an excellent variety and thats only about 18 miles. Seems to me that last year there were also several vendors that sold ice cream. I suppose if nothing else you could have bought a package of sugar cones and a gallon of ice cream at Walmart and you would of had enough cones for the entire Grand.

 

10guns, I do not like dairy queen. It is not ice cream. I had some from the vendors, one was very all ice. He replaced it but it was not much better. The ice cream at the Butcher block was very good. Acording to google the nearest place was 28 miles to get a real ice cream cone. Honest//// To bad you missed the Grand, but family must come first. Roger C.

 

Okay Roger, I'll buy that. At least you managed to get some ice cream even if it wasn't a cone.
This year was just one of those years for us. Everything went a&&-backwards and we really haven't been able to do much shooting at all. However we plan to be there next year, that is if the place is still open. I hope you will decide to make it back for at least one more year. 39 years is a heck of an accomplishment but 40 years is a milestone and I would hate to see you give it up one year short. Last year I shot the preliminary handicap with a fella who was ninety and he said it was his final year. He then proceeded to run the first box and I believe managed to shoot his age. So really at 81 you're still a youngster.

 

10Guns, I deffered having a shoulder replaced so I could attend the Grand this year. I go in for the replacement on Sept. 19 th. Should not be idled for more then 3 months, but only time will tell. Hope to meet you there next year. Maybe in a shoot off for the old people trophy. Roger C.

 

Roger,
If you need a driver and or body guard, I should be available ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Roger,
Good luck with your surgery. Pay attention to the Dr's, follow the rehab and you'll be good as new in no time.
Don't know about the shoot off. We wouldn't want to give the EC/ED and ideas for more trophies or categories!!
But if I do bump into you out there, I'll buy the ice cream!

 

Wasn't that the plan when the Cardinal Center opened and the ATA said no way, or was that just a rumor?

 

Ya had to be at the meeting-I wasn't invited, but I know who was.