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This I hope is going to be Factual Reporting, and not like ALL the reporting the Media blows way out of proportion and biased towards their Democratic, Liberal way of thinking. Trying to sway us in their mind set.

 

Brent Paulas, I think you have confused this site with one of the fairy tale and Rose colored glasses sites that a few people go to so they can feel good ... This site is based on facts, not story book fiction ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

If you say so? But it Sure seems to be a lot of Negative on the ATA and Sparta here. I lived real close to the Old Vandailia site in the 50s, 60s. I wasn't involved in Trap shooting then. But I do remember All the Activity. That venue brought Big Dollars to the community, had friends and relatives shooting and working there. So I'm not totally unaware of the GRAND. Politics Ruined it then and Politics is Tearing at it again. So all I'm asking is that, True Facts are posted. That being said, who here is able to do that. History Buff does a Fantastic Job of researching and passing on the History in a Factual manner. That's all I'm interested in. Just the Facts.

 

Brent,
If you truly feel anything that has been posted about the ATA and or Sparta is not accurate then you have not kept up on the postings all of which have been verified many by History Buff himself who does not post to just post ... There is no body here to be an ATA or Sparta Basher, just to let others know what is in actuality going on ... The numbers do not lie, if all was as well as the ATA would like you to believe there would of been more than 1745 entry's in what was once the biggest event of the year in the trap shooting world ... I have been a Life Member for over 40 years, not happy with the new and improved version of the ATA, Sparta I could care about even less ... I was there before it was ever considered for the relocation, nice little town but not a place I would put what was once the Biggest trapshooting championships in the world ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Now I need to clean the monitor.

I need to learn to never drink coffee while reading some of these posts, lol.

 

Prove me wrong, if you can ..! Define basher ... Telling it like it is in reality does not make anyone a BASHER ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Of course it does.

Strong criticism of a particular type of person or thing (ATA, Sparta, EC, Winston, etc.etc.etc..........) is indeed bashing as defined by the dictionary.

Happy to help out, lol.

 

Criticism is subjective at best, exposing the corruption, missing equipment, traps, money, and supporting other peoples hobby is not bashing on any level its telling it like it is ... Labels are for Mental Midgets that have to have something to say when they have no defense ... You should run for delegate, you'd fit right in ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Wpt, I must say I'm a bit disappointed in your response to "trapper". Especially from someone of your alleged stature and insight in the history of our game. Instead of responding objectively you chose to pontificate as if you are a student of Saul Alinsky. Shameful. However no doubt supporting posts will soon arrive from the proverbial groupies on this site. I do not contest that most posts do not present facts. However, facts when presented without full content and/or out of context can be misleading. IMHO to do such is solely to illicit bias and controversy. When subsequently questioned alas the closet doors open and the groupies a/k/a Richard Craniums appear. How many "positive" threads about the ATA have you seen on this site. I have been around the game for 45+ yrs. I am not a fan of Sparta, but in full disclosure I wasn't all that thrilled with Vandalia. BTW, speaking of corruption and missing items I'm sure that you were aware of the revolving back doors at Vandalia. Yet on this site, crickets??? I agree there are many problems with today's game. The EC needs to reined in and given the most recent ED report I would certainly question if he has any clue as to the mission statement of the ATA. That being said I do not choose to live in a 70's/80's time warp nor am I that immature that I choose to pick up my all my toys, go home and never shoot again. Others may disagree and certainly that is their right. I still enjoy the game even with all its faults. And, I will continue to aggravate my State officers and ATA delegate in hopes I may in some small way solicit positive change.

 

Hey "10Guns", could YOU please post the links to the posts where YOU presented the correct and complete FACTS "in context", when YOU have SEEN "facts when presented without full content and/or out of context can be misleading" ..... OR did YOU do ZERO to correct it with "full content and/or (in) context" supported by FACTS ?????

AND, YOU can make as many "positive threads about the ATA" YOU desire ..... but, if YOU are not willing to do so, I suggest not "bashing" others not willing to do it for YOU .....

 

User 1,
Thank you for the reaffirmation.

 

No problem "10Guns" ..... I would think anyone concerned about a place that would, "IMHO to do such is solely to illicit bias and controversy", would take the time to "correct" ANY factual errors .....

I guess that is something you can not/will not do ..... but, thanks for taking the time to "bash", and reply to my post .....

 

I actually liked Sparta when I visited it many years before the relocation came about ... I have my reservations about the EC, ED, BOD (many of them), and have not given N Winston so much as a thought in many, many months, hell longer than that to be honest ... Sparta has been proven to not be in the best interest of the ATA and its members based on the attendance records, that's not to say that Sparta is not rural America in its finest hour ... I do not care if you want to quote me, just be accurate about it please ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

Bashing is subjective, stating ones opinion is not bashing ... Its simply telling it like it is from a persons perspective, based on how it once was ...

 

WPT, I appreciate your reply. I'm down on the beach enjoying the sun. My tablet isn't cooperating with me, so as far as researching some of the old posts are on hold for me right now. I applaud your support of the ATA as a Life Member, so am I. You mentioned numbers,and Sparta. I shot at Sparta last year, it is out in BFE. I enjoyed my quite drive to the facility in the am, & pm. Only passed a few cars on the highway as compared to Hundereds on my way to the Cardinal. That country drive was pleasantly refreshing. I didn't run into anyone who was in any way negative to shoot. BUT, several did mention that it DIDN'T have the same GRAND ATMOSPHERE as did Vandailia. The set up is Totally different. So how does one go about trying to fix that? I'm not sure about that one. There has been some animosity between the Pro Sparta & the Pro Old Vandailia, that I don't view as Helping the cause in any form. If WE as Trap Shooters want this sport to live on as Our predecessors did. Maybe we need to come together as a Group of 1 instead of the many. So, how do we do that? Any recommendations for ALL of US? I will also say that I agree that Sparta being located in a state which is in what seems to Economic Failure Mode, and a Unfriendly Gun State is a pretty big issue in itself. Which just makes this whole issue Bigger.
The Grand is next month. So you tell me how can I hold a meeting of ATA members at Sparta? Bring up ALL of the Issues that are in need of Repair and or Realinement. Have ALL, and I mean ALL Officers, Board Members, and any other individuals who have ANY influence on HOW the ATA moves Foward. I will do my utmost best to make that happen. Ill also need some Legal advice, I'm just one of those Volunteer Worker Bees so Legal just doesn't fit me. Kinda late notice, but now is as good of time as any.

 

Guys, I'm going out on the boat for some enjoyment. So all I'm asking here is, or should I say when You reply just be Honest. Negative or Positive Thoughts or Ideas are welcome. Just hope there is some GOOD "BRAIN STORMING".
Thanks
Brent

 

I more so than anything I do not support the State of Illinois, lived there for the majority of my life and it keeps getting worse instead of better ... The ATA was advised in many different ways how an obvious majority of Members ( shooters) felt about the relocation to Sparta (Illinois) before it even became a reality ... The State of Illinois continues in a down word spiral even with a 5 billion dollar increase in taxes imposed on the residents, this has to be passed on some how, some way or the flow of residents leaving will be even more than last year (37,000) and that will cause a need for even higher taxes ... I'm not thrilled with the ATA and what they call transparency (Obama) when members should be advised what is going on, not after it happens which creates a situation of now its to late ... There are to many who use the ATA as a Cash Cow, and are in my opinion bottom feeders based on their actions ... The Grand Atmosphere got eliminated when the ATA forced the move to Illinois, the attendance can confirm that and until they get the hell out of Illinois I'm afraid the shooters they lost will stay lost or die before then can do any good again ... If I ever were to go to the grand it would not be to shoot, only visit friends ... I cut out shooting registered rather than support something I do not believe in ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

You WILL NOT be "allowed" to DO ANYTHING at the Grand in "Sparta" ..... That is the problem. You will be told to "vote better" next year, if you do not like your representation this year .....

Once per year you can "vote and hope", and if that fails you can do it over again. If you live long enough vote someone "in" to voice an "opinion", then you have to hope the promise of a $16,500.00 shotgun doesn't turn them into a "head-nodder" .....

Good luck "doing your best to make something happen", because "they" have had years of perfecting the "parliamentary procedure" to prevent "it" ..... just ask "Dr.Longshot", "N1H1" likes to make fun of him for proposing the same kind of thing at the "Grand" .....

 

I agree with Wpt. I don't know of any member that was happy with the relocation to Sparta. In fact, if I recall given the highly negative feedback from members, the Sparta site was initially taken off the table and we were told that the ATA would be looking at alternative sites which I believe were in Indiana and/or Ohio. To this day I have no idea how or why Sparta was subsequently chosen. And, like many suspect that somebody got their hand greased pretty good. Unlike Wpt I have not given up registered shooting, but I do share the frustration of others as to the continued misguided direction of todays ATA.
Brent, I applaud your effort(s), but who do think in that gathering of Officers, Board of Directors and other individuals at Sparta is actually going to believe/acknowledge that there are any significant problems? The dumbing down of the game from a once competitive sport to what I consider now to be a recreational jamboree didn't happen overnight. It's an agenda that has been promoted and expanded on for the past 20-25 years by most if not all the parties that would be at your meeting. Good luck convincing them that they're on the wrong track. However, here's a few suggestions you could try;
- Put control of the ATA back in the hands of the Board of Directors. Amend the by laws accordingly in particular Article IV, Sec.3(c) restricting the powers of the EC.
- Establish a stronger screening and election process for state delegates to assure that they understand their duties so that they will adequately represent their constituents.
- Given the advantages of todays cyber-age no reason why there couldn't be semi-annual or even quarterly meetings of the BOD.
- Send a questionnaire/survey to all members requesting recommendations for changes to any ATA rule. The results to be reviewed by the BOD and posted on-line. Any changes recommended by a majority of the membership should be voted upon by the BOD and implemented accordingly.
- All votes of the BOD should be a roll call vote and results posted online.
I could go into the broken hdcp system, the category and all american points debacle etc, etc but I think those issues are best left to the general membership rather than my personal opinion. Again good luck, but I fear about the only thing you will get is a request to exit the room asap.

 

Brent....your Ohio delegate doesn't even have to answer questions.

 

Please don't question the "cash cow". Dr. Rively (the former ED) made that mistake just once.

 

Just asking a question here guys. If a group say of at least 500, hopefully more like 1500. We're to show up on a given day and time at the Grand. Say during the Board meeting and asked to be recognized. Are you telling me that they don't have to listen to us? Especially if the majority is comprised of Life Members, of course they already have our money. But if the Non Life members that show up and also voice theirs along with the Life members. I really don't see how they could turn us down. But, it would have to be well established as to what Goals, New Route, or what ever the MAJORITY so desires to move this ATA Forward.
I know its short notice, but I'm willing to give it my best shot. I guess if there is no agreement with this, then Everyone is just Fine and Dandy with how things are going. JMHO
Best Regards
Brent

 

Brent,
So you feel all of the shooters (based on the past) would show up and confront the EC, ED, and BOD ..? I truly feel your intentions are nothing but in the best interest of the members and the organization itself, Its not going to happen ... NO, I can tell you even that many people will not be heard ... Don't waste your best shot on trying to approach the ED, EC or most of the BOD, but I like your way of thinking ... Remember last year they had 1745 shooters shoot in the biggest trapshooting event of the year (grand American Handicap) and they could not get 2,000 entries in even one event ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

You may be interested in this thread ..... http://www.americantrapshooter.com/...of-the-ata-meeting-in-sparta.1338/#post-13650

 

Brent,
You may want to take a look at the Draft Report to ATA EC, Summary of Recommendations/Observations submitted by Bob Glatz, July 10, 2010. The original report which was sent to the EC, CHC and PP's managed to get more than a few of the esteemed officers "panties in a bunch" to say the least. This was the report that set in motion the ultimate termination of the then ED Frank Rively. I believe Mr. Glatz subsequently sent his report to every member of the BOD when it appeared that there was going to be little interest and/or action(s) taken by the EC. Probably the most critical issue in Mr Glatz's report went to the governance of the ATA. In particular, his emphasis on reorganization and structural changes to move away from the existing "lockstep succession" of executives. This was seven years ago and as I noted was brought to the attention of every member of the BOD. With the exception of some minor changes to fiscal controls and IT upgrades what if any actions have been taken to address a directional change or structural reorganization?
Again I applaud your efforts but WPT is correct, what you're proposing would be pretty much a wasted effort. I think you would be better served if you were to start at the zone level and convince a majority of delegates to vote for a new zone VP. However I would caution you to review the ATA By-laws as certain actions are required to initiate nominations if a VP has held office for two or more successive years. If each zone would consider this and elect new VP's who are proactive and receptive to change you may get your "new beginning".

 

This thread ..... http://www.americantrapshooter.com/...bert-glass-frank-rively-info.1690/#post-17695 ..... has the "Bob Glatz report" .....

 

Brent....I disagree with all the above. 1500 people at the meeting would change a lot. If you can put 1500 together God bless you. If I remember right there was a hostile takeover of the NRA. Who has the facts on that?

 

If the ED, EC, and or BOD figured 1500 people were going to barnstorm the meeting they will go into executive session to avoid having to answer to the membership ... The ATA does not want to be confronted, but its a good idea, next trick will be getting 1,000 plus shooters (members) to come forth to help your cause ... FAGETABOUTIT ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT.....If these guys thought making the 1500 happy would save the cash cow they might blink. jmho

 

If you want 1500 "Trapshooters" to gather in one spot, offer free food .....

If you want to stop the shoot, offer free food and a box of free shells. The food/shell line would get long enough to empty the Trap line .....

Heck ..... for a free meal and a flat of shells, you could get all 1500 to wear pink skirts and sing Kumbaya .....

 

Brent I went to Sparta Grand meeting and asked If I could make a statement, I was told to give my info to my State Delegate, as I could not make any Statement, I then asked to be put on the Agenda at the end of the meeting, I was told NO.

The ATA. BOD, EC, are a CLICK They Do What They Want To Do, The Hell with the State Delegates, Example 2 Yards Off Given w/o approval, or Notice TWICE

GB.................................................DLS