Boring....Kool aiders

The kool aid drinkers seem to have surrendered. Sugar shortage?

 

I like cherry and orange koolaid!

 

I don't think we all surrendered.

It's just that this site is so boring. If nobody refutes anything the 15 or so members or one of the new posters throws out some bait, then the threads just sit idle.

Most of you guys are just like buzzards. You sit in a chair watching and waiting for someone to post something, anything so you can pounce on them and tell them how wrong or stupid they are.

Maybe some of us are going to try some different pond. The suckers have all been caught here.

 

You're here!

 

And so are you Mrs T!!

 

So the only reason you came on here was to "fish"? All your post were just "bait"? And in your mind you succeeded in "catching" all of us "suckers"? So now some of you are going to try a different pond?

And I thought one of your other posts was the dumbest thing I ever read on here. I was wrong about that.

And Bob, if you look real close you will see that you were the first one to bite the hook that overhandicapped34 tossed out so maybe ALL the suckers aren't those 15 members.

 

I didn't say I was fishing.

Don't much care for fishing, too much time wasted waiting for something to bite. Then if I only catch 1 small one, well, 1 isn't worth cleaning.

 

Pumpgunbob, LadyT did a good job of lip hooking you on her first cast. Pretty good fisherlady is she not? Roger C.

 

You're here too, Rog.

 

Yea but I'm not whining about kool aide and sugar in an attempt to attack others.

 

Your reference to "KoolAid" drinkers or dumb followers is an insult. But then anyone that doesn't agree with your perverted line of thought is considered beyond help in your mind. Believe me, we don't surrender, we will be here to stomp you down! I'm sure you have heard of the SILENT Majority! Some people know it is better to keep their opinions to themselves, try it sometime!

 

Mrs T,

I didn't whine about koolaid or sugar.
I like both koolaid and sugar.

 

Love ya Big Jack! Ever hear the saying "ATA Bashers".

You got the floor Jack. Step away from the pitcher and tell us about the ATA accomplishments this year. Tell me about their accomplishments in the last 20 years.

You are a Kool Aid drinker Jack. Face it you have a problem. Hug time?

 

Almost 20 percent of Kool-Aid drinkers are Hispanic, while slightly more than 20 percent are African-American, according to the brand.

The other 60 percent must be white trap shooters from the Sparta area.
*********
Source: http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/2011/12/48-unprepared-kool-aid.html

 

Well, they did change the earned yardage table back and forth a few times. See, they did do something!

 

My grandpa used to say ,

" Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink!"

 

Your grandpa smelled lots of those?

I like the opinions. This is a forum?

 

Really doesn't take much to get you folks going! Look at the sun & smile!

 

I wish your grandpa would have been in the meeting when they decided, in their opinion,to move the grand to that place in Il.

No truer words would have been spoken.

 

Tree rat,

No, he didn't smell lots of assholes but he's kind of like me. He knew lots of them.

 

Flyer,

You can say Sparta. Your lips won't fall off or anything.

Try it.

S..PARTA. See, it doesn't hurt.

Try again, S..PARTA

Good boy!

 

I think you got the "parta" right. Parta history!

 

Pumpgun,

Flyer wont be heading to IL so he wont need to say the word. I read you will soon be heading to the CC.
You should be practicing.

O -- H

I -- O

Gooooo Bucks!

 

Looking forward to it! Again.

Actually have worked in Ohio on several occasions.

Marathon oil refinery at Akron, Air Guard in Cincinnati, hospital in Mentor.
Brother and sister in law lived in Cincinnati and have a niece still there. ( Cincinnati chili sucks though, IMHO)
While working in Cincinnati met Dr. Bombay at his local club.

 

I wanted to be a proctologist at one time, I know a little something about a - - holes butt changed my mind after thinking about for a short time ... Imagine going home and checking out the wife after a long day at the office ...

The other 60 percent must be white trap shooters from the Sparta area. (Stat man Stan) ALL 4 OF THEM ? ? ?? ?
*********
Kool aid and ripple, now your talking ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I CAN say it but I won't. The move there SUCKED.

My second year of shooting registered targets, I only had 600 16's my first year,I was fortunate enough to win a little 3rd place Handicap silverware my first year at the GRAND in VANDALIA. Only the 24.5 yard line but it was the Prelim Handicap and THAT pushes you to want to shoot more. And I did.

NO ONE you know or have met in your 10 years of belonging to the ata LIVED to shoot registered targets as much as I did. I have posted it before but for your education, I spent EVERY extra cent I made on shooting registered targets.I mean EVERY cent.

I used to take a loan at the credit union every year to shoot the entire week at the GRAND in VANDALIA. I worked as much OT as I could to support the habit. I did NOTHING but shoot practice and registered targets.

I bought components on tick to keep me shooting 3-4 nights a week plus shot 300 registered EVERY weekend. I shot no matter the weather or the place. If there was a shoot somewhere in my area, SW PA, I was there.

Bills got paid late, I didn't go on any vacations unless it involved shooting registered targets. NOTHING was more important than shooting, NOTHING.

Did YOU ever write a check to shoot a cap event KNOWING you didn't have enough in the account to cover it? I never bounced a check.

You can use that "good boy" swipe and giggle about it and when I was younger it might have fit, but now that I'm older, wiser, and see what a dumbass move it was by moving to that place in Il. it really doesn't make much sense.

Remember this,

I DIDN'T LEAVE THE ATA, THE ATA LEFT ME.

 

Flyer, reading your above entry makes me think of myself. Never wrote a dud check to shoot but I have ran the account to almost nothing a couple of times. The trinket trophies I have won have for the most part disappeared. I did make the 27yd line not once but three times only to accept their reductions when they were offered. Then age crept up and ability seemed to diminish but then I don't shoot near as much as I once did. There are many days I enjoy just sitting on the bench , watching the up & coming try to improve their ability. Last year, due to health reasons, I didn't shoot a registered target. BUT, this year I'm back, looking forward to the opportunities.
As I was told once, when they shoot good, pat them on the back and maybe they will do the same when your day comes!

 

Like I said, never bounced one. But it does give you incentive to win and makes you focus on what you are supposed to be doing. Amps up the pressure factor some.

 

I once shot doubles with a fella that wrote a bum check to buy a new Perazzi from a dealer at the Pa. State shoot. He was lucky enough to win the doubles championship,(with the new gun), collect his winnings, and redeem the rubber paper before the check reached any further hands. Now, that's confidence in ones ability! And he got away with it! New gun, doubles championship, and few were any wiser for his stunt.

 

Chilon you dont have FEELINGS,, you have always liked KoolAid, I thought they kicked you off of here?

 

Got lower standards here. Anyone can post.

 

I just check in once in a while to see if the ATA haters are still living under a cloud, and it seems that's where they like to be.

 

El Paso
All this time we had overestimated you. I might have thought you would would or could have posted where someone was wrong about something posted here. You surrendered too!

 

In my opinion most of the people who speak against the present ATA policies have been or presently are ATA members, have shot many ATA registered targets, are not ATA haters just realists.

 

I don't know of any Sparta or ATA haters, the only real cloud I know of is the one hanging over the WSRC (cloud of doubt and uncertainty) and it appears no body really knows anything for sure about that cloud or what will come out of it ... The time will soon be here (04-15-16) and reality will hit home when the negotiation get started between the ATA, State of Illinois, and IDNR, when the numbers get presented to rent the facility for a short or long term agreement ... The stipulations might shock some people, not to mention financial obligations to be tendered and agreed to between the principles ... To ignore the existence of a problem does not make it go away or disappear, it only allows more time until it has to be addressed and dealt with ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

what happened to the koolaid drinker Chilon post????

 

CHILON gone. His other names gone too.

 

Who the heck was CHILON? Or his many aliasis? Did I miss something? Roger C

 

Chilon was a fake. All can be a fake on the net. Said he graduated from my school and was from OH. I checked. BS. He said he was from the same town Harvey is from. Did not know that did you Harvey.

 

Since you apparently don't check in enough, I'll post it for you and your buds one more time. If you don't understand what it means you must be new at this game.

I didn't leave the ata, the ata left me!

 

Ok Flyers, today we're putting you in charge of the ATA.
What's your first couple of moves? Serious question.

 

OK, I'll play. Off the top, Change the targets back to the original settings.

Do away with "everybody gets a chance at a prize". Drop some of the categories.

Stop the " you can't compete so we will move you closer" mentality. Four yards was a little excessive, don't ya think? Keep the review so legit shooters can move up ONE yard if they are struggling. A thousand targets should work.

Try, and I mean at least try, to get some added money back into the "big" shoots.

I'm at work right now. If I get a chance to think about it I'll try and come up with some more later. 60 hours a week drains you.

 

Can I play ????

First, get rid of every person currently "working for" the "ATA".

Second, look hard for people willing to work hard for the sport, without the need of milking the bank account.

Until you clean the house, new paint will only fade and fall off.

 

"willing to work hard for the sport?"

Bitching and second guessing on some internet forum won't cut it?

 

Does managing an ATA affiliated gun club for nearly 20 years account for anything? Our organization paid plenty in ATA fees!

 

Educating the trapshooters on forums like this has an impact. El Paso hates that part the most.

I give Flyer an A+ on that.

 

"Bitching and second guessing on some internet forum won't cut it?" .... I could not agree more ....

Getting some prosecuted for their possible misdeeds should work much better, only time will tell .... tick-tock ....

 

Blaming 2 versus 3 hole targets for all the ATA's problems is silly. Not that much difference.
The "Harlan's" of the game will deal with it the best anyway.


Perhaps if the powers that be in the ATA knew a dozen years ago what we all know now, we might not be in Sparta, but when you have to make a decision you make the best one at the time and hope it's the right one.

I agree that there are too many category trophies that don't mean much, but apparently some folks like them.
If a big percentage of shooters are over-handicapped, move them ahead. That's what they were thinking with the two yards at a time reductions. An experiment at least.

I think it's up to the gun clubs to try to put more money into their own shoots. I've known some local shoots that have tried and it really hasn't been a real winner yet. The Reno-Vegas shoots are an example. The clubs aren't even there anymore.

 

Palos....you should hang out here and do the research before making these posts. The Harlan's of the world had problems with the 3 hole targets at the GAH. So tell me how many GAH perfect 100's from the fence there were in 80 years prior to the rule change.

Hint: look at one hand and subtract a few.

 

Palos....

They paid big money for a company to give them advice on that issue. They ignored the professional survey. They polled the members and they ignored the members too.

And then there is the issue of the locations that were not put on the table to be voted on.

And then we made a deal with felon Blagojevich the gun hater in a gun hate state. Corruption has consequences.

 

Family, if you think that the target angle change is the only thing that helped increase scores, I don't believe you are a 27 yard shooter.

"they ignored survey"
"other locations not put on table"
I don't believe you know all the facts.

"gun hater state"
Funny a gun hating state built the biggest gun range in the US.

 

El Paso great discussion but one that has been on the forum in great detail.

A few days after Blagojevich gave the opening ceremony speech at the WSRC he gave his biggest gun hate speech in Springfield and then gutted the IDNR. The WSRC debacle worked for Blago and the corrupt in the ATA.

Blagojevich bought the votes from the stupid in southern Illinois and proceeded with his gun hate rhetoric. Shortly after Blago goes to jail. "Pull llc" is discovered, and auditors removed. Hopefully the Cardinal Center continues to say no.

 

El Paso....

More information about the IDNR and the Gun Hate State's best friend....and someone you must adore.
Blagojevich's deep cuts put IDNR on endangered list
from the Chicago Tribune

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...160171_1_state-parks-illinois-department-cuts

facts screw up the good thread.

 

El Paso

Here is the results of the survey ....previously posted on this forum.


So how did we get here?

Who could have predicted the outcome?

What did the membership want? Those answers are easy. Documented in black and white by the ATA. Quotes from the survey sent to the membership in 2003. The summary of that survey follows....
Survey says

(document provided to American Trapshooter.com by Brad Dysinger)
Recently the ATA sent a seven-question survey to 20,000 of its members. Nearly 4,800 replied, a 24 percent response rate.

ATA members in the U.S. live in one of five zones designated by the group: Eastern, Southern, Central, Southwestern and Western. By far the largest number of survey responses, 2,094, came from the Central Zone which includes the states of North and South Dakota, Nebraska, Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio and Indiana.

The Central Zone also contains by far the largest number of active ATA members — 12,331 or 36 percent of the group’s 34,271 active members.

The Eastern Zone, which includes the six New England states plus Delaware, Maryland, New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania, contains the second-highest number of active members, 7,178, or 21 percent.

Of the survey respondents, 2,435 said they attend the Grand American every year. The vast majority of the annual attendees, 1,390 or 57 percent, live in the Central Zone. The next-largest group which attends every year, 527 or 22 percent, comes from the Eastern Zone.

Question four in the survey asked,
“If the Grand moves to a location that is further away from you, how would it affect your attendance?”

Of the 1,821 total respondents from the Central Zone, 75 percent said they would attend less often or not at all.

Of the 906 members who responded from the Eastern Zone, 83 percent said they’d go less often or not at all.

Perhaps the most telling question in the survey asked the respondents to rank the important factors in choosing a new location.

The largest majority named “pro-gun state” as their top choice. One issue with the site in Sparta has been Illinois’ restrictive gun laws, although state officials have reportedly been working to change them.

“Proximity to current location” was the second most important factor in picking a new location, followed by “land ownership vs. lease” and “proximity to amenities.”

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The membership knew the outcome.

The membership told the EC what the outcome would be.

 

Family, I think most of us agree with those items but the folks in charge of the ATA had to find a way to pay for the new playground. Should we/they have thought ahead 25 years ago? Yup! Heck, those in charge when Vandalia was chosen should have thought ahead and been 10 miles more west and quarter mile farther north off the highway and we would still be there.

It's too bad a "Fishburn" wasn't in the mix before the move.

 

El Paso...

Again you need to read up before you post. The ATA could have got the school property which was to the east and adjoined the ATA property. Then they could have kept their own property and let the leased land go.

2 other pieces of property were free in Ohio.

1 of those pieces of property we had to agree to allow the Ohio National Guard to do the work.

You made that statement as if you did not know the Cardinal Center was throwing registered targets before Sparta. Read up! Also the CC did not pop up just with Fishburn. It was a major effort with lovers and volunteers of the sport from many states.

 

Damn, Family guy you should have been in charge.

A "fishburn" means anyone with money to say, hey we will build you something. Well I guess Sparta did.

 

El Paso

Sparta did what?

 

Illinois/Sparta built a range for the ATA.

OK.......

Built a range that the ATA is renting until something better comes along.

 

Not sure Sparta did that. At least you had time to correct yourself.

But we were comparing who built the two places.



You meant the father of Sparta...Rod Blagojevich. The great gun hater. Birds of a feather do flock together.

 

Family, are you implying Fishburn would have built for the ATA/Grand?

 

From what I understand the EC has been told they have no where to go. He did offer to give them a HOF building, deeded land, and deeded access. Too late!

He is doubling the size of the place just for the SCTP and only requiring a one year contract. Out of respect for Mr Fishburn and the group that surround him I would never say what he would do.

CC will never be spoiled by the element that is at the top of the ATA. That element deals best with the Blagojevich's of the world.

 

How is that working out?

 

Nothing better has come along yet the way it looks.

 

Elpaso,

Did you make that picture? I think I have seen that before. It is deceiving within the visual sense, is it on purpose, accident or maybe you don't know why?

You said, "Not that much difference." Using your picture though it is not depicted correctly. Wouldn't the lateral distance of a target at a given perpendiculary distance downrange be about 23% more or a change in lateral velocity of about 23%. Your or whoever's depiction is 5-10% off that mark. Hard to tell with the scale.

There are 3 things that would bring the Handicap game more inline of its stated purpose.

1200fps shells max nominal velocity of any weight shot charge.
Just set a centered 44 degree field and leave it. Get rid of the target angle at 15-20 yards, it is not followed anyway.
44mph targets as measure from the back of the house or 50yd targets or a nominal distance of 50 yards.

I would also enhance a item above. Reduce the max shot charge to 1oz with a 2 3/4 dram or 1180fps nmv load as max. I would establish a social side and a competitive side. Competitive side must use house shells during any event. The social side can use reloads.

Now if you want to keep the current velocity shells as max, using WIN 1250fps as a new standard of max nmv, then you will have to add yardage as Ollie suggests.

 

The State of Illinois jumped at what they thought was the "Goose that laid the Golden Egg" based on the attendance numbers they were given, which were grossly inflated so instead they got screwed ... The ATA paid a lot of money for a Professional service to come up with a list (Due Diligence) that any sight would have to have for it to be considered ... This was when the ATA was talking and considering the purchase of said property, the due diligence went out the window when the ATA and State of Illinois agreed to a 10 year lease (which was extended another 10 years at a later date ) where the State was to collect $3.00 per entry which was added to each and every entry over and above the normal fees ... There were other sites available with low and or no interest loans going to be made available to the ATA and they would be owners, not renters so said property would be an asset of the Association just as the Vandalia, Ohio site was ... I was told ( have it in an old E Mail , if I can find it) the ATA agreed to have 3 shoots per year ( annually) with a minimum number (5,000 ???) of shooters so the State could recoup its investment ... The ATA was all shook up about the thought of there not being a grand for a year or two so everything could be taken into consideration and sorted out before they jumped in head first ... The State of Illinois was eliminated at one point and the folks from Sparta departed the Grand in Ohio, some how this got reversed again and Sparta was it ... There was a lot of speculation that some people got greased to turn it all around again and make it happen , so Sparta was back in the running, many ATA officials ever stated how great Sparta was and they had never been there, but did see pictures of the place ... The State did a rush , rush job to build the facility so there would be a place to host the grand which is part of the reason the place needs major repairs already ... The ATA was told in advance by many members and vendors that they would not be coming to Sparta, and those people got ignored ... The site can't draw a crowd and has lost money and added to the State deficit to the tune of over $23 million dollars over the past 11 years, though the ATA has made money and built a nice slush fund that went from a little over $4 million to over $13 millions dollars ... The State of Illinois modified some restrictions to allow non residents to purchase ammo off site , which has since been reversed again as of last year unless they but a hunting license which adds additional cost to another $35.00 for the non residents who attend if they want to buy their ammo off site ... Some of the ATA EC formed a Corp, (Pull 2012 Inc) and bought and sold a building at a nice profit to the ATA for a local office, that LLC has since been dissolved but is still part of Public record ... More to come , wait and see ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

FG, is it true that you have never been a member of the ATA ?

 

JB.....What do you think?

 

Not sure, in a post on another forum I though you (?) stated you never have shot an ATA target.
I know if was a regular poster on this site, and I was just wondering.
Maybe you know who I"m talking about ?

 

Hunts, no not my pic, was sent to me.
When I say not much difference, I mean that both ways. Could and should have left them at 3 hole equivalent.
I really don't think the 1250 fps shells are all that much help but smarter people than me think so.
I agree with dawg, add 3 more yards.
If you want to lower the 27 yarders scores throw the targets lower and faster this will hurt them far more than a bit wider high slow target.

WPT, "There was a lot of speculation that some people got greased". There is always speculation and it really doesn't do much harm unless it's about someone's good name. Would be about like saying you've heard that all the folks involved with the Phoenix club were a bunch of crooks. I'm sure there were a few good men trying to save it and you maybe were one of them. If someone is a crook and you have positive proof, then it's not speculation.
Re-hashing what was done 10 years ago will do nothing to help things today.
The EC that got us to Sparta are gone. New batch running things now.

 

No......and I dont give a rat's ass. Let's say I never saw a clay target. Works for me. ATA isnt exactly a resume builder anymore.

 

So what you are saying is "Yes" I've never been a member of the ATA.

 

If we have a bad apple from 10 years ago I want to read about him.

I read someone from the EC that was involved with the move was sent to con the NRA into a bad lease deal. The email was posted on site. What did you miss or did you know that?

 

I think your question says more about you and your source than any answer I could give about me.

 

Funny, how a simple Yes or No would work.
If your so proud of being (or not being) a member you wouldn't hide behind your non answer.

 

Please post the part where I implied proud. Read it again.

 

I think I know the answer, no longer worth carrying this any further. Not worth my time or yours. Thanks.

 

Its obvious that some from the planet of kool aid comes to get up dates from time to time and they trot off to tell everyone whats not happening ... Its truly amazing that some people who know nothing, about shooting outside of town claims to have so much insight and knowledge of something they really know nothing about yet boast about it ... The land of Mental Midgets is alive and well though not much changes nor is there anything said that really has any meaning or is based on any genuine knowledge ... Truly amazing and they get to vote ... WPT ... (YAC) ....