Leadership

Bad leadership equals poor communication. Blind obedience to poor leadership is not supporting the association, it's reinforcing corruption and death of the organization. Bad leadership is like a flat tire, it's hard to get anywhere until you change it. Bad leadership in the past is hard to overcome when trying to secure the future. Just a couple thoughts for the new year but no big concerns, I'm sure everything will probably be just fine. They surely have a fantastic plan to support the "fantastic direction" in which the ATA is headed.

 

I heard the fired manager of the Eagles is being considered for the leadership of the ATA!

 

The Leadership is out of touch with reality because they are not in touch with the membership ... Until that changes there is little hope for any improvements to secure a future ... If the ATA had a plan it would of leaked by now, I feel they are like the walking dead thinking something is going to change by doing nothing to make sure it does ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

What if they hold a Grand and only a handful show up which just may happen this year.

 

That would make sense, but never, never will happen.
The grand (or whatever it will be called) is still the greatest
Place to get points. And that seems to be an important issue
for many shooters.

Greta c


Ed

 

The Joe Average shooter could care less about points. That is why he is shooting Sporting Clays

GB....................DLS

 

There must be a lot of people who care.
Come to Florida, there are many kids shooting, I mean a lot! Seeing these happy kids. And their
Parents with them, I can't believe our many problems cannot be solved, maybe we need to get some
Of these traveling parents involved In the ATA. They seem to have the time, and I have never heard
Them say that hated EXPRESSION WHO CARES?
It is true we need a good old fashioned housecleaning. But I still Believe it can be done.
I still have faith in the ATA., I wish I were younger! Then I could act instead of just voicing my opinion.
The gentleman most involved in fla. Youth trapshooting has three boys, two working, and
One now shooting, he is a perfect example of what we need.

Greta c
.

 

Just hold hands and sing kumbaya and say I believe. If that don't work the ATA is dead. EC has one chance to get it right. They wont.

 

You seem so sure, I hope the exec committee proves you wrong, I didn't say
The one we have now. Any thing or any body can be changed.
Maybe an adjustment of a few could be the answer, or maybe the
Addition of a cool, smart lady might help.
If we have the possibility of a female president of the USA, one lady
On the EB might follow?
Please do not get upset, I'm sure I might get in trouble for this
Suggestion, but there are many female trapshooters who are well educated
And savvy.
And women know how to houseclean!

Greta c

 

Greta,

The way the ATA line of progression is set up you and I do not have enough time left to see a lady as president. The whole thing is set so it can not be changed from what it is now. Put a reformer in at the bottom of the progression and they have about nine tears to change your ideals. If there are things done that are not above board, all on the EC and BOD must know of them. Even If they do not profit from the actions, just tolerating them, is in it's self condoning them. They then are just as guilty as the perpetrators. It may be time for some kind of legal action on the part of the members. Sad but it seems necessary. Roger C.

 

I did not mean a lady as president of ATA, I just meant a lady on the E.B.
Certainly some of the EB members have reached retirement age. That is retirement from the EB.
The ladies deserve some representation other than thru their spouses!

Is this idea so terrible

Greta c

 

Greta,
Not a bad idea, but as Roger stated this process of having a lady on the EC would take some time, first you would have to have her elected as a delegate the have the zone elect her to a position on the EC as VP of her zone and after five years under the present system the lady would become President of the ATA. I know I will not see this happen due to my age.

 

Maybe we should encourage Tammy to run. At least they'd have the fear of God if they ever crossed her!

 

Yes Greta it sounds stupid. Very stupid. To think that any person of any sex can be in a position of power to make a difference in the next 10 years is stupid. The problems of the ATA will not be decided on whether the person running has a vagina or penis.

It will be decided very soon and no one will be asking if the idiots that failed us again have vaginas. And no one will care if they can clean a house.

 

The house that I was referring to,was certainly was the ATA house not someones private residense.
First of all, i am not stupid or are any suggestions that might help the sport of trapshooting.
I have been around for many trapshooting years, I love the sport with my heart and soul. I probably know
More about the ins and outs that many, many others.
Secondly I know about male and female anatomy, and understand vulgarity when I read it.
Not necessary! Tammy would have my vote and lots of other people's.
I also know that all of the e.c. Are not idiots. Maybe just confused.
Stupid gentlemen could not afford shooting.

Greta c

 

Greta
Which ones are the smart ones?
Which EC member is not an idiot?
How long does it take on average to get to be an EC member?

 

Singing kumbaya and holding hands would be faster.

 

I would like to know just how long mr. Anatomy and mr kumbaya
Have been members of the ATA?

Greta c

 

I am new testament version.

 

Greta
How many cats do we have to skin? How many chickens do we have to pluck?

 

The only important issue is that we again have a good honest organization for the trapshooters.
Sorry but cats, chickens, etc maybe proper terminology, but to me it is just ridiculous gibberish which deviates
From the real reason people are trying to fix our problem.
Believe me I know we have a serious problem, partially caused by the e.c. But also caused by economy
And different ways we now have to spread our incomes, educate our children, and cope with our personal
Lives. It"s still easier to work with what we know then venture into something new. That's why people
Remodel homes and stay and fix what is known.
Again, I would rather fix the ATA then venture outside.
But, I would never call people idiots, just men with mountains of unsolved issues which can be corrected,
With the current officers or with a new slate.
The trapshooting community always has been of prime importance after family, jobs, and
Personal issues.

Greta c

 

Greta,
One point was made tho in the gibberish. Which of the EC spilled the beans and told all the delegates the HOF was to be owned by the state of Illinois? Pertains to the honest org you talk about. The answer should be easy as they are friends of yours.

Please tell the forum.

 

Greta I forgot 2 more questions and from your typing above you must have the answer.

1. If it is the economy then why is the clays game soaring to new levels while trapshooting is failing?

2. If the economy is so important then why did we have great years during the following times --->

The dot com crash
Black Tuesday when all the mills shut down in OH and PA
Black Thursday of the stock market crash
Carter's malaise
Nixon's inflation
The great recession of the early 80's
The fuel shortage of the '70's

And the big question Greta. Tell us why trapshooting flourished during the great depression.

 

I felt the economy had a negative impact until, I see many of the same shooters who used to shoot registered at the club shooting but on a social level (just having fun) rather than registered trap ... They have lines for sporting, skeet, and the bunker when its open so I would say that any impact the economy had has pretty much been eliminated for the most part ... There were trap guns for sale all over the place so some people just opted to drop out of shooting all together, others got caught up and continued ... I feel the economy will get better once we have some Leadership that is not out of touch with the people and some of the give away programs get eliminated, especially feeding and catering to the same people who want to kill us ... The set backs can be reversed for the most part but to keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result is not very realistic ... Shooting will survive, some shooting organizations may not if they do not get reorganized and in touch with reality and cut the fat cats off ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Did those same shooters you saw shooting on a social level spend the same amount of money and time during the day on a consistat basis as they did shooting registered?

 

Leonidas,
Good question, but I do not ask people their personal business and or to account for the time they spend shooting ... I do know some of them go up there 2, sometimes 3 or 4 days a week and play so all in all I would guess the amount of time they are there would at least be equal to if not more than sitting around all day waiting in between events ... They also have a bunch of seniors that get together on Weds mornings and just shoot some trap, skeet, and the Bull when they get done and go and play poker ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Leonidas,
I'm sure they save a little money by not having to pay daily fees to the ATA and or state organization, so taking that into account they probably shoot and extra round or two now and then ... They got a bunch of guys who shoot for quarters so they buy a round of trap and a box of shells to win 2 or 3 dollars but they are having fun and no waiting ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I wish i knew who all these so-called friends of mine are. Who?
I do see more trap scorers, workers making $$$ in order to do more shooting.
Some retired folks taking jobs for shooting $$$, even some friends not shooting just visiting gun clubs
Or card playing.

P.S. I was not around at depression time!

Greta c

 

Greta

No....but you were around for the following. All of which were part of the Golden Age of Trapshooting.

The dot com crash
Black Tuesday when all the mills shut down in OH and PA
Black Thursday of the stock market crash
Carter's malaise
Nixon's double digit inflation
The great recession of the early 80's
The fuel shortage of the '70's

You were here for the golden age of trapshooting. Again all of the above.

 

Let Me explain. My friends from the ATA
1...Earl Toliver.president..from Indiana he and his wife Mae were old and
Dear friends.
2 ...Woodie Brown,president from Pa
3....Gene Anastasio, president from Pa
4....Lucky Nightingale,president from md
5....Ken Duncan, president from NC
6....ray Greb from md
7....Terry Roush from n.c.
And a few more for a brief chat and in my estimation all of the above were
Or are fine men.
There is a big difference between casual acquaintances and real true friends.
As for the golden age of trapshooting, I still await the platinum age,
I hope I am around to participate.
I remember Western Union going down our street to tell parents
That their sons were injured or dead.
To me that was the worst, the ATA existed thru all that and more
And I feel it will be repaired and be around for many, many years.

Greta c....I'm tired of all this...let's SHOOT!

 

Just a simple point of interest... if ALL of the ATA members shot as many targets each year as Greta.. and shared the true spirit of shooting that she does. I think the majority of problems within the ATA would be gone.

I have had the pleasure of shooting with Greta, and I hope to again before it's all over. I seriously doubt that the majority of ATA member on this site shot the number of registered targets that she did last year.

 

To decipher FlaLagarto and continue with his logic......If you forum members would have shot more last year the ATA leaders would have never moved to Sparta. They would have never wasted $2.1 million on a building they cant own. They would have never made the sport less challenging. They would have never made the deals with felon Blagojevich in the gun hate state.

I guess it would be just like it was before they ruined the sport. It would be like 1995. Traveling back in FlaLagarto's time machine.


'95 or bust !

 

The problem or reason more shooters are shooting less targets is the ATA (EC, ED, some of the BOD) who is supposed to support and promote trapshooting ...If there was a vendor at one of the shoots who took advantage of the customers, how long do you think the vendor would stay in business ..? The ATA is a member owned organization yet the member get ignored unless its for money, donations, to pay off the HOF, etc .... The shooters are still shooting, just not giving their business to the ATA, for any amount of reasons and that will not be changing in the near future ... I actually shoot more targets and do not have to think about who I am supporting with my money when I do other than the club ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I worked from the time I was 15, I saved from 1st grad, we brought 10cents to school each week to buy a stamp
In order to fill our stamp book, which when full bought an $18.75 US bond.
I did smoke for 25 years but I never drank. I have always shot brownings, paid for everything even my cars when
I purchased them, trapshooting has been my only real extravagance (except
for good jewelry which I haven't worn on recent years).'
Obviously my love of the sport shows.
But did not have a family to raise and educate and support....so
I could & can as much as my body and i can.
2016 is here let's SHOOT, please. I hope the ATA becomes golden again.

Greta c
For years

 

The number one thing that has cost the ATA shooters is the move to Sparta, Illinois. All the other dumb ass moves before and since pail in comparison. Brad

 

Sparta is a beautiful facility, its just toooooo far for.the average
Working family to travel on their vacation, I mean eastern us
And Canadian shooters. Travel, shooting and traveling home.
After this shoot vacations are pretty well used up.,leaving little time
For state, local and zone shoots.

Greta c

As usual.Brad hit the nail on the head!

 

Probably not a week goes by that I do not drive by the old shooting grounds of Vandalia. So sad to see all that vacant ground and then to see the sign that says 650 acres for sale at the western end...only if

 

rookieshooter,
Pictures, we need pictures ... Bet you can almost hear the guns going off as you drive by ...ahhhh, memories ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I'll have pics in a day or so when I go by it. I did notice a strange phenomenon when I drove past the old entrance. A faint apparition hovering over where the old Budweiser tent was, sure enough, it was the ghost of my liver.

 

How many acres do we actually need for a facility to hold a shoot like
The grand?
I'm sure that I am not the only one who doesn't realize this answer.
I imagine since I am a city girl 690 acres seems like soooooo many.
Please explain
Thank you.

Greta c

 

Greta
We need less each year. And if you asked me we don't need any land. I am tired of even hearing about the corruption surrounding the clowns that hold it.

I will be at 3 major shoots north of Columbus this year. Maybe 1 in PA. Before you ask I have been to Sparta. I wont return. The gun hating state and home of Obama will not get another penny.

But that is just my opinion.

 

Here is the sign advertising the property for sale. Took this pic on the side of rt 40 facing west. If I looked behind me I can see the Vandalia water tower way off on the horizon. This property is at the extreme west end of the old trap line. I do not know if it would actually connect to where the traps used to be. There is a service road to airport next to sign. Seems to be mostly all fields. Now to find someone with deep enough pockets?

 

R.I.P. Vandalia......we sure miss you

Greta c

 

I believe this is the land that was offered by City of Dayton to the ATA to relocate to

Gary Bryant..................Dr.longshot

 

Were is the correct terminology Greta

GB..................DLS

 

At least I believe the ATA is now and can be viable again,
You believe it is was WAS and will stay there!
But we will see!

Greta c

 

Greta 4 of those you listed went to the DARK SIDE, not listening to the MEMBERSHIP

Gary Bryant........................Dr.longshot

 

Of course, some are deceased, I merely was answering the men who said
My friends were responsible for the mess ATA is in.
I sure hope they were not the culprits, or are not.
My friends always were pro ATA, not agin. Bashing the ATA is doing nothing but
Wasting time that could be spent building it.
Greta c

 

Kumbaya....Kumbaya my lord

 

More b.s.

It would be nice to hear some proper English.

Greta c

 

Greta B.S. is not proper english. Your posts show what is not proper english.

Greta - - you and your ilk that feel finding fault with the org to whom we pay dues is "bashing" are the problem. Get with it Greta. You have mentioned often you like these guys that put us here. They are swell fellows right? Fine men.

Thanks for turning the blind eye. Believe Greta. Click the heels. No place like home. And respond with punctuated english.

 

Well Greta, I'll certainly agree with #2 and #3 as being two of our finer Presidents. I'll let you guess which one on your list I wouldn't trust as far as I could spit. One antic of his in MD was enough for me.

That said, Greta, at 80 yo is entitled to write any way she wants. She's paid her dues, shot ten's of thousands more ATA targets than anyone I know and remains a class lady. She can punctuate anyway she wants and I'm sure most everyone understands her opinion regardless of a missing , or .!

 

It's not enough to criticize what her opinion is, but how she expresses it?

 

Unfortunately Greta you're experiencing the childish behavior that seems to be prevalent on this forum. If you don't agree with everything said you and everyone else who agrees with what you are saying are ridiculed by the same several posters.

 

Greta, Take a better look at #'s 4,5,6,7, on your list. You may be in for a surprise. Roger C.

 

The above is Greta's post. It is Greta that was criticizing how someone expressed their opinion.

And Greta if you are as old as you say are you were alive during the depression.

Roger everyone is great with Greta. "Honorable men" cause Greta believes.

 

I was born in 1935, and regardless my family had no bad effect from the depression.
My father paid for rental of a garage for his truck, the same amount the people renting the house paid for
The house!
I come from a family of extremely hard workers, and smart workers, and fair minded.
But, I am poor typist and an even poorer I pad user!
Why not think the best of people, and why air all the dirty linen you have heard?
Keep some matters to yourself unless you can improve them.
Isn't it strange, but I find that I don't have to tell what I know, some of you do it for me.

I have complained for years, it did me no good. I could 't believe some of the things that were done.
There was a day at a large state shoot, a day that was just handicap and doubles and one of the good
Ole boys wanted to shoot 16yd targets on his birthday..and he did, just one squad for he and his buddies

So, now I realize that a lot of what I know should be just for me to know.

Greta c
I stupidly asked why some of the rest of us could not do the same, I was laughed out of the clubhouse office.

 

Greta in response to your question....

There was another trapshooting website. On that website if you exposed what may be illegal activity, corrupt activity, or just plain dishonesty on the site you were banned. Mean folks came up with words like bashing. Labeled you as a hater. And then wrote nasty things about you.

Organizing a group to fight these issues was taboo.

This is the site where you can expose the problems of your org. You can post the positive issues. It is an open forum. Don't like open forums then give yourself the boot.

The lease agreements were exposed on this forum for both the ATA and the HOF. Pull 2012 dealings were posted here. The Shady deals of the ATA move to Sparta have been discussed as well as felon Blagojevich the great deal maker. The Shaw incident was posted here. The damage done with the target changes have been discussed.

We are making a difference. You are hurting the sport. Your blind eye and others with similar vision were the cancer.

Botttom line........you heard it here.

Get the hell out of the way Greta. Change is coming.

 

Without cursing!

But, I will continue to shoot, that sir, is not your business.
You sir, are rude and arrogant,
And I do not have to accept that, I forgot more about trapshooting and
The ins and outs then most will ever know. Goodbye and good luck to all.



Tata,
greta

 

Greta you may have forgot more than most will ever know. One thing we must remember and make public is how we got here.

target presentation
moved the flag shoot away from the heartland of trapshooting
put corrupt people in high positions
made deals with felons
wasted monies

and most of all.......told dissenters to shut up.

 

While you're thinking about what to type, and during the typing itself, are you capable of realizing, the very complaints and things the ATA, and the "other site" does or doesn't do, is the exact thing you, and others do here? Any one that has a different outlook, or different opinion is immediately slapped down.

Based upon your many posts, this is not an "open forum", you can't possibly fathom the responsibility and the dangers of such a forum.

 

Duff

Please make a list of people that are banned here.

 

Guys I gotta go with Duff on this one. There are some on this site that say that trap shooters can come on here and express Their opinion, but God help them if it does not agree with Their own opinions! They'll just verbally abuse them until They leave the site. Kinda sounds like that, "OTHER SITE", syndrome to Me. I don't know Greta, but in reading Her post's, it's pretty apparent that she agrees that The ATA has some issues, but also cares about an organization that has given her a lot of great enjoyment. This site could use a lot more people like Her. Let's face it, the more people that are on here like Greta, the more likely, that various ATA leaders will take notice. I agree with Her. Bitching and whining does little to fix the problems, it only makes ourselves feel like we're doing something to correct the problems. It is pretty unlikely that another organization is going to come along to replace the ATA. Get some delegates Elected from the Midwest that are sympathetic to Your cause, and change may happen. Just My 2 cents. P.S. Family Guy, please try and be a gentleman and show a little respect to the ladies?

 

Sockeye.....help duff with the list of people that are banned here.

Greta was not told to leave. Greta, like you was telling us to be quiet, quit complaining. Telling us to shut up and elect delegates as you say is our perogative. We are not shutting up. The shooters are not represented equally which is a big reason you made that statement. It does not matter who my delegate is. Porter can tell you that! Shaw can help with that as well.

Voicing our opinion and exposing the corruption is what you hate! Greta does nor care for it either. That is part of the cancer of our sport. Too bad! I said it!

Pull 2012, HOF lease, ATA lease, Shaw, felon Blagojevich deals, and the corruption with the move to Sparta all got exposed here. Bigger things are comimg. Stay tuned.

Now run along and help Duff wth that list.

 

Family Guy I'd sit here and debate this with You, but A. It wouldn't do any good, and B. I have to get out the door and go shoot at the Crab Buckle shoot this morning. If You folks ever get a chance to come out here and shoot this shoot at the Del Norte gun club in Northern California, do it, as it is a lot of fun, not to mention the Saturday night crab feed is excellent. P.S. Family Guy, Your preach'in to the Choir Man, Lighten Up!

 

Now if you had those crabs flown in from the Chesapeake bay covered in Old Bay seasoning, I may make the flight. Hope your shoot goes well. Like to see some pics.

 

If you want people to "see-the-light" .... beating them with the flashlight never works.

 

Bad budgets created bad results in Illinois

1

Print By Kristina Rasmussen
6
Editorial: Illinois dysfunction shows why you can't run a state like a business[/paste:font]
Illinois' failure to pay out winnings to big lottery winners — well, anything over $600 — has captured much of the national media attention ov… Read more

Is it time for Illinois Gov. Bruce Rauner to throw in the towel? To give up on reforming Illinois, and instead agree to let House Speaker Mike Madigan and the Democrats continue to have their way in Illinois?

That seems to be what the editorial board of the Post-Dispatch is suggested in “State of dysfunction,” but it’s a terrible prescription for Illinois.

First, having a state budget isn’t a panacea for Illinois’ many troubles. If recent history has taught us anything, it is this: A bad budget can be worse than no budget.

Recall that Illinois had budgets each of the Gov. Pat Quinn years, from 2009 to 2014. With House Speaker Michael Madigan and Senate President John Cullerton’s acquiescence, those budgets were signed, sealed and delivered. And yet they failed to produce a stable government or a vibrant economy.

Instead, the continued economic and governmental instability was baked into the budgets. Even though the state was flush with federal “recovery” money in 2009 and 2010, the Legislature had to borrow billions to make the pension payments. A massive state income tax hike in 2011 took an extra week’s pay from working Illinoisans, but operating deficits continued to be rolled forward. Illinois suffered 12 downgrades from the three major rating agencies and the pension debt increased by $20 billion.


Last year’s budget alone set up a $300 million deficit just for the state’s day care subsidy program. In the final months before the new governor came into office, the deficit grew to $5.8 billion in December 2014, up from $4.1 billion in September 2014.

Now, on to the economy: Illinois had the worst employment recovery from the Great Recession of any state. When Quinn left office, 220,000 fewer Illinoisans were working than before the Great Recession began — landing Illinois the worst record in the U.S., according to data from the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics. Illinois was the only state in the region that added more people to the food stamps rolls than jobs market.

The number of taxpayers who moved out of Illinois and to another state increased dramatically after the 2011 income tax increase. According to the Internal Revenue Service, on net Illinois lost one taxpayer every 10 minutes in 2011; by 2013, the rate of out-migration from Illinois accelerated to one taxpayer person leaving every 6.5 minutes. Altogether, Illinois lost a net 200,000 people and $10.4 billion in taxable income from 2011 through 2013, the IRS reported.



This was all before Gov. Rauner took office, and this was all with year after year of unbalanced budgets pushed forward by Madigan, Cullerton and the Illinois political class. Former Republican governors Jim Thompson and Jim Edgar — both of whom the Post-Dispatch mentioned in its editorial — were complacent, too, in pushing unfunded liabilities onto the taxpayers. Edgar’s “pension ramp” plan forced taxpayers to pay increasing contributions to the pensions systems each year starting in 1996 and still increasing today. By 2045, taxpayers will be contributing $16.8 billion.

The Post-Dispatch also mentioned the recent credit rating downgrade by Moody’s as evidence that Rauner’s approach isn’t working. It failed to mention that under Quinn, Illinois’ credit rating was downgraded 12 times. And this was during a time when there was no so-called budget “stasis” because Democrats controlled the governor’s mansion as well as both chambers of the Illinois Legislature.

The moral of the story: Bad budgets set the stage for bad results. Illinois’ woes did not begin during the last nine months with Rauner as governor, but during the last several decades of Madigan, Cullerton and the rest of the status-quo political establishment. The decades of mismanagement in Illinois cannot be fixed in one month, one year or possibly even in one term.

Instead of criticizing those stepping up to rescue Illinois, the Post-Dispatch editorial board should focus its ire on the intransigent relics who insist on business as usual.

Kristina Rasmussen is executive vice president of the Illinois Policy Institute.