SCTP Leaving Sparta for Cardinal Center!

More bad news on the home front. Word on the streets is the SCTP organization is leaving Sparta. The good news is Cardinal Center is seriously considered as their new home. Stay tuned for more info!

 

If true, this is a huge triumph for the SCTP organization. We were under the impression that not all the t's had been crossed on this deal.

 

No SCTP shoots at Sparta? They will not open then just for the U.S. Open and then be open for just 2 weeks in August. U.S. Open will be at the IL State home grounds if at all.

The SCTP was the big prize. I already had plans at the CC. Strange I did not wait for Gipson.

 

Man, once the train starts picking up speed the derailment gets a lot closer. Many have been drinking the Kool Aid ignoring all the warning signs but now anyone with a small amount of common sense has to acknowledge the future looks very bleak indeed. The SCTP is the future. Its membership and shoots will continue to grow. This is a huge loss for Sparta.

 

THE TRAIN STOPS HERE!

THE END

 

They can still have a golf course there without the SCTP?

 

Was this part of Trap Wife's plan ............be patient?

 

You guys should leave Trap Wife alone. She was treated poorly by the same people that are many of us are unhappy with. Roger C.

 

Roger, Roger stay down, low profile. You too are probably on the growing ATA list of malcontents who have harmed the Associations senior management.

 

Seitz, I have probably been the reason for more than one of them to loose a little sleep. I have probably caused concern with some of them that I consider friends, but so be it. I did not hurt them they did it to them selves when they they lost the title of honorable men. Roger C.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

SCTP leaving? Boom!

 

The SCTP was the prize.

 

With the SCTP gone the ATA has the Grand, AIM and possibly the U S Open left. The US Open has never been a shoot of any size and the AIM still struggles to compete with the SCTP. The future at Sparta is pretty much the Grand which will be much smaller in 2016. If you ask shooters who have a history of shooting at the Grand you'll find quite a few that have already decided not to attend and there's no future news coming to change their mind.

 

I heard U.S. Open is said to be held at the IL state home grounds. Best of luck to them. Aim is during the grand. No addition there.
Long time to maintain a park for a 10 day party. Wont happen without SCTP. Bets taken. Cash up front.

 

My friend in Chicago, who has been correct consistently on his predictions, just told me Illinois participation in the WSC is over. There is no desire on the ranking politicians part to have anything to do with the Sparta investment. Currently the IDNR is offering the facility to the ATA on a rental basis that no one believes will work without a substantial cash infusion. While the IDNR is still trying to salvage a long term plan the Governors office, in partnership with the Dem's are actively seeking a final resolution. Meaning they want the WSC gone and off the state books. There is no agreement to rent the facility currently. There is a handshake agreement to try and work out a rental agreement but the state may divest itself of the WSC at any time and there's nothing to stop that action including expensive legal action that would have no chance of success. To sum it up, if the WSC is rented to the ATA this summer Bill Martin better bend over and get ready for the Yokohama Express. Something I really hope does not happen. The other option, a new owner. The ATA or some other group of investers. Once again, if it's the ATA looking to buy I still see Bill Martin and the Yokohama Express. It is really time for Bill Martin to back off and let the future unfold without him giving any more money to a bunch of idiots only interested in themselves.

 

No need to rent it for the summer? Reports on the forum are the U.S. Open is scheduled for the IL State Home grounds and the SCTP Shoots are vacating Sparta. That leaves only the 10 days or so in August.

They only need to rent the facility for 2 weeks?

 

If any deal is cut by the ATA, they had better let the members decide if they want it or not. If they blunder into an other bad deal, with out the members sanction, it will be the death knell of our organization. If they loose the $12,000,000. the 10 year guess is out the window for Bill. Roger C.

 

From what I'm hearing this may well end up a multi-year deal for the Cardinal Center. Man is Oleolliedawg in big trouble with the lemmings for disclosing this information. They sure get mad at people with the correct information.

 

SCTP is a bigger prize. Good win for the SCTP and the Cardinal Center. 2 parties competing for the shooters is good for the shooters.

The CC is a mega venue. Will be bigger now.

 

I talked with the boys at the CC and it is a signed deal as of today. This will be great for the SCTP kid's families too, just think of all the things that there is to do in the Columbus area and all the motels and restaurants. Jack has started the pistol berm and has about got all the 14 skeet fields surveyed. I've asked Luke and Jake to post some pictures here to keep us informed. Brad

 

OH NO .... What-to-do with the M-O-U .... The Kool Aid Crew says that is a legal agreement and the "ATA" has the Complex rented.

Maybe the "year-round-vendor" could be a "signature sponsor" for the Port-O-Pot Pattern Party and the Rabbit Run on the Sporting Clays Course, and host the Carp Classic in the mud puddles to fill in the extra rental time now not needed for just the "Grand".

 

Any dates carved in stone yet for SCTP shoots at the Cardinal this year??? Any heads up or info would sure help...........Uncle Sam

 

The dates for SCTP Nationals are July 9-16 and SCTP Collegiate Nationals will be held October 28-30. The Mid Summer Trap championship is being moved from July 15-17 to July 22-24.

Luke

 

​

 

Thanks HB for posting this. I attempted to get this on the site but for some reason I couldn't.

Looks like the Senior leadership of this fine organization has the youth shooters and their parents in mind before the politics of the ATA and Sparta.

Thanks to Jack Fishburn for spending his time, money, and effort to see this come to reality.

Mr. Fishburn is a forward thinking man.

 

User 1,

You had me spilling my coffee on my key board !

That could be a good new game though...Port-a-Pot Pattern Party.

What an imagination !

Darn it man, I'm still laughing....

 

Trap wife seems to wish they had waited a little longer to make their decision as she feels they would now know they could be shooting at Sparta. She seems to feel they will be back at Sparta in 2017. Not seeing it myself. Once shooters get a comfort level with the CC and all that's around the area I doubt anyone would want to leaveunless. Have to admire Trapwife's continuing support of Sparta but can't figure out why unless she's upset about a longer drive.

 

Illinois abandoned the SCTP. They had no where to hold the SCTP Collegiate Championships last October. The Cardinal Center and Jack rescued the tournament on almost no notice. If Trap Wife (whoever that is) really cared about the kids she would have written a thank you letter to Jack Fishburn for bailing out the College kids.

 

I would be very surprised if the SCTP ever goes back to Sparta. Given the CC's location and all the amenities Sparta can't compare. Jack is also continually upgrading his facility to offer everyone, trapshooters, skeet shooters, sporting clay shooters and pistol shooters great experiences. Sparta is a big facility in a bad location who's days are numbered so I wouldn't be planning on any kind of participation increase.

 

The SCTP national tournament has been at Sparta for the last 10 years. It grew in numbers every year. Last year there were 2100 athletes in the 200 singles event. Close to 3000 just for the SCTP portion. That's not counting the several hundred that participated in the pistol competition. The SCTP is growing way faster than the AIM program. I just hope the Cardinal Center can come through with this huge amount of athletes, coaches, parents and other spectators that will be there.
I expect the first year to be a "fuster cluck." I anticipate 4000 to 5000 people converging on that place for a week.
2100 athletes is 420 squads to shoot 200 targets on only 52 traps in 2 days just seems impossible unless they start very early and go very late.
Hope it works out for them

 

Just my opinion, Mr Fishburn will make it right the following year if it does turn out like you say, a "fuster cluck" with not enough traps.
Problem is,you only get one chance for a first impression. May have to go over and watch the show myself.
Glad to hear that it's growing!

 

I'm pretty spoiled. We live closer to Sparta than where our state events are held by about an hour and a half. Now instead of a little better than an hour to Sparta, we have an 8 hour drive to the Cardinal Center. "

 

I hate to put people on the spot but I would hope that Dave Berlet and Brad could find perhaps one day to be there at the Ohio Trapshooting Hall of Fame to have some items on display and be able to answer questions about the history of the game.

These fellows have an extensive background in the game, and if I were a youth would love to meet these two fine guys and chat "history" with them.

They lived it, and I hope perhaps they may take my idea and think about it.

Dave

 

Even something for kids and parents to think about...a small clinic on gun fit by these two.

 

Talking to my friend in Chicago and he thinks any shoot at the WSC in 2016 is an even money bet but he said any shoot in 2017 would be real long odds. He's pretty sure by the end of the third quarter of this year the state will have set plans in motion to rid itself of the WSC. There will be no more money going into it period. We'll see if he's right.

 

I've already talked with Luke and will be at the CC to help with the shoot anyway I can. I've talked to both Kenny Ray and Dave about doing something at the shoot also.

As far as handling 2100 shooters I don't think that will be any problem. If you check past Ohio State shoots one year we had about 2700 entrees one day over three events, handicap, singles, handicap. When I was TD I figured ATA about 5 squads an hour or 60 squads total an hour with 48 traps, for kids about 50 squads an hour would be a better bet so on 48 traps, 450 squads would take about 9 hours, start at 8 am and last squad 9 hours later at 5pm. No problems as my Italian biddies at Beretta used to say. Brad

 

Another thread on this site has listed many events that the Cardinal Center has scheduled for this shooting year. One is the SCTP Regional shoot on Sat., May 7th, 2016. How do I get info on that scheduled event? Any help would be greatly appreciated.....Uncle Sam, Pa.

 

pm sent to Uncle Sam.

 

Thanks FG....

 

Congratulations to SCTP. The junk can stay in Sparta.

 

SCTP will be at the CC for a long time.

 

So are you going to preach anti- ATA to the kids also or just help in a dignified way?

 

Leonidas...you need to cheer up. The CC saved the SCTP in the fall. The SCTP Collegiate Championships were dumped by the IDNR and the WSRC.

 

Like preaching to the choir!

And since you used the word "anti", why don't you tell all those kids why you picked the avatar you so proudly use.

 

Leonidas, What does an average kid get from being forced to be an ATA member and pay ATA and State daily dues to a corrupt organization? It would be much better if the ones that want to shoot registered could, but all those that don't could take their membership fees, daily fees, and buy more shells and shoot more practice. I have never seen any advantage for SCTP to shoot registered anything. SCTP should be about introducing kids to Trap, Skeet, Sporting, and Rifle and Pistol, not promoting organizations over the spots in general.

The ATA has a history of using the SCTP as a revenue source and propping up the grand at Sparta in particular. The SCTP was taken for granted by the ATA EC and the idnr that they would be in Sparta. The SCTP Nationals had an estimated 15.9 million dollar impact on the Sparta area while the grand had a 9.5 million in 2015. The idnr literally charged the SCTP for everything right down to the water coolers and porta johns. The SCTP and the kids will be much better off at the Cardinal Center and if they listen to me will be rethinking the whole ATA registered thing.

Trap, Skeet, Sporting Clays, and rifle and pistol shooting are sports that are enjoyed by millions. Far more shooters that shoot registered anything run by organizations like the ATA that just want to promote themselves. The ATA only thinks of what the ATA gets out of the kids, not what they give them. If you don't believe me just ask yourself why the ATA announcement of having Skeet and Sporting Clays at the Sparta AIM shoot. What in the hell is a Trap Shooting organization doing trying to run Skeet and Sporting Clays if not to make money. The EC can't run a trap shoot let alone Skeet and Sporting.

The reason the ATA is in such poor shape is all they think about is what they can do to stay in Sparta and not what they can do to help the small clubs that make up the backbone of trap shooting. The SCTP kids that shoot in Ohio are literally the lifeblood of the future of small clubs in the state of Ohio.

In 1975 the ATA had 4500 members in Ohio, in 2015 we had about 1700 to 1800 and about 500 were SCTP kids forced to be members. The ATA needs to have shooters that want to be members like when I joined in 1974, not force them to be so they can shoot SCTP. Brad

 

Brad, I appreciate your answer but you still didn't say yes or no to the original question.

Are you going to make negative comments about the ATA to these kids?

 

Leonidas

You sound hateful. Why so much hate? Are you unhappy these kids have a place to shoot? Are you an EC member?

 

apple, just curious.

I hate no one or their views.

Too bad others can't voice opposing views without constant harassment from a few who interrupt conversations not directed to them.

 

Leonidas

You did not answer the questions. You may not bring much joy to the forum but you and your angry bird avatar bring plenty of hate. Still don't understand why.

Again, are you an EC member?

Are you happy for the kids?

 

apple, you still don't comprehend my last two sentences.

 

If the folks at Cardinal Center hosted a shoot on the same dates as the grand , the WSRC and grand attendance would be cut to the bone as in virtually eliminated ... The CC could do it as an unregistered Handicap shoot and they would be over run with shooters ... This almost happened one year at the Spring Grand at the Old Phoenix Trap and Skeet Club after not so cordial discussions with the then President Dave Kaiser about his unwarranted demands and attitude ... I was going to take the money that would of been paid to the ATA for trophy's, programs, and expenses for those who were going to attend from the ATA and use it as option money ... Kaiser figured out I was serious and he backed off big time or I would of eliminated the Spring Grand completely and had our own Spring Handicap shoot on those same dates ... The ATA has it in their head that they are the Supreme Association and if they do not say it happens with their blessing , it won't happen ... They came really close to finding out that year and all the Fat Cats who showed up and gave not so pleasant glances my way were very soft spoken to my face but I assume they had plenty to say to each other based on what I heard after all was said and done ... Thats the year we eliminated all of the freebies, no more adult beverages, food, and place to hide from the people (members) they were supposed to represent ... They were told to go and sit at the bar and put their money up just like everyone else, to say they were not happy is an understatement ... The left the club and went to one of the local bars to avoid the members and spend their expense money ... They were paid to Judge the shoot offs yet not one of them showed up other than to sit and watch , but we got it done ... Cardinal Center could put the ATA out of business if they wanted to, those on the ATA EC, ED , and some of the BOD can thank God they do not want that to happen or it would ... WPT ... (YAC) ...


Re posted from another thread in case anyone missed it ...

 

Leonidas, are you an EC member? The rest of us are happy for the kids!

Is that what angers you?

 

The people involved with the SCTP are obviously dedicated to progressing (growing) the sport so they wasted no time when the obvious happened at the WSRC to avoid any problem for and into the future for the organization ... The choice of the Cardinal Center was the best alternative and probably the best move they could of possibly made to secure its future ... The location was probably a big factor being as all of the amenities are close by and easy to get to , while there they can also visit the Ohio State HOF building as an added attraction ... God works in mysterious ways, ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Leonidas, I am going to tell the SCTP kids and coachs just what they should hear from a 42 year ATA life member who has been in the Trap Shooting HOF since 2000. The truth as I see it. My opinion based on years of experiences both good and bad. And what the ATA offers today compared to 1974 when I was 19 years old and started my trap shooting experience is something I will happily share with them. If they listen I'll tell these kids what they can expect to get out of the ATA registered experience and also what I think. What was and what is. But more important than my experience and years of shooting I will have the facts to back up what I'm telling them.

Your idea of dignified and mine are different. I can't see lying to a kid as dignified or telling them the truth as anti ATA. The EC are the ones who are to blame for the ATA's downfall. Not me. Not Ohio and not this site. It is THE EC and their continued spiral of driving the ATA into irrelevance.

Is it just me that sees the irony of all this is Jack wouldn't think of building 20 traps for the ATA to hold the 2016 Grand at the CC. And that was offered by Gibson. But he had no hesitancy in building 14 skeet fields for a one year deal with the SCTP. That should make the Kool aid crowd stop and think. Brad

 

Well said Brad, the kids should know what they are in for both good and bad so they can make a choice based on facts not fiction ... Have nothing to hide, hide nothing ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I guess I must have answered Leonidas's question, he has left the building. Brad

 

He probaly over getting advice from greenpants and hunter 22. LOL

 

Could be H1N1's fax machine is broken.

 

Leonidas,
You did not answer my question. Let's try again.

 

appalachianshooter, try this for size.

What on gods green earth make YOU think I have to answer anything the likes of you ask? nuff said!!

 

I will repeat the question Leonidas as you ask many questions yourself. Not answering of course would make us wonder and come to our own conclusion. Your posts recently seem a bit selfish. For your opportunity to clear that up I will repost the question.

 

Happy for the kids:

YES, It doesn't matter where they shoot as long as they get to shoot and have fun. Maybe some will join the ATA even after Brad's speech, if he gives it. It seems you are in doubt by asking such a foolish question. Why aren't you happy for the kids or are you just an unhappy kind of guy?

Am I an EC member, again:

No need for me to answer that question or any other question from the likes of you or your kind.

Why are some of you people worry so much who other posters are? I have been ask on several forum posts and in PM's. All saved of course. The only answer I can come up with is that you people know you are blowing smoke up the rear of the readers and you are afraid of being corrected by someone in the know. LOL

Please feel free to keep asking the same questions over and over. The answer will be the same until you get it.

 

Gee, that was not so tough Leonidas. So, you are happy for the kids. Or at least you now say so.
But then you get concerned about what Brad may say.

Goes to show that the conversation you want is not about the kids. It is about getting more revenue for a specific organization. Which goes to the question as to whether you are an EC member or just act like a selfish EC member.

Those that love trapshooting the most care for a specific organization the least.

I doubt Jack Fishburn is too dedicated to the ATA. Much more committed to providing a great shooting environment.

We know where you stand now. Somewhere between being a selfish EC member and acting like one.

 

In the know about what?

 

If I were a member of the ATA's management team (EC, ED, Delegate or CHC) I would make it a priority to be at the SCTP Championships. What better way is there to promote the ATA and encourage the SCTP shooters to try registered shooting than by making the commitment to be there AND BE HIGHLY VISABLE to the coaches and young shooters? Get out there and meet all the those prospective new ATA members! Talk to them, answer their questions and offer your own advise (which may be contrary to the advice received from others). It's a golden opportunity that I hope, and expect, the leadership of the ATA to avail themselves of.

 

I do agree that at the very least the Ohio delegate should be there for the whole shoot promoting trapshooting.

 

Leonidas
What does the Ohio delegate have to do with the SCTP vs an EC member?

 

'would be an opportunity for Gipson or an EC member to hump the CC's leg. An opportunity to find a place to replace Sparta. lol

 

Shouldn't Barry Roach be there? Wasn't he the one that was going to fill the WSRC with new members?
Or should he be the last person they want as the SCTP did their best to escape the clutches of the EC?

 

Family Guy, Read each word of my sentence (real slow) and then think, "at the very least" could mean Leonidas means "the lowest guy on the totem pole".

 

Leonidas....What makes the OH delegate "the lowest guy on the totem pole." (your words)

Again, as the liason, isnt it the job of Barry Roach?

 

The ATA should rent a vendor spot, just like the NRA has done at the Grand for years. A video loop set up to show highlights of the AIM Championships & the Grand w/vendor row. Hand out as many copies of past issues of Trap and Field as they have. I'd give any kid and their parent that isn't already an ATA member, a free one year membership. If they never shoot a single registered target we are only out a plastic card and a postage stamp. If they pay one daily fee at a registered shoot we are at break even or better so it's worth the chance. Invite some of the top All Americans for a day to meet and greet the kids, maybe a demonstration at the practice traps. If the ATA President really wants to attract some shooters to the Grand he can donate the Presidents Gun this year for a random drawing of any and all SCTP and AIM shooters that participate in the Presidents Handicap event during Grand week. Let the kids know you appreciate their attendance. The ATA is supposed to exist to promote the sport of trapshooting, not to promote just one location or shoot.


Leonidas,
I can assure you that Ohio is planning to have a STRONG presence at the shoot. In addition to the current OSTA BOD, at least five of the past OSTA Presidents have committed to being at the shoot to help in any way possible. The Ohio Trapshooting H.O.F. will be opened so the shooters and coaches can absorb some great trapshooting history. I hope we can count on you to come and spend some time with the SCTP shooters and coaches. They are the future of our sport.

Don

 

This was the first Intelligent Decision since the IDNR/Illinois budget problems, it takes away poor last minute decisions and those SCTP Kids deserve solidarity
I hope the Cardinal Center is a permanent decision, lots of local sight seeing can be done, places their parents can take them. The Best Of The Best for all concerned.

I want to see them coming to the CC upcoming shoots

Gary Bryant.................................Dr.longshot

 

I believe it was the SCTP who made the choice to make the move to preserve the future of same , not sure the ATA had anything to do with it ... I believe the State of Ohio will be well represented when the time comes for the shoot to happen ... This is one of many positive steps than can fortify the future of trap shooting, they did good .... Some let things happen, others make them (make sure) happen ... Best to all ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Repost and reprinted from another thread :

I am more or less a traditionalist in many ways about many things , the grand being one of them after my attending on several occasions ... Personally, I think the name "The Grand " should of been eliminated and replaced out of respect for the shooters and founding Fathers who attended in the past as well as the shoot it self prior to the move to Illinois ... This certainly is not a big deal and the name was probably retained to try and continue with the tradition of the grand as many of us knew it after it was laid to rest ... The Ceremony's , Last Shot's (Ed Y even got screwed on that one) , belt buckles all seemed right at the time but truth be known is was not a proper "Good Bye" when everyone walked away that last time ... The traditions were supposed to live on, (they didn't), the mystique would be replaced, (it wasn't) The shooter's would get used to it,(they didn't ) , the Legends would be replaced and as of yet they have not been ... If you walked down the midway at Vandalia, you could almost feel the spirits of those from years gone by and visualize their presents ... There are many people who compare the "Grand" to the shoots in Sparta at the WSRC , they have no idea what they are talking about, most having never been to the" GRAND" ...

The Cardinal Center appears to be what the shooters enjoy and look forward to with the same anticipation (reasonably close anyway) as they used to when the grand was the Grand ... You have heard people say "those were the days", yes THOSE WERE THE DAYS and now they are gone but never to be forgotten ... Call it anything you want but the grand will Never be in Sparta, Ill other than in name and name alone ... WPT ... (YAC)....

 

It's nothing more then a dusty 31 year old pewter cup that was won in a shoot off under the lights....but the memories it evokes. That's the same year i got out of trapshooting, only to return last fall. If ever I get in another night shoot off, where ever it may be, it just won't be the same.

 

rookieshooter,
WOW, Congratulations and savor the memories ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Thats all?

 

Leonidas the SCTP kids are forced members of the ATA already. The ATA EC has viewed the SCTP kids as a revenue resource and a nuisance in general forever. It's not what I will be telling the kids that should bother you. It should be that I will be spending 8 days at the CC with the coaches and SCTP management helping run the trap shooting events. Eight days. Eight days, without any ATA interference or incompetence. That is your real concern. The SCTP, the coaches, and the kids and their families will get to see the difference between a CC run event in the Columbus Ohio area and a IDNR ATA event run in Sparta. Who do you think will win that one?

Brad

 

The kids will be the winners.

 

The ATA should give the SCPT kids introductory memberships for say 5 years at no cost as a Good will jester , before they have to pay for the continuation of their memberships ... The cost can be absorbed by eliminating the gun to the out going president from now on ... I noticed Morris having a hard time staying awake (dreaming about his new gun) during the meeting about agreeing to not agree and that the State would not negotiate or put anything in writing other than a MOU ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I want to thank The SCTP Coaches and managers for stepping up to the Plate to insure the SCTP kids will have the best place to shoot, close to everything.

Having people who care about them, not just $Dollar signs. Sparta cannot even come close to the Cardinal Center, in any area.

Having Brad Dysinger talk to them about Trapshooting and his Expierences. I know Leo Harrison would be proud of him, He would be beside Brad if he were alive.

Thank You Cardinal Center & Brad Dysinger

GB.................................DLS

 

Who gave you permission to speak for Leo and what he would stand for?

 

Leonidas .... You may find conversations about "BOXERS ,BRIEFS , THONGS OR [sic] COMANDO" a bit boring, and I would agree ... but your posts toward the "Doc" makes it look like the "BOXERS ,BRIEFS , THONGS OR [sic] COMANDO" conversation is where you belong.

 

I couldn't find any conversation on your underware. What post is it under?

 

Now that the SCTP is at the CC, where is all the money being brought in, being spent? We need a full accounting of all traps, all labor, and all profit margins.

 

Well Leonidas .... It is no surprise you would fail to find something.

Duff .... You would be justified in requesting all that if they are a "Public Charity".

 

Duff.....the Cardinal Center is not a charitable org. It is a never profit. It will probably never make a profit in my lifetime. There will be many volunteers at the SCTP shoots like all the events at the CC. I will be there as well. Probably emptying trash cans or whatever is needed.

I hear 5 ex OSTA presidents will be there.

You can always ask the ATA what they are doing with the funds they are getting from the shooters? I would guess propping up Sparta or being donated to the HOF fund.

I will take hundreds of pictures of course.

The Disney of the Shooting World waits for you Duff.

 

Got it from trap wife. Right after she gave him the plan.

 

Is the SCTP a "Public Charity", shouldn't we be able to see how they spend the "charity" given to them?

 

Did you get that idea from a disgruntled EC member or IDNR?

 

To this ... "Is the SCTP a "Public Charity" ... you can 'look up' anything "public", and be able to "see" what they are required to "file".

 

Cogan makes a valid point in the above post, does the now former ATA president absolutely need the fancy pants k80, probably not. Does said person deserve a token for his efforts good or bad, yes. An 870 with Past President of ATA and presidents name on the flats would probably make most of the past presidents happy, may I put emphasis on most. I'd like to see, like Don said, the presidents gun given away through a raffle to a youth shooter for that kid/young-adult to cherish and continue the endeavor of skeet/trap/sporting competition. Or Perhaps have the former president sponsor a youth guy/gal, through raffle, go to next year's sctp/aim tournament. What I've said above is a perfect world scenario.

Some people may recognize my username and put two and two together, which equals 4 just to clarify. I also have my name in the osta hof somewhere on a measly plaque and in the back of a book. Since we were throwing the card around thought I would too.

 

Nope, I got it right here from your posters.

 

The existence of this site gives notice to all gun orgs that there may be a watchdog group.

This is also a coachable moment for young shooters that the integrity must come from within your shooting org. It will never start at the top.

 

Duff,
I sincerely think you are probably a good guy but you read between the lines not the lines them self which could alter the actual meaning of what is really being said or implied ... The SCTP made a move to secure and stabilize the future for those involved in that organization ... How could or why would any one find fault with that, does not make sense ... If the ATA was as diligent in its actions there would not be any uncertainty or reasonable doubt (concerns) about the future of the grand and where its going to be ... Give credit where credit is due and be glad they did what had to be done without reservation for the sake of those involved ... If it continues to be hosted at the Cardinal Center or not remains to be seem but can't see why it would not be based on the fact of the stability issues involved ... WPT ... (YAC) ...