Case of the missing Vandalia Trolleys POLL

The proud trolleys that once carried shooters around Vandalia and recently stored at the WSRC have vanished. Some think the trolleys were taken by the IDNR to another state park. Despite the ATA having records of serial numbers the trolleys are still missing.

 

merlo, The trolleys are property of the state of Illinois...believe it or not the ATA during the move to Sparta sold them. being a board member of the OSTA one goal of mine is to bring the trolleys back to Cardinal Center. I was told by the current president (ATA) that they were property of the state of Illinois??

 

I was at the WSRC last weekend for the SCTP Midwest Regional.
I drove several of my squad members to the practice traps on the east side of the complex. On the way back to our bank, I saw several of the trolleys sitting behind the building at the practice traps.

One of the boys asked what they were and I told him they were transport trolleys that came from the old ATA grounds in Vandalia and they came to the WSRC when the ATA moved.

They don't use them to transport people now but put them out during the Grand for people to sit and get a little shade.

I didn't count them but I'll get a count next weekend when there for US Open.

 

I thought they were donated to the IDNR so the shooters would have at least a little shade. It is sad they are missing.

 

Are you certain they were sold? I too seem to recall the ATA donated them to be used behind the banks as rest & shade locations for shooters. I attended the Grand every year from 2006-2012 and they were always in place. Well, except for the year there was a huge storm and the winds pushed one out into the entrance roadway.

I didn't see where the OP suggested who owned the old covered wagons. I took it as the IDNR moved some wagons that were (given or sold) to the IDNR for a specific purpose. At least they were for 11 years the ATA has leased the Complex.

HB

 

When I inquired about them in Jan. I was told the state of Illinois owns them..maybe they did donate them? but the ATA has no control over them at all now. I really liked the trolleys at Vandalia and met a lot of good friends riding them years ago....

 

Just after the ATA moved to Sparta, I believe the ATA requested sponsors for these transport trailers to be parked at the traps for shade for the shooters. Some States/Provinces and gun clubs paid fees to sponsor these trailers for shade for shooters during the Grand. At this time were not the trailers owned by the ATA, or does somebody know if and when they were donated to the IDNR. My curiosity is arroused

 

According to the Executive Committee minutes ,in 2006 the ATA donated the "people movers" and other items related to shooting events to the IDNR. They could have chosen to sell the items but it appears they thought it better to donate them so they would be used during the shooting events. While they are owned by the IDNR, I think it is clear that the ATA intended that the items stay on site or at least be available during tournaments. Perhaps that's why the folks at the WSRC are trying to track them down ( assuming the report is true). And, I haven't found Merlo wrong yet.

 

I swear there is no person alive that has the extensive files on the HISTORY of our sport like History Buff has.

If ever there were to be a person inducted into the Trapshooting Hall of Fame, History Buff should be.

This fellow has devoted himself to the preservation of the HISTORY of the sport of Trap Shooting. Without HB, I am afraid our history would be lost over time.

After the ATA saw fit to destroy many of the old files (records) of the past when they moved from Vandalia, they showed just how much they care about us knowing the history of the sport.

I would call his dedication to the history of our sport, one of the best "Contributor" selections of all times.

Thank You Mr. History Buff for all you do for us who are interested in the legacy of our sport.

I know your STATE THOF saw fit to induct you into their's for your ongoing commitment, and it is my hope that

someday the Selection Committee for the National THOF sees fit to induct YOU into their's.

These files you keep are invaluable to us.

 

Brad's friend (I hope),

I truly appreciate your kinds words regarding my years of contributing to the preservation of trapshooting history.

However, I must respectfully disagree with the suggestion that my likeness should ever grace the walls of the Trapshooting Hall of Fame along with those who established remarkable shooting records and contributed so much to the success of our sport. Any qualifications I may have pale in comparison to those who have been selected for the honor.

Simply put, I am unworthy of the recognition you have suggested. Knowing this myself, I would respectfully decline a nomination/selection. Hanging my picture on the same walls with all the great shooters would cheapen their achievements and contributions. That, is something I would never do.

Selection to any Hall of Fame should be reserved for those who are considered to be one of the greatest. A properly prepared biography will convince 100% of its readers the Inductee is deserving of enshrinement. Induction is an honor not reserved for friends, association officers or even good shooters. It's for those who significantly surpass the accomplishments of the masses.

I care deeply about our sport and wish success from end to end. I enjoy compiling our history and share it whenever I can. Not for the purpose of demeaning anyone but to help educate and sort out fact from fiction.

I've gladly made many contributions over the years but not enough to deserve much recognition outside the boundaries of the Americantrapshooter forum. Maybe not even on this forum.

HB

 

Well HB, we all think of you as the Guru of the History of our organization, and although you are modest to a fault, I still believe in you receiving the accolades you so justly deserve.

Your efforts to see we are informed of the past and present are much appreciated.

 

Looks like the "Amazing Merlo" nailed it again.

I just received information from a creditable source that an inventory check, earlier in the year, found that two blue trolley's were missing from the Complex. Hopefully they've been returned to their rightful places and used as they were meant to be until the shade trees grow a little more.

The facts and nothing but the facts, according to the 2011 Amended ATA-IDNR Lease Agreement.

​

 

Absolutely AMAZING.

 

I vote for Their XFER to Cardinal Center for use by ATA Members & Family, to allow for SHOPPING and Transportation. WE NEED THEIR USE.

We could use 5 of them NOW, Maybe we could get some donated by White Flyer & Budweiser

Gary Bryant...........................................Dr.longshot

 

I think the storm blew them into one of the lakes with a couple of port-a-potty's.

 

There are still trolleys at the WSRC.
I saw them last weekend.
See my earlier post.
I will get a count this coming weekend when attending the US Open.

 

Any super sleuths out there that have the answers to this riddle please note that the trolleys are blue. It is about locating the right trolleys. Serial numbers would be helpful.

 

How do we know if any are missing? We don't know how many they had. If they belong to the DNR they can do what they want with them. Some are in bad shape and needed to go anyway.

 

We know they are missing because Merlo said they were missing. Nobody has ever been able to discover how Merlo knows, but he's broken many stories on this forum and I don't recall him ever being incorrect. If he says he's got information there are two missing blue trolleys . . . . you can take it to the bank.

It appears that our ATA leadership went to great lengths to preserve the intended use of the old Vandalia Tolleys before their donation to the Illinois Department of Natural Resourses (IDNR). If they were not reasonably assured that they would be used as rest and shade stops for shooters during registered shoots, I believe they would have found another home for them or placed them up for sale.

If the ATA did not have a real concern for the TROLLEYS and didn't care what the IDNR did with them, they would never have insisted they be part of the lease agreement.

If that's not enough to satisfy the question of the ATA's interest in the future of the donated TROLLEYS, please know that they require even more specifics regarding the "TROLLEY"S" in the annual GAH Tournament Management Plan, submitted to the IDNR a few months prior to the Grand American. While they no longer are the property of the ATA, you will see that the ATA has retained some control over their and the Tournament Director has control of where they are positioned.

I hope this helps explain the matter.


HB

 

Merlo did not say how many were in Ohio and how many are in Sparta. So we don't if any are missing. I'm not taking his opinion as fact.

 

I have a theory that Merlo's real name might be Ivan Merlovoninsskhi or something. Certainly if you watch the fake news all the hacking that the Ruskis have done he must be KGB to have all the facts all time.

Has anyone seen Gibson and Palosi in the same photo? They could be the same person, their statements make about the same amount of sense. Brad

 

That's your right T Shot.

I don't have any idea of the total number of TROLLEY'S and don't know that it really matters in the context of this discussion.

Normally, I too would be skeptical of reports like this, however, it came from Merlo. Until somebody proves one of his reports wrong, I will continue to assume he/she has some inside information.

If you are interested in the number of TROLLEY'S, why not give a call to the ATA office and ask for the number and if any were missing, and if so, were they've been found?

I think we would all applaud your effort and kindly thank you for the answers to the questions.

Respectfully,

HB

 

Of course it matters! If you don't know how many they had how do we know if their gone?? Is Merlo a mind reader?

 

I never implied it did not matter to some, especially those who have a stake in their ownership, use and care taking. I'm sure the WSRC and ATA both know how many wagons were donated. That's how they knew some were not where they should be. I'll venture to guess that someone at the WSRC found some were missing and somehow Merlo found out.

My reply was that the total number doesn't really matter for the sake of this discussion.

What matters is what was reported . . . . "missing Vandalia trolleys."

And having never met Merlo, I have no idea of Merlo's ability to read minds nor "how do we know there gone?"

Your questions should be directed toward someone who has that information. All my comments were to made to help provide factual information regarding the history of the old TROLLEY'S.

Here's a couple pictures I took from my hiding place should anyone doubt my word.

 

I'm at WSRC right now,just shot the Il Southern Zone Shoot yesterday and waiting for the US Open to start Wednesday. I just drove by the target storage building and counted eight blue trolleys setting there. I don't know how many there were in Ohio but there are eight here now.

 

With the history of the Trollies, one should be preserved in the Horse Barn out there.

After all, they are a part of the Vandalia Facility history.

 

Which horse barn?
All the buildings except the target storing pole barns, the event center and the hall of fame building look like horse barns. Especially the shell house.

 

I was thinking of the Hall of Fame Building.

No denying that it does remind one of an expensive Horse Barn.

 

if they were to provide shade for shooters,why are there no covers on the roofs.

 

Uhh, maybe they took the canvas covers off and stored them in a building so they weren't exposed to the weather and deterioration?

Just guessing.

Crazy answer to a stupid question?

 

There you have it all 8 there. None missing! Merlo was wrong!

 

T.......Are you sure?

 

Yup someone said they are still there.

 

I must be extremely clear. I have the facts!

Thanks to all those in the trenches that get this information.

I report. You decide.

Merlo out

 

Gotta love Merlo! Just the facts mam.

 

Merlo,

Any word if the missing trolley's were ever found and returned?

 

Merlo you say you have THE FACTS what are they? How many were at Sparta year 1 & how many are there now. Just the facts![GALLERY=][/GALLERY]

 

Ask Neil Crausby, He made them in Texas and transported them to the shooting grounds. I'm sure he remembers how many he made> Roger C.

 

Don't care how many he made. How many were in Sparta last year & how many are there now! Come on Merlo what are the numbers!!

 

T Shot they were all transported to Sparta. If the numbers are different you have you answer. Is that not your quest? Roger C.

 

Tshot,
Do you not read any post above yours? PAPA27 posted Monday that there where 8 trolleys on the grounds at Sparta that day, then posted a f#&king picture!
I also posted that I was there the weekend before for the SCTP Midwest Regional and saw trolleys sitting behind the East target storage building.

So, dipshit, before you spout off about HB or Merlo posting false info, check earlier post!

I'll be there Saturday for the 200 singles at the US Open and will verify PAPA27's count.

Sit and wait with your foot in your mouth or your thumb up your a$$,
I really don't give a SHIT!

 

It is what it is. If IDNR lost a couple of them I'm not sure what impact that has on us. If the impact is lack of shade or seating, I would expect ATA to make arrangements with IDNR to address it. Other than that, I don't see the point of arguing how many there were and how many there are now. They are, and have been IDNR property for years. Yep, ATA wanted them available for shade and seating during the lease period, so if IDNR lost a couple, they should put up a couple sun shelters and some benches. What else do you want them to do?

 

Bat,
I do not think the loss is the sticking point here. The ATA has lost a lot of equipment in the past. (8) trap machines , parts off of two trap machines, that they were to far gone to repair, voice calls. A tractor. These we know about. Roger C.

 

Roger, I just don't see your point in relation to the ATA. IDNR lost them, not the ATA. ATA hasn't had any of these trolleys in over 10 years.

As I said before, only impact I can see on ATA is if they really need the shaded seating areas, they will have to make arrangements with IDNR to accommodate them another way. IDNR is likely interested in finding them, but I would guess it isn't a big issue for the state, they likely lose a lot more items than that.

 

Ahhhh......there it is. Anytime there is another ATA blunder or someone just gets caught being corrupt, Bat is there to the rescue. Strange it took 45 posts. Makes you think he is an ex EC member.

So Bat, please let the lay people know how a few of these things get misplaced?

There are a few people in the know that heard about the missing trolleys just before spring. These trolleys are mentioned in the lease. They were donated with the understanding the IDNR would maintain them and they would be available for the trapshooters. Not that leases are important.

 

Look to the far west side of the CC you may find 2 blue trolleys. Dont ask dont tell.

 

Let me get this straight - are you saying if some property is lost by, or stolen from, the IDNR, that is an ATA blunder, or someone in the ATA is somehow corrupt because of it? You gotta explain that leap in a little more detail. The trolleys belong to the IDNR and are the responsibility of the IDNR.

How do they get misplaced? Well, someone could have simply stolen them, then again IDNR may have moved them somewhere else as was previously mentioned. Who knows.

Sounds to me that IDNR is short a couple of trolleys that are supposed to be used to provide shading or seating as part of the lease. I don't think that is going to be a very material item, and would be amazed if it amounts to grounds for a default. I would expect that an offer to provide benches under a sun shade to replace the 2 missing trolleys would settle the issue. Maybe you think it is a bigger deal as far as a default under the terms of the lease? Or what exactly is the big negative impact on the ATA?

 

Bat, I'd think both the IDNR and the ATA would (should) be more concerned with the few thousand campers and shooters that they seemed to have lost or miss-placed since last years glowing grand report in the local paper. I can't remember all the facts but I seem to remember something about 15,000 campers. Brad

 

Yeah, FWIW those numbers are pretty comical, I agree. But has nothing to do with the thread.

 

The ATA told the media there were 15,000 in the campground and another 15,000 in the motels. And that was only prelim week. Obviously they need every trolley.

The trolleys mean more to others. They came from a venue that was successful. That was back when the grand was GRAND.

They were donated to the IDNR for the shooters. But it is just a lease. And the trolleys are just a trolley. I hope they found their way home.....at least close to Vandalia.

 

I think it has everything to do with this thread. The IDNR and the ATA has a history of loosing things, I also remember they miss placed a few Beretta Guns and some ammo a few years back so why do any of you doubt that they'd loose a few wagons on wheels? Things have walked off so rolling away isn't that far of a stretch. Merlo has never been proven wrong that I can remember. Brad

 

Bat,
I was just pointing out that there may be a pattern here. Can you not see it? Roger C.

 

So what's the deal here: are you guys saying an EC member stole the 2 trolleys from the IDNR and took them to the west side of the CC?

 

"Bat" is selective on what "thread" to chime in on .....

I was kind of hoping to hear, on different threads, "Bat's" opinion on the "ATA's" "$16,928,304.00" in "assets", as shown in a different thread that "Bat" seems to avoid .....

A over-priced "Office building" and some "Trap equipment" seems very short from the "reported $16,928,304.00" in "assets" .....

It also looks like some in "charge" feel as long as they "piss-away" the "ATA's income", they can stay "tax exempt" ..... But at some point the "IRS" is going to get much more "interested" in "where" this income/assets comes from, NOT that "they" can "piss it away" .....

Good luck with telling the IRS how a few bucks from each "shooter per day" in "daily fees", a 20 dollar "annual membership" from less and less shooters per year, and a tiny shoot in BFE can make all these "big numbers" happen.

 

What do you want to hear from me about the financial info HB posted? I don't have an opinion on the data posted, other than it seems pretty self-explanatory. I have no reason to doubt HB's posting, nothing about his post seemed misleading, so I saw no point in "chiming in."

 

Thanks for the reply "Bat" ..... "it seems pretty self-explanatory" .....

I am sure you have an "opinion", everyone does ..... but, hey, carry on with something you feel is "easy to defend on behalf of the "ATA" ..... and I will not cause my hated "thread drift" .....

 

Bat,
I only pointed to the fact that things do get lost around the ATA. You brought up the idea that the EC took Them. shame on you. Roger C.

 

Roger, as if you did not realize it, that was a question, not a statement. This is not the ATA, it is the IDNR, that is why I'm not following you when you keep saying the ATA loses things? You always want to say something about the missing assets from years past but always beat around the bush and avoid coming out and naming names or what you understand as actually having happened. I respect that, but please don't twist my words to try to get your point across, fair enough?

Someone posted above the trolleys are at the CC, I don't know if that's a joke or not. Someone else posted that the IDNR may have simply taken them to another state park, which seems on its face more likely. Heck, someone could have just towed them away at night with the place pretty much shut down so much of the year. I just don't follow the ATA involvement undertone apparent here without some better explanation for it.

User 1, what opinion could I have on HB's post, other than I see no reason to doubt it? It was a listing of (I believe) total assets and total revenue amounts, what opinion could anyone have on that? I don't see what's to "defend on behalf of the ATA," I'm not sure what the challenge is that needs to be defended? Thus no need to chime in.

You posted some statements above about the income/assets but I don't really follow your point so I didn't chime in on those either. Most of the ATA's assets are cash and investments, that seems pretty clear.

 

OK "Bat" ..... IF "Most of the ATA's assets are cash and investments", and "that seems pretty clear".

"Chime in" on this ..... "Good luck with telling the IRS how a few bucks from each "shooter per day" in "daily fees", a 20 dollar "annual membership" from less and less shooters per year, and a tiny shoot in BFE can make all these "big numbers" happen."

 

There you go 101. You can't say anything intelligent so start name calling! I know there 8 in Sparta. I have people there to. But we need to know how many last year or 2015. Then we know if any are missing. And I bet the ATA didn't steal them from the DNR!

 

Not something I would tend to "chime in" on, I don't follow your question, or if you even have a question there? Not sure what "luck" has to do with it, but if you are truly interested take a look at a 990.

Those "few dollars" you mention run over a million dollars per year generally, plus I believe revenue from camping sites in recent years is significant. Interest and dividends provide a substantial amount also.

 

Are you trying to "imply" a losing venture like "camping" would increase the "assets" line ?????

 

I have no idea whether the camping is a losing venture or not. It is a source of revenue, and I believe HB's posted data included total revenue (I have not gone back to that thread to check, but I thought it was total assets and total revenue, but I could be wrong about the revenue number, maybe it was income, I will check later).

As far as the total asset side of things, what's your specific question? They have been earning pretty good profits most years for a while now, which increases net assets. Over time that builds up assets. Go look at 990s to track it over the years if you prefer, but in simple terms, net income generally increases assets.

I'm still not sure what your point is. They turn a profit, including pretty good amount of investment income. That increases assets, the majority of which consist of cash and investments.

 

How did we get off the subject of the missing trolleys? are some trolleys still unaccounted for?

 

You are right oldphart. Sounds like 2 are missing from what I can see above, but it is not clear.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that, "in simple terms, net income generally increases assets", can be true ..... The "word" used in HB's post is "Income" ..... $6,059,920.00 under "Income" for "Fiscal Year 09/30/2106" ..... "Income vs. Revenue. For a business, income refers to net profit i.e. what remains after expenses and taxes are subtracted from revenue. Revenue is the total amount of money the business receives from its customers for its products and services." ..... from https://www.google.com/search?q=revenue vs income&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

My question is ..... Has the "ATA" become nothing more than a "Hedge Fund" using "Trapshooting" to try and be "tax exempt" ????? Burning up "revenue" funding some people's "shooting hobby".

 

If you "see no reason to doubt HB's post" ..... then you seem to "not doubt" the word "Income" ..... and you try to offer, "Those "few dollars" you mention run over a million dollars per year generally", as ????? "revenue" ?????

Over 4 million in "Income" from "Trapshooting" to make "6 million in Income" work for the "IRS", looks like a very big number to me .....

 

EDIT:this is based on your second to last post: FWIW, you have to be careful with a term such as "income" because it gets thrown around so loosely by many different people. That's why you will see a distinction in any audited financial statements. The term "Income" will not be used interchangeably with "net income." In day to day conversation it is used as you posted from Google, but the danger is that can lead to misunderstandings, as in this case.

In this case, the term "Income" used by the state on that Charitable organization website refers to gross income, not net income. It's a poor choice of wording on their part for that website.

I guess that doesn't matter here at all though since I don't follow your question in that last sentence at all, and it is getting a bit off from the topic of the mysteriously missing trolleys.

Waiting for more info from Merlo as to their whereabouts!

 

In reply to that, see my previous post regarding what "income' means on that website.

Regarding your 4 million and 6 million issue, I don't think you understand what the 33 1/3 test is about. It runs off gross receipts, not net income.

 

You state that as "fact", and it may be ..... but I fail to see where you want to provide the unwashed masses with anything other than your post .....

 

Someone has asked if the trolleys are "still unaccounted for". I cannot say they are or are not. Only that the same official person(s) that confirmed they are missing says they are no longer missing. An official written account of inventory has been requested.

I report. You decide.

Merlo out.

 

Just got home from the US Open.
Grounds are beautiful. Grass was mowed since I was there 2 weeks ago.
Cardinal Lane still hasn't been repaired.
Targets were great!
Looks like numbers of entries were up.
Great turn out today!
And.....there are 8 trolleys on site. Same place they were 2 weeks ago. And same as last week per PAPA27's photo.
Drove around the place and spotted no others.

 

As soon as the great gun giveaway is exposed here the by-laws are changed. When this group found out the trolleys are missing, they are returned. Good stuff. What next?

 

"What next?" With some "luck" ..... "Bat" will keep playing "word games" long enough to see "why" some things that appear to not make sense, may .....

Look at, "I have no idea whether the camping is a losing venture or not. It is a source of revenue", so why bother ????? Maybe it is, "They turn a profit, including pretty good amount of investment income. That increases assets, the majority of which consist of cash and investments."

So, the "ATA" needs show "non-investment revenue", takes "camping" knowing it is a loser, but shows as "revenue", then "by mistake" reports all these inflated numbers about "how many people are camping" ..... Maybe these inflated numbers are a "planned mistake", until they get "questioned here".

Could it be that these "excel errors", and reporting inflated "camping numbers", are not the joke they seem to be ?????

 

User,

I'm not using any "word games," I think my posts are fairly clear. Since you called me out for not responding to enough posts, and actually asked for my input on the subject, I was telling you what the number your inquired about represented.

You need to know what the definition of the term you are interested in means. You made the assumption that "Income" as reported on that website meant "net income" after apparently researching on Google. Often, in every-day usage, that might be correct, but it isn't in this case. Illinois shows the gross revenue from a report on that website that HB posted, and they simply label it income. I was just telling you what some revenue sources where. Daily fees, dues, the grand, satellite grands, camping, interest and dividends, realized gains and losses on investments, among other things. I really don't know why you want to keep disagreeing with me about things like this.

Talk about "word games", what does your third paragraph above mean? "Needs show non-investment revenue" ... huh?, they need to show all of their revenue. Revenue is revenue, what does "knowing it is a loser" have to do with whether something is revenue? I can only guess you are interested in the 33 1/3 test so I'm giving you information about it. ATA passes the test, but it is something that they have to watch, as the investment income is significant.

Heck, at this point we don't even know if the "missing" trolleys were ever missing at all. We will have to wait until Merlo finds out more about that inventory issue.

 

We have papers showing the trolleys were missing. We have seen correspondence saying the trolleys are now accounted for. We have not seen an official inventory showing they are on the grounds of the WSRC. We are working on that.

How does one lose two items each the size of a bus?

I report. You decide.

Merlo out

 

Thanks "Bat" ..... It is always fun to read your posts .....

I have to always ask how you can post "facts" like, " but it isn't in this case. Illinois shows the gross revenue from a report on that website that HB posted, and they simply label it income", with NOTHING to support it but your posts.

Do you work for "Illinois", to know "they simply label it income" ????? Are you "directly involved" in the "ATA's" financial matters, so you can post something other than an "opinion" ?????

What say you "Bat" ????? I would like to know where your "inside information" comes from, to post something presented as "fact", and not just "opinion" .....

 

Glad you are having fun.

No inside information, just smart enough to know that that most state Charities websites present financial information from forms filed with them. The Illinois Charitable Organization Annual Report asks for Revenues (even goes so far as to specifically request "Gross Amts"). That is the only "income" item present on the form. Nowhere does it show "net income". If it does not show "net income" it is unlikely that they go out of their way to manually perform some calculation to present on their website.

If that is not good enough for you, next, you can go look at the ATA filing, and for example - year ended 9/30/2103, the "Summary of all Revenue Items During the Year" (gross amounts as directed on the form) totals $4,173,014. I'd have to go back to HB's post in that other thread, but I am fairly sure you will find that the "Income" shown on that website for year ended 9/30/13 agrees to that number. That should be proof enough to most people that the website's amount shown under the "Income" heading represents gross amounts.

All this just to get you to stop arguing with me about whether the number on that website is gross or net! And you specifically requested me to comment on it in the first place! Does anyone other than you even care? Heck, this specific issue has nothing to do with the ATA, you can go look at any Charity in IL and double check that the gross amounts of revenue on the annual filing will equal the amount that IL website shows under the heading "Income," which you seem to want to somehow mean "net income" and honestly I can't figure out why you want to keep arguing about the topic. Who cares if the website reports gross or net?

Really don't understand why you are so relentless about this. I've told you numerous times I'm not EC. At this point I'm more interested in what Merlo is trying to find out about the inventory issue.

 

You have some GOOD questions "Bat", like ..... "Does anyone other than you even care?" .....

And, "Who cares if the website reports gross or net?" ..... You didn't, until I "pointed out" what "word" they chose to use ..... "User 1, what opinion could I have on HB's post, other than I see no reason to doubt it?" ..... And I gave a "reference" to the "way" the unwashed masses may "read" it .....

I may be "just smart enough to know" many things, but try to keep "opinions" as such, and try to support "facts" with something more .....

"And you specifically requested me to comment on it in the first place!" ..... FWIW ..... I "ask" for your "opinion" ..... "I was kind of hoping to hear, on different threads, "Bat's" opinion" ..... Then you start presenting "facts" with NO SUPPORT .....

Thanks again "Bat" ..... I know someone in cyber-land that uses this word a lot "And you specifically requested me to comment", but he uses "charts and graphs" to support "HIS facts" to the unwashed masses .....

 

User 1 I think a graph would go good here, or at least a chart. BD

 

I have no doubt how a "pretty" full color chart and/or graph would be nice ..... I would hope the chart/graph could show how the "money-making" machine called the "ATA", can be "worth" the reported 17-ish million, and FAIL to "support Trapshooting" .....

ALL those "big-bucks" and NO EFFORT for a "new and/or revised rule book" ..... ZERO "effort" at anything for a possible improvement in the "handicap system", other than "Pipelayer's" efforts to abolish the "18 yard-line", before "mandatory reductions" makes him shoot there. No need for "added money", because the "never-was" "ATA" leaders have no way to get any of it .....

But, I guess looking at a nice pretty full color chart or graph showing the "fantastic direction" of a "highly-profitable hedge fund" ..... beats the hell out of having to look at do-it-yourself backyard junk science choke tube patterns .....

 

What's a graph got to do with the "missing" trolleys?
Just asking.

 

Nothing at all Win101.

All that rhetoric is just more "thread drift."

 

Just find out who would benefit from having the trolleys. It must be some one on the inside of either the ATA or the state of Ill. Or some one connected to a business that could use them to haul people around on them. Better check and see if all tractors are in inventory yet. Hop to it merlo, Roger C.

 

Merlo,

I'm hearing rumor that the missing Trolleys amount to peanuts when compared to all the other items the WSRC management have found to be missing during their last audit.

Is there any new developments on those Trolleys or inventory list?

HB

 

Merlo,
Has anyone counted the trap machines they have in inventory? At about $7000.00 each, they should all be accounted for. Their inventory of spare parts would be a temptation for any one connected to another gun club.
It is about time for an audit to be done. An auditor that is not appointed by the ATA. Stealing is still a crime in ILL. is it not. Roger C.

 

Luckily the ATA does not keep a shell inventory, remember in Vandalia after the Grand how many cases of shells were unaccounted for

 

Gee, with the STATE being so broke, I wonder if they sold off some of the Trolleys to the local farmers for hay wagons ?

That would bring their inventory into the correct count the following year IF they sold them off wouldn't it ?

Just a hunch.