ATA, the way I see it

Being I'm not as member of the other site and most you know what site I'm talking about, if not it's the one that has five or six A.T.A, Sparta haters that like to have conversations with them self's. I am sure one of them or one of you that view both sites will see that they see this. It would be no good for me to join that site as if you watch you will see that Moderator and User1 are big strong folks that if you not agree with their crap will kick you off. I witnessed this when Shotgun Bob disagreed with User1 who is also spouting off how the EC and C.H.C are all in this to line their pockets. See He puts that out there but does not tell you that was probably true in the past that the A.T.A was very loosely run many years ago and I will not say that was not true many years ago. I would also bet if you asked most of the naysayers on that site who are or where the EC members for the last ten years and what they do, without research they could not name them! But He and WPT and some others like to throw the whole EC in a pile.

He obviously come on this site to find out what is really happening, though he may not like it the truth be told and the members are listening ... People get labeled as a Sparta, ATA hater because they do not agree with the way things are being done and those who claim to do it for the "Love of the Game" get paid to some degree by the ATA ... Kind of like pissing on my shoes and telling me it raining ...

Folks the A.T.A has a controller and a accountable plan that is available for anyone to see. They have set limits and it does not matter what you send in as receipts ,you will be reimbursed only up to that limit. What we are reimbursed is in the financial statement given every year at the Board meeting to your elected Delegate. Look him up, all the financials of the A.T.A are there. My years on the C.H.C with two trips to Florida it always cost me money, the reimbursement from the A.T.A barely covered my motel cost. We DO NOT DO THIS FOR MONEY BUT FOR THE LOVE OF THE SPORT!!!!! You have to consider the fuel, meals and also a week from work to do this.

"LOVE OF THE SPORT" is a generic statement used by those who get reimbursed to some extent and each one collects to the limits that is talked about If you get any thing paid for its a job, not a position that you do for the Love of the sport ... Why should a volunteer or elected person get paid when they know its not a paid position to begin with (that has been changed over the years) to create a "Cash Cow" for the EC, CHC, ED, and some of the BOD ... Then there is the "usual and customary provisions" that are expected at all of the Big Shoots ... Free set ups, food, rental cars, expenses, place to hide from the members that they are supposed to represent ... It costs every shooter money to attend shoots, why should the EC, CHC, and or some of the BOD not have to pay also ..?

Another thing they like to incur is that we have a free ride. Folks I am the Southern Zone Vice President, that means I am responsible for representing the Delegates and A.T.A shooters of the Southern Zone. The two Satellite Grand's in my zone, the Grand, EC meetings and the Southern Zone shoot are all I get refunds for up to the set limits. When I travel to other shoots it all on me. Every one of us pay at all shoots the entry fees, A.T.A fees, squadding just like you do. At the Grand we rent our camper spots just like you do, no discount.

No one has ever said they do not pay for entry's but all shooters travel and have to pay entry's, fuel, campers spots dining out food, drinks, etc ... The ATA gets 25 FREE camping spots so if anyone does not get one they are not that far up on the pole yet ... If someone runs for and gets elected to represent shooters, they know what it entails before running , then they expect or advised they get paid for it, don't worry ...

Now lets talk about Merlin from the other site who I like to call the open records peeping tom He has all the info but if you pay attention He only likes to put out the part that hurts or makes the A.T.A look bad. For instance his last on hiring the person the run the IDNR who he put in bold letters that Gipson did not get his way by pushing Dean Townsend, well what he did not tell you is that Dean was offered the job and turned it down. You want facts and not what they want you to hear ? Give Dean a call , he can enlighten you on the true of why He turned it down at this time. Then they like to Slander Lynn Gipson for pushing Dean for this job with the IDNR and infer He sticking his nose where it don't belong. If you ask the IDNR folks they will gladly tell you that they asked ( Lynn did not pursue ) to be on the IDNR steering committee to find people for the job and the jobs of managing all the divisions , sporting clays, skeet, pistol etc. The IDNR is not known for these other venues as much as it for hosting the largest Shooting event in the world (TRAP) and Lynn is the Executive Director of the A.T.A would it not seem reasonable that He would steer in the direction of someone that has knowledge of the A.T.A and trapshooting. Then they want to throw in the other gentlemen that applied was not given a chance but failed to tell you He on his own withdrew from the running.

Lynn ( the Talking Head ) Gipson gets paid very well to be the spokesman for the ATA (Talking Head), and most people realize even he does not believe some of the things he says like the amount of money generated in the region or local economy in and about Sparta ... It would only take a "SIMPLETON" with a calculator less than a minute to figure out the numbers they throw around are totally not able to be reached and never have been ... Gipson says 20/ 30 Million in the region and all the time the State of Illinois knows better ... Gipson, and the ATA wanted BOY in there not for what he could or would do for the State but what he would or could do for the ATA ... Gipson should stay out of other people business, and stop making statements that make him look stupid, uneducated and out of tough with reality ...

Folks you are listening to disgruntled people that mean no good for trapshooting even though they want you to think it is for betterment of the sport. Can you show me one instance where a positive has came from their slanderous remarks .Look them up if you know their names, I know they like to hide behind screen names but if you happen to know them you will see most do not and have not shot A.T.A trap for years and don't have a clue of the current administration and how it is run.

There is absolutely no substance to him making this statement (above) , and a person can shoot but not shoot registered as a way to not show support for the way things are ... There are many people who do not shoot because they do not want to support the ATA, and pay the way of those who get paid to volunteer ... Open ones eyes and that would be obvious ...

Then we want to talk about Sparta and the Cardinal Center which they ( The FIVE OR SIX WHO LIKE TO TALK TO EACH OTHER) would like you to think we are at odds or in some kind of competition against each other. Let's see now? The Cardinal Center has A.T.A shoots and Sparta has A.T.A shoots, the Cardinal Center has more and we hope more and more and larger and larger ones. So being the Cardinal Center is a A.T.A club drawing new shooters and old shooters alike and the A.T.A is surviving because of clubs like this why would the A.T.A not be on board? This I can tell you, there are not hard feelings between the A.T.A and the Cardinal Center but I will say I have heard many folks say they will not go there because of the crap put out by these few Sparta haters . I love shooting at the Cardinal and will continue as I can separate shit from Ice cream.

The Cardinal Center is a first class operation, the WSRC is deteriorating already and needs extensive repairs besides having a known MOLD problem that is a health hazard to some (many ) people ... Separating shit from Ice Cream must be the qualification to be on the CHC, so that one goes to him ... The ATA can survive with out the grand also, just on daily fees, they need to cut the number of people they support financially and now more new guns, and get volunteers who do it for the "Love of the game" (not just in words) and they would save a lot of money on behalf of the members ...

Now ,Sparta and their current problems with budgets. WPT would like you to think it going to cost the A.T.A a fortune to have the Grand this year. Now if you want to believe a grown ass man that likes to call one of most capable men I have ever met to run our organization,(Lynn Gipson) his words (ATA TALKING HEAD) REALLY! The ATA has been profitable every year the Grand has been in Sparta, the Trap and Field magazine is in the black now making good progress. The A.T.A has a committee that is dedicated to other options if Sparta falls thru. They like to talk about the loses of the site but not talk about how much money this brings in the surrounding area and the government in forms of tax. We will have a great Grand this year, our camping is almost full, all the sponsors are back on board. We'll have a Grand time as usual.

Sparta does not have a budget problem, the State of Illinois who supports the IDNR /WSRC has a budget problem ... I am not impressed with Lynn ( the Talking Head ) Gipson and feel he is in a perfect position to benefit his business on the grounds of the WSRC (shot reclaiming) and to sell guns while being paid to be the ED of the ATA (conflict of interest???) ... The ATA has been profitable but the State has lost money to the tune of over $23 Milions dollars in 11 years, so if the State pulls the plug on the WSRC the ATA will not make that money every year ...

Now WPT and his comments that the Martin's are bailing us out and that's the only way we'll make it. The Martin's have been and continue to be great for trapshooting. I only met Bill Martin one time and it was over a swig of Ky. shine from a mason jar. I think Bill Martin and family are great folks and would feel the same if they were flat broke, I don't judge people by their worth. But to continue, the donation so generously given by the Martins was a sponsors donation and I will not disclose the amount here, you can obtain that from the A.T.A office. It has nothing to due with running the Grand due to Ill. financial problems. WPT I paid more for my last truck than the questioned amount, don't think it's a bail out!

The Martins have done more to promote trapshooting in a short period of time than the ATA has in the past 15 years (more actually)... The Martins are top shelf and good people with big hearts ... I have sat and had many drinks (too many ) a few times with Bill Martin, Craig Hart, and a bunch of them boys from Utah ... They had a reserved table and it was well used ... It come as no surprise that the Martins would pony up a sponsors donation, maybe those who get paid to act on behalf of the ATA should donate what they get paid for volunteering .. (there's something that will never happen) ... I never had a drink with any of the EC or BOD who showed up, I don't stoop that low ...

I will not feed or argue with the 5 or six from that site as I don't wish to get drug down to their level. I will say this that at times they have boarded on personal slander and when they do cross that line I will find how much out of pocket money they are willing to spend out of their pocket to furnish proof in court room ! When you accuse the EC of being on the take to line their own pockets, folks that is a personal attack on my reputation . That is a open forum and you can go so far, well I should say a few can, as others get kicked off, you are accountable for you actions and hiding behind a screen name won't help if a Court subpoena's your site for all contacts info.

File your suit, I'll own you when its over ... Slander is making statements that are not true and the truth is acceptable in court ... You have no idea what you are talking about, that is quite obvious , but you feel the need to defend which shows a weakness in your existence and position ... You lost the re election, but got your way any way ... Sucking up must be one of your strong points ... If you know so much, How many Delegates voted in favor of Sparta when the people who elected them were not in favor of it ..? Integrity, Honor, honest should be in the job description of Delegates and representatives of the people via the ATA ...

I am a Highway, Pipeline Contractor in Business since 1967 and not very political correct, so if you ask me a question you will get a answer and maybe not one you wish to hear but I will give the facts as I know them to be true. My whole goal of this is to please get you to do YOUR research and not rely on what someone want's to feed you when there is always the rest of the story. Your EC, Delegate or the A.T.A office has all this information. Don't be afraid to ask.

No wonder they leak and flood the highways ... What have you personally done to correct the graft, corruption , and to make the ATA better for all of the members, not just the chosen few ..?

I would not bother with that bunch if I did not care that new shooters see crap and some take it to heart. The A.T.A is strong and in capable hands . This is not the old A.T.A as the naysayers would like you to believe. The last several years you have been fortunate to have EC's that have put in place guidelines that control all expenditures. The A.T.A has to and is run as a business , if not there will be no A.T.A. The naysayers had a celebration when they thought Sparta was shut down and gone! Why would anyone that cares about trapshooting want any place to fail?

Naysayers in a stupid term used by stupid people who feel they know something about those who do not agree with the way the ATA is losing members, can't draw a crowd at the grand as the attendance drops off every year since they re located to the WSRC in Sparta, Ill ... Sparta haters, ATA haters, naysayers, and a host of others are generic and used by people who do nothing but let the ATA EC, ED run the Association into the ground... Go and get a life ... You got a job standing in line for a new gun, good job ... Appointed, not elected by the way ...

You have questions ask a A.T.A official, call the A.T.A office ,

Terry Dean VP Southern Zone
Ky. Delegate

 

"My years on the C.H.C with two trips to Florida it always cost me money, the reimbursement from the A.T.A barely covered my motel cost."

I find it funny, both humor and odd, that someone who always states how little the "ATA" pays, and they don't need the money ... but he NEVER donates those small amounts to someplace it my help ... like youth shooting.

I can see Kool Aid being on a fast-track to be a Schedule II drug by the FDA ... it fries the brain.

 

I find it some what comical (amusing ) that someone/anyone would have the stones to say shooting and or attending shoots cost them money (looks like another candidate for Assistant TALKING Head try outs ) ... I have never attended a shoot that has not cost me money for a place to stay, fuel, food, entertainment, entry fee's, options, shells etc. and have serious doubts any other shooter has not incurred the same over the years with few exceptions ... What about the "Usual and customary set up's, expenses being paid, food , etc, and then on top of it when they leave they take the bottles with them as if they had them coming" , talk about CON MEN ... I would honestly like to know what the ED, EC, and many of the BOD have done for the membership to deserve them being catered to ..? Watch the Video, Morris was fighting to stay awake as they put on a show for the benefit of the ATA ... John Norris was the only one who had the balls to approach me and ask me what was going on and I told him to tell the Morons the free ride is over ... Wonder how many clubs still supply them with all of the Usual and Customary besides pay for them to be there ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...

Whats really funny is it was posted in a place I do not go for all but me to see , I guess ... Got something to say to me don't be bashful ... I'm in the book but if you block your number or name we don't answer it ...

 

?

 

"User1 are big strong folks that if you not agree with their crap will kick you off" ... "I witnessed this when Shotgun Bob disagreed with User1" ....

I guess "Shotgun Bob" is "PumpgunBob" .... If PumpgunBob or Shotgun Bob has any questions about actions by me, do not be shy.

 

That was posted by Terry Dean - for all of the Kool aid crew and mental midgets to see rather than a place where I would see it and it was forwarded on to me for my final inspection and response by one of the so called Sparta, ATA haters ... Terry is obviously trying to convince people how great he, the EC, ED, and some of the BOD are so he made the choice to defend his position and pay for him to volunteer as well as compliment Lynn ( the Talking Head) Gipson for a job well done ($136,000 + annually) ... If the ATA calls and asks if you would like to volunteer ask them what it pays ..? I would advise anyone who threaten me to make damn sure what your talking about , I do not take them lightly and have files upon files of proof of anything and everything I say besides having them saved on external hard drives just in case ... I don't always play well with others ... You mess with the Bull, you get the horns ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

User1,
Nope, no questions about your actions.

Just flattered that I was mentioned.

That's all.

 

Gee, it cost my family nearly $4,000 to attend the FL State Shoot this year. We've been attending the State shoot or Southern Grand almost every year since 1985 and I'm still waiting for my first re-imbursement. I suppose I need give a few hours of my valuable time to classify shooters to qualify.

All this valuable information comes from the mouth of the Southern Zone delegate who professed to know nothing of the thousands of phantom targets recorded at a club in his district-after he said he did-but didn't-but did-we'll you know what I mean.

Amazingly, he professes the ATA is currently really watching their nickels and dimes contrary to previous administrations only a few years ago. I suppose he means that only a few years ago there were crooks in their midst but they somehow weeded 'em out.

Maybe someone like Dr. Frank Rively or Paul Shaw could offer their opinion on that one!

 

"The ATA has been profitable every year the Grand has been in Sparta" .... from "Terry Dean's" post above ....

From a report dated "July 19, 2010"

"What do we learn from this analysis? The “bottom line” is the ATA lost nearly $400,000 in Net Operating
Income from Continuing Operations (NOICO) in 2009. In the last four years, the ATA has lost almost $1.4
million in NOICO. My guess is that we will lose another really big number in 2010. The losses are being
masked in the audited financial statements by income from lead reclamation, investment income on the
ATA’s “endowment,” as well as the “mark-to-market” gains (losses). Said differently, if not for the
prudence of a prior generation of shooters and lead reclamation from Vandalia, we would be eating into
our endowment at an alarming rate! As it is, we are diminishing the value of the endowment by nearly
fully consuming the earnings thereon. If the trend continues, we will liquidate the ATA."

"My guess is that we will lose another really big number in 2010." .... "In the last four years, the ATA has lost almost $1.4million in NOICO." .... that would be 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 .... the first "Sparta" years ???? He must not have talked to "Terry Dean".

 

They only tell them and the members on a need to know basis, he don't need to know ... Hell, he don't know he gets a free parking (camping spot) at the grand ... The ATA gets 25 free spots every year, he must not be far enough up on the pole yet ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The sinner is always the one to protest his innocence the loudest. This rant makes me wonder what is really going on with the EC. What is the true story?

I would point out that Merlo must be someone in the know on the inside. Maybe Mr. Dean needs to focus his ire closer to home. Merlo may not live under the overpass after all but may indeed be driving one of those million dollar motorhomes and staying on one of those free 25 camping lots. I hope the threat of legal action is more than a threat. When courts investigate, things sometimes don't work out the way you think it would. I'd like to see all parties answer questions.

Ezekiel 33

 

"you are accountable for you actions and hiding behind a screen name won't help if a Court subpoena's your site for all contacts info." .... yea, my dog knows my password and he makes a lot posts ....

""

 

Not being one to hide behind a screen name I hope I'm on that list to be subpoenaed, I have 40 plus years of stories and facts regarding the ATA and EC that I'd love to share. So count me in. Brad Dysinger [not a screen name by the way]

 

As a long time manager of an organization my first rule was to believe the ones who always pointed the fingers were usually the most culpable!

 

I find it to be interesting that Terry would post this rather than to and at the people he is so disgusted with, I must have a special place in his heart because it sounds like he is the leader of my Fan Club ... He does have some of the mental midgets, kool aid crew and followers all giving him Oh yeahs and congratulations but not really enough to matter ... The facts cannot be changed and nothing that he says can be changed, altered, or modify the truth will eventually come out ... Terry may be the second son talking head to the big talking head but fact is he is not very popular with his constituents being as he couldn't win an election ( re election) out right so he got appointed to a position on the CHC instead, which probably pays better any how ...
I find it interesting also that the Mods allow a person, any person to attack another person or an other site without them not be subjected to some degree of recourse , though that really doesn't matter one way or the other ... I take the fifth on the hiding behind a screen name, I use my initials and have for many years so any body who is any body knows me and what I stand for ... If you see me at a shoot, can't miss me, I'd be the big guy always smiling ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT would be my initials, (YAC) stands for "Your Arizona Connection" ... I would help any one in anyway I can if by chance they need something that I can get or provide for them in Arizona, making me your Arizona connection ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Terry's Comments : (in detail)

Then we want to talk about Sparta and the Cardinal Center which they ( The FIVE OR SIX WHO LIKE TO TALK TO EACH OTHER) would like you to think we are at odds or in some kind of competition against each other. Let's see now? The Cardinal Center has A.T.A shoots and Sparta has A.T.A shoots, the Cardinal Center has more and we hope more and more and larger and larger ones. So being the Cardinal Center is a A.T.A club drawing new shooters and old shooters alike and the A.T.A is surviving because of clubs like this why would the A.T.A not be on board? This I can tell you, there are not hard feelings between the A.T.A and the Cardinal Center but I will say I have heard many folks say they will not go there because of the crap put out by these few Sparta haters . I love shooting at the Cardinal and will continue as I can separate shit from Ice cream.

The ATA can thank God they have clubs like the Cardinal Center and many more supporting and collecting daily fees for them, not to mention each and every little grass roots club all across the United State, Canada, as well as other country's or they would not be able to support paying out the amounts of money they do for ED, EC and CHC members to attend shoots on the members dime, not to mention hand out a new $16,000 shotgun to the out going president for doing nothing to promote the sport ... The Cardinal Center probably collects more support money that the grand and any other shoots combined the ATA hosts at the WSRC in Sparta, Ill ... I hope to meet you someday, I'll buy you some Ice Cream to make sure you know the difference between shit and Ice Cream (Chocolate..? I'm guessing) ...




Now WPT and his comments that the Martin's are bailing us out and that's the only way we'll make it. The Martin's have been and continue to be great for trapshooting. I only met Bill Martin one time and it was over a swig of Ky. shine from a mason jar. I think Bill Martin and family are great folks and would feel the same if they were flat broke, I don't judge people by their worth. But to continue, the donation so generously given by the Martins was a sponsors donation and I will not disclose the amount here, you can obtain that from the A.T.A office. It has nothing to due with running the Grand due to Ill. financial problems. WPT I paid more for my last truck than the questioned amount, don't think it's a bail out!


If you feel that the Martins are not or have not been donating enough (the cost of your truck) why don't the ATA or you on behalf of the ATA turn down the donation and give them some sincere thanks for their offer ?? You know that will never happen as well as I do ... We also know the EC, ED, and many of the BOD and CHC will never give back (donate) their paychecks back to the ATA either, because you and they are in it for the "Love of the Game" ..? Talking out of ones A$$ seems to fare well between all of the game lovers as they reap their rewards and new shot guns ... The Martins have donated ($1,550,000.00 plus) to date ( in a short period of time) and that is just in Sparta, what do you say and or think about that ..?


I am a Highway, Pipeline Contractor in Business since 1967 and not very political correct, so if you ask me a question you will get a answer and maybe not one you wish to hear but I will give the facts as I know them to be true. My whole goal of this is to please get you to do YOUR research and not rely on what someone want's to feed you when there is always the rest of the story. Your EC, Delegate or the A.T.A office has all this information. Don't be afraid to ask.


Not very politically correct or the brightest bulb in the box if you do not know the meaning of Slander (definition) before you make a statement about the statements being slander ... The TRUTH is still allowed in court and if a Statement is truth based on facts it is not Slander (make a note for future reference ) ... People have made an excuse for Lynn (The Talking Head ) Gipson and might do the same for you based on the post you made as an excuse for not being right on top of things and making statements that are false (Claims of 20/30 Million) ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

Have a nice day ...

 

Be nice .... everyone knows how super-rich "Terry Dean" is, he tells the Kool Aid Crew every chance he can get. He can even purchase a truck of greater value than the "Martin Donation". Heck, someone with that kind of wealth will certainly donate that truck this year at the "Grand" to boost attendance.

And, only he can do this .... "so if you ask me a question you will get a answer and maybe not one you wish to hear but I will give the facts as I know them to be true" .... All the unwashed masses can not speak of any "fact" if they "know them to be true" .... Because it makes his dumb-ass look even dumber.

He said .... "I don't judge people by their worth." .... Well, I do, and it has NOTHING to do with money ....

So, be nice to those who are very willing to support their personal shooting with "ATA" money, they very much need.

 

I am shocked .... or better yet in disbelief ....

That a very rich "Highway, Pipeline Contractor in Business since 1967" has not answered the call to fill the void of the meager "Martin Donation".

My God man, "For the Love of the Sport", share your wealth. Others of more meager wealth should not have to bear the load alone. You can tell people how little the "ATA" pays you is not something you need, but the best way to show the unwashed masses they are wrong is to open your big wallet, others have.