BOOM! Illinois will close World Shooting Complex in Sparta at end of August

Illinois will close World Shooting Complex in Sparta at end of August

1 hour ago • The Associated press

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_035fe93b-9bdc-5609-9be6-9bfc63b01488.html

 

Dang, just joined ATA 2 weeks ago after a long absence. Those trophys you guys win out in Sparta could become collector items lol. Might have to wait before sending another check this Sept. Hope it gets all ironed out.

 

Can't wait to see look on face of delegate....

 

I bet some of those faces are turning about 10 shades of red right about now

 

Relax - they have a plan.

 

Fredonia Bob....Was Brian one that thought it would never close ?

Ooops, The Delegates could be right...Says it could only be temporary.

I'm sure they will be shooting there for years to come...ya gotta have faith

 

That has got to be a lot of faith in the face of a state budget with a 4 billion dollar hole that has to be closed.

 

Sparta closing.

A lady that is in charge of the building leases told one of the vendors that YES the center will be closed on Sept.1, but will reopen on Oct.1 for business. When asked if all of the problems had been resolved she said (I am very optomistic). But she would not commit to a definite answer.

She said they were going to offer 1 and 5 year extensions on the lease agreements, but did not state the costs to the vendors. It was not a very reassuring conversation for the vendor. Roger C.

 

Roger you're just to darned pessimistic. You do know the ATA has a plan? Now the IDNR is also working on a new plan. So therefore we now have two plans in the works, two really good plans. What the hell could possibly go wrong? Don't all you guys see the light at the end of the tunnel? It's amazing how little faith some shooters have. I mean what has ever been done to create such an atmosphere of apathy and distrust in our elected officials? We just came off an excellent Grand American that actually had 2000 shooters in one event. 2000 shooters on one event, can you just imagine that? Things are really picking up steam now.

 

How long is that tunnel? I do not see a light, but heard of some Candles were going to be lit sometime so EC & BOD can get a Glimmer of hope

 

I think any possible "Glimmer of Hope" got in the way of the "Fantastic Direction" when the actual numbers got tallied and the State of Illinois got a whiff of what they got into with the ATA ... I cannot say for sure, but if the State had been given accurate numbers to deal with in the first place, they may of been able to adjust around them and come up with a plan that could of worked and been a good thing for all involved ... When they hear exagerated numbers and then a contiual barrage of the same over and over, then see the dismal turn out as they have in the past 10/11 years they are really difficult to ignore ... It will be interesting to see the "Plan" that had been in the works for several months to avoid the shuttering of the WSRC, someone if the know will have to talk up sooner or later ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Maybe the plan is going to be set up by N.W. All 16 yd. events will be shot from the 14 yd. line, and every one will get a strait away no mater what post they are standing on. No target shall be thrown farther than the 44 yd. line. All shooters on the 23.5 yd. line will get a 10 target spot. Neil, have I missed anything. Yep/ all old time shooters get to shoot for free, but only if you live west of Ol Miss. Roger C.

 

Roger....You're a sage.


Regards.....Gerald

 

Sparta? Closing?





I'm shocked beyond belief!!!! How could this happen???

 

While it appears that the ATA inflated the numbers to the State of Illinois some responsibility has to rest with Illinois as they had people from the State attending the Grand in Vandalia on more than one occasion. To an outsider due to the limited size of Vandalia and the fact that the vendors were basically located together a large crowd seemed to be around all the time. It would appear that the personnel from Illinois did not properly conduct their own count of people attending the Grand when at Vandalia in other words due diligence was not carried out and is a contributing factor to the problem presently at hand.
If Illinois had conducted interviews with vendors they would have heard that a great number of the vendors were not happy with the Grand moving to Sparta and as such would not be going to Sparta, also a number of shooters also stated the same thing, this would have given the Illinois personnel an indication that all was not well and the idea of build it and they will come and would not insure the success that all hoped for from the move. Hind sight is a wonderful thing.

 

Can't shoot from the 14 because that means more concrete for clubs and we know what the opinions are on adding concrete arounde here.


Now as far as oldsters west of the Mississippi River shooting for free all I can say is

 

2 Plans in the woks HaHaHaHaHaHa MMMMmmmmmmHaHaHaHaHa 2 plans the Ship is Sinking, Illinois is Abandoning Ship

 

Maybe N1H1 has a Graph or Chart showing it is sinking, Abandon Ship Illinois Taxpayers, Abandon Ship, it's sinking

 

Could not agree more, problem is 2 wrongs do not make a right and Illinois probably never took the time to do it any righter (diligently) than the ATA did which is how the ATA eliminated due diligance by getting involved with a lease after they paid a lot of money to set the specifcations of any place they were going to be interested in ... The State anticipated big money based on numbers they were given and what they saw (crowds) that are much the same today if you listen to the numbers Lynn Gipson was talking about when he did his "Fantastic Direction" update (report) interview ... There again (the ATA) (hope it was scripted) he was talking 10/20 millions dollars generated in the general area yet the taxation went down considerably ... I cannot imagine (believe) it took the State of Illinois 10 years to realize the loss of over $22,000,000 but when a Political rival comes on the scene and points out major budget deficits and this dead horse sitting here collecting big money to keep it breathing and it can't break even some RED FLAGS all of a sudden appear ... I sincerely and in all my being hope the State continues to support and finance the WSRC so the ATA can continue building its bank account (Holdings), but would I bet on it, not on your life ...

If Illinois would of, and the ATA would of done what they were each supposed to do nobody would be looking at this mess and it would be an issue ... They didn't and now after the loss of many shooters (members) and then there will probably be 3 or 4 more quit (Sparta residents) if they have to move from Sparta, so on goes the spiral downword ... The ATA hired the right people at a cost to make sure it all got done right and then ignored them because those people didn't tell them what they wanted to hear ... Like peeing into the wind and not having a towel on hand to clean up the mess ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Dan,

That picture is worth a million dollars. Is the little doll related to you. Roger Coveleskie

 

We should all hope that the problems at Sparta are corrected. Maybe if the powers that be decide to go back to tougher target we can reclaim some of our lost shooters. I t may require an adjustment in the price of targets. It is apparent that the place is not paying it's own way. My thinking is it will not until the ATA can field a lot more shooters. We as shooters feel bad when we loose a small club, how will we feel if we loose the largest club in the world? We as shooters should start by electing qualified business men as our state delegates. The ATA leaders need help, lets give it to them, even if they are reluctant to use it.

A working agreement between E.C. and B.O.D. and the members would be an ideal situation. Just my thoughts on the subject what are yours?

Roger Coveleskie

 

Soon after I got out of grad school, I had more time than money to donate to various org. in my area. It was then I learned that org. have a life of their own. In order to advance through the chairs, you have to agree to that life and check your brains and or experience at the door. So goes the ATA. You have to worship at its altar if you expect to get the expense account and gun at the end of the rainbow. I talked to a new food vendor and the Grand. She told me the ATA said to expect 20,000 visitors a day. Sound familiar.

 

Once upon a time on a different day in a different city that statement was true.

 

While it has been brought out that the cost of operating the WSRC over that past 10-11 yrs has been in the neighborhood of 22 million dollars, it should be taken into account that not all of this cost is against the ATA operation.
As this is a Recreational Park operated by the IDNR a division of the State of Illinois the Sporting Clays, Cowboy Shooting, Archery Camp Grounds, Boating and Fishing will be part of the cost of this operation. How much of the operational cost of these other sporting venues would be assessed to these venues as well as the Park and to the ATA operation would be of interest to our members.
If the sole costs of the ATA portion were assessed against the ATA and were reasonable maybe the ATA could lease the portion of the park for the period of the shoots conducted by the ATA. The ATA Hall of Fame Bldg could be open for some of the year and charge an admission fee but be free to ATA members during shoots conducted by the ATA. I know this does not address the issue of reasonaly close accomodations or things to occupy family members during competition times.
Just an opinion and perhaps food for thought.

 

Actually, it has cost the State of Illinois over 22 million dollars to operate and maintain the WSRC for the past 10 years, now 11 years and the accumulated loss does not include year 11 as of yet ... I agree that all of the Organizations or Associations who utilize the facility should pay accordingly and do not think the ATA has caused the loss completely on its own ... If you check out the schedule for the entire year the facility is used less than half of the year but the cost of operations and maintaince goes on daily ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The big problem the WSRC has is that it's not a destination range. For having such a grand title of

WORLD

SHOOTING

RECREATIONAL

COMPLEX

It doesn't have a 1,000 yard high-power range

It doesn't have a full-auto range

It doesn't have a 100 yard indoor range

It doesn't have an International/Bunker range.

It has a short pistol berm, a trap line, skeet towers and a sporting clays range. All of these shooting formats are available all across the Midwest. A person doesn't need to get off the beaten path to shoot at a 25 yard handgun range or a Trap/Skeet field, since they likely have these at home.

Despite the lofty name, WSRC is just an ordinary local gun range with a HUGE trap line.Regular shooters never show up in sufficient numbers to require a HUGE trap line.

It's likely that the sporting clays range is the biggest non-event draw at the WSRC, since sporting clays fields are unique, and an interesting layout can draw shooters.

 

No she's not. Just a cutie that said what needed to be said.....

 

You did good and so did she ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Regressing a bit, does anyone else remember the statement being made that Ill. was going to build the center regardless of wether the grand located there or not? My aging memory withstanding, I am sure a group of us were told this by Mr. Acklin one evening at a W. Va. State shoot, just sitting around asking questions. If this is true, the whole business about the ATA misrepresenting numbers, while probably true, would not be a major factor of responsibility in this mess. When this was presented to the state legislature was it presented as a money maker for the state government or merely a way to draw some tourist dollars to a rural area? I can't recall this being touted as a path to a pot of gold for the state government. Smoking357 has some very good points about why the center has not become a shooting destination. Common sense would tell you have to offer some things that are somewhat unique to draw people very far off the beaten path.

 

TF1 ,
There was talk that the State of Illinois was going to build the facility either way, but they would of needed an aguement or at least logical reason to build it as you say to draw people very far off the beaten path, especially shooters ... The attendance proves it cannot draw a shooting crowd, maybe demo derby, or pig calling contest .. ? WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Latest word I'm hearing is the WSC will still be shutdown in September but may not reopen until Spring. This will save money and will allow IDNR more time to assess various ideas for new employee needs and operational plan for spring and summer months. It appears this facility may become a seasonal operation unless they open the "Longshot Bowling Lanes" for the winter months. Actually the bowling alley is not in the plans currently but I'm sure if we got behind the idea the state would be happy to find the money. We just need to promise 500 bowlers per league per evening. We could see if they would also include an indoor arcade with .22 rifle booths and maybe even "skeeball." The opportunities are endless we just have cone up with ideas before they finalize their new plan.

 

In the State I live in most of the county parks and ALL of the State Parks close for the winter season. The shooting complex is a STATE PARK.

 

Winter must come real early in Illinois, about 3 months earlier.

GB................DLS

 

That gives the WSC April-May-June-July-August to be open

Gary Bryant.........................Dr.longshot

 

I wonder when they are going to announce the new price schedules or will you just pull up and pay what ever they say the newest rates are ..? The Illinois State Lottery is catching hell since they announced their newest way of paying the winners ... Nothing new as of Friday PM on the States web site ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I would be surprised if there issn't a law suit in the near future if there isn't a budget passed. Even the Illinois Lottery officials are worried about people not playing in the future because of the States inability to pass a budget.

 

Clearly, the Lottery has to pay obligations owed. The State can't just walk off with players' money. The State is under no obligation to reopen the shuttered WSRC.

 

The Lottery Officials announced that they are only going to pay the winners of $25,000 or less until there is a budget passed ... I agree that the state cannot just walk off with players money's and never would of believed that the budget had anything to do with the State Lottery ... The WSRC does have a direct connection to the State of Illinois and the Budget, so it should be tied in with the budget being as its financed by it ... WPT ... (YAC) ...