Future of Trapshooting

I have been following these forums for a while simply to gain knowledge and information about your average trap shooter. I have learned that most of you are anything but average. Some of the posts are great and some are simply trash. You guys should join FB, it will allow more people to see the shots that you take at each other. I like to believe that most of you guys support the shooting sports and if you exuded half of the amount of energy physically providing support and knowledge of the game to young or new shooters then we would or could preserve a future for the sport. Stop regressing and be proactive! Stop worrying about the damn Grand and think about your local club or organization that participates in the shooting sports. That's where the future is! What will determine the future for trap shooting is YOU! It's up too YOU! I want to let everyone know that “Any views or opinions presented in these forums are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company". I hope there are not any negative thoughts about the Cardinal Center because of these forums. If you have never been to the Cardinal Center then I would like to invite you guys and gals out! We try our hardest to plan and execute the highest quality events throughout the year and would love to have you attend!

Luke

 

Winner of the Buckeye Handicap and Cardinal Classic Handicap getting a golf cart. That is like the good ole days".

 

They are going to be awesome too! Custom all the way!

Luke

 

Hey Luke, after you've been around as long as I have you find that bitching and moaning is basic registered shooting 101. When July gets to Ohio and the CC and all those kids start showing up for the SCTP nationals is when the fun will be. I'm going to predict that within just a few years the SCTP, Trap, Skeet, Sporting Clays, and Pistol & Rifle shooting will be what the CC is known for. Brad

 

The promotional term we are using is Disney World for shooters. We find it appropriate to aquate child like terms in order for trap shooters to comprehend! Lol

 

I quit worrying about the damn grand in 2006.

I see the "king of the Spartans" and duffkjs06 both "liked" the post.

I didn't leave the ata, the ata left me.

 

Luke's sentiment has been what I've been saying all along. If the ATA/Grand left you behind, then so be it, that doesn't mean you have to keep trying to tear it down, and those that enjoy it.

 

Luke, We've always enjoyed being at the CC. And we'll continue to be there as long as Ryan wants to shoot, and if/when my youngest gets big enough to hold a gun up. We can't wait for another great year.

Jim

 

Is the world coming to an end? Flyers and I liking the same post, proving we both support trapshooting regardless of where the ATA's Grand is held.

I've said it before the CC is on my bucket list. Of course even that statement brought hate and discontent from some of you people.

 

Luke,
In all honesty the Cardinal Center grows and supports trapshooting ... If there were places like it , life would be good ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

What a shame a thread titled "Future of Trapshooting" uses the "damn Grand" as a political football.

Again, Trapshooting on a non-ATA level is doing well. Local "League Shoots" and "Meat Shoots" are doing well, and some are even growing in size.

If .... a "League" shooter progresses to where they are breaking 47,48/50, good shooting in most "League Shoots", asks about "taking shooting to the next level" (ATA), they need an honest answer. And that answer is, that level of shooting ability does not have a current place in shoots like the "Grand". It only takes one trip for "League Shooters" to see their scores make them no more than squad fillers. The "Grand/WSRC" has turned into a political football for politicians and shooters, changing the debate about yardage and class corruption into "my place is better than yours". The "Grand" can be on the moon and still have no current place for the "average shooter".

Trapshooting is alive and well, and the "ATA" is on life-support, and as I have said before ... "Trapshooting" does not need the "ATA", but the "ATA" needs "Trapshooting".

"Stop regressing and be proactive!" is taking the debate back to WHAT "ATA" shooting is, and WHAT "Trapshooting" is, but NOT WHERE the "ATA/Grand" shooting is held.

 

I have heard nothing but good about the Cardinal Center. A few picks but that is to be expected. Can`t make everyone happy. So much looking forward to shooting there this year !!!!!!!!!

 

I talked three more locals into making the CC trip this year. Reservations made and they're excited. One is 88 yo, another in the mid 60's and the other a local police chief and a bit younger. I trust CC will do it's part and sell it to them for the future-a no brainer!

 

Luke the Cardinal Center is in the middle of Trapshooters, just where the GRAND used to be, This is a Gun Friendly State, and our Governor passes a budget and the state is not in Debt Like Illinois.

I like it when the State Representatives comes for a visit and does some shooting, Great for Jack and The CC, Luke good luck in the future CC is in it for the Kids, The trapshooters of the future, you're doing a great job, You and Jack are a team.

Jack is doing a great job for Trapshooting and the Youth, God Bless you Jack

I want to see the pond when it is Full, Some friends of mine that shot Sporting Clays at Hocking Valley said you have some trap problems on your sporting Clay Clay course, just for your information.

Trapshooting is not dead in Ohio I personally tell you that in all Honesty, I shoot a lot of trap, Hope weather warms up and the ground gets dry so I can walk the Course on my Prosthetic Left Foot.

Yours in Sport
Gary Bryant.......................................Dr.longshot

 

There was a thread with all kinds of charts, graphs, and squiggly lines showing and proving the point that the average shooter does not have a reasonable chance of beating any of the Top Guns on any sort of consistent basis at the grand and or any other one of the bigger shoots ... This is not to say Bubba or Bubbette average shooter will or can never get lucky and take home the Gold, just that percentages are stacked against it happening, the bigger the shoot the less likely it will happen ... The person who posted it kept records (several years of data) and tallied them to come to the final conclusion that the dream can and sometimes does happen, but ODDs are not in favor of it ... If you look at the number of clinics and the attendance of them you have to realize, if not a way to make a living it sure is a way to add to ones income (substantially) combined with the pay offs at the larger shoots ... Kind of like a Professional teaching the students and then beating them out of their lunch money ... There are many people who make claims about wanting to shot against the best in the world so they can get their hat handed to them, as if that would be a pleasurable experience ... There are many times the Top Guns will not even show for a shoot off being as they have nothing to prove, if they beat you, its expected, if you beat them , you lucked out and had a good day but they still took home the money if you didn't play it ... The big guns would show up if the shoot was in Afganistan, Iran, Dubai, or Syrian and there was enough money in it to make it worthwhile ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Your statement was also true when the Grand was in Ohio wpt, so what's your point?

 

I see Leonidas the Cardinal Center hater and his trusty I hate the CC avatar are here.

To who? Only one person has the I hate the CC avatar.

 

The Odds are with the Young Kentucky Trapshooters, History shows this in recent years, Go youngans

Yours in Sport
Gary Bryant........................................Dr.longshot

 

The future of Trapshooting or any other shooting sport is wholly dependent on development surrounding ranges and zoning laws. Of course Major shooting organizations with lousy leadership is also a major concern. Face it there is a Tsunami of outside forces alignes against the shooting sports and every single one needs enlightened and professional leadership to avoid the coming problems. Good old boys feeding on the memberships assets is more dangerous than any anti gun liberal.

 

Lady T--that is the perfect statement about our sport. It is also a big part of the success of the Cardinal. As long the bad influence from the thugs are kept away from the CC they will grow.

 

Luke
What are the target requirements if any for the golf cart?

 

Leonardis,
It was not my point to begin with, I was just recalling something that was said by a person who professed to know after years of taking and keeping data to back up his findings he even used charts, graphs, and a bunch of squiggly lines to make and support his conclusion ... This stuff goes way beyond my desire to know and or comprehend to be honest ... I thought this person was trying to wipe out other peoples dreams when all he was attempting to do was point out the obvious to people who did not see it as that obvious ... I guess you had to be there so you could really sink your teeth into what he was saying and showing, very interesting I might add ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Luke how many shooters does the SCTP expect for the Trap, Skeet, Sporting, Pistol, and Rifle at the SCTP shoot this July at the CC? Do they expect more or less than last year and do you have any gut feeling yet how many are coming? Do the teams pre register? There's a lot about the SCTP that I don't know so I'm going to have to do some catching up. Brad

 

If you agree with me to "forget about the damn grand" then it just might be the end.

 

FG, we don't quite know how we are going to give the golf cart away but it will be for the Buckeye Championship Handicap. I will keep you posted. Brad, We are looking to have around 2,200-2,500 trap entries, 1,000 Skeet entries, 1,000 Sporting Clay entries, and 500 Scholastic Action Shooting competitors. All in all it will be close to 3,000 individual competitors and well north of 1,000,000 white flyer targets. They will also be shooting handicap, doubles trap, and skeet doubles along with some fun games. These are considered the side events. Also SCTP is teaming up with Kids and Clays to host a two day sporting clays events benefiting both parties. This shoot will be held the last 2 days of the tournament and is open to the public! Its a great way to come be a part of SCTP Nationals and shoot with the kids.

Luke

 

Those numbers would be well north of last years numbers. I would love to see it happen but I'm not sure we will see a 20% increase.
2015
Trap - 2075
Sporting - 825
Skeet - 831

 

Luke, I know there are a bunch on the forum that are waiting for you guys to announce a non-registered shoot.

 

Roger, simply because of the location we (SCTP and CC) expect a 15%-25% increase.

Luke

 

Fantastic Luke I Love It. So will many other shooters, will the Sporting Clays be Handicap/Wheelchair access?

Yours in Sport
Gary Bryant..................................Dr.longshot

 

On the subject of SCTP, what is going to happen with the Cardinal Center Shooters this year since Dale is no longer involved?

 

Luke do you have any idea what the action shooting is all about? When we talked with the SCTP people last month I'm not sure I got the gist of how they do it. I remember they said it's like an action plate shoot or something on that order and that it was 9mm and 22lr in the handgun and that a 22 rifle event was on for this year. Is there a different age structure for handgun and rifle or is it just like the shotgun events we are used too? I'm really interested in the handgun event, in fact I'm going to throw a couple of my 22 pistols and maybe a 10/22 in the truck and try a practice round myself if I get the chance.

I've had several shooters ask me if there will be any opportunity for the regular JOE SHOOTER to try the handguns range anytime, maybe during the the Classic if they can't the sctp week and also what about the skeet? Even though they hate to admit it in a mixed crowd a lot of trap shooters do shoot some skeet for fun. Brad

 

The week of the SCTP Nationals, will there be golf cart rentals available??

 

Luke, can I ask what are you basing your increase projections on? I would be happy if they were able to match the numbers of 2015. Ohio and PA may be the epicenter of the ATA world but its definitely not as far as the SCTP goes. Both states have fewer team than Illinois. States like Wisconsin, Tennessee, and even Iowa rule the SCTP.

Don't take my questioning the wrong way, I am 100% behind the move and looking forward to seeing the Cardinal Center. I've been evolved in the SCTP since 2007 and have taken my team to Nationals every year since 2010, God willing I'll do it for many years to come. My big hope is for this move to kick start PA and Ohio to get more kids involved in the program.

 

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Uncle Sam Eagle Golf Cars is already taking reservations for the event. Their information is available on our website.

 

Someone is coming if campsites are sold out!

 

I think location will have very little to do with any increase. The SCTP continues to grow its program and in my opinion any growth in the National Shoot will have more to do with the total numbers growing than the location of the shoot. I don't have the numbers but would be interested to know if the SCTP has seen a steady growth, on a percentage basis, of shooters attending nationals.

 

The clubs like Cardinal Center, Tucson Trap and Skeet, Lynn Creek etc are the salvation of trapshooting, without them the trapshooting would be dead in the water ... The ATA as it turns out is its own biggest enemy based on the fact they do not promote and do things to preserve the sport like all of the Grass roots clubs ... The ATA can exist on the income derived (daily fees and memberships) from these clubs without the grand, or any other shoots hosted at the WSRC in Sparta, Ill ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

You maybe correct but I tend to disagree with your statement. We have not even had a practice yet and I already see more of my kids/families interested in attending SCTP Nationals this year. Most say the 7 hour trip compared to the 14 hour trip is making the difference.

If it were reversed and the SCTP had moved to San Antonio and I now had a 24 hour trip instead of a 14 hour trip, I know I for a fact I would loose kids/families.

 

What about the kids/families that come form the west of Illinois? There are huge numbers of SCTP shooters in those states, that now have a farther drive.

So, it seems to me, you'll pick up some shooters that have a closer drive, but lose some that have a farther drive. The only constant is the die hards that go where ever the shoot is.

 

I would also add, that because the numbers of SCTP shooters is on a rocket trajectory, I would think the numbers would go up, solely on new shooters. I don't think it matters which venue the shoot is at, it would have the same result.

 

Roger, I just don't think the kids are going to say 'hey, it's at CC this year, let's go'. I guess that is the inference that I got from the comment. That probably wasn't the intent. However, as Duff stated, it will benefit some and be worse for others.

I certainly hope it continues to grow. Just wish they'd move the dates so it wouldn't conflict with my state shoot schedule. I would probably bring a team over.

 

Isn't there somewhere around 1500 shooters between 11-20 in Iowa? And they schedule the state shoot at the same time?

 

Our SCTP shoot is in June. My conflict with the National shoot is the WI State ATA Shoot. The Iowa State ATA shoot is the following week.

 

Duff are you trying to say the SCTP nationals are the same time as the ATA Iowa State shoot? Please clarify.

 

Try reading and understanding post 42, which I thought IOWA guy was talking about the IOWA state shoot, then he clarified. Apparently he was talking about the WISCONSIN state shoot. WISCONSIN only has 1000 shooters between 11-20.

I should mention, before you ask, I'm talking about registered shooters.

 

Thanks for the clarification. Especially for the Iowa State Trapshooting Association. They have been a big supporter of the SCTP and any youth shooting in their state. They would go to great lengths to see their youth have more shooting opportunities not less. They would not move their shoot for the purpose of creating a conflict.

A problem is that many of these states have had their state shoots during the same dates for decades for many local reasons. Wisconsin having their state shoot on the same date as the SCTP should not reflect poorly towards their org either.

 

LadyT.....Trump needs a running mate. You got my vote.