WSRC to Re-Open

From what I was told today.. Sparta is about to re-open and resume shooting events.

Leagues should be starting mid March.. .

Glock shoot to be the first of April

 

I posted this earlier today on my FB page...

 

That is good news FlaLagarto. That will make the MAJORITY of the trapshooter happy, even across Ohio and Pennsylvania.

Kinda strange tho, I thought there would be more celebrating going on on this site!

 

The disappointment to me on this site is the great pleasure a few people take in trying to bad mouth or wish harm on ANY shooting venue.. we as shooters need to support each and every facility to ensure we maintain a strong showing in every area to help keep our sport alive. Many don't realize how much shooting really went on at the WSRC. The Grand was just 2 weeks.. the rest of the year was filled with much more. between the kids, the leagues, not just with trap but with skeet and sporting clays, cowboy action and general pistol.

 

The annual amount of money generated taking into consideration "ALL" of the activity's at the WSRC is claimed to be $1.1 million dollars to cover annual cost of $3.0 million (claimed) , which adds 1.9 million to the budget deficit annually which is already out of sight ... If the WSRC is going to re open it will not be because the State of Illinois, or IDNR, is involved other than in name, they want to be totally separated from any involvement based on posting on the States, web site and posted on this site on threads that pertain to the facility ... The lacking of generated funds / revenues cannot be disputed if you read and or research any of the information available to the public ...
I sincerely hope the WSRC hosts the grand and they have a great turn out, based on lack of information and not knowing if or when it is supposed to happen the ODD's are not in favor of that happening ... Now, it just a matter of how much its going to cost the membership to host a shoot for those who attend, which are the ones who should be assuming total costs for the time of their life experience ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I guess this means we don't have to wait until April 15....

That is a Whew !

Now Punkin will be able to move into her new home...

 

No waiting until April 15. The ATA opened the place without the IDNR and no budget. First major shoot April 1st.

1st annual fool's shoot.

 

Bro,
I saw your posting on FB, wonder if anything has to be confirmed or can they just print the page being as they own (the ATA) the magazine ..? With all of the uncertainty and confusion lingering, one would have to ask that question with justifiable reason and due cause ..? I would prefer to see something that would be legally binding (oopps , never mind , they had that in the form of a lease) so taking all things into consideration to date and my not being gullible any more, I suggest we wait and see ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

There is nothing absolute posted on the ATA (shootata.com) web site as of 2 minutes ago ... Same banner as in the ad ...

 

Nothing posted on the State, IDNR, Ill Gov. Office , or reboot Illinois web sites ... You would think such great news would be scattered all over for the public to see and read ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

That is APRIL FOOLS DAY

 

WRSC will not open till repairs are done,and that will not happen until the Union workers are paid & have materials to do the work, and that ain't happening soon


GB............................DLS

 

No, the state is reopening the facility... and the first major shoot is a Glock shoot.. when did the ATA start doing pistol shoots??

 

True... the notice said not till mid to late March

 

February 17, 2016

Full text: Rauner's budget addressComments Print

Chicago Public Schools City of Chicago Bruce Rauner Education Finance Infrastructure More +

Photo by Bloomberg
(AP) — Illinois Gov. Bruce Rauner is giving lawmakers his spending plan for next fiscal year, even though the protracted budget battle over the current year isn't close to playing out. Illinois is in its eighth month without a budget, and is running up a huge tab because the state has been ordered by courts to keep many essential services running.

Related: Greg Hinz: Rauner decries budget war, but sticks to his 'Turnaround' guns

The sticking points in the Republican governor's battle with the Democrats haven't changed: He wants to overhaul term limits, change how legislative districts are drawn and curb union power. Democrats say what Rauner wants needs to be debated separately from the budget.

Here's the transcript of the address, as prepared for delivery.





Members of the General Assembly,

Thank you for your service.

I stand before you today with respect for our co-equal branches of government – acknowledgment of our shared responsibility for the future – and a deeply-rooted desire to work with each and every one of you to right our ship of state.

Although we succeeded last year in eliminating an inherited $1.6 billion budget hole without a tax hike, we are now in our 8th month without a state budget – and court orders are forcing us to spend beyond our means.

Shocking, yes. Acceptable, not even close.

For more than two decades, we've had unsustainable unbalanced budgets, undisciplined spending, increased borrowing from retirees and vendors, rising taxes, inadequate infrastructure investment, massive manufacturing job losses, and stagnant family incomes. Dismal economic performance.

The truth is, we haven't had a truly balanced budget in Illinois for decades. In ways both obvious and hidden, we've overspent, and raised taxes to cover it.

To win elections, politicians from both parties made promises to special interests that the state could never afford – unaffordable pension promises that are bankrupting our state.

Adding to the damage has been the cost of delay, the penalty we pay for kicking the can down the road by not paying for our promises when they were made. Postponing the day of reckoning is taxing delayed, only with a steeper price, and increased pain for our working families, when the bill finally comes due.

Years of unpaid bills – with their punishing 12% interest rates – have cost taxpayers more than $1 billion in interest.

Worse: Delaying pension contributions through a slow ramp, which didn't pay in the actuarially required amount each year, was the equivalent of borrowing from the pension funds at an 8% interest rate – which is the long term yield on pension assets.

Eight percent is a stunningly high interest cost for our taxpayers to bear – that's the rate you pay on junk bonds! Illinois taxpayers owe an additional $40 billion to the pensions because of this hidden borrowing scheme.

Our costs of government have grown rapidly, while our tax base – families and companies who pay for it all – is declining. Illinois today has fewer jobs and lower family incomes than we had in 1999. Think about that. Absolutely shocking. Unacceptable! Our people deserve so much better.

Raising taxes without addressing the costs of government, and improving the business climate of our state, merely drives families and jobs out of Illinois. In the years after the last tax hike in 2011, Illinois lost $3.7 billion of taxable income. After the last tax increase, Illinois' credit rating was downgraded to the lowest in the nation. Our pension liability went UP $28 billion. School funding was cut. The finances in the City of Chicago and Chicago Public Schools deteriorated. And now we lag the nation in job creation.

That experience showed us that a tax hike by itself is just part of an endless cycle of increased spending, borrowing and higher taxes – a cycle that drives people and jobs out of Illinois.

We have to break out of this downward cycle – and build a positive cycle of cost savings and job growth.

We must look beyond annual savings, and focus on changing long term trajectories.

We already know what won't work.

For one thing – this year cannot become a re-run of last year.

Twelve months ago, I proposed a budget with $6 billion in cuts, and it was quickly rejected by the legislature. I offered to work together to find a compromise, but our reform proposals were ignored.

Instead, Democratic legislators passed a spending plan that was more than $4 billion out-of-balance, and I had to veto it.

Democrats won't support enough spending cuts to live within our current revenues, and you won't vote to raise taxes to cover your deficit spending unless Republicans agree to support your tax hike.

I won't support new revenue unless we have major structural reforms to grow more jobs and get more value for taxpayers. I'm insisting that we attack the root causes of our dismal economic performance.

Those are the dynamics.

That leaves us with only two choices: either you give the executive branch the authority to cut spending to live within our revenues. Or, we agree – together – on economic and governmental reforms, to accompany a negotiated balance of spending reductions and revenue, that ensures that Illinois can be both compassionate and competitive.

You choose. But please, choose now.

Let's stop wasting time by voting on spending bills you know must be vetoed – and then doing it again and again and again.

The people of Illinois are sick and tired of this – they want us to work together, not watch another pointless cycle of votes and vetoes.

The people have been waiting long enough.

I stand ready to negotiate with each and every one of you – 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

The people of Illinois want action. The time to act is NOW.

A few weeks ago, one Democratic legislator – someone for whom I have a great deal of respect – told the media that the solution to our problems must include several things: reforms, cuts and revenues.

Quote: “Those are the levers that have to be pulled in order to get out of this, and it's just not that hard if reasonable people come together.”

She is right – everyone in this chamber must come together in the spirit of compromise and bipartisanship.

Let's work together to enact a bipartisan, balanced budget with a mix of reforms, cost reductions and revenue – just as that Democratic lawmaker suggested.

And by reforms, I mean REAL reforms that will allow Illinois to grow jobs, expand our tax base and steadily reduce the total tax burden on Illinois families.

The reforms we've put forward would make our government more efficient and save taxpayers money.

We've introduced procurement reform to save half a billion dollars in the coming fiscal year alone. We have begun the work to sell the Thompson Center and save hundreds of millions. And we are negotiating a new labor contract that is fair to both state employees and taxpayers – to save hundreds of millions of dollars this year and $3 billion over the next three years.

Since last spring, we've been bargaining in good faith with all of the public sector unions whose members serve in state government. We are negotiating on behalf of taxpayers who pay their salaries; on behalf of school children, the vulnerable, and the elderly, whose services depend on taxpayer funds. I am negotiating for all of them.

Our government employees are terrific people. They deserve to be well paid. And under our proposal, they will still be the highest paid state workers in the Midwest.

In the end, I know we will have an agreement that is good for state workers and good for taxpayers. Political attempts by the legislature to intervene at the 11th hour, and alter a binding contract, are a direct attack on Illinois taxpayers – a direct attack on all the people across Illinois whose services depend on state funding. We simply can't afford to increase the cost of our bureaucracy by three billion dollars. Legislation to force that kind of spending, and blow a giant hole in our budget, will be vetoed.

Three weeks ago, during the State of the State address, I said I would support President Cullerton's pension plan as a first step toward major pension reform – and I urged this legislature to pass it without delay.

President Cullerton's pension reform can save taxpayers a billion dollars a year starting in fiscal 2018.

Our administration lawyers met with Senate staff and made clear we will support whatever legislative language President Cullerton wants to use.

Unfortunately, as of today, no bill has even been introduced. Now is the time to set politics aside and do what is right for taxpayers. No more delays. No more stalling.

We also have to implement structural reforms that lower the cost of government, while generating revenue through economic growth.

There's a perception among some of you that the Turnaround reforms we've put forward won't help our budget crisis. That they're quote “non-budget” items. That they don't matter enough to move the needle. That they'd do more harm than good. Well, nothing could be further from the truth.

Workers' compensation reform and lawsuit reform. Mandate relief, consolidation, local control of bargaining and bidding to drive down property taxes. These reforms will provide many billions of dollars every year in government cost savings. But even more critically, they'll help our economy grow faster by rebuilding job creators' confidence in our state. More businesses, more jobs, more people working and paying taxes.

Right now, middle class families face crushing property tax burdens – they see factory workers in Indiana, Iowa, Wisconsin and Texas making more than here in Illinois – and they see jobs and opportunity fleeing our state. I'm fighting for those middle class families every single day.

To create jobs and raise incomes, we've got to change our state's reputation as being hostile to business. If our workers comp costs were in line with the median; if our tort system was typical of most states; if our property taxes were average for America; if our government had long-term fiscal discipline with structural balanced budgets that restore confidence in our financial future – then Illinois would become much more attractive to business – and our economic growth rate would rise from the bottom.

According to the Illinois Department of Revenue, if our state's economy had grown at just the national average over the last 15 years, we would have generated $19 billion in additional revenue – even without the 2011 tax hike.

Just think about that. Today, we'd have no bill backlog with a billion dollars of interest payments. No budget crisis. And billions more for our schools, human services and infrastructure.

The true solution to fixing our budget is to raise revenue by expanding our tax base and growing our economy – not by raising taxes and driving more jobs and families out of our state.

My point is this: we need to change the way we think about the budget. This isn't a binary choice between program cuts and revenue increases.
This is about economic growth and opportunity – a more efficient government with more value for taxpayers – a better future for everyone in Illinois.

When we adopt reform – and our economy grows – and the cost of government shrinks – at that point, no matter what mix of spending cuts and revenue we consider in the short term, the overall tax burden on Illinois families will decline for years to come.

To take this path, we don't have to enact every item of our Turnaround Agenda in their current forms, but we must pass REAL reforms this year.

The savings for taxpayers from our Turnaround reforms would increase over time and could be many billions of dollars a year – potentially much larger than our current annual deficit.

Even if we only implemented a portion of these recommendations, in a few years we'd have a balanced budget without a tax hike, and we'd have billions of dollars in surplus funds to invest in our schools, our human services, and our infrastructure.

We'd be putting a priority on the next generation, not the next election.

Let us commit today to working together to enact a reform agenda, alongside a responsible, compassionate budget that together forms a sensible long-term financial future for the state.

For a year now, I've believed with all my heart that this common-sense approach could win majorities in both the House and Senate – if everyone was willing to compromise.

But as elected officials, you have to deal with political realities. Primary elections. Special interests. Campaign supporters.

If, in the end, you won't compromise on the reforms we've proposed – and if you're unwilling to work with us to enact a balanced budget with a mix of reform, cost reductions and revenue – we still must fulfill our shared responsibility to enact a balanced budget.

No reform means we cannot in good conscience raise taxes on the hard-working families of Illinois. Instead, cuts will have to be made.

If that becomes necessary, I would ask the legislature to work with us to make these tough decisions.

If you are not willing to do that, then give the Executive Branch the flexibility to reallocate resources and make reductions to state spending as necessary.

The Unbalanced Budget Response Act would put everything on the table to help us balance our budget – everything except funding for early childhood education and General State Aid to our schools. To balance the budget without reform, we'll have to take a microscope to every other category of state spending.

You've given emergency budget authority to governors in the past – other states have too – and no one can dispute that we have an emergency on our hands. It's not my preferred course of action. It wouldn't solve our long-term challenges. But it would, at the very least, allow us to stop digging the hole deeper.

No matter which of these paths you choose – we must make the education of our children our top priority. The one thing I won't back down on – the one thing that's non-negotiable for me – is increasing education funding.

That is why Leader Durkin and Leader Radogno will be introducing a standalone appropriations bill for early childhood education and our K-12 schools.

No matter how this session unfolds, send that education bill to my desk – CLEAN – NO GAMES – and I'll sign it immediately.

The greatest investment we can make as a community is in our children. And the earlier we begin, the bigger the return.

That is why our budget for early childhood education increases state support by $75 million, a nearly 25 percent increase. With that level of funding, we'd keep more than 85,000 kids in preschool and create 2,900 more full-day preschool slots.

The $393 million this budget proposes investing in early childhood education is the most in state history – and will allow us to make giant strides towards ensuring every child in Illinois enters Kindergarten with a chance to succeed.

We have a new Executive Director at the Governor's Office of Early Childhood Development – Kelley Washington – and I want to recognize her presence here today.

Our budget also proposes fully funding the General State Aid foundation level for the first time in seven years.

This will mark the most state money we've ever invested in our school funding formula, and eliminate the need for any proration – a practice that has forced teachers, administrators and school boards to make cuts that negatively impact our kids.

We must fully fund this foundation level as a first step toward reforming our school funding formula. Our current formula doesn't meet the needs of our children. Past attempts to fix the formula didn't work because they pitted communities against each other.

This year, we are already seeing this cynical strategy being deployed. After years of financial mismanagement, our largest school system is threatening a lawsuit against the state. Such a course could set back funding formula reform for years to come, and ignores reality.

Not only did Chicago Public Schools ask for the current arrangement, they are benefiting from a special deal. CPS receives an extra $600 million more every year than school districts with similar student demographics. Any school funding reform proposal that involves taking money from one school district and giving it to another, is doomed to fail.

To achieve formula changes, we must increase state support for education so that no community has state funding taken away as part of reform. I pledge to work with you on this issue to find a bipartisan way forward. But – nothing should delay the General Assembly from funding early childhood education and K-12 schools for the coming fiscal year.

I restate my request – send me that appropriations bill right away – CLEAN – NO GAMES – to give our schoolchildren, our parents, and our teachers the security of knowing that education is our top priority.

Send me that education bill for students all across Illinois – students like Diamond Jackson. Diamond is a student leader at Springfield Southeast High School – she's a student board member for District 186 – she's a rising star and she's with us here today. Thank you for joining us here, Diamond.

Send me that education bill so that every student like Diamond has the opportunity to succeed.

Send me that bill for teachers around the state like Kim Thomas from Peoria. Kim is the 2016 Illinois Teacher of the Year – and she's here with us today. Kim, thanks for all you do.

Send me that bill right away, and make sure teachers like Kim have the resources they need to give our kids a world class education.

Ladies and gentlemen, the paths before us are well-defined. Now it's time to choose.

With my hand outstretched – with a genuine desire to compromise – with respect – I humbly ask you to join me in transforming our state for the better.

Turnarounds are about changing direction. From loss to growth. From decline to expansion. From deficit to surplus. For the economy. For jobs. For taxpayers. For our children. For our future.

Right now, we're headed in the wrong direction. We need to work together to change the trajectory.

If we do this– if we come together to fix our long-term challenges – we will deliver world class education to every child in Illinois – no matter where they live or where they came from.

If we do this– if we come together to fix our long-term challenges – we will support the human services safety net on which so many depend.

If we do this– if we come together to fix our long-term challenges – we will lead the nation in the 21st century in economic growth, job creation and infrastructure – the envy of the world – the engine of North America once again.

We CAN do this. We MUST do this. Every hard working family across this great state deserves no less.

Let's get this done TOGETHER.

God bless you. God bless the State of Illinois. And God bless the United States of America.




There is NO budget for the WSRC to be included in, they are head butting and NOTHING is happening (plus or minus) ... There is nothing on any of the States , IDNR, ATA, WSRC , Reboot Illinois, or any other web site that would surely be broadcasting such great news if the WSRC is going to re open for any shooting ... Talk, Talk, Talk, blow smoke up A__ , butt not mine please ... Speculation at best, nothing in writing or on paper ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

OMG !!! the WRC is opening !!!! How could this be, everyone knows all these poster on Crap Talk can't be that wrong, the horrors.
Damn, old Doc is going to have to go back on his Med's. Just what will we talk about, it sure won't be Trap Shooting, not on this forum.
Could this mean the death of americantrapshooter as we know it ???
What, we're all out of KoolAid too !!!, Oooooooooooooooh the humanity !!

 

It's been little more than a waste of bandwidth since Joe decided to build his own dock and cast for the malcontents...

 

Yeppers....malcontents. Shootokill the leader of the malcontents can now shoot pistols at the WSRC. That is what is important isnt it.? Pistol shooting.

Guessing that Shootokill was focused on jb with his post. Another malcontent as per shootokill.

Tell me guys with all this good news about the WSRC will you start reloading for your big pistol shoot? I understand a Glock shoot is forthcoming.

Wasn't Glock to be romoved from the WSRC?

And thanks for beefing up our count today. Another pistol shoot or 2 would be great for business.

 

The Good DR. needs a good stiff drink on this one!! Too much R12 in the system.

 

It's yeppirs

 

Cheerleaders for the WSRC must understand that this token pistol shoot certainly is not your end game. Could someone please list the vendors that will be at big reopening for the pistol shoot sponsored by the ATA?

FlaLargarto gets it. League shooting and a pistol shoot cannot be the big prize.

Good enough for shootokill but he is a self-proclaimed malcontent.

 

yeppers
interjection

• "yes".Question: Did you see that movie last week?
  
  Answer: Yeppers!
  • See more words with the same meaning: yes, agreements (statements of).

================================

Search Results for yeppirs
In the slang dictionary:
Exact matches
Sorry, there are no terms exactly matching yeppirs in the slang dictionary.

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There are no terms that are close matches to yeppirs in the slang dictionary.

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There are no thesaurus categories whose names contain yeppirs.

 

Tell me Family Guy, wpt and others. When it opens, and shoots take place, pistol, Cowboy Action, Skeet and Trap, and the Grand is held and attended by all the ATA members who enjoy it, will you all put on your big boy pants and comeback here and admit and how sorry you are for all the doom and gloom you posted over nothing.
Something I'd expect real men to do. It sure will be interesting.

 

How many members is that?

 

JB63....have they started negotiations yet for a new lease? As per the doom and gloom hasnt the damage been done? We have lost over 1/2 of our members due to the move to Sparta.

The CC saved the SCTP in the fall when the Collegiate Championships were abandoned by the WSRC.

So really JB....who is the negative bastard? Not you? Your friend shootokill labeled you as a malcontent. Not my words. But it shows what a man you are.

 

Getting shooting of ANY kind started up again is a good sign. I'm sure for many of the politicians in Illinois this is a tough decision. Hopefully the WSRC can hire a solid person to fill the Executive Director position and get some events scheduled. It's too nice of a facility to just let it sit. I never want to see a gun club close so let's all hope that the WSCR doesn't have to go through this again!

 

I think you need to reread shootkill, he's not talking about me, maybe that's your problem, reading comprehension.
Well we'll just have to wait and see what real men do when made to eat crow. .

 

jb63....you thanked the CC for saving the SCTP shoot last fall right? Or were you a "negative bastard" then too? Your words.

Tell us now how the move to Sparta helped the ATA and trapshooting in general JB. You cant as it didnt. You are only here to be negative. As always.

As per your pal shootokill. I am sure you knew exactly what he meant. Two negative people alike. Here only to offend. Like all your posts. Like you. Like a negative bastard. (your words)

 

Could be shootokill and JB are the same person...............hmmmmm

 

Sorry FG, that was not me, although I have the highest regards for SCTP program. Even donted $$ to them.
Not shootkill, he is someone different too.
Maybe we'll meet some day at the CC, doubt it'll be at Sparta, but then maybe someday you can shoot there too.
Headed to the Southern Grand, so have fun and I hope the sun shines on you and the wind is at your back during the next shoot.

 

I've never attended a pistol shoot at the WSRC.. can someone tell us how many they have had in the past at this type of shoot?

Excluding the Grand.. non of the trap shoots that I've attended drew a lot of vendors.. (US Open, SCTP Kids)

 

Hey,I was adopted and just might be a "bastard". You want to take this littler gem down or do you want me to do it for you?

I don't care about your crowing that the place is going to be REopen. You can post that all day long. You can also post the huge number of "all the ATA members who enjoy it".
You and I both know the number SUCKS but if you think it is great that it is only half or less what it used to be that's your problem But that word has to go.

 

I"ve seen worse posted here, do what you must do, or change it to curmudgeons.

 

Heh, don't be so sensitive! Someone even asked me the other day where you bought that 25 straight flyers pin and I called him some names too. Please assure me I'm not turning into another Donald Trump-my idol!

 

You posted it. YOU take it down or YOU change it.

And please copy and post what you think is worse.

 

You don't have to defend me. If they don't know how hard it is they really don't matter.

 

Boy, everybody thought I was bad. Be nice gentlemen this is a public forum and we have the SCTP and AIM TEAMS Reading posts here.

Sounded like Neil Winston Was Back

Gary Bryant........................................Dr.longshot

 

I know how hard it is because I don't own one. None from Hegins, Powderbourne or Pikeville. Maybe at the State Shoot this year-see ya there!

 

Can't put a pigeon in the 2 hole, no participation ribbons in live bird shooting, not for today.s AAs to hard. Go Trump Brad

 

I was hoping to make it but work always gets in the way. Before, I had the time and not the money. Now I have the money and not the time.

 

Yo Brad, I know you shot one or two live birds. How many of those 25 straight pins do you possess?

 

Ollie Brad has so many 25-59-75-100 straight pins, Ribbons, Trophys, Table Settings Etc he has them packed up in boxes, only has the Big Ones on Display from very Memorable Shoots and Clubs,, I forgot the Belt Buckles.

Good shooting Brad

Thanks to you and Don I got a Brick in the CC Walk Of Fame

Gary Bryant............................................Dr.longshot

 

Longshot still alive...how's the Crow Supper taste? You and ol Merlo sleeping in the same bunk tonight with a bottle of Crown and leftover Crow.

 

Federal,
What prediction did merlo make? What prediction did you make? Fill me in.

I never saw Merlo make one. Just a reader here. What did i miss?

 

Yo doc, we're talking live birds-not clay birds!

 

It is not strange you thought that way. You act like a village idiot. This is a trapshooting site. The announcement of a Glock shoot wont get my blood moving. And you cant figure out why?

 

(sarcasm on)

You got that right, they are only holding a pistol shoot there, then closing back up. Should only be a few hours.

(sarcasm off)

 

You couldn't find your "big boy pants" and apologize for acting like a child and calling me a "bastard" so I fixed it for you.

You have a problem with that?

I "expect" you to take another look for those big boy pants and post an apology if you offended anyone with that word.

As far as the doom and gloom over NOTHING?

I thought that the CLOSING OF THE PREMIER SHOOTING FACILITY IN THE WORLD was a little more than NOTHING.

You had better direct any complaints to the governors office, newspapers, news websites, and anyone that only REPEATED what was REPORTED about the PREMIER SHOOTING FACILITY IN THE WORLD being CLOSED because it COST THE STATE too much money.

I didn't pick the lousy location that was farther away from most of the shooters. I didn't screw up the cap system or try and make some people, you included, feel better about paying their dues and FEES by buying trophies for all the people they are trying to keep paying their fees. I didn't water down the grand by having all the other "satellite grands". I didn't have to ASK FOR HELP FROM "SIGNATURE SPONSORS" because the money wasn't flowing in.

I assume that since the facility has been REopened the ata won't need any of the "Signature Sponsor" money. Everything is just fine now. The state HAS MAGICALLY COME UP WITH ALL THE MONEY THEY NEED. You and your buds that post on that old worn out site can go enjoy that shoot in August without it costing you one cent more.

Of course the ata just might foot the bill and have to use that "signature sponsor" money so they don't have to raise fees and show you ata lovers how things aren't really all that peachy. I hope it cost you a LOT more. You like it there, PAY for it.

YOU might get all warm and fuzzy going to sparta and shooting what they call the GAH but about 2500 other people don't bother going, and haven't since it moved to the PREMIER LOCATION.

Remember, you people NEVER THOUGH IT WOULD CLOSE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Let's see what happens in the months leading up to that shoot in August.

 

The IDNR/ WSRC has posted the Annual schedule of events at the facility every years since it opened ...The most amount of days they have been able to account for is 123 day of use which has generated $1.1 million dollars compared to the $3 million it cost to maintain the facility ($1.9 upside down) ... The IDNR/ WSRC has not posted anything with a schedule as of yet, but have no doubt it will be coming soon for all to see so everyone can make plans to attend some of the events and enjoy the hospitality of rural America ... The old "one day at a time" should be given all due consideration , but what about next year ..? If the uncertainly and not knowing going to be an annual event it will deplete interest in a damn quick hurry and people will find other places to go and things to do ... I am sure the "Glock Shoot" could be researched to see if it also is and has been an annual event at the facility ... There were many days of use and events cancelled with the unexpected closure of the WSRC which might have a negative impact in the future unless some major concessions are made to the folks who's events got cancelled or eliminated due to the closure ... The Shuttering of the facility no doubt had a rippling effect and no body knows just how bad it will impact use of the facility until its attempted and the results get tabulated ... ($3,000,000 minus $1.1 million (generated income) = $1.9 million deficit annually ) ... If there was a business plan and this is it, it would be considered to be a poor one ( page 1 , Chapter 1, business 101 , right before , location, location, location ) Take it up Virgil ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

You are in the minority here Don.

Nothing would make the majority of the posters here more happy then having the WSRC close.

 

Spectac
No one here closed your favorite venue. No one here created the attendance problems. Not even Illinois supports your venue. Look a little bit closer to home for your issues.

Attendance and trapshooting is great in PA and OH.

Best of luck with the blame game tho.

 

I'm not concerned so much if it closes or stays open my concern is the ATA spending more than it takes in. If Sparta works, so be it but if things continue in the losing cycle soon the state will look to the ATA to make up the WSC financial losses. I had a premium spot for ten years and it just got a little smaller and a more poorly maintained over time. For me its a money issue that no one seems to be able to afford. Time will tell.

 

It's too late to close the gate after the cows get out.

Vandalia is gone and it's not coming back.

Sparta was the place and it's had it's hiccup. Hopefully it can open and stay open now. If it can succeed it will be the place for the Grand.

I am glad that it is supposed to reopen. Any place to shoot is better than no place to shoot. And if we don't support it , and it doesn't stay open, what shooting venue is the next to close?

 

" look to the ata to make up the financial losses" just might be sooner than some think.

And the ata looks to whom or what to pick up that tab?

Signature SPONSERS?
Or a "little extra" in fees?

Probably neither since the place is going to REopen and ALL the money needed to KEEP it open FOREVER is back in the states budget.

 

In 2004, the ATA notes in the Average Book the following figures:
1. 34,920 ATA members
2. 6,613 registered tournaments
3. 84,806,630 total targets thrown
4. 1,096 registered ATA gun clubs

The 2014 Average Book has the following numbers :
1. 28,212 ATA members
2. 6,252 registered tournaments
3. 56,552,155 total targets thrown
4. 850 registered ATA gun clubs

Copied from History Buffs posting on another thread and reprinted , does any one see a problem (eyes wide shut) ..? The ATA claims to promote trapshooting which does not seem to be the case according the the figures and the gradual decline in 10 short years and before ... What ever they are doing, they should try just the opposite, this is not working ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Spectacularsparta,

Being able to post thoughts and ideas that may be contrary to others without fear of reprisal is one of the things that help a forum succeed. I know that there are posters here that really want the WSRC to fail, that I can't understand or support. Then there are those that want the ATA to fail and mistakenly group the WSRC in with the ATA. I have always thought that WE the shooters are the ATA so I don't want to see it fail either, but changes must be made if the ATA is to survive.

During my time on the OSTA Board I witnessed decisions made by the leaders of the ATA that ran the gamut from just plan silly to detrimental to all registered shooting and finally to things that may yet be deemed outright criminal activity. I was privy to information and conversations that were never meant for anyone's ears other than EC members. Things like adding categories to keep family members on the AA team, changing the shooting year start/stop dates despite its negative impact on Northern States, the spiteful action of capping AA points at State shoots (aimed specifically at PA and Ohio) and yes even the highly questionable lease / purchase of the current ATA offices.

I was certainly not bashful about voicing my opinion to the leaders of the ATA at the time. I'm sure Doc Rively remembers well our heated conversation regarding the "accidental omission" of the Jaqua's ad in the Grand program the year they got screwed on the Central Zone shoot and decided not to host.

I could go on for hours about the dumbass decisions I witnessed but it won't change a thing. At this point I am content to shoot when I can and enjoy the sport while I can. I still hold out hope that a few good men will regain control of the ATA and get it going in a positive direction once again. I know full well there will be posters on this site that will agree with my hopes, and there will be posters that say it will never happen and the ATA is done. To each his own!

 

Don, that was a well thought out response and the points that you make are most accurate.

Some of the staunchest supporters of the WSRC share your feelings about the direction the
ATA has taken. I, like so many others, am able to separate the two entities and realize that we can ill afford to have any shooting facility close.

I have never missed a Cardinal shoot until last year when they added additional shoots. The Buckeye, State and Cardinal Classic are always on my schedule every year. In fact, that is where I first met you outside the registration building when Brad was running the shoot. You were absolutely charming and I enjoyed our conversation.

I also go out of my way to say hello to Brad and make a point of petting the Brittney's down at the store.

If there was ever a chance that the Cardinal would close I would give as much support to keeping it open as I have for keeping the WSRC in business. Sadly, there are those that would be thrilled if the Cardinal fell on hard times. They are just as tragic as those here who long for the WSRC to fail.

And last, I know there are many that rave about the food choices at the Cardinal. If your sandwich shop ever showed up with a food truck or trailer I bet you would do land office business. That Subway across from the entrance is a mad house at lunch time during the shoots. And we all know they cannot compare with the quality of your franchise.

 

Don makes great points and I understand completely everything he's saying. I just have real concerns the size of the WSC and the location are going to be compatible with the future. The facility is great and offers much for all disciplines but I don't think it's getting the support from all the disciplines it was designed for, which equates to a financial shortfall each year for the state. I know many could care less if the state continues to lose money but that won't secure the future shooters are hoping for. There are fewer competitions now than before and leagues and practice rounds aren't the answer. If the number of ATA registered shooters is in decline perhaps our sights on large facilities with large financial demands might not work. Only time will tell. Perhaps more thought could go into supporting the smaller clubs and assisting them in gaining new shooters. The ATA appears to be fully focused on the Grand and Satellite Grands.

 

I don't think many (most) people would debate the points that Don made, cost was not mentioned which should and would be a concern if it does not at least break even regardless of who is paying the bills ... The State of Illinois cannot continue to fortify anyone if all they are going to do is continue to add to the deficit in doing so nor would it make sense, sooner or later someone will wake up and smell the coffee ... I do not have a clue what the other shooting venues deals were but do know the State claims generated income annually off of the facility (123 days of use total) at $1.1 million dollars and claim it cost them $3 million to maintain it, does not take a Genius to figure out that is a PROBLEM ... The small grass roots clubs have always been the supporters of the ATA by collecting daily fees and promoting shooters to encourage more shooters to join ... The ATA could manage to stay afloat if there was never another grand american trap shoot but would have to cut some corners and get back in touch with reality, no more free guns and all expense paid vacations for the EC and some of the BOD to attend shoots of their choice ... The Sporting Clays and Skeet Associations have homes, why would they take a chance and leave them to go to Sparta which has proven it cannot and does not draw a crowd as expected ... Location is Rule number one, after that comes location , location, and then location ... If this year is any example of what and how things are going to go at the WSRC (every year) in Sparta, it will be a short lived relationship in a damn quick hurry ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I believe Seitz9010 is on the right track for helping the WSRC. Utilization of the entire facility, not just trapshooting, is essential to keeping a facility that large afloat. That is where a new Executive Director of the complex can have a huge impact. Sporting clays, skeet, pistol and rifle competitions in addition to trapshooting will all help. Then there are all the uses that don't involve shooting such as car, boat and RV shows, or any event that calls for lots of space. The taxpayers in Illinois deserve to have someone in there that is really trying to generate revenue to help offset costs.


Spectacularsparta, thanks for your kind words and your support for all registered shooting. Perhaps we should start a different thread and toss around some ideas that might actually help the ATA grow and prosper.

 

If cost factors are not confronted, nothing else matters and the business will not last ... No more problem ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WSRC I believe was built to help the local Southern Illinois economy. Not to satisfy the ATA. it just so happened that the ATA needed a place to have the events. I don't know the financial deals or if there even was one between the ATA and the IDNR. Also don't really care if there was.
I do know that Vandalia is gone and it's not coming back. Ohio didn't step up and give them a place to replace Vandalia.
I hear and read that the majority of ATA members are east of the Mississippi River and I am pretty sure Illinois is east of the Mississippi River just just closer to it than Ohio.
Regardless of the way the ATA does business, it is to my knowledge the only entity that provides a way to register trap targets. For a measly $20 a year. Yeah, $20 a year.
Stop bitching, come to Sparta or don't. I don't care. Those who come will have a great time with out you!

 

"Regardless of the way the ATA does business,"

There ya go. THAT sentence pretty much epitomizes the reason the "Kool-Aid" tag got started.

"come to Sparta or don't. I don't care"

Apparently neither do the THOUSANDS of dues paying members that DON'T shoot the GAH in sparta.

If I only lived a little over hour from there, as you do, I MIGHT think about checking it out. But since it is 10 times that, I won't.

 

The place was built to buy votes to elect convicted felon Blagojevich. Once in office he removed much of the funding for the IDNR.

He was guest of honor at opening day and gave a famous I hate guns speech a few days later. Welcome to the land of I hate guns and Chicago politics. Flame away as I dont post here much.

 

How many thousands of ATA members didn't shoot the Grand when it was in Vandalia?

I don't think it would matter where the Grand is held, there will be thousands of members not attend for whatever reason.

If you guys really hate the ATA, then start a new association to register targets and quit complaining.

You're beating a dead horse!

 

"I don't think it would matter where the Grand is held, there will be thousands of members not attend for whatever reason."

Sure, out of all the members, THAT ARE LEFT, thousands would not be able to shoot the GAH.

But if it wasn't in sparta IL. there would probably be a couple thousand more that would. The numbers for the GAH have just sucked.

 

In 2004 3,738 shooters shot the Grand American Handicap. That was the approximate average # for the previous 4 years. Compare that to last year in Sparta and wait'll this year to see if continues downward. The 5,000 in 1999 was an anomaly!

 

Could the economy since 2008 have been a factor?
The price of fuel and shells alone slowed down a lot of shooting I'm sure.

 

Hi Pumpgun

I enjoy answering that question. I lived thru the following. From a previous post:

Those people from Ohio and PA that used to flock to Vandalia can tell you about bad economic times and shooting trap.

Some may remember the hyper-inflation under Nixon but Vandalia and trapshooting was getting bigger.

Carter and his malaise and double digit unemployment and the fuel shortage hit the Midwest hard. Of course it was another banner era for trapshooting.

One of the worst days for the Vandalia and the trapshooting lands was the Monday the steel mills closed in Ohio and PA. Another great year for trapshooting. One of the biggest.

Black Thursday and the stock market crash and the following recession did not stop trapshooting.

The next big crash was the dot com crash. Hurt everything but trapshooting. Vandalia hardly blinked.

We have been reminded on occasion how well the sport did during the great recession. Darn good.

All those bad times above we call the golden age of trapshooting. The good 'ole days.

Then came the move. Not even trapshooting could overcome that.


I am not saying Illinois does not deserve to have Sparta. Only that the move nearly killed off the sport.

 

We have not seen a new contract yet, as the original one was voided by IDNR, there has not been a budget signed to get employees of IDNR paid and the Electric bill paid, these are state expenses

GB...........................................DLS

 

What a lot of ATA members do not realize is the position the Present ATA management has put us in, so many non-bid contracts let out. Just look at that Horse Barn that is supposed to be a Building that Bears Signifince of a HOF. Compare it to the Football HOF in Canton, that supposedly cost less.

Gary Bryant...................................Dr.longshot

 

The only way I see the WSRC opening is a lot of money spent by the ATA for repairs that are/were un-needed because of poor workmanship allowed by Project Manager Mike Hampton., I will call the WSRC THE HAMPTON PROJECT./Money Pit. The sooner the ATA vacates Sparta the better the sport will be.

Holding the Grand American in East and West coast alternating years at Large Clubs, No Facility is needed in this day and age. We already have the Large Gun Clubs.

Gary Bryant...................................Dr.longshot

 

The ATA just needs to rent those clubs for approx. 10 days, The Clubs are not going to pay the ATA to have the GA, it's the ATA Expense, no property taxes, no upkeep, just look at the positives.

Gary Bryant......................................Dr.longshot

 

PumpgunBOB,
Before the WSRC became a reality several as in many people shouted Don't come , we don't need you, we will be just fine with out all of the naysayers, don't rain on our parade , etc ... The fact is they DO need anybody and everybody who is a member or potential member to show up and bring money , so your statement only goes against what is needed to make things work out ... There are a lot of people who had no intention of ever attending the grand at the WSRC so they did not have to be invited to stay away in the first place ... If you feel the ATA, grand, Sparta is all good and fine, more power to you and hope you have a great time while it lasts ... The Cardinal Center just happens to be full of people who were uninvited to attend the grand by some know it all who didn't ... Personally, I think the grand should be paid for by those who attend and not those who get assessed by association by being a member of the ATA ... That makes a lot of sense to me being as I pay as I go and accept your invite to stay away ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Of course that would have to apply to all Satellite Grands and State shoots but then the selfish don't think to far ahead.

Personally I think the ATA should also impose a fee to all life members who haven't shot a required amount of targets in recent years and drop them after so many years of inactivity. After all they are useless garbage at that point.

 

Leonidas,

You are letting the nasty side of your personality emerge. The satellite grands do support them selves, they also pay the ATA many thousands of dollars for having the event. If the ATA takes on the expense of the site and the overhead is to high, what do you think will happen to our organization?

Someone mentioned the poor oversite by the project manager when the site was built. Did it ever occur to them that you can not build quality projects and siphon money from the project at the same time. Roger C.

 

So wpt, as a life member how much money have you been assessed by the ATA since you stopped shooting on a regular basis?

Nothing to hide right?

 

Roger, with all due respect, doesn't the ATA also provide some of the expense and the trophies for championship winners in both State and satellite Grands?

 

Leonardis,
Thats right nothing to hide , you obviously do being as you hide behind a false name ... Not one penny and it will remain that way until there are major changes, Life Membership do not have such a nonsense stipulation attached to them nor did they when I signed on over 40 years ago ... Tell us how many targets you have shot and how much you have spent being as you think that is a factor ... I invite you to compare anytime you wish to but face to face which is the right way to discuss things, unless you have something to hide ... You do not know me and your opinion does not matter to anyone but you ... I have the time and the money to shoot all I want, but choose not to render support under the circumstances ... Tell us how many targets you have or give your name so it can be verified or go play with your leggo's ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Wpt,you said," You do not know me and your opinion does not matter to anyone but you".

Does that statement not pertain to you, also or is it just a one way street with you?

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink!

 

We do not hate the ATA, it is their actions that have been under scrutiny, Guys like Neils Winston who wante thousands of ATA Dollare to test a 30 yard line with 1250fps shells, instead of testing the 27 yard line using 1200fps shells and 45 degree angles and 52 yard targets, which would not have cost a dime, then there was the Corp formed by the ATA President Rob Taylor 2012PLL, that did some purccase of land with a ATA shooter in TEXAS to buy property in Sparta and then selling it to the ATA for their offices, having no bid contracts on The Pat Traps, Then unknown reason having Mike Hampton being PROJECT MANAGER, that allowed roads to be built w/o proper BASE, Blacktop placed on un-compacted dirt. The HOF BUILDINGwasm supposed to have been built like the Architect Pictures printed in Trap & Field, and not let out on BID, and we ended up with a HORSE BARN, not let out on bid, Millions of our ATA members money was mis spent, and concerned ATA Members are bringing it out to SAVE OUR TRAPSHOOTING ORGINAZTION, Everybody was led by the ATA Pres. BOD, EC and others w/o OUR DELEGATES QUESTIONING ANYTHING, and still are not questioning their spending practices. The IIDNR & Illinois Governor Closed the WSRC Sept 1st 2015 after the Grand American, voiding our Contract, The most ridiculous Worthless thing Was Giving an MOU, Motion Of Understanding, I believe this was worked out with the ATA Talking Head Lynn Gipson, who has a Gun Business on site, and is Partial Owner of Gipson/Ricketts Lead Recovery, which would have the option of the lead recovery at the WRSC, The membership was against the SPARTA LOCATION from the Get Go, THE ATA EC & BOD went on their own and Built the WRSC, when numerous Other Locations were offered in Gun Friendly States, States that were SOLVENT Money Wise. WE AMERICAN TRAPSHOOTER ASSN WEB SITE have been uncovering so many discrepencies, like the firing of the OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE that the ATA Created to prevent this happening, Then Firing Them, OAUL SHOW Held a meeting pointing out so many things and supported The ATA MEMBERS to let them know what was happening and what happened, PAUL SHAW is a reputable, Honest Man W/Integrity, that I cannot say about any member or President, EC or BOD

So Pumpgun Bob do you seem whatm this site is about now?

Gary Bryant.........................................Dr.longshot

 

The Last Grand American Shoot at Vandalia had over 5,000 shooters, Sparta can hardly get half of that.


GB.......................................DLS

 

The ATA should not be charging any Gun Clubs to Hold Sattelite Grands, The ATA gets their fees for every entry. The Sattelite Grand Holders Can Furnish Their Own Trophies and Obtain their own support w/o the ATA.,if the ATA Pres wants to participate or attend he and the CHC, EC and BOD pay their own way. Just like the Membership does

God Bless America and the ATA

Gary Bryant......................................Dr.longshot

 

Longshot,
Your description of the ATA is just like a description of the government or a union or a business.
Instead of constantly complaining and ranting and raving about all the bad shit the ATA has done and is doing, why don't you and WPT get yourselves appointed as a delegate or mount a campaign to get elected to the eboard to try to straighten out the proposed mess.

Or is it just easier to sit back and complain and bitch and moan. Stop spewing the venom and negativity and try being positive.

A few of you guys sound like the Black Lives Matter movement. Stir shit, loot, burn down the neighborhood, block traffic,etc.
All that does is get me to not listen or feel sorry for or get me on your side. All it does is push me farther away from you.

Do something positive for a change.
Life is to short to be so bitter

 

Leghumpingbob,
That applies to everyone who makes claims against or about another person when they have never met or know anything about the person .... My opinion of you and Leonardis are lower than whale turds but that only matters to me but gets validated every time either one of you makes a comment or open your mouth ... Neither you nor Leonardis have ever posted your real names or anything that can verify if you are even members of the ATA or trap shooters for that matter ... That doesn't matter either except you keep saying things that make you look like in a test between you and a box of rocks the box of rocks would win ... I would be willing to bet you are a resident from Sparta,(under the bridge) which means your opinion matter even less to me ... WPT ... ( NYAC) ...

 

"Regardless of the way the ATA does business,"

That should be the opening line on some of these posts.

 

LOL wpt, you tell me to go play with my leggos while you call people childish names. LOL

 

WPT ,
It's been my experience that when someone responds with name calling after a statement or action, it usually means that statement or action has hit a nerve.
I didn't call you or anyone else names and at this point of the conversation, I won't.
It's just a shame that you're not interested in trying to fix anything with the ATA, instead just keep telling us how to fix it.
Get up from the computer and get busy.

 

"interested in trying to fix anything with the ATA"

WPT, if you need the definition of this, Google the name Paul Shaw.

 

Or Frank Rively!

 

Yep, Frank could educate PumpgunBob

 

While I hope this situation is solved quickly I do not see anything at this point to indicate otherwise. To reopen the WRSC there has to be money allocated to run it and there has been nothing released to date. So who is going to pay for the reopening and daily expenses, repairs and overdue bills, the State or the ATA. So far the Illinois FY2016 budget has not been passed and it's 8 months late. The FY 2017 Illinois budget is due 1 July and nothing has been done except that the Democrats have thrown in school reform into the budget battle. Sorry but I do not see anything happening anytime soon. Could be wron and I hope I am but right now there is no proof that this problem has been solved.

 

As of Friday, that state owned a stack of past-due bills worth about $7.2 billion.

 

I have found sometimes in life rather than try to educate some people you'd be better off talking to the toaster ... Do not pat yourself on the back, there is nothing you or Leonardis could do or say to strike a nerve so take that off the table ... I asked for anything to prove either of you are members or even casual trap shooters ( do you own a gun.?) which has not been provided, so that makes me feel even stronger that neither of you are anything other than pot stirrers ... New rule: If you stir the S*$T, you have to lick the spoon , so enjoy ...

The ATA is not and has not been a good fit for several men of Honor, and Integrity for well over the past 15 years so men like Doc Rively, Paul Shaw, Jim Thompson, Kenny Ray just to mention a few will never be invited to be a part of the Good Ol' Boys Club ... The ATA is in trouble, is the grand gets pulled off this year, next year promises to be another ClusterF%@K once the returns are in ... The State of Illinois has proven it self to be less than honorable in its dealings , as well as the claims made by the ATA have not, and will not be reached even though they have lowered the amount as of late to 10/12 million generated revenues in the local and regional economy ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

No there wasn't, that number was in 1999, for the 100th Grand. The 2005 Grand had around 3200.

 

Duff .... Are you using the numbers that shot the GAH, or total number that shot at least one event ?????

The 1999 GAH had 5,000 shooters in that event. The total numbers for 1999 should be higher because they only allowed the 5,000 to enter that event.

 

Here they are!

 

That picture shows an event total, and total entries. The number that currently gets used as "attendance", is the number of shooters who shoot one event or more.

When there were more "day-shooters" people would attend a single day, (sneak away from work), and shoot an event just to say they did it.

 

Has anyone seen the picture of the "Butt Bellows", someone needs to send it to a few of the kool aid crew so they can try it and see if they can blow smoke rings ... There are used for blowing smoke up ones butt hole and quite a favored item in the State of Illinois ... WPT ... (YAC ) ...

 

#7. Blowing Tobacco Smoke into People's Assholes Was a Popular Cure
Wavebreakmedia Ltd/Wavebreak Media/Getty Images

For as long as humans have had buttholes, healers have been shoving various substances in there just to see what would happen. The ancient Mayans ingested hallucinogenic drugs through their rectums as a ritual journey to the spirit world. Yeah, that's what those guys are doing on the right:

Justin Kerr
"You really, really don't want to eat the brown acid."

But then, in old-timey Europe, enemas became less about going on psychedelic anus trips and more about literally blowing smoke up your ass. We know we just used the word "literally" there, but we're afraid you still think we're kidding. Have this picture for daring to doubt us:

atomictoasters.com
"I swear to God, if you fart, I will kill you."

The anal trumpeter in the illustration is actually using his mouth to blow tobacco smoke up the poor bastard's ass as a form of popular 18th century cure. Back then, tobacco in all of its forms was used to treat basically anything from colic to vomit, hernia, rheumatic pains, and an excess of dignity.

Even crazier, the entire practice of blowing smoke into someone's rectum comes from Native Americans, who used this method to resuscitate drowning victims (we wish we could go back and talk to the first guy who suggested this, because we have many questions for him). American settlers then borrowed this technique for bringing people back from the dead (sans their anal virginity) and with time started promoting it as the new cure-all throughout the New and Old worlds.

io9.com
"Ugh, menthol, gross."

And so, for about half a century, colonial America and Europe actually witnessed plenty of scenes of people asking their buddies to smoke a cigarette into their butts whenever they got an upset stomach or something. The practice pretty much died down around the early 19th century, but not before becoming the actual, real inspiration for the saying "Don't blow smoke up my ass."

Oh, and in case you thought that using this device on unconscious and willing adults was crazy, they also used it on agitated horses, like the one tastefully depicted below with a pipe sticking out of its butthole.

web-static.nypl.org
And this is how steampunk was invented.

And while we're talking about butt stuff ...

I know a few people were not going to believe me, so I posted proof ... WPT .... (YAC) ... (Leonardis , come out , come out where ever you are ... )

 

A little off topic aren't you wpt?