ATA Lies about number of competitors. 30,000

I just came across this. Just a reader until now.

The number of competitors is now up to 30,000 at Sparta. This is the number told to WSIL TV.

30,000 COMPETITORS

THIRTY THOUSAND ! THIRTY THOUSAND! THIRTY THOUSAND!

http://www.wsiltv.com/story/32697498/grand-american-trap-shoot-brings-economic-boost

 

They also said that by the 5th of August tens of thousand of people had already arrived.

TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE HAVE ARRIVED!

 

I called WSIL and the person at the news desk (male voice) was very embarrassed. He was especially embarrassed when he found out the ATA did not have 30,000 shooters. I told him we used to have close to 100,000.

He said he was going to change the story asap. He implied Roni, the reporter is not an expert on trapshooting. He was also shocked at the number that was reported as being in town on the 5th.

 

Thanks for heads up. Interesting read. They also said they would spend $20 million while there.

 

I am heading home. I heard the elusive merlo was here. See you at the Cardinal Classic.

 

The report is off by a gigglebyte or 2.

Not that numbers are important.

 

The News Media can make a rain drop appear to be a hurricane with rain coming down in buckets ... This is what they do, that actually seldom have any knowledge of what they are talking about yet they spread the news as if its based on fact ... I got a call from a friend who is in Sparta, was told the over all numbers are down but he was not sure just how much but he would call me sometime today if he gets a chance with an up date ... He did say the scores were actually good, weather hot and humid, but not overly crowded ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Even "Sparta" couldn't handle 6000 full squads.

120 traps at 4 squads per hour would be 480 per hour .... If the "News" had a clue, "reporting" would look much different.

 

I no more than post on another thread and the phone rings, a friend of mine who is in Sparta went and got the over all numbers for entry's (not verified) and he came up with (drum roll please) ...... Total number of entry's up to and including event #20 is (Tada) ... 22,869 @ $3 per for the State of Illinois for a grand (mini grand ) total of $68,607 which won't cover the electric being used ... Pathetic at best, and nothing that could or would give the State of Illinois any reason to look forward to the future ... If my calculations are right, each shooters (attendee) will have to spend $10,000 each to reach the projected $20,000,000 land fall that the news is broadcasting ... WPT ... (YAC) ...


Re Posted from another thread ...( 15 minutes later ) ...

 

There is the "camping fees" .... whatever that may be, and who gets what ....

 

I have no idea how many total camping spaces they have but seem to recall that the ATA took control of that end of the show ... He said there are several to many open spots in the camp ground (he drove around ) but didn't give me a number ... His fee went up to $650.00 for the big (little ) show for the 10 days, can stay 2 days after its all over ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I read something that said the "ATA" paid for the entire campground, then rented it to members .... don't know ....

Here is some fun information ..... http://fox2now.com/2016/08/10/trapshooting-championship-being-held-in-sparta-il/

 

The most entrys in any one event I was told is 1828, so 30,000 is obviously a grossly inflated number ... Sorry, I missed that but it was part of my notes ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

User, you are correct !

ATA paid the State for the camping rights, and took over the campsites and rentals...I don't have the exact figures but I am sure History Buff has them.

Gee, I guess we can all put our fears that Sparta will not be there for long...With these numbers, it is a sure thing for many, many years to come.

Now, onward and upward !

With 30,000 competitors and @$20,000,000 income how can Sparta ?lose

 

The reporter said the info came from the ATA.

 

That was up to and including Event #20, do not have the figures past that but expect a phone call with the up dates ... Unlike the local new reporters who make claims of over 30,000 shooter I try to be a little more accurate ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Think they have flash flood warnings for Sat...interesting how that plays into the equation.

 

With numbers that are the same as the Korean War a flash flood of shooters is what they need.

 

The ATA Kool Aid Crew can have "Sparta", shotguns, and All American points .... they are not going to give in ....

But there is a different problem with this "reporting" .... "History Buff" et al use published material to show the rich "history" of Trapshooting .... That makes what is going on now in the "media" a shame. Many will "quote" this type of "reporting" as a "true" reflection of the events. That is a shame and should deserve some type of correction.

"Enjoy Our History" .... if it is accurate ....

 

Enjoy .... http://www.wsiltv.com/story/3274170...a-for-amateur-trapshooting-world-championship

"I shoot TRAPS"

 

I read now that the shoot brings in 12 million dollars...

Huh, earlier I read 20 million...

That's quite a difference.

Makes me wonder what the final number will come to.

 

what year(s) did the ATA have nearly 100,000 shooters?

 

Taking the numbers into consideration each attendee has to spend approx $6,000 each to make the 12 Million dollar mark ... Things must of changed drastically, I don't know any shooters who would spend that amount of money to attend any shoot ... Hell, if they raised the price of targets by $1 per hundred they would threaten to quit ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Iowa Guy.... we had close to 100,000 members in the early 80's.

 

WSIL took down the report. Tooo many phone calls I think. Could be WSIL has more integrity than the person(s) that fed them the crapola.

 

Thanks. I went and looked in my old average books. Unfortunately I have a gap from 75-86 ( not sure where those went).

For many years the average book reported both total members and active members. Active was defined as anyone that participated in a shoot.

In 1987 they were 97,060 and 36,568 respectively.
In 1994 they were 102,000 and 54,686 ( this is the last year total membership was reported).

The active members chugged along at approximately 55,000 for several years (55,451 in 2000) then dropped to 33,625 in 2001.

Interestingly, the total targets shot only dropped from 85,968,505 to 84,807,975.

So, even though I have a gap in the records the peak of ATA membership appears to have been between 1994 and 2000.

 

I think, if you look at those years active members was reported about 20K to high. In reality it did not drop from 55k to 33k. It has been talked about before, why the numbers where listed 20k higher than they were, hasn't been answered.

 

The ATA claimed 100,000 + shooters and visitors to the representatives from Illinois when they came to Vandalia, which we all know was grossly over estimated but is was so crowded it might of appeared to be a lot more than were actually on the grounds ... This was probably done to entice the State to build the now famous hole that sucks money from the State on and annual basis ... The claims of 30,000 shooters again is grossly over estimated or they surely would of had 2,000 or more entry's in any one event (event 21 had 1937) which is the most in any one event so far this year for a total number of entry's up to and including event #22 of 26,398 so the Prelim and grand American handicap needs to produce 2,000 plus shooters in each event to make a total of 30,000 shooters for the entire shoot ... The State of Illinois is going to take another hit and add to its deficit unless someone covers the accumulated expenses on the States behalf ... I was told by someone who is there that the camping area has not been filled up for the entire shoot so that in itself is costly to someone ... Build it and they will come ..? This is truly sad ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

We need the tax dollars. The ATA tells a little fib and maybe Rauner will invest money in us.

 

FYI .... I called WSIL. They were clearly told 30,000 competitors. They were told half of them (15,000) were staying at the campsite. Newsroom said they were not told "entries".

A statement like that could get more tax dollars.

 

I don't see how they got the numbers so messed up.

The below is from the 2006 Grand American Handicap program book.

​

And here's an article about the World Shooting Complex that appeared in Outdoor Illinois in August 2006. It provides a lot of details about the expected attendance, the $13.5 million the facility expects to generate annually, and camping spaces.











Judge for yourselves just how accurate the predictions were.

Enjoy Our History !

 

Their reports on how many people and how much money SHOULD have started with....

Once upon a time......


That's how most fairy tales start

 

Looking at that picture of the big day blago was there I was thinking, wonder if someone from the power company was in the crowd that day.

 

WOW,

15,000 in the camp sites ????

 

The claims and numbers these people come up with sound more and more like Hillary Clinton giving a speech ... They cannot think anyone with half a brain believes any of this crap they publish ..? Thank you HB, for facts and the elimination of fiction one more time ... You are the man .... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

May as well post some more facts as reported by those who are in a position to know. You can find the below in the Executive Committee Minutes of August 3, 2015 :

​

By the way, does anyone have any information about the unpaid water & sewer bills for the World Shooting and Recreational Complex?

I also understand that the IDNR must also make an annual contribution of over $400,000 to the City of Sparta in a payment schedule from 2007 through 2025. I've never heard of this being mentioned in any previous discussion regarding the profits, losses or economic impact to the area. The below is in the lease between IDNR and Sparta.

Perhaps we are not supposed know or ask questions about any of these things. Sorry!

​

 

The truthful and honest way to announce Attendance is take the entries of the Largest Event which is the Singles Championship or the Grand American Handicap.

Sometimes the Singles Championship is Greater than the Grand American Handicap.

This year 2016 it was almost 1800 entries, a far cry from 30,000, from which the ATA must answer to, to the State Of Illinois, and the City of Sparta.

Exaggerations of this Magnitude is totally Unethical and outright Lying.

Yours in Sport
Gary Bryant............................................Dr.longshot

 

HB !

You must be on the "Need to Know" basis also...

Glad you can join me...LOL
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
HB says:

Perhaps we are not supposed know or ask questions about any of these things. Sorry!

ANNUAL PAYMENT - IDNR To City of Sparta.jpg

 

Does anyone have the Exact Number of shooters that Attended the SCTP / AIM National Championships at the Cardinal?


GB....................................DLS

 

I got a call early this morning with the estimated number of camping spots that were not in use ... I was told, (not verified) that of 1000 camping spots 847 were being used, so someone had to pay for the differential of 153 camping spots ... I got this information from a friend who was there and have not tried to verify it, I am not going to count the list the ATA has posted on the site so take it for what its worth ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Maybe a HERD of Ants invaded the WRSC

 

The IDNR doesn't care, they got all their money from the ATA.

Any spots that were not sold is the ATA's cost.

Will be interesting to see some final figures this year.

Feel the pain yet ?

 

total payments almost $8,833,679.00

 

I think I will buy several x-tra large jars of Vaseline for the EC to let it slide in easy as they are bent over.

GB.................................DLS

 

Yeppers, the IDNR makes more profit when the campsites are not full. They sites are paid for before the shootin starts by the ATA. "All of them paid for." It is part of the magical lease.

I think the camping leases end this year tho.

 

I just had to find out what and where they came up with 30,000 shooters....

I believe I found the answer !!!

2016 preliminary week total shooters from the 14 events was...ta-da

14,324

GRAND WEEK TOTAL shooters for all events was...TA-DA

15,529

TOTAL EVENT SHOOTERS = TA-DA

29,853

Well, this may solve part of that mystery...To the unknown reader of those articles this is an impressive amount.

But to those who know how to work the numbers, well ?

 

Brad's Friend....

That number 30,000, was reported on the 2nd day. Shoots down your theory. The number 30,000 was given to Roni of WSIL TV early on the 2nd preliminary day. The 30,000 number represented competitors already there.

The ATA had them publish the number. I called WSIL six times to confirm that number. The reporter was Roni. Also confirming the chain of events was Evie.

The story said 15,000 of the shooters already there, on the second day, were supposedly staying at the campgrounds.

This will get the ATA more tax dollars.

 

The ATA ED, EC, and many of the BOD cannot accept the fact they now belong in the "Has Been": column ... The attendance has been and continues to drop off each and every year yet the claims of generated income remain the same as does the number or shooters in the area or on the grounds (15,000/30,000) ... The worlds biggest shoot (the grand) could not produce 2,000 entry's in any one event which is more than pathetic by any standards ... They always say "No news" is Good News" and there has been no news since the grand finished so it must of exceeded every ones expectations even being as pathetic as it was ... I have not heard anything from any of the Kool aid crew but my sources are rather limited these days, although based on fact rather than desire ... The numbers will no doubt be posted someplace sooner or later, then it will be time for a good laugh and a few "I told you so's" ... The ED, EC, and some of the BOD should be proud of what has been done to a once great organization ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

A very good poster and friend on here called me this morning.

Amoung the 133 minute conversation was the 15,000 people in the camp ground(and 30,000 competitive shooters) in attendance.

I told my friend I would have loved to see the 1,000 camping spots filled with 15,000 camping people ! Just didn't add up !?!?!?!?!!!

I guess we pee-ons are supposed to be stupid people with minimal education, and keep our heads in the sand.

"A Basket of Deplorables" is what I believe we were called by Hillary recently.

 

I agree with one of the posters above that the gross numbers were given to get tax dollars from the state. The place needs big $$$$$. Welfare for those that own $300,000 motor homes. Great work if you can get it.

 

TTT
Appropriate considering T and F thread.

 

Would this be an appropriate place for a couple I told you so's? Brad

 

At the risk of sounding a little bit "pro ATA", I have a question. If Sparta fails completely and cannot maintain enough attendance to host the Grand, where would it go? Would it just go away, not exist? Is there another site that would be willing to take it over and keep it going? If the ATA were to fold up and die, would there be another alternative?

Just asking!

 

Sparta will still be in a gun hate state and gun lovers will still avoid the place.

 

The grand ceased to be grand in 2005. It is only a name. Keep the smell of the muck associated with it out of my backyard.

 

Wow, I just read that article that History Buff had posted way back towards the beginning of this thread...

Gee, I LOVE those numbers !!!

 

Fluffing the numbers big time gets us tax dollars. Illinois will never notice. Haven't noticed yet!

 

SOC and FG, You seem to be avoiding an answer to the question. Is there another place available?

FG, Since the Grand ceased to be a Grand, how does it become a GRAND again?

I'm not suggesting that Sparta is the GRAND, I would like to hear some alternatives. Not just "Sparta is not in a Gun Love state and it will never be a GRAND if it is there rhetoric. I know that Lynn Gipson is a liar and the EC is just a bunch of leeches living off the rest of the ATA but I have yet to see a suggestion that is actually reasonable to bring back the sport of trapshooting. I know that target settings is a major issue here as well as the crookedness of the EC and Gipson but what would the plan be if you could make the changes? If you had the opportunity to back up your suggestions would you step up and take the reigns?

 

The grand died in 2005. Since that year only the name was used. Why care now about the name? My area does not need the grand for trapshooting to survive. I can drive to 100 clubs in the morning. Registered shooting is only about 1/6th of the targets thrown. An after thought here at best.

Not much is wrong with the sport of trapshooting. You post as tho the ATA is trapshooting. The ATA is an organization.

I am not planning on the downfall of the ATA but I will tell you there will be another organization that will replace the ATA.

It is narrow thinking to believe that the ATA is the only trapshooting organization in the U.S. There is a group called PITA. There are well organized leagues in Ohio and PA, that are much bigger than PITA.

There are meat shoots in OH and PA bigger than the PITA grand. We have meat shoots in OH and PA bigger than satellite grands. The ATA is just in the way.

 

Repeating--this from the ATA about the number of shooters at the WSRC on the 2nd preliminary day. As they said to WSIL TV.

TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE HAVE ARRIVED!
30,000 COMPETITORS

What is wrong with trapshooting?

 

Tell us what is wrong with trapshooting in your area.

 

The Grand moved away from the population centers that supported it for decades. It's now become a playground for shooters from the mid-west who are limited in numbers. Unfortunately, it's now become just a large state shoot restricted to around 1,700 attendees per event. If it folds, trapshooting will remain strong as few shooters even care about it's existence. Unfortunately, hundreds of thousands of wasted dollars are only prolonging the agony of the day without the Grand. ATA policy with it's emphasis on points and trinket prizes put nails in it's coffin!

 

So you guys are saying that the ATA doesn't matter yet you come on here everyday and whine and moan about how the ATA is failing all of you!!!!!!!!!!! Really????

Why do you care?????????

Are you joining another organization? If not, why do you keep telling everyone that the ATA is screwing every member? If you are not a member, why do you care????????

NOTHING! We don't care that much about the ATA in my area. If we did, I would care more. I just don't understand why many of you seem to care so much about what the ATA does????

I enjoy shooting trap and skeet and 5-stand and sporting clays but I am not joining any organization. I don't care what the ATA does because I am not a member. I am a shooter and want to come to a site that can give me some tips to make me better not see a bunch of whiners telling me about how the ATA is crapping on everyone's Cheerios but not giving a reasonable alternative to make it better or at least stepping up to make it better.

 

And who would want you? From the outside of the organization, ATA, you seem to know more about it than those whom have been members for 50 years.

Again, you do better as a troll than a trapshooter. You actually want us to believe you are so damn stupid that you have been on this site all this time and believe no one has proposed solutions to the ATA problems. OK you win. Your are that stupid.

 

Why are you on an ATA thread if you dont shoot registered shoots, never shot registered shoots, and your area has no registered shoots? Don't answer. No one cares.
---------------
As far as giving you tips to make you better.......you have had the opportunity to ask many great shooters on this site, many of which have been all americans, anything you want. You have only focused on our opinions about an org in which you have never been a member.

I think you realize that nothing we could tell you can make you a better shooter. Nothing. That may explain your bitterness.

I can walk to 2 clubs in the morning. I can drive to hundreds by noon. Trapshooting is doing well here. I am a member of several trapshooting orgs in my area. I am in the heartland of trapshooting. I can go to 9 shoots each year that are larger than satellite grands. I can get to those in a morning. And not all of those are ATA shoots.

Great to have you here. You dont have to know much to post so have at it.

 

My point exactly!!!! Why are you on an ATA thread? Why do you seem to care so much? If no one cares, why are you responding? If I wanted to join the ATA why would you tell me not to??? You seem to have all the answers, answer that!
If you were to offer an alternative, what would it be? I understand by your post you have several clubs in "walking" distance of your home, what if I don't? What reason would I have to travel to a club? What opportunity would make me want to come to a club you go to that would entice a new shooter?

 

I didn't win anything by being on this site so far! I guess I am that stupid! Why would I want to keep coming here for this? You guys want to promote trapshooting, tell me why I want to be a member of the club you shoot at? What does it offer? These are what will make the sport grow, not the ATA, right?

 

Like Smithy said.....who would want you? The sport is doing fine in my area. We know how to market trapshooting. You not so much.

 

I am asking what you do to market trapshooting in your area so I can apply that to my area. You win, nobody wants me, what does it take to get guys like you?

 

Besides getting rid of people like me!!

 

Clue 1 - Read Brad Dysinger's posts.
Clue 2 - Read Dr. Longshot's posts.
Clue 3 - Read History Buffs History Section.
Clue 4 - Look up the Cardinal Center pictures.
Clue 5 - Check the always humorous posts of flyer.

(not in that order)

Understand the history of what made trapshooting successful. Compare and contrast to what it is like now. If you cant find that on this site....I can't help.

 

I

Is the Cardinal Center throwing ATA targets? I know they are because I have been reading the posts by the posters you have mentioned. Why do they still throw ATA targets? There must be a reason. I know that Dr. Longshot wants the target settings changed to what they were in the 70's, will that make more people shoot? I have not been to the Cardinal, please tell me what they are doing differently than many other clubs around the country? From the pics of Cardinal they have a fantastic facility but not better than many places around the country. If all they have is being in the "center of trapshooting" then what does the rest of the world need to do? Throw "3 hole targets at 52 yards"? If I were to consider joining the ATA, why would you tell me not to?

 

That statement took a lot of thought. I almost said nice to be here.

 

They seem to have had a similar discussion on the problem with trap shooting back in 1923. Here's what one shooter thought about the subject :

​

Enjoy Our Sport !

HB

 

WOW, That article by HB about hits the nail on the head in more ways than one ... Back when men were men, sportsmen if you will with the desire to win, not use or beat the system ... WPT ... (YAC) ...