Perazzi Problem never seen before

I had a law enforcement officer in this afternoon with his Perazzi MX2000 that had its top lever stuck in the open position. I assumed a good cleaning and a new release button would fix it - WRONG.

Upon disassembly, and as I removed the firing pins and springs, the bottom firing pin had HALF of one side of it broken off. I'll post a photo of it tomorrow as I am now taking it easy this evening.

I absolutely detest two-piece firing pins and will only sell then when a customer demands it.

Anyway, I absolutely cannot see the sizeable broken part in the receiver, and have to think the chunk of metal is down inside the receiver and stopping the top lever from closing. I've had it in the vibrasonic cleaner for an hour or so, hit it with high pressure air, and smacked it with a plastic hammer in every possible orientation, all to no avail.

I hate to have to bust out the top lever to get this gun fixed - that'd be expensive and top levers are now hard to come by from Perazzi. I had to write Roberta Perazzi several months ago to get some here in the US.

This gun was one of those "$16,500" ATA guns that belonged to a past president (prefer not to identify), but now owned by a LE person. I normally do not charge any labor to LE guys, but this one may be different. He wants to sell it for $12,000 (high I think) but has beautiful wood.

WW

 

Had this happen to a friend of mine a number of years ago.The back section literally shattered.The top lever would not move.Fortunately a night in the parts washer broke it loose.I decided it was a good time to purchase a one piece pin from Laibs.

 

At around midnight last night was back at the shop; was challenged to get this fixed. I could move the top lever about an 1/8", and after a long soak in the vibrasonic cleaner with hot lacquer thinner, I got lucky.

It wasn't easy, but holding the lever open as far as I could get it, I rapped the receiver in above every direction I could. A small piece came out, and then later, the largest piece (see second photo) was wedged between the action block and the underside of the opening in the receiver on the carpeted bench. With a magnet (several times), and a dentist's pick, I ever so slowly "roledl" the piece out to where the magnet attempted to latch onto it. Wala: I was then able to remove the top lever and action block.

This gun was full of rust too. I can't believe anyone would not at the very least hit annually remove the butt-stock and oil the innerards of of the receiver with Rem Oil or the like, or use a pen applicator.

Anyway, all is done this morning.



WW

 

I have several two piece firing pins. would you recommend not using them?

 

Yes, I recommend NOT using them, or use them but keep a damn watchful eye of the rear of each one at the end of a day's shooting. Be a shame to waste new firing pins. When you put your gun away at the end of the day's shooting, always remove the trigger, release the hammer(s) and look things over, and give it a shot or two of Rem Oil or the like.

I sold a new MX14 combo to my shooting squadmate Dave K living 90 miles south of me in NE. It was not 6 month old, when he was having light hits on the primer.

He brought it up to me to look at, and his bottom two-piece firing pin was separating; the hard inner part was sliding down inside the outer housing. In fact, the photo on my website is HIS actual firing pin. I was so shocked because it was a new gun, and the pin was separating. If it separated too far down, you'll have a heck of a time opening the gun. In fact, some guys have had to remove the forearm and barrel *gently* to get the gun open.

The only draw back from the one-piece hard pin is that you cannot "dry-fire" the gun. Well, one shouldn't do that anyway.

I often, when walking to the line, bend down and grab a spent once-fired hull, put it in my gun, and while holding the receiver to my ear, gun pointed up, pull the trigger. In doing this, I then know for certain the gun: (1) was not put in "safe" by someone handling my gun, and (2) I know the first shot will fire. Some folks would have a cow doing this, but here in the Midwest we don't over-reach with these kinds of things like this, and shucking hulls, and loading our guns after the guy to the right has shot, and then wait AND NOT RAISE OUR GUN until it is our time to shoot. We're pretty common sense out here in the Dakotas.

I have shot way, way too many 99's in singles because of missing the first bird out for one reason or another. I did that TWICE at the Grand: missed first target and ran the rest. Talk about being stupid, that was me. I just try to eliminate the negative as much as I can.

WW

 

I should probably add the following comment.

I sell Perazzi parts all over the world and have for nearly 40 years, every day to countries permitting their import. However, once last summer I got a nasty call from a Perazzi owner in Wisconsin who told me that I had mailed him the new one-piece firing pins and he was pissed. He wanted the two-piece pin. What he didn't know is what I described above. I tried to explain it to him, but he'd have nothing to do with that. I'm sure some shooter and ignorant gunsmith told him stories. I told him I'd guarantee them for a year, or if he'd send them back, I would replace them with the two-piece pins at no charge. He wanted nothing to do with that either.

He did say is that he would do his best to ruin my business and reputation because of what I did. You know, I'd bet the guy probably owns a gun he can't afford, and is a D-20 shooter; nothing against D-20 folks, but they've just not been "around the block" much. Normal folks just don't act like that. I had some words on the end of my tongue, but I took the high road, as my wife calls it. Taking that road is difficult for me. When someone jumps down my throat, I just don't back up very easily. I spent too many years as a school administrator having to listen to A/H parents who were helicoptering their child who was in trouble, by just smiling, saying very little, except to invoke discipline.

I've replaced broken one-piece pins before, knowing full well that they broke most likely from dry firing, but I never say anything, except to say you'll have a replacement in the mail on me.

 

Whiz: That is very Fair Customer Service you have. I know about the 2 piece firing pins that perazzi uses, I just could not Fathom the reason of Mfg. A possible defect to happen down the road.

Whiz's Customer Service is the best, whether it's Perazzi or Ponsess Warren, I want shooters to know that, Thank You.

Whiz do you know why they use a 2 piece Firing pin?

 

Gary: I have no clue why the two piece, other than the one piece is susceptible to breaking when it is dry-fired. I suspect even the two-piece is equally as susceptible, and/or Perazzi doesn't have to be too concerned with hardness.

Incidentally, UPS is picking up your box of goodies later today. I put in a couple of little extra items you may like and use.

Whiz

 

Thanks again, Whiz I may be interested in a used PW loader, when I sell my MEC8567 Grabber..
I have had 4 PW loaders in the past, and a New Silver/Black Ser# was 1970 I cannot remember the Model # I think it was a PW-800-?? I bought from a dealer in McConnelsville, Ohio
Gary

 

I don't very often deal in used unless I know the machine and it is a current model such as the 800 Plus.

Whiz

 

I thought/read somewhere, that the reason for the two piece firing pin was to reduce wear to the receiver. What are your thoughts on this Whiz.

 

If you think about it, how possibly could a two-piece firing pin reduce wear?

Consider the fact that the hardened one-piece pin has a much smoother finish and, as it slides back-and-forth, there would be less wear as compared to the not-as-smooth finish on the softer two-piece. But, really, either one would never cause excessive wear... maybe some after about 2,000,000 rounds or so.

In my 40 years of Perazzi repair work, the ONLY excessive wear I have seen is when someone uses a current design bottom barrel firing pin in conjunction with an old style RH hammer with its web intact. This causes the oblong "hogging-out" because the web also strikes the RH side of the firing pin as the hammer hits the back of the firing pin, or someone has changed the face angle of the striking surface in an effort to save money instead of replacing a worn hammer.

THAT causes excessive wear on the left side of the F/P hole.

WW

 

I hope Whiz doesn't mind me changing the subject, still Perazzi though. Late production DB81, only using bottom barrel. About 10,000 rounds of reloads with Cheddite primers. Breech face at bottom FP hole cratered. Moot point now as I have gone to Winchester primers and after 5,000 I see no further wear, but it may have stopped anyway if still using Cheddite. Experiences?

 

No problem.

 

I used to see this "cratering" on many of the old TM guns and on some of the older Perazzi guns such as the DB, etc.

I am no metallurgist, so I can't address what, if any, metal compositions these guns used for receivers.

What I do know is that, if in the reloading process, one does not seat the primer flush with the base of the brass, this seems to give rise to cratering.

I could never use Cheddites or Nobel Sports because they were/are a tad bit over-sized, and don't like going into the brass as easily. Consequently, when one would reload American primers, and then switch to either of these two brands, the primers did not seem to seat deeply enough. Then shooting them started to create the cratering process.

Honestly, I tossed about 4900 of the Nobel Sports into the garbage. I was not going to use them because of the above and because once inserted in a hull, the pocket is swaged more open. This, then, makes you continue to use the same primer or the American primer will fall out.

WW

 

I would almost bet that the shooter was shooting Cheddite primers in either Reloads or New ammo. Every fringe pin I have broken or seen broken was on a Cheddite primer

Tom

 

I totally agree with you, Tom.

We tend to save dimes at the cost of dollars.

Whiz