SCTP signs contract with Cardinal Center

I was at the Cardinal today for the mid summer 3 day shoot, rumor has it sctp signed a 5 year contact with the Cardinal center.

 

Great news if it's true!

 

That is a big scoop space gun. Merlo must be sleeping, stuck under a bridge or incarcerated in Springfield for snooping.

Great new of course for the SCTP kids.

 

There should be no surprise. What other place could compete?

 

I am skeptical about this info. There is a board I think that has to meet at the SCTP.

 

Until Merlo says it's so I wouldn't put much faith in rumors. Brad

 

This is something that could or should be easy to verify, would not hold my breath until it was ... This would not be the worse thing they could do if in fact they do it and it would no doubt be in the best interest for all involved ... The facility in Sparta is not going to make to the end of the lease unless there are major changes in the near future, so the SCTP and AIM will need a place to call home that they can depend on being there ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Are they going to buy out the remaining year on the Sparta contract?

 

There is no remaining year. They were free to leave when the previous contract was broken. It isn't true until Merlo says it is true. I doubt there will be much discussion until after the collegiate championships at the CC. Those are in October.

 

There is no remaining year on a contract. My connections at SCTP says nothing signed.

 

The SCTP just sent out a questionnaire to SCTP Coaches and SCTP parents to get feedback on this year's Nationals within the last couple of weeks. I would think that they would get the results of that questionnaire before signing anything with any venue.

 

Does anyone know the total Attendance of SCTP and AIM shooters of all events?

I would like to know total participation.

Gary Bryant.....................................Dr.longshot

 

Talked with a cardinal employee today, the contact is not signed!!! But the plan is in the works.

 

Does this put the SCTP in a bind? They could have had a long term deal but opted for a one year plan. Now they are back to square 1. Can they rely on the same IDNR that gave them the boot in October? If they don't take what is offered at the Cardinal Center another group will grab it. Then they will be in competition with that group. Bad bargaining position.

 

In the best interests of the SCTP and their supporting groups I believe they will sign the contract with Cardinal Center and the Great strides Jack Fishburn gave them, compared to the very poor recognition the ATA, IDNR gave them when they shut down the WRSC and gave them no alternatives for planning their Championship Shoot.

They know which side of the Bread their Butter is on, and made decisions on that Fact

Yours in Sport
Gary Bryant...........................................Dr.longshot

 

You sure about that Doc. I am thinking Sparta will give their best lick and promise. I think the CC is going to put some higher numbers up than this year.

 

If they can go back to Sparta, I think many will want to just due to the congestion at CC.

 

You thought there was congestion. I heard no more than your state shoot.

 

Word from a quality source it's a done deal. Welcome SCTP to Cardinal!

 

Should the Scholastic Shooting Sports Foundation's SCTP leaders desire to return to the World Shooting & Recreational Complex, they may want to consider renegotiating some of the requirements contained in the initial lease.

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Another Illinois rip off when the kids had no other place to shoot.

Thank You Mr. Fishburn for giving these kids another place to have fun !!!

 

Maybe, maybe not. I would assume there was a reason (other than SCTP greed) the target cost for SCTP shooters went from $72.00 in 2015 to $85.00 in 2016 (200 targets).

 

Do you mean from $80 to $85?

 

iowa guy, lets try this again...

2016 SCTP target fees..
Trap – 200 targets - $85 per shooter* (includes ATA fees)
Skeet – 200 targets - $85 per shooter* (includes NSSA fees)
Sporting Clays – 200 targets - $118 per shooter* (includes NSCA fees)

2015 SCTP target fees..
Trap – 200 targets - $80 per shooter* (includes ATA fees)
Skeet – 200 targets - $80 per shooter* (includes NSSA fees)
Sporting Clays – 200 targets - $115 per shooter* (includes NSCA fees)

2014 SCTP target fees..
Trap – 200 targets - $75 per shooter
Skeet – 200 targets - $78 per shooter*
Sporting Clays – 200 targets - $112 per shooter*
(*NGB Target Fees are included)

 

thanks for the correction on the 2015 numbers. Didn't have the program in front of me.

But it does support the point I was trying to make.

 

To the best of my knowledge these are correct...

2016 SCTP target fees..
Trap – 200 targets - $85 per shooter* (includes ATA fees)
Skeet – 200 targets - $85 per shooter* (includes NSSA fees)
Sporting Clays – 200 targets - $118 per shooter* (includes NSCA fees)

2015 SCTP target fees..
Trap – 200 targets - $80 per shooter* (includes ATA fees)
Skeet – 200 targets - $80 per shooter* (includes NSSA fees)
Sporting Clays – 200 targets - $115 per shooter* (includes NSCA fees)

2014 SCTP target fees..
Trap – 200 targets - $75 per shooter
Skeet – 200 targets - $78 per shooter*
Sporting Clays – 200 targets - $112 per shooter*
(*NGB Target Fees are included)

2013 SCTP target fees..
Trap – 200 targets - $72 per shooter
Skeet – 200 targets - $75 per shooter*
Sporting Clays – 200 targets - $110 per shooter*
(*NGB Target Fees are included)

2012 SCTP target fees..
Trap – 200 targets - $72 per shooter
Skeet – 200 targets - $72 per shooter
Sporting Clays – 200 targets - $110 per shooter

2011 SCTP target fees..
Trap – 200 targets - $68 per shooter
Skeet – 200 targets - $68 per shooter
Sporting Clays – 200 targets - $99 per shooter

2010 SCTP target fees..
Trap – 200 targets - $56 per shooter
Skeet – 200 targets - $56 per shooter
Sporting Clays – 200 targets - $90 per shooter

 

From the best source, It is not done deal yet. You can take that to the bank.

GB.....................DLS

 

I think I know the point you are trying to make, though I don't think there is a direct correlation. It appears raising target fees in the order of 5 dollars per year is normal, whether or not there are more or less fees everywhere else?

What was the point you are trying to make, and what evidence supports it?

Thanks.

 

Doesn't the SCTP set target price?

 

What is the direct effect of the Target fees on SCTP contestants/shooters? Such as pay back in trophies/awards Etc?

I personally feel the target fees are excessive, unless there are offsetting rewards!!!

That comes to $ .40 per target after ATA Fees, which is very extravagant in any sense of the word.

Actual cost of targets is approx. $ 10.35 per case of 135 targets on White Flyer Targets = actual cost at $.0766666 cents per target on a Tractor Trailer Load Delivered, It could be $1.00 higher at the Max. which would be $ .084074 cents per target on a Tractor Trailer Load Delivered.
Which is our target costs on targets our club purchases.
Which amounts to a profit of $. .040 -Minus $ .084704= .315926 cents profit per target, less trap help and Overhead, let's round that off to $ .32 per target.

Now all we need to know is how many targets total were thrown, multiplied by $ .32 cents to get actual total of money received, less expenses of running the shoot.

Yours in Sport
Gary Bryant........................................Dr.longshot

 

Brad's Friend made the comment that the IDNR was screwing the SCTP. Obviously I had thought the costs went up more than they actually did. But they didn't go down and if the IDNR was screwing the SCTP kids so did Mr Fishburn. Or maybe Mr Fishburn made them a better deal and the SCTP pocketed the difference.

It just seemed to me that Brads Friend made an accusation that possibly wasn't true. My initial response was 'maybe/maybe not' and was in reference to the alledged 'rip off'.

 

You seem to list two different items, the SCTP and the SCTP kids and who they were screwed by. The IDNR and/or Mr. Fishburn.

As you said, "obviously," as in obviously I (you) were thinking the kids seemed to get more screwed by Mr. Fishburn. I don't know Mr. Fishburn or have ever been to the CC. I have been to the WSRC many times.

A man, in individual private company stepped up and put up (I am guessing) hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of dollars to build (enhance) a facility in the back drop of uncertainty at a publicly owned range, for thousands of kids and family members to enjoy, and by all accounts succeeded, for possibly only one time.

Now, did Mr. Fishburn screw the SCTP? I don't think so, in the end I would imagine providing a surety over an unknown gave the SCTP benefits, which in the end most likely was at a lessor cost, though I do not know.

Now, did Mr. Fishburn screw the SCTP kids? I don't think so for the same reason as above, though I suppose if you are strictly speaking on a money sense, it is quite possible it cost more for the families to go to the CC in general, oh sure the targets were a little higher cost, though that was from the SCTP and probably would have been that high in Sparta, so that cannot be the reason they were screwed, that of higher cost to the SCTP and SCTP kids (family). It was because instead of sitting after shooting and wondering what to do, there were, it sounds like, many more things to do which were closer to the shooting complex for the families to do, thus possibly spending more money on the trip. So I suppose you are correct, Mr. Fishburn by providing security (a place to shoot) for both the SCTP and the SCTP kids, in an area that has far more things to do within proximity, for the kids and families to enjoy, surely screwed both the SCTP and the SCTP kids.

Is that how you see Mr. Fishburn screwed the SCTP and the SCTP kids?

You mentioned, Brad's friend made the coment that the IDNR was screwing the SCTP. I don't see that in this thread.

I do see, where he mentioned a "rip off", is that what you are referring to?

This is the post,

So, I think this was in reference to all the charges for somewhat normal facility items for a event. It appears through history of the event at the IDNR facility, prices were raised every year to the participants without removing any of the ancillary costs.

It appears, though I do not know, the participant costs rose a normal amount and the ancillary costs were removed. Could not one conclude as Brad's friend seems to that the costs by the IDNR were a ripoff to the SCTP?

If the overall cost to the SCTP was lower, could that help the organization to provide additional funding in support of other shooting activities, whether administrative for functional and would that not help shooting for the youth overall?

What point are you trying to make, if the IDNR was screwing the SCTP then Mr. Fishburn screwed the SCTP and the SCTP kids? You are kidding, correct?

ADDED: As far as the header to the thread.

I believe the SCTP will officially announce where the 2017 Nationals will be held at on or before October 1st, 2016.

 

First of all, I never stated that Mr Fishburn screwed anybody. I simply stated that the costs didn't go down this year with the move to the Cardinal. Read into that whatever the hell you want. Like my original post stated, maybe the SCTP pocketed the reduction in costs. I don't know and neither do you.

I used the word 'screwed' rather than 'rip off'. You're obviously, to me anyway, smart enough to know exactly what I meant. Along those lines, I also used SCTP and SCTP kids interchangably and maybe I shouldn't have. But in reality, if either party did 'rip off' the SCTP, they also then ripped off the SCTP kids.

That's the problem. You don't KNOW anything. To speculate that the Cardinal/Fishburn charged less to the SCTP than the IDNR did is wrong, in my opinion. Not that it matters to you or the ILL/Sparta haters on this website.

There needs to be a point where the association has to realize the costs are excessive. I personally think it's getting really close to that now. Jesus, if the ATA charged this kind of money for 200 targets there would be a lynch mob started.

I've had enough of you and this bullshit.

I'm out.

 

You are correct, you used the word "screwed" instead of "rip off", can you see your mistake. Brad's friend implied it seems to me the fees were a rip off, not that they (SCTP and Kids) were ripped off, you my friend thought that, and since you thought someone else by saying the fee's were a rip off meant that some were screwed. Interesting.

I was just asking, simply what you meant, and you did a, if then, unfortunately it may have been a never was, that you took and ran with.

I thank you for your calm demeanor, I think in past writings (could be wrong) you have said you work or have worked with the SCTP kids in IOWA. I hope you don't get this way when others try to get your understanding of your statements.

Now, to be clear, when you thought the price went up more than you thought, though you did admit did not know and thought it was more than you reported, the insinuation was Mr. Fishburn screwed the kids, was it not. Otherwise why make the statement.

Then you admit you used words interchangeably when maybe you shouldn't have, great. We are making progress.

Lastly you point the association (I assume SCTP) costs to the kids are excessive. Do I assume you think now, it is not the IDNR or Mr. Fishburn that are "screwing" the kids it is the SCTP.

Now, I understand you may think this is "bullshit", but I am just trying to get at what your trying to say. If it was to say you think Brad's friend was wrong in saying the "fees" are a rip off, why didn't you just say that.

I also don't think there are "ILL/Sparta haters on this website", but that is another discussion.

In the end you think, as the SCTP is charging the kids excessively (as you changed rip off fees to screwed I will change excessively to screwed) and are screwing the kids. Is that correct?

Enjoy the day.

 

I was told the SCTP set the prices along w/approval of Mid Way USA. We do not know how the Extra Target costs were distributed. SCTP also set shell costs at the shell house, This was told to me directly at Shell House.

I believe what I was told directly from the source, To me that is the best kind, trustworthy. Honesty and Integrity.

What I said above we do not know how the extra Target money is/was distributed!!

Yours in Sport
Gary Bryant.........................................Dr.longshot

 

The SCTP and Midway USA negotiated directly with the Cardinal Center, and That is their Business not ours or anybody elses.


Gary Bryant.......................................Dr.longshot

 

I know who some of the Parties are on the Negotiating Team for the Contract, and that is Privledged Information, I will not disclose. It is not signed yet.

Gary Bryant.....................................Dr.longshot

 

Iowa Guy,

My point was the charging of Water jugs filled, porta potty pumps, etc., etc.

I just thought that if the State was truly trying to keep the kids, they wouldn't be charging for pumpings, water, etc. at such an high fee...

When I used to go to shoots, the average pump out of my motor home was 15 to 20 bucks. I cannot imagine paying 65 dollars to the company who rented the Porta Potties to start with.

I had no issue with SCTP, only what the organization was being charged by the IDNR

 

I have and will always have a problem based on screw me once (your fault) and that is a problem, screw me twice my fault (problem), should of never got the chance ... The State of Illinois has no loyalty to anyone other than the State of Illinois ... If anyone screwed the SCTP and its membership it was the State of Illinois and they probably have not seen anything yet if they continue to try and do business with the State ... If the SCTP goes back to Illinois they deserve what ever they get, personally I do not see it happening with good reason and or cause ... WPT ... (YAC) ....

 

Iowa, As I have been told the target price was around .03 cents more at the CC than at Sparta, but the target price was basically the total cost. AT Sparta the extra costs as explained by HB were never ending and the overall cost was much less at the CC. I'm sure if you take the time to check this out you will find out that there was a huge difference in the total cost I am not accusing any one of anything, but it appears that it was a much more economically package at the CC.

Dave Berlet

 

The State of Illinois has always been good at taxation, they charge you sales tax, then tax the sales tax ... I had a business in the State of Illinois and some of the taxation they come up with is utterly ridiculous, problem is if you do not pay it you got big troubles ... The State can ignore bills that are really due and owing and there is obviously nothing that can be done about that ... The tax increases are getting out of hand for the residents, auto's sales, income, hell if you die that tax that to ... The PRETTIEST site I ever saw was the State of Illinois in my rear view mirror as I was leaving for the final time ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Just a look back. Deja Vu?