I understand that there a lot of names to pour through to select the All-Ohio team, but it never took this long before. By now there won't be anymore results to mull over, and if there are any scores missing, then that club should be fined for extremely late posts.
The All Ohio Team is normally determined by the Ohio ATA Delegate. I would encourage anyone interested in this year's All Ohio Team results to contact the Ohio ATA Delegate. For those interested in obtaining minutes from the OSTA meetings, please contact one of your Zone Directors to see if they can provide you with the minutes. Contact information for the Ohio ATA Delegate and all of the Ohio Zone Directors is available at www.ohiotrap.com. You will find phone numbers as well as email addresses for all members of the OSTA at their website. I agree with previous posters that the flow of information has become very slow.
Don, In reference to your statement...what reason would there be for the OH Team to not be selected by the Ohio ATA Delegate? As per contacting my Ohio Delegate, I can say I have had many emails not returned by my Ohio ATA Delegate. I cant remember one and I have sent many. Certainly not caused by you but to say information is slow makes me chuckle. I would say communication doesn't exist at that level. jmho. Tonya Blum, ironically, has been the best on that end. Public shout out to Tonya. You rock! Thanks for responding Don. We need you here.
Family Guy, There is no reason that I can think of for the All Ohio Team to be determined by anyone other than the Ohio Delegate. The Delegate obtains a list of every Ohio shooter and their averages directly from the ATA. From that database the top "combined" averages are computed then narrowed to those that met all the target and shoot requirements. I do not have any explanation for you as to why our Delegate has not responded to your emails, to me that is simply unacceptable. Please try calling the phone number listed for him. If that fails, please remember to hold him accountable come election time.
Great explanation to that subject Mr. Cogan. Almost all shooters will tell you "they don't care" or "I just want to shoot." I was one of those people. Great information.
There is one additional step that must have been added after I left the B.O.D. Apparently the OSTA is now requiring shooters to submit an application for themselves in order to be considered for the All Ohio Team. I would not have voted for that change. A shooter with a combined average of 85% could possibly make the team if shooters with higher averages don't submit an application. It's sad to see our All Ohio Team going in this direction.
On this subject I agree with Don.Quite a few years ago it was tried forcing shooters to apply if they wanted to be considered for the all Ohio team. It didn't work well then and I don't see why it should work any better now. At one period of time the All American team was a applied for team and that didn't work out well either. If you shoot the required number of targets to qualify you should not need to apply. My personal feelings is that this lessons the honor of being on the team. Just my opinion. Dave Berlet
Hi everyone! I can shed a little bit of light on the reason for the application change. With the actual information that has come down from the ATA it became extremely cumbersome for Roger to get the actual reports he needs to compile the list. From what I understand, spreadsheets were designed for this by our ATA delegates, but were either unused or came back corrupted. So the task was to compile a valid list out of every Ohio Shooter. It was presented that the shooters would know if they at least had the qualifications, and that would reduce the burden. If this happens to be incorrect, I apologize. We just had our January meeting, and I know we are dedicated to getting the minutes approved and posted quicker. Our priority had been the actual website, it was a wreck. As with every project there are bumps in the road, but we are proud of our new website that we hope to post content to. . Family Guy- thanks for the shout out. But....why is it ironic that I am the best communicator??? lol. Please know we really are doing our best to keep the OSTA rolling. Tonya Bluhm
Tonya, Before I answer, thanks for responding. My zone rep, that I pushed for, would not go so far. I thought he might be at least an average communicator or try to understand the issues. Fail on my part. Prior to your election, Doc was yapping as always. He liked this new gal Tanya. After your election, we were quizzing you about the target settings, speeds, and angles. You gave the wrong answer and Doc nearly collapsed at the table. We have been on Doc since that day. Your answer has haunted him. You are well liked here and LS is probably saying I told you so! Thanks
I just lost an 1/2 hour typing pointing out what happened and how things affected the ATA and it's decline, And how Tonya Bluhm and Roger McNamer was going to be a change in the correct direction, and why Charlie Pidcock was passed over. I could not get it back. GB..........................................DLS
It shouldn't be this difficult. There are 4 requirements now: 1) Shoot the zone shoot, 2) shoot the entire HAA at the state shoot, 3) meet the target requirements, and 4) apply. RJ Stuart posts the names of every shooter that competed in the HAA on their shoot results page, by category. Take those names and cross-correlate each one that has met the other three requirements. Shooters can be looked up in the ATA shooter information center database. Just type in the name. If they shot the weekend of the zone shoot, at one of the zone locations, then they meet that requirement. Then look at their target count for the year in the same ATA database. Do the math and figure out their composite average for the year. Finally, verify if they turned in an application (which is a ridiculous idea if you ask me). Granted, this will take a while and some elbow grease. But work on two categories a weekend and you're done in a month and a half.
Tonya, Thank you very much for taking the time to respond on this forum. Your participation here is greatly appreciated! I understand that gathering the information to formulate the All Ohio Team can be tedious. The requirement for a shooter to have shot in their Zone shoot has always been a tough one to verify. However, it has been done this way for years. With all the information we now have literally at our fingertips (computer) I just can't figure out why the application process is necessary. Making the selection process easier on our Delegate is a piss poor reason for requiring an application from the shooters. If our Delegates do not have the time or mental capacity to handle this task I will VOLUNTEER to do it for them. The All Ohio Team has not been announced so there is still time to get this right for this year. Please don't exclude our "Grandest" shooter from the list (a young man with better than a 95% composite average) just because he didn't know he needed to apply. We have all watched our ATA leadership attempting to eviscerate our sport's history and heritage with watered down trophy packages, endless categories, softer target presentations and on and on. Please help us keep the honor in making the All Ohio Team.
Don, I completely agree with your posts. I would also volunteer to help as well. I feel that the All OH Team should be Ohio's best shooters that meet the given requirements, not those that can first of all locate an application (recall the website was not working to get an app from). Sara Dean
Well, anytime I can haunt Gary Bryant is a win in my book! Just kidding, I have long considered Gary a friend. He never fails to make me laugh. LMAO at giving the "wrong" answers! As for not having the best shooters in Ohio on our All Ohio Team, I feel this has been the case for a long time. Some of our best shooters don't shoot the zone, they prefer to go to shoots that offer All American Points. This eliminates them from the field, I personally don't feel this is fair either, as it does not showcase our best shooters. We have Ohio All Americans who would meet the average requirements not on the ALL Ohio Team. I have not seen the reports that are used to determine the team, and when I was presented with the reason for the application, I voted for it. The application WAS a requirement, therefore by your statement, we have a team that meets the given requirements. I will not comment on anyone's mental capacity as I have the greatest respect for both Don and Sara, as people and as leaders who did the best they could when they served the OSTA. I will agree that I am somewhat out of my element, I have never had any experience running a shoot. What I do know, is that I love to shoot, and I love the people who shoot. I will not apologize for serving in the best way I can. I understand that we all cannot agree, and this doesn't bother me. I show up to the meetings, and I work my ass off at the state shoot. When I feel I can add something to the conversation, or offer some clarity, I will do so. I will strive to be honest and hardworking. Thanks! Tonya Bluhm
Tonya, First let me apologize to Roger our ATA Delegate for my poor choice of the words "mental capacity" in my post above. I was trying to convey that the information required is now available via the ATA's database and website however not everyone has the desire and/or computer skills required to access the information. After reading your last response I went back and proof read what I wrote and realized that it didn't read the way I had intended. Sorry Roger. As to your point regarding the requirement for shooters to compete in the HAA at the Zone shoots, I am in agreement with you. I believe the requirement was originally put in place to encourage shooters to attend their Zone shoots so that they could vote for Directors and receive information from the O.S.T.A. Board regarding potential amendments to the O.S.T.A. bylaws. Over the years our Zone shoots have dwindled down in attendance and there are other means for the B.O.D. to communicate with the shooters. I cannot blame shooters for electing to compete in neighboring State Shoots instead of their Zone shoot. Especially those shooters that have businesses that depend on trapshooter's patronage or those that are attempting to accumulate All American points. I believe you would receive a broad base of support if you proposed eliminating the Zone shoot requirement for the All Ohio Team. I would recommend maintaining the requirement to shoot the HAA at our Ohio State Shoot as well as the total target requirements. This change alone would make the selection process much easier to complete. I feel as you do that our All Ohio Team should showcase the best shooters in the state.
If our Delegates do not have the time ??? Then why would someone want to run in the first place ? When voting for a Delegate, first be sure he/she has he time to do the required work in the first place.
Looking at the list of State shoot dates available from the ATA website, there are only 8 held in May when the Zone shoots are occurring, and none of them are neighboring states. It seems to me that making the zone shoot part of the requirements for the state team should be okay. The zone shoots are a way to get people to spend at least a weekend at some of the local clubs (just like the Champion of Champion) vs going out of state to support those associations, or waiting for a shoot at the CC. If somebody elects not to attend a zone shoot, then not being qualified for the state team is on them. Plus, the opportunity to make the Zone teams and compete for some prize money at the state shoot is another nice reward for shooting at the zone shoots. And to make that fair, zone teams should be able to put in a ghost score when a team member doesn't show up for the state shoot. Everybody that shoots in our great state and pays any attention knows that there are certain requirements to make the state team. The one that doesn't make any sense is the application process, because as was stated above somebody will inevitably forget about the application.
Hello Tonya, If you would send a copy of the minutes to a moderator here, we would be happy to post them for you. You can PM a moderator here by "clicking" on their user name under the profile picture. Thanks
For those of you interested, the State teams are now posted on the website, as well as minutes from the January meetings. Congratulations to those who made it.
Ohio State Shooters should/must shoot THEIR zone shoot, not a zone shoot they do not qualify for. In the past some shooters shot different zone shoots, and were justly Disqualified. I believe all states have the same rules, and justly so. Yours in Sport Gary Bryant..................................Dr.longshot
Does the ATA report DEFINE their ZSONE SHOOT SCORES SEPERATELY, for QUALIFICATION? Yours in Sport Gary Bryant.....................................Dr.longshot
No, but it is as simple as cross-referencing the known dates of the zone shoots and the locations to know if someone shot them. And since all shooters' hometowns are listed with their membership, it can be determined if they shoot at the proper location for the zone they live in.
I think they should do away with the zone shoot as a qualification, With the month of may being the main planting season for farmers a lot are unable to attend.
I believe Bob brings up a good point as far as the dates of the zone shoots. Also it is my opinion that we definitely don't want an applied for state team. Dave Berlet
I think the ATA now has to plan the Zone shoot around Planting Season, and the GAH needs to be moved back after Harvest Season. It should not coincide with womens Fertility time, We do not want it to interfere with the Spring and Fall Turkey/ Deer Seasons, I do not see how we can make Trapshooting an non co-inciding Sport. Duh GB...................................DLS
You need to hover your mouse pointer over the About Us link on the left hand side. When the list appears, move your pointer over the list and click on All-Ohio Team. I would think something like that would have its own link on the front page, but I'm not the site designer.
MEN’S TEAM 96.49 Michael Wengerd* Sugarcreek 95.19 Robert Caplinger Waverly 95.18 Randy Wilhelm Sunbury 95.07 Steve Stedman East Palestine 94.60 Dirk Meckstroth New Knoxville 94.53 Patrick McCarthy Dalton 94.29 Will Guingrich Celina 85.61 George Kelly Granville LADY 1 TEAM 92.97 Summer Gobrecht* Findlay 91.90 Elaina McCarthy Dalton 90.14 Jennifer Schwartz Valley City LADY 2 TEAM 90.38 Peggy Wise McConnelsville 88.05 Carole Carney Poland SUB-JUNIOR TEAM 92.42 Brady Welsh* Waverly 91.38 Madison Pitstick South Solon 87.98 Ryan Denes Marengo 87.73 Andrew Bush Xenia 89.00 Walter Jewel Centerburg JUNIOR TEAM 94.43 Austin Jacob* Copley 93.71 Hunter Brandt Amherst 93.28 Travis Carlson Mt. Gilead 92.93 Ian Wilkshire Jr. Grafton 91.89 Rodd Spradlin Buckland JUNIOR GOLD TEAM 94.28 Ryan Minyo* Mt. Gilead 93.93 Justin Carson Mt. Gilead 92.79 Elizabeth Ternes Elyria SUB VETERAN TEAM 94.45 Dean Townsend* Thornville 93.70 Roger McNamer West Portsmouth 93.63 Steve Corwin Grove City 93.58 Rick Springer Wapakoneta 92.46 John Evick St. Clairsville VETERAN TEAM 95.86 Larry Sowers* Huber Heights 93.56 Craig Blank Xenia 92,54 Paul Marthey Apple Creek 92.53 Ron Charniga Bowling Green 92.17 Doug Gormley Wadsworth SENIOR VETERAN TEAM 92.93 Dave Berlet* New Knoxville 91.97 John Sayle East Liverpool 91.69 John Evans Jackson 91.68 Robert Zeinner Cincinnati 91.38 Richard Partin Perrysville OHIO’S GRANDEST SHOOTER Score 394 x 400 Joseph Charnigo
Harvey Mushman, I copied and pasted the All Ohio Team list directly from the O.S.T.A. website. In post #14 of this thread you will see that I made a plea to the B.O.D. to make the appropriate corrections before publishing the list. The B.O.D. has decided to stand firm on their decision regardless of the outcome. Please remember that our O.S.T.A. Secretary does not have a vote on any matter before the Board and she is obligated to accurately report exactly what the B.O.D. discusses and decides in their meetings. I am very happy to see that a good number of our Ohio "top shooters" did fill out the application and are listed on the team. Congratulations to all those shooters that have made this year's All Ohio Team!
Harvey, I tried to send you a PM but the system wouldn't allow me to. I wanted you to know that John Evick's combined average is actually 93.46 not the 92.46 that is posted on the All Ohio Team list. John was 5th on the list of Sub Vts. and you were 6th. That is some great shooting on your part! Good luck this year and I hope to see you at the Cardinal. Don
Interesting thread..... As you know Don, I have no dog in this hunt, but still like to hear what's going on, in the Great State of Ohio. An Ohio State Team without Joey Charnigo????? That's crazy!!! Not to take anything away, from any shooter that's in the running, as I believe Ohio might be, the most difficult State team to make. Lots of really good shooters up there. I don't know of anyone, in any State, that supports the "turn in your application" for the State team. I was talking with a wonderful shooter from the State of Texas, just yesterday about this subject. He stated, and I would support, that the First Team should NOT be a Men's team, but an "Open First Team". Thus, putting the Top Guns in the first five/ten spots, no matter if your a man, woman, sub-this, or in the womb that. Matt Nicol
Doc, I'm only guessing here but it would seem that the new application requirement might be doing what we who oppose it thought it would. Those that had the numbers may not have turned in an application, thus did not make the team. I cannot explain how Joe was not listed on the team. With a 95% composite average, he easily qualified. Perhaps he was another victim of the Application rule as well.
Just change the name of the honor to "The All Ohio Team that sent in an Application". And Zimmie, I would be in favor of "The All Ohio Farmer Team", no application required. Maybe get T-Shirts made?
Would you base the winner on how well they shoot or farm? 150 bushel corn? 200 bushel corn? 60 bushel beans? 50?
Farmer Gold! I love that one! The year the ATA added all the categories I went to the Great Lakes Grand. The fellow working the classification desk asked me if I had a category to declare. I told him I was a "Sub Gold Junior Vet - Large division". He asked if that was a new category and I told him no, but I figured if the ATA could just make $hit up so could I. Fortunately for me I knew the classifier so I didn't get tossed out of there! The really sad part about the application process for the All Ohio Team is the B.O.D. was told that the information coming from the ATA was insufficient to calculate the team with accuracy. Those of you that know me will agree that I am not an ATA apologist. However, in this case I do not see where it is the ATA's responsibility to generate a report for the All Ohio Team or any other State Team. Each State has their own set of requirements and that is not something that the ATA office should need to concern themselves with. By simply using the HAA report for our Ohio State Shoot (directly from RJ Stuart) at least 60% of the work in generating the Team is done for you. If a shooter is not on the HAA report, they don't qualify for the team as shooting the championship 400 targets is a requirement. The HAA report also indicates a shooters category so there is no need to try to figure out which category a shooter belongs in. It is pretty simple to look up on the ATA's website to check to see if the shooter shot the 400 targets at their Zone Shoot. All this could be done shortly after our State shoot is over. Then it is just a matter of waiting until all targets have been posted for the target year and plugging in averages and target totals to verify minimums have been met. No special information is required from the ATA office.
Don, I wholeheartedly agree with you. That is exactly the way I feel about it. I happened to go through the process for my own benefit. Of course I could not include the application requirement because I do not have access to that, but everything else it readily available as you stated. It was interesting to see a few names not on the team this year that would have been if not for requiring an application.
James344, You wouldn't by any chance be referring to these fellows: Joe Charnigo - 95.04% Tate Hedrick - 94.29% Ron Smith - 93.73% Some pretty tough shooters right there!
I had the honor of serving as my State's ATA Delegate over 10 years ago and the selection of State Teams was one of my duties. So, I'd like to offer my thoughts on this issue, hoping only to be helpful. Don Cogan is absolutely right in his support for State/Provincial association managerial rights and the ATA has always correctly held the view that associations should control trapshooting matters within their territory. Several weeks after the end of the shooting year (when all shoot reports had been received and recorded), the ATA sent a package containing all the averages in each discipline, for shooters within my State, to our association secretary and me as delegate. If I recall correctly, they even provided other lists by category to assist us. Independently, we created our own list of teams and then compared them. When we were in agreement that our computations were correct, I first sent out a congratulatory letter with a few personal comments to each team member. I wanted them to learn of their official selection from me first. It's not a difficult process and you're only looking at the shooters within the top group by their singles, handicap and doubles average which is right there at the top of each ATA list and then computing their overall average. All is needed is to verify their eligibility requirements, which in my State were target participation of 2500 singles, 1500 handicap and 1000 doubles as well as the requirement of competing in the 3 State championship events. The ladies only had to register 2000 singles, 1000 handicap and 500 doubles. Requiring State/Provincial Zone Shoot participation as well as the submission of an application are both detrimental to the true purpose for this recognition. These requirements usually reject some of the best overall shooters and should never be utilized. Certainly there must be a target requirement and I support the requirement of shooting the 3 annual championship events. However, I can tell you I didn't feel prideful when I made our State's First Team, knowing that better shooters who would normally be on the list were not eligible because an illness or family emergency kept them from competing in one, two or all of the championship events. I knew they would have been in attendance if they could have, that they were better shooters than me, and that the team listed was not the finest shooters in my State. I've always supported a waiver but I know it would/could pose some difficulties for administration purposes. And, I was always in the minority for my position. In my view, Ohio would be wise to abandon the application and zone participation obligations. HB
Kenny and Don, back in the day, when I shot a lot, some years I would be on the men's first all american team but not on the state team because I would shoot the Missouri State shoot instead of the Ohio zone shoot. It was a choice I made knowing the rules. I never really cared about it because I'd made the decision. Saying that with the way the Ohio Zone shoots have become phone in and poorly attended I would hope the osta would drop the zone shoot requirement. Picking by averages alone doesn't tell the true story of any shooter's year either but it's about the only way to pick a team. Getting on the first one or two teams meant a lot back then but after a few years it didn't mean so much to me. When Lucky was on the EC he asked me one year why I didn't "apply" for the all american team, he told me I had the 3rd or 4th (can't remember) most points and if I'd sent in I'd have made the "team". I asked him if he knew that why wasn't I on anyhow? The truth was that by then I was sick of the ATA BS and didn't care. Brad
Brad could it possibly be that as you are approaching senior citizenship age that you may actually be starting to have an attitude? I tried as hard as I could to keep this from happening. I dearly hope that I haven't failed. LOL Dave Berlet
