Who keeps track of the numbers at the Grand and why?

I read some think it is plausible the ATA and or WSRC directors may not know the numbers of participants at the shoot. The lease between the groups states otherwise.

In the lease 5.4

DNR shall assess a fee of $3.00 per even per participant at the ATA Grand American.............
Participant fees shall be collected by the ATA and remitted to the DNR no later than September 30 following the Grand American with a complete accounting to include a list of events and a list of participants in each event.

 

As I said, play dumb if anyone asks.

 

Merlo,

Would you have any information as to just how many entrants for the last three grands were paid for ???

I would have to assume since the Trap and Field is the ATA's OFFICIAL magazine, the 58,000+ figures would be what the IDNR would be going by.

IF I were an IDNR official, and read these numbers, I would be curious also IF my department ONLY got paid for 30,000+ entrants.

Looks to me like someone smarter than me would to do some digging.

Just curious.

 

You honestly believe that Brad's friend? I would think IDNR has people at the grand reviewing the activity in real time, and that they also receive event by event counts from the ATA, and compare the two themselves. I doubt they wait for ATA to present a multi-year summary sometime after the Grand.

 

Bat,

I have read a number of your entries where you question everyone that does not go along with the ATA party line. You should maybe give it a rest and just see where it all comes out. Everyone on here knows that you are tight with the ATA and what ever they (the ATA)make available to the members is accurate and truthful.

 

One person named Monica? But, you say you are not sure. And Monica said, "they would have no way of knowing. They don't keep track of that. That is an ATA thing."
----------------

The forum would be a lesser place without Bat.

 

oldphart, not really, I think it's just that on this site the majority of posters seem bloodthirsty for anything against the ATA. I enjoy ATA shooting, but have made it clear that I am extremely disappointed in many of the poor decisions, almost inept administrative performance etc. I personally find that many of the anti-ATA posts here are not really accurate (that is just my opinion). This spreadsheet issue is one, and it is clearly not accurate as far as entries go, I never said that. The spreadsheet math is correct though, you have to understand they are not one and the same.

Other topics are more interesting. I'm still waiting for Merlo's staff to release some of the 1,000 pages they received of the AG's investigation. Nothing from the actual investigation paperwork released so far other. But the building issue holds some interest.

In this case, anyone that is even modestly familiar with Excel would recognize that it was simply an oft-seen error that happens when you modify a spread-sheet and are not careful about existing formulas.

FG, I'm not sure cause I don't work for the IDNR. That said, there is no way they are not monitoring those numbers themselves independently of the ATA. I don't know what Monica is aware of, but I don't believe she cares at all what the ATA prints in T&F. I think she's just frustrated with her phone ringing so much over such a nonsensical issue.

 

The phone was only answered once. Then no more rings. If you want those rings to go away you answer the phone, say something plausible and move on.

 

What was the exact numbers on that poll? Not sure I was asked?

Nonsensical? Person in charge of marketing the WSRC not knowing whether there were 30,000 shooters or 2800 or whether there were 30,000 entries or close to 60,000 is nonsensical.

 

They know the correct numbers. The nonsensical thing is thinking that summary in T&F means anything to them.

 

Who thinks that is plausible?

 

The numbers are Pathetic at best, no one would want to admit to them when they are talking about the grand or what used to be the grand ... The ATA has arrived at numbers as well as generated income to the local and region in and about Sparta, Ill that would be impossible to reach when they cannot even muster 2,000 entries in any one event .. . Lynn (The Talking Head ) Gipson boasts about generated income of 20/30 million dollars as if it was a fact and it is nothing close ... The State of Illinois you can bet knows the numbers if they admit it or not ... The ATA stated 30,000 shooters with 15,000 staying on sight in 1,000 camping spots (HUH..?) , if that is for realy it had to look like a refugee camp filled with Obama's Homies ... The numbers per event is (was ) listed on the Shootata website and they are no where close to it being a grand anything ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

So .... ONLY "Bat" can post such "anti-ATA" things as these, and NOT BE called a "whiner", "anti-ATA", and ALL the OTHER unkind things the Kool Aid Crew wants to post.

Who'da Thunk it .......

 

All anyone has to do is look at each event, write down the entries, and at the end of last event total the entries, and Multiply that by $3.00 and you have that dollar amount that goes to IDNR, But IDNR also gets money for other entities

GB.................................DLS

 

Though nothing has been said or posted, the ATA had to cover all 1000 camping spots sold or not, so 15,000 shooters could stay close (on sight) in case they wanted to enter any event's which obviously they didn't or there would of been more than 2,000 shooters in at least one event ... The utilities no doubt had to be part of the lease agreement because water, sewer, electric, state workers to make sure the place was kept up to standards, pullers, loaders, targets, trinkets, trophy's, golf carts, port "O" Potties, water coolers with iced down water etc had to be covered (paid for ) by someone ... If anyone thinks for one second this was a cheap event to host and present, they have another think coming ... One has to seriously consider the State of Illinois standing back and not taking any recourse for any or all cost that was related to the grand being held in Sparta, Ill being as the State is still in a budget crunch ... The ATA is not going to post the Pathetic numbers for all to see, this would be an admission to failure, but you can bet if it would of been a success they would be boasting with I told you so's and have banners flying for all to see ... The grand is and has been a failure for all the years since it was relocated to Illinois, (Sparta) , thus proving it was a move based on the ATA being desperate for a place to hold the gala event, the ATA was advised of this before making the choice to make the move ... The EC, BOD, Lynn (The Talking Head ) Gipson, and CHC will never admit to it being a failure so they will have to come up with seriously strained numbers or be subject to the I told you so's they rightfully deserve ... Time to take the TRASH out and get some people involved who have Integrity, Honor, Common sense, logic, and honesty as part of their make up .. WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

From what I hear the electric bill is paid up except for the $22K billed for September. Wonder where the money came from to pay off their delinquent electric bill?

A payment of $192,156.09 was sent to Egyptian Electric before the August invoice was mailed and another $148,570.03 was paid before the September invoice was mailed. Somewhere the IDNR found $340,723.12.

Dysinger, . . . . . . . . correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to recall Ms. Monica Brackman stating that the only expense she was permitted to make was for the payment of employee wages. Maybe Governor Rauner softened up some.

Also hear the water & sewerage bill is paid up. WSRC must be racking in the dough!

HB

 

Thats a lot of Taco's man and a bag of chips ... The ATA claimed to have numerous Co Sponsors, someone paid the bills and nothing has been posted to date ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Hmmmm. I get the vibe. So maybe, just maybe the EC paid a few hundred thousand for an electric bill that was not theirs? That would be a big leap. But it is a question needing asked.

 

For one year, or the remaining "life of the lease" ????? If "they" paid "in advance" the "payment" would be much higher.

Makes One wonder about things like "camping lease money" and "inflated numbers", that may come from the shooters living in "Miscellaneous" and other "Excel errors" .....

What "other topics" "Bat" ?????? The main "topic" is the "ATA" corruption by "It's" foolish leaders .....

 

Not really sure about the camping leases being as nothing has been said and or posted, this year it was all covered by the ATA and there were over 150 spots not leased or accounted for based on the information i got from someone who was there ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Great to "see" you back WPT ...... a much better place with you here ......

What a shame the "ATA" feels the need to do everything in the shadows ...... Get better, it looks to be a "fun" winter in cyber-land ......

 

Certainly one of our astute Delegates will or has already asked the question. Although they didn't seem to know the ATA rented the camp sites, paid the IDNR in advance and had 25 sites given to the ATA for free each year until they read it on this Fourm. Then they still thought that information was bogus, until some asked to receive a copy of the lease agreement to see it for themselves. And then, they still stayed silent.

Even with the sneaky 2012 Pull LLC deal involving some of our ATA leadership and members, I still don't believe that the Executive Committee would provide the funds to pay the IDNR's $340K delinquent electric bill without first asking for approval by the Board of Directors. Of course, admittedly, I could be mistaken.

From what I hear, it appears the two payments did come from the IDNR. Perhaps they used the money the ATA is required to pay prior to the Grand American tournament to rent the campground.

 

Hmmmm ..... https://www.dnr.illinois.gov/recreation/WSRC/Pages/CampingWSRC.aspx ..... says $25. $20. $10. per day for "camping" ..... NOT $29.70 $25.20 $18.00

They list 170, 171, 350, 310 "sites" for a total of 1001 ..... at the "price" in "History Buff's" post, it would be $24,527.70 per day, making "15 days" have a total of $367,915.70 .....

The "25 free sites" would be $742.50 per day, $11,137.50 for "15 days" ..... bringing $367,915.70 down to $356,778.20 ...... AND THEN, "Somewhere the IDNR found $340,723.12" .....Hmmmmm

 

User 1,

I should have also mentioned that the IDNR gets 20 free camp sites each GAH tournament period so that will adjust your figures downward a little more.

​

HB

 

How about $347,868.20

45 total "free sites" should be $20,047.50 worth of "free" ...... at the "lease rate" ......

 

Hmmm ..... the "ATA" gets "25 STANDARD sites" ..... so adjust $1687.50 for a total of $349,555.70 .....

The IDNR gets "20 Premium sites" and the "ATA" gets "25 Standard sites" ..... must make sense to someone .....

 

I sure as hell hope the ATA didn't have to pay for the Free sites given to the IDNR !!!

That would be like them though not to catch that 20 premium sites, and just pay for them...

The ATA not only would be paying for those sites, BUT also loose the revenue from those 20 Premium Sites.

Just have to wait til the end of the year when we can see the P & Ls that the ATA may send out to those Delegates that so diligently monitor all of the financial dealings of OUR organization.

What a mess !

 

I'm not sure the ATA had much choice in the matter, The State of Illinois has the facility and the ATA needs or needed a place to go ... Based on those facts the State can set the guide lines and make the rules, the ATA has little or no choice in the matter, accept them or don't and then not have a place to hold the shoot ... If you have nothing to hid, hide nothing once again applies, I do not see any of the Boasters or any of the kool aid crew saying how great it was or how great it turned out for all involved ... Sooner or later the facts (or at least something ) will have to be presented to the members and they can like it or not and it will not matter ... The ATA is the ATA's biggest enemy ... The by laws of the ATA say they are able to make expenditures of and up to $50,000 , there is no doubt the cost related far exceeded $50,000, by how much is any body's guess ... WPT ... (YAC) ...