care to help save my club? got any ideas?

I know there is a lot of talent and sharp minds on this website, so allow me to pick your brains.
As you know, the State of the Union is hurting the clay sports for the little guys. There are those that can afford it and continue on as if nothings happening. But for those that cant afford it, they question the cost and are not participating as much as they use to.
so help me save my range and maybe someone elses range who is lurking and reading.

Many know, my range is down to only 4-5 attending my shoots with zero during the week. Granted, I'm in the middle of nowhere and its hard to justify coming to a range that isn't much different than one that may be closer and more convenient.
Sponsors are not even looking at small venues with small crowds. Heck, White Flyer wont even deliver to us for a 1 pallet order.
I've tried round robin leagues, week day matches, 1-2-3 day matches....nothing works! Locals are farmers and they view clay shooting as a waste of time: its a dead location for locals. I've gone 2.5 hours in all directions to all the nearest clubs and they are all hunkering down and have no interest in being a team outside their gates.
So, I am totally depended on internet invites. It worked well when .com's were popular. But, it only tended to attract beginners. The talented tended to shy away except for a handful of good quality friends who supported me over the years. But, even they moved on.
So, is there anyone out there that has any ideas and or willing to throw us a bone and arrange a visit to south central MO to save my club from shutting down?
I'm just a 1 trap range with skeet as well. But, we do our best to be polite, friendly, and safe. Yes, we are in the sticks: I mean 30 miles to the nearest town. So, bring campers if you want.
Is there anyone out there that would like to supply scorers/pullers for an ATA sanctioned match? I'm not affiliated, but you're more than welcome to document and register your scores all you want/any proper way there is.
We can a handle 20. Heck, if we had 10, we'd open up the pot luck serving line again!
I'm all ears. Let me know what you can do and suggest. I hate to see this range go into oblivion....little by little. I give it one year and it'll be toast.
Thanks in Advance!

 

In our area (SW MI) partner shoots, Calcutta's are popular. There are 4 or 5 clubs within about 60 miles of each other that rotate different Sundays and Friday nights of the month. We get 15-30 shooters per event. There is another club that shoots games every Saturday. They draw 25-30 shooters most days. I'm not familiar with your area, so I don't know how may shooters you have. Most guys don't want to drive more than an hour. Have you reached out to any local schools to see if they have kids that want to put a team together? Its getting very popular around here. I know everyone says once the kids graduate, they are gone and won't shoot anymore. But its a way for parents and other people to see your club. 4h also has shooting programs. Give the shooters something that they can't get at their local club. Try doing a Saturday morning breakfast and games. Biscuits and Gravy is pretty easy. You can shoot 20 bird buddy/protections, eliminations/killers, back doors, bushwackers. Charge them $30, that includes breakfast and 5 games. We aim for making $.30/bird in games and try to pay out at least 50% to the shooters. At our club we do a 5 bird back door shoot for $5. One tie all tie and you rebuy for another $5. Its not hard for the guy that wins to make $40-$50. Your right, they won't drive 30 or 45 minutes to shoot practice rounds if their local club is 10 minutes away.

 

So, money is the draw, correct?
Schools are locked into all the other clubs closer to town.
Did the Calcutta thing.
I already do a 50yd shoot. I do duck boats, skeet/trap combo's, Annie Oakley's, turkey shoots, you name it. Again, no one comes anymore.
Area density is 1 person per 5 acres in my county.
My town has 150 people.
There are more cows than humans.
As odd as it seems, I actually drew people as far as WI, AL, FL, Minn, and AK at one time.
They all stopped coming due to the economics.
One of my 4 loyal shooters still comes from Colo: rare indeed. Durango to be exact. 900 miles.
Thanks for your ideas.

 

I think if you have tried all the things mentioned in this post…it’s only a matter of time. I wish it wasn’t so- but it’s going to happen to a lot more clubs in the coming years.

 

Got any leads on any clubs around me that would be interested in coming in Oct to shoot a small meet? Know any ears to whisper in?

 

Anyone in my area willing to bring a group in Oct? lmk.

 

Interesting questions there with an honest twist.

I say honest because no where did you consider dishonest methods.

One such tactic would be to offer easier targets. It was done in the past, most often in the west to lure those faux All Americans looking to pad their stats in search of free shells or All American Status. It also attracted wannabes seeking faux grand slams.

There is also the possibility of allowing shooters to score their own. That got someone a GAH Championship.

You can slyly offer easier traps to some. (Done still today)

Or you can advertise the heck out of your facility. Looks like you are doing a great job.

I hope to shoot there soon.

 

Bring some buddies with you in oct!
I let my group score their own now.
And, most new shooters who come to learn and join in don't know the difference between a 2 or3 hole target and don't care about scores. They just enjoy being on a retreat with guns, passing out from the pot luck.
I have an original rule here at Vanzant; its allowed last place to walk away with the trophy numerous times.
Last place can tag out during the trophy shoot and I shoot in proxy for them.
In other words, if there are any good shots on the 50yd line, they must get thru me to win. If I win, last place wins. and most good shots don't mind because in the long run, it gives the new shooter a memory of good sportsmanship and fairness.
This is why I will miss this range. We have/had some great things going on....and no one comes.

i/e: this mother shot 4 out of 100. She tagged out and walked away with the 50yd club trophy in 2014. She was all smiles and her family was proud of her. We were too! And, part of the shoot calls for us all to go to the local steak house and eat dutch. The owner always makes a table for us. This is where she got her presentation. When all the locals saw it and heard the applause, they all came to the table and asked what was going on. We handed out cards for 10 years.
no one called. dry well. so much for the P-R effort.

 

I think your ship has sailed, or sunk. Twenty years ago when I was telling everyone what the ATA was doing to registered shooting with the likes of Winston and Bradford at the helm was the time to act, it is over now. The last of the Buffs are gone. This is what the end looks like.

 

Brad, I don't have fields as big and as nice as yours. But, if you wanted to come out and kick back and let some of your dogs loose while you shot and let us do the work....lmk. Be glad to have ya! Maybe having you here might (draw) some others?
Know any celebrities, old or new, that might want to make a cameo appearance at Vanzant?
They can give pointers on shooting and I'll give pointers on mending fences. lol.

 

Do you have room for some Flyer rings?

 

???

 

Rocketfan,,,,,,,,,,,,,,good idea!!!!! bobski claims he is 30miles away from all. Perfect place for invites ONLY

 

are we talking 'live you know whats?'

 

You can say it. A live pigeon shoot.
We held a 15 bird, one ring shoot, on my buddy’s farm a few years ago. 30 shooters, 5-5-5. We didn't do it to make money, it was part of his annual picnic he has every year.

IT IS A LOT OF WORK.

 

guess how many staff I have...........1.
and of course all I can say is....go fund me! lol!

 

I have a ring but I haven't used it in 15 years at least. Pigeons are hard birds to keep for any time. They get sick and die, screw head. There's not even enough trap shooters around me to make a trap profitable.

 

sounds like im not alone.

 

The solution is simple. Put your targets in the 5 hole and throw 'em 60 yds. You'll be fighting off shooters waiting in line by droves. Then, don't add a $5 lewis class and they'll never come back. Don't get fooled by those supposed huge number of shooters who believe you need wobble trap( wide, long and varying height targets). That was tried decades ago at Vandalia and died a natural death.

 

to put targets on 5 hole......you need shooters.
find me shooters and i'll do whatever they want.

 

Bobski, even clubs near large population centers have seen huge dropoffs in shooter participation. Let's put it this way. Within 25 miles of my hometown we have at least 10 active trap clubs and one Sporting Clays operation. All have hemorrhaged shooters. The old timers on fixed incomes are quitting or cutting way back and the parents aren't as willing to finance their kids shooting because of high prices. Quite frankly, the end is near regardless of what you try.

 

im looking for answers, not reasons....from talented minds.
thanks for the reviews of why.
now, if I may, allow me to get back to how.
maybe its my old military blood still flowing in me. I don't quit, nor do I surrender.
I will find a way, either here, or where ever it shows itself.

 

We need more like you Bobski.

 

then join the fight.
whatever positive we come up with here, may possibly save someone elses club too. the power of the www.
I think they call it group think in the business world. some call it a round table discussion.
thanks.....now think.

 

these are the problems i see effecting the sport:

INEPT GOVT CAUSING INFLATION
LESS INCOME
TRAVEL DISTANCES
FOOD/LODGING EXPENSE
SOCIALIST ANTI GUN / GUNS ARE BAD MOVEMENT
LOW PAYOFF/REWARD FOR SHOOTING PARTICPATION
OLDER PRO GUN GENERATION AGING OUT
COST OF GUNS / GUN SPORT RELATED PRODUCTS

these are the areas we need to study, investigate, and resolve.
any takers? anyone care to add to the list?
post some ideas up.

if a ship is sinking, you identify the holes, and fix them. you don't just abandon ship.

 

Do a Calcutta like this. 25 and what you break.
10 from the 16 yard line
Miss 0 shoot handicap from the 25 (15 targets)
Miss 1 shoot handicap from the 24 (15 targets)
Miss 2or more shoot handicap from the 23 (15 targets)
Your pick on the money.

 

types of games aren't the issue. getting people to come to the games...is.
but thanks.

 

I don't think the answer is games or how you throw targets, your problem is location. There has to be an incentive for shooters to travel any amount of distance these days with the price of fuel. How much property do you own? I know you mentioned camp sites are available, maybe you should look into expanding in that area and draw non shooters to your place. Advertise it as the "Make America Great Again Camping and Shooting Center" touting the rustic escape from the liberal loony's and you will be at full capacity year round.

 

I cant remember who said it, but somewhere recently a friend told me....

'if you offered it for free, theyd still complain.'

i/e:

When I first opened, tickets were 50.00 for a 3 day meet. 250 birds mind you. I'll repeat that. a 3 day meet!
They were to bring a dish.
Instead, everyone brought chips and dip, not food.
They all flocked to the meet from everywhere.
Then they got sly. They only shot 5 games and forfeited the match, and just hung out the rest of the time visiting fellow www. members.
Then they'd ask me to carry over the leftover 5 games to the next match?
I did. (nice guy)
So, in a sense...they were shooting for 25.00 a match twice a year.
When we realized we were being too nice.....we nipped it, and they stopped coming.
So, I lived thru the cheapskate era of the clubs history. And, I fulfilled the quote someone made about free and still complaining. I saw it with my own eyes.
It was:
free coffee
free camping
free hookups for trailers/water and electric
free instruction
free patterning of guns
free gun loans
free shooting accessory loans
free kitchen use
free heating and ac
I cut the firewood
I pumped the septic
I cut the 5 acres
I fixed the equipment
My wife did the real cooking when she got tired of seeing dip and cookies. We bought and cooked the turkeys and slabs of beef.

Man hours....Friday = 3 to 10pm /7
....Sat = 8 to 10pm /14
....Sun = 9 to 1pm / 4
Me = 25 hours
Wife = 25 hours
The help = 40 hours

Total manhours = 90 hours per 3 day match. We'd fall in bed at night.



Nope, I aint going backwards.
And, like I said before, if I charged what I'm really worth, no one would come.
At this point, it doesn't matter. They still won't come even if it was free..............again.

 

Located northeast Indiana. One trap plus 2nd trap with skeet- 5 Stand overlay. Stopped shooting skeet due to shot fall problems. Club was slowly going down. Do not throw registered. Finally got a good president.
In the last three years. grant from DNR, for all new pat traps with callers, seven new throwers for 5 Stand, plus a pyramid trailer with 2 throwers, new gator, and paved parking lot. The club house is air conditioned. DNR stated one of the nicest small clubs in the state.

Thrown targets have increased each year. Month of May most targets in one month ever.
Steps to success
Monthly newsletter, (remind people to come shoot.)
Facebook page
Treat people like you would like to be treated.
The 5 Stand game seems to becoming more popular. It has went from perhaps 20% to over 60% of targets thrown.
Each year someone preaches doom and gloom. We have learned if something is scheduled they will shoot.
Life is short have fun.

 

Sounds like a membership club with dues and a good population base.

Apples and oranges, but thanks!


Treat people like you want to be treated?

I had a person bring rotten food off the floor of their van to my pot luck. My Wife intercepted it before it went on the line.
We are the example setters, hoping it rubs off on our guests, in most cases.

 

Bobski, I mean no disrespect with what i'm about to say. But those of us that have tried to give you examples of what has worked for our clubs, you have quickly dismissed and shot down. I've never been to your club and don't know the shooter population of your area, so I hate to make assumptions. But if you truly have tried everything and nothing has worked, there is one common denominator. I am giving you my perspective of a person that took a 30yr break from the sport. I came back to shooting about 2yrs ago. My time off from shooting had nothing to do with economics. I didn't follow the sport at all in my time away. I got back into at 44 years of age. Just finally had the itch to give it a try again, and I got hooked. One thing I noticed immediately was the age of the shooters. Me being in my mid forties was one of the younger guys out there. The average age shooting in one of our Calcutta's is probably 65-70. When I was a kid shooting the age was closer 35-40. We can go over the ten's of reasons of why the shooting population has shrunk, but that's not the problem. I guarantee you if you put on an interesting shoot and throw good targets you can create a following. If you our within 60-90 minutes of any decent amount of shooters. I will say it again as I did in my first post. GIVE THE SHOOTERS SOMETHING THEY CAN'T GET AT THEIR LOCAL CLUB!. I'm going to give you an example. I wanted to shoot Memorial day weekend. I live about 2hrs from where the Great Lakes Grand is located. The local club that normally has a Calcutta on the 4th Sunday of the month cancel because of the Grand. No one had a shoot scheduled for Monday, the Grand ended Sunday. So last week Monday we decide to try to throw together a shoot on Memorial day. We ran 2 50 bird partner Calcutta's. We gave the shooters burgers and brats free for coming out. We had 30 shooters in the first event and 26 shooters in the 2nd event. We did an option purse of $10 for the shooters combined score on the two events. With auction $ and the option purse we had $2400 is prize money. We had shooters come from 90 minutes away. For perspective, before you say we are a member club with a big shooting base. Last year our club had just 50 members of which maybe 10 actively shot. The bank account was going backwards, the club would have one Calcutta a month and was hit or miss if they would open for their weekly Thursday night and sunday practice hours. A group of us got on the board in January and we have been turning things around. We shoot Calcutta's one Friday and one Sunday a month. We do a breakfast and games one Sunday a month. We are open every Thursday and Sunday. We've done Fish Fry's and Meat Shoots on couple Saturdays. Membership is at around 85 so far this year and we've doubled the bank account in less than 6 months. So don't think there are no shooters and all of these small clubs will die off. We have another club that is 8 miles away from us that has over 500 members and they shoot cheaper than we do. But we've proven that there is opportunity to still grow a small club.

 

You need to take time and go to my website and see what I have offered for the last 10 years.
Seriously! Then you'd know I don't sit and balk over no shooters. I've been there done that... all.
It's a farming community that still meets on Thursdays to play banjo. It's a cultural clash. I've even offered them to come to my club for free, to use it. Nothing doing! I'm an outsider to them. It's white on white bias and prejudice. It's like getting the amish to look in a mirror. Some farms here date back to 1848 w/ a 4th generation still running it. If you ain't a cattleman, you ain't one of them.
I'm not dead weight. I kicked all the bushes!
The type of games and venue isn't the issue. It's lack of humans willing to go 30 miles into them there hills to spend money.
We use to throw ATA/NSSA birds and 8 people would come. Not even 2 squads. Most just used it to register birds.
Closest people with money live in Springfield. But, do you think Andy Dalton and Springfield R&G is going to come my place when they have their top notch facilities? Offering Family Day picnics with bounce barns and fireworks?
I even had caterers and they complained.
So, bless you for your insights and concern.
My only hope is a traveler's concept.

 

In looking at your website I can see why you don't get my locals or new shooters stopping by. You state its a private club, invite only, you don't have open shooting hours, its by appointment. If me and two of my buddies want to come out and shoot a couple rounds, I don't want to have to call and make an appointment and just shoot by ourselves. I'd try offering some open shooting hours, open to the public.

 

I had hours: 9 to 6, Mon-Sun and no one came.
Maybe 2 on a Saturday....in Oct.....just before dove season. Lol.
When I asked them why they came? They said, "the machines at their local club were broken."
Basically, I was their last resort.
I switched it to "call first" after that classic sit around and wait game.
My club needs more than an hour open review or venue shuffle.
It needs a demographic fix. Like a dying body would take a needle in the arm to live.
It's why drawing people (outside the demographic) worked.
But now, (where they come from) is knocking them off.
None the less, thanks!

 

Bobski:

I drive 15 miles (20 mins) to a small trap range with 2 houses. ....One house is 16 yd singles only (manually pulled). ....The other house is for long distance money games. ....The turn-out for singles is small compared to the number of games shooters. ....This range is only open Thurs evenings 6pm-10pm and Saturday mornings. -$8.00 per round.

I drive 27 miles (45 mins) to a different range with 2 houses. ....Only open Fridays 6pm - 10pm. ...Nice turn-out of shooters each time I visited there.- $13 / 50 targets. ....Voice activated callers.

I belong to a trap club 38 miles (60-75 mins) from my house. ....A two-house range with well-kept grounds and voice callers. ...$5 for members $8 for non-members. .....Members can shoot 5 days of the week, while 2 days are open to the public. ....Times are 12p-4p on weekends, 1p-4p Tues-Thurs-Fri, 4p-7p Wed. ....Range is staffed only on public days. ....Other days are self-policed by members.

I mention this because there is no need to be open all the time. ....However, set hours are preferable to calling ahead to make reservations. ....Perhaps set days/times for skeet and different days/times for trap ???

How close are your competing ranges? ...Do they offer trap & skeet? ....Are their hours more convenient to shooters? ....Evening hours and weekends attract working people.

While your website provides a lot of info, it could possibly benefit from an update. ....Looking at 124 photos (most of which are 4-6 years old) is boring.
....While safety is indeed important, your "terms" seem overbearing the way they are presented.

I am baffled by your "suggested" price of $5 per round. ....Is this negotiable, or does it vary?

 

To give you an idea how kind I am, if people came to my club and forgot their wallets or were short, I'd wave the cost. If they didn't have a gun, I'd loan one free.
Knowing I'm in one of the poorest counties in the state, I made it easier for them. Everything is suggested. I had a guy trade farm tractor repair for a match ticket. I took it. follow me now?
Are you in your States poorest county?
You may or may not know this but webs-com went under. My website is a ghost site. It works and can be viewed, But, I can't update it, save for one or 2 line edits. Pictures won't load anymore. I have a second one up and running. But, it's not as nice. In 13 years of having one, all my data reveals, no one ever came as a result of seeing it. Honestly, the actual reason for the sight was to let forum people know I wasn't a scam and that I wasn't inviting them down some dirt road to rob them. Not many would come blind to the boondocks without some kind of assurances.

Respectfully, my business model/advertisement isn't the issue, its people/state of the nation/income/location.
Cost at local ranges in the area vary from $7.00 to $12.00 a game. I'm still the best deal in the area.

My goal isn't financial gain. It's promoting the sport and community interaction. To get people away from their computers and back into the great outdoors. It's not easy being an ambassador of sport and fun, without people!
There is an overall fear of the nation getting worse, (doom and gloom,) and people are not spending or depleting resources in this area. Namely ammo. Ammo is used around here to hunt with. Because hunting puts food on tables. Clay pigeons aren't food. Fun is not part of the culture here. Up at 3am 24/7 to milk or hay the herd. Sunday church, family picnic, afternoon of gossip....back to work. shooting on Sunday? It doesn't happen!

I don't seem to be getting any 'thinking outside the box,' but I do thank all those that are trying.
Drastic issues require drastic ideas.
I'm still aiming at the CT travelers concept.
Target: those that can afford to shoot and travel. Those with a community mindset. Those who desire fellow clubs to succeed over scores and purses.
Like I say; if I can get 10 in Oct, I will continue. If not, I go annual in April.
If I got 20, I'd faint, because my wife would have to cook again.

FYI, I'm a landlord back east: I've seen it all.
Terms keep people safe and protects me from those who would say (and they try) they weren't told. Any range without them is suicide.

keep the ideas coming.

 

To be blunt, I think you answered your own question by your responses to others. Your in the wrong area. By this I mean lack of a close proximity to people with shooting interests, money, and time. Recreational shooting is/was never a sport for poor people.
Back to your other question about drawing shooters from far away, you need to offer something that no one else does. I know I'm not going to travel hours just to shoot basically practice. I don't have an answer to what this 'something ' is but a few people have made some good suggestions. Sorry to be blunt but that's just me. I used to sit on the board of one of Indiana's largest gun clubs and we had trouble drawing crowds. People are fickle about what they do and where they do it.

 

and its for that reason, the sport is shrinking. thanks for your opinions.

anyone else have a factual idea?

 

You keep asking that after people give their opinions- it sounds like no one near you is interested in shooting, and there’s not enough attraction for your club to draw shooters from other clubs/areas. What else could there be to do?

 

no, im asking for answers. something that will work. so far, everything suggested has been tried.
the only thing new that I saw so far is a live bird shoot.
im very appreciative of all those that responded.

let me try it another way. let me try a personal approach.
knowing theres nothing around me,
what would it take YOU and you buddies to come to mo to shoot a small shoot on a road trip?
money purse?
gun raffles?
meet new faces?
relax and kick back, do some camping?
trout fishing?
meet me and my family?
go to a local shin dig to meet the locals?
attend a church service with us?
free ticket?
good local food out in town with friends?
----------------------
with that said, here are some of the reasons people come/came now:
1. escape winter in Colorado in april.
2. escape winter in minn & wi in april.
3. to meet other forum members from the www.
4. learn how to shoot for free and pick the brain of a retired pro class shooter, 1 on 1.
5. sample the games before diving in head first.
6. unwind.... get out of the city.
7. bond with buddies/family/son-daughter.
8. practice for duck/dove season
9. practice shooting to prep for bigger shoots.
10. sarahs cooking.
11. win trophies and club titles.
12. play a variety of games.
13. to watch the leaves turn in oct.
14, have fun with guns.
15. good local food out in town with friends, roasting each others shooting ability.
16. give the kids something to do besides watch tv.


I make my shoot a spread to appeal to everyone.
it consists of:
skeet
trap
handicaps
turkey shoot
annie Oakley
duck boat
50 yd match
blind draw calcuttas
night birds

all in one weekend.
many come that are masters of trap, masters of skeet, and get humbled by some that are good at turkey shoots and annie oakleys. I had a fellow place 2nd in the 50yd match with an 24" Mossberg 500 with a ic choke and folding stock. how? he shot a lot of buzzards and hawks on his farm that use to attack his live stock and was a dead aim with that ole gun of his.
he only lost because the fellow that beat him did it in one shot to his 2.
ya never know who will win.
which leads me to the last reason people come to my shoot.

fairness on an equal playing field.

so....that's the way I will leave it for the thinkers and shakers to ponder and answer.
what would it take.....YOU to travel the distance?

and again, THANK YOU for trying. keep the new creative out of the box ideas coming.

btw...here he is with his pg 24" m500 in the boat, tracking a hard right from the trap bunker.

 

we even gave free marshmallows for the kids and kept campfires stoked.
and how can anyone pass up that bbq?
cant say we didn't try.

all but a memory now.
help save this......
its as American as apple pie.
and remember, your comments are for all to view. hopefully everyones comments may help someone elses club viewing this topic too.

 

Since you've seemed to have tried everything that you or anyone else can think of, how about young, beautiful, topless, female scorers?

 

wont work in this bible fearing county, here in them that Ozarks.;>

besides, you all would probably shoot your worst scores because of it.

 

on a more interesting note, one of the other fellows on another website mentioned that the nations population is in credit card debt beyond belief. regardless of the reason, (covid or plain inflation) the result is, many are trying to get out of that debt and all money is going towards working down the balance and interest fees.
many unfortunately are living well beyond their means too. not just the result of inflation.
there are lot of people who don't know when to quit spending on worthless stuff.

his input was a reason for the lack of participation, and wasn't an answer. but it does gives us something to contemplate. its broken, how do we fix that?
time?
votes?
debt forgiveness? (like the left wingers do for college kids who had no intentions of paying for it from the get-go?)

 

I’m scratching my head a bit trying to come up with something different. Any Scout troops in the area? You could offer the opportunity for earning their shooting merit badge, and maybe even let them camp over night while they are there. You might even be able to charge a nominal fee for the class. Invite their parents to accompany them and spend time outdoors as well. Does your state have Hunter education classes? Make your club available for the classes. There are hunters, although I’m not sure how many, that haven’t been introduced to clay shooting. Maybe some future customers there. At the very least you will be listed as a class location and seen by some who may not know of you. In my area a lot of parents take the class with their kids even though they don’t have to. In both instances I’ve answered a lot of questions and seen interest shown into what the club does.

 

I offer the grounds for free to any scout leaders wanting to use the range for qualification.
had no takers.
did I tell you I had radio spots for the range?
no takers.
there weren't many rocks I haven't turned over in 13 years.
dry well.

most around here prefer the father son day for training. besides, I require it. children must be accompanied by parents the whole time. no babysitting offered at my range.

I still say it has to be the state of the nation. at least back when there was money...those with it, came.
thanks for your input.

 

Who would notice?

 

You can't be serious.
Debt forgiveness would stop people from buying stuff they don't need and can't afford??

You're smarter than that.

 

ok, its official.
we have topic drift.

 

mudpack, ever hear of 'the year of jubilee?'

 

Of course....old Jewish tradition.

 

the tradition that......

 

...is no longer observed, even by orthodox Jews?

Regardless of the answer, forgiving consumer debt today would not cure our propensity for buying stuff on credit that we neither need nor can afford.
And I think that was your goal. (according to the way I read post #45)

 

And down the rabbit hole went this thread.

Flyersarebest
Moderator

 

yep. it always happens.


so....back on track.
what would take YOU to travel a 2.5 hr distance; or, how much would it cost YOU to spend a weekend and one night shooting from where you live?

 

If it's me you are asking, I wouldn't drive 2.5 hours to shoot Trap. Pigeons? I've driven 4 hours one way. You can't go by me anyway. I could list 10 Trap clubs within 30 minutes of my front door. Another 10-15 within an hour's drive. Sporting Clays? 30 minutes to California Hill and another 30 to Nemacolin. Two more large top of the line courses another 20-30 minutes farther out from them. Since I don't shoot registered Trap targets anymore, I don't go to any club but my own, and that's to shoot just the Thanksgiving and Christmas shoots, and once in a while a Thursday night annie shoot.. Even the annies have gone down from 30 shooters to less than 12. I was there Thursday night (open to the public Trap and Skeet) and they had 8 shooters, NO COMPONENTS IS THE REASON.

But I have it better than most. I live 6 minutes from my club, Library Sportsmen's Association.
Google it to see the website. The pictures on the site are older. We are working on new Skeet houses (4) and expanding the parking area for the Skeet clubhouse, and new LED lights for the 5 Trap fields and the 2 Skeet fields. The main clubhouse and parking lot were redone a few years ago. Just for a thumbnail sketch.

LARGE main clubhouse
Medium large new Skeet clubhouse
5 Trap fields (1 wobble Trap)
2 skeet fields
8 machine 5 stand
50-100 yrd rifle range
6 lanes electrically controlled indoor pistol range
3D walk through archery course.
I'm going to post pictures of the new to us, 15 machine bunker soon. The first "practice" shoot was today 6/4.

I've been a member there since 1977. 4 different stints on the BOD. Cut so much grass on a rider, it took four days to get it all finished, that by the time I was finished it was time to start over. Plowed snow on the parking lot and the LONG driveway at 6:00 am when we had a registered shoot. Ran our eight trap 5 Stand every Friday from 3:00PM to 11:00PM. FOR 5 YEARS. My wife and I didn't go out on a Friday night in all that time.
I was one of the instigators to build it. It cost the membership just shy of $17,000.00. We paid it off in 23 months.

When I started, we had 950 members, the dues were $40 initiation and $40 yearly. Now we have close to 2000 and it's $200.00 initiation and $150.00 per year. And there is a LONG waiting list. I've been there so long I haven't had to pay dues for 6 years. 25 years' service, 65 years old= Free membership.

I would rather spend my money in a casino.
The rooms, food, drinks, show/event tickets and some airfares are all COMPED. We haven't had to pay for a hotel room in 38 years.

I don't think there is much you can do. You're in that proverbial "between a rock and a hard place." Bad economy, NO COMPONENTS, and in an area where the shooters either died off or moved. I feel for you, but I don't think it's worth putting out any more money if people are just too far away.

Good Luck

 

To shoot trap?
I'd have to be paid by the hour.

 

finally, factual inputs. thanks fly'.

good input.
most that come here don't do it to shoot clay. they come to visit me. would you travel 3 hours to meet new people and make lasting friendships?
my visitors do. more are out there; and, all it takes is an invite.

look, I know im small change. and i predicted the outcome long ago.
interesting note here is what I saw years ago, the sport was reverting back to those that can afford it; and, the basic survival notion that there is strength in numbers.
sort of like a sinking ship with men in the water and those in the life boat. those in the boat are dry, those in the water are shark bait.
clubs have a better chance of surviving and the industry knows this; so, exceptions to cost and inventory are given to them. it may not be much, but the industry knows members will be loyal to a club and pay a little more to maintain the (life boat.).
win win for the club and the industry.
lose lose for the non members who are forced to eat leftovers at walmart.
im drowning and see no life preserver in my general vicinity.
im not done. im still not in the sharks jaws yet.
thanks for all the insights.


btw, no components is the result of socialists trying to purge means of americans manufacturing gun related products at home. a win at the polls should fix that.

mud', sounds like the clay sports has become desert survival where everyone stays close to the oasis. to venture out into the sand dunes means sure death. im in the dunes.

 

Yes. You are.
And that's why I don't see much hope for your club; you're just too many miles away from your market.

You can serve the tastiest food, throw the best targets at the cheapest price, have amenities like free camping, and the majority of the shooters within 200 miles will still have closer, more convenient ranges to go to, even if they are not as attractive as yours.
Location, location, location.

I wish you the best, but inviting shooters and volunteer workers from your forum friends from all over the world probably won't be the club's salvation.

 

has in the past. on to another oasis.
thanks.


btw,
1 Game Skeet Or Trap In My Area:

Rockbridge Gun Club = 30.00
Rover Gun Club = 6.00
Big Piney Gun Club = 7.00 Sponsor Only
Top Of The Ozarks = 7.00 Sponsor Only
Ozark Shooters = 10.00
Bass Pro Ceder Lodge = 20.00
Fulton County Trap = 7.00
Vanzant Clay Pigeon Farm = 5.00 = Or, Range Card, 11 For 4.50 Ea

Cant say im too expensive.

 

Bobski,
About the only thing I haven’t read is this idea…(only if people are shooting at the other clubs)…
You call a meeting with the other club operators and develop a type of rotating league). Develope an 8 week (or whatever#) prize that requires people to attend each club event.
This is being done by two clubs and to be considered for the grand prize, you must attend a specific number at BOTH clubs.

Oh, one other idea… attend a town gathering and ask the local public their opinion or ideas for a shoot.

best of luck with your brainstorming.

 

thanks ar.
your idea is what we call back east (the travelers) concept or...round robin.
no bods at the locals clubs care to do it in 'moo'souri. I tried.
local town gathering?
I don't play a fiddle or farm. im an outsider to them. lol.
thanks for your time.

 

Our club has a winter banquet every year, $100 tickets - sells out every year -Plus raffles -auction - meal - Gave away 45 guns and took in $70,000. Even the local fire department stole our idea to help out there needs. Everyone wants to have a good time -Drinks some beer and win a gun.

 

that's out of my league.
my crowd brings a covered dish and prizes are found in the walmart sporting goods section.

 

Maybe you need a bigger crowd --We use adds in the major city's around us. We have people traveling 50 miles to come. Many door prizes donated to our auction are donated by business and club menbers..a club member donated his North Dakota cabin for a fishing trip and brought $1500 -Another member has a laser and engraved two hunting knifes that brought $700.

 

and now you know the problem. there is no crowd!
biggest town is springfield and most there say 2 hours is too far. all the big s&t clubs in springfield/Joplin area have the cigar smokers sewn up. and for the poor crowd, the city commission rec committee has 3.00 games offered at the public ranges. its all sewn up.
they aint comin' to my po'dunk shoot. I tried for 10 years.
heck, to give you perspective as to my (location location location,) there are 450 people in my town......and 2,500 cattle. and 30 miles from a store.

 

wooo wooo......I just got my 4th sign up in oct!
hes coming from central Kansas too. 6hrs.

 

I have been reading your post from day one - I have made suggestions. - Read every one of your post -- You're not in it for the money --Trying to promote the sport --claim you're an outsider --What was your resining to build your club at this location? --Our club has 450 members within a 20-mile radius population of 37,000 people. --Knowing your population base when you built your club, what was your target percentage of the population you were shooting for to maintain your club? Percentage whys If you have six shooters show up every week you are doing as good as we are. -- Location -Location -Location

 

I bought the hay farm with the range and clubhouse already built by prior owner, going to seed w/4' of grass.
visit my website and read up on me and the history.
thanks.

 

then I fixed it up..........

 

looking at my records....
I had 11 visitors last year.
im currently looking at 7 this year.

if all goes well, I may tie last years number in oct.
lol.

 

just had a man from k.c. show interest via.....word of mouth from a friend attending.
anyone reading this, if you want to help, feel free to pass the word about my situation.
word of mouth is a valid means to promote shoots.
there are still good people out there. its just a matter of getting the word out to them about us.
so, im turning to the good people of atc to help.
be proactive in helping the sport and our fields mission. thanks.
and...why not just come and meet me over a campfire? be glad to have ya.
times running out.

 

Bobski where is your Gun Club? Call me 614-448-8328 Gary Bryant ATA Life Member, 82 yrs old.

GB..........................DLS

 

south central mo in the Ozarks near the northern boarder of ark..
im 3 hours due south of lynn creek, mo t.s. assoc. hq..

 

bobski call me 614-448-8328 my phone was on safe mode. Hope you called me/ did you?

GB................................................DLS

 

bobski name of your town, i need a house to rent cheap, they are not renewing my place, must be out middle of September.

gary bryant i am 82 years old.

GB...........................................................DLS

 

willow springs or west plains. phone issues here. copper grid land lines acting up. will call asap.
The driving distance from Columbus, Ohio to West Plains, Missouri is: 620 miles / 998 km one-way.12 hours 12 mins.

 

Maybe the Shooters just don’t like you
Ask your self did I step on to many
Shooters toes I’ve seen this happen before
At several local clubs

 

I cant get any more laid back than I am now.
all that come to my club are by invite only. if they didn't like me, they wouldn't be here and vice-versa.
most who no longer come stopped coming when they realized they couldnt get away with taking advantage of me anymore.

 

That could be the problem- how are you going to invite people that would like to shoot there but don’t know you and vice versa?

 

so whats your suggestion?

 

Open it up? Not require an invitation to attend?

 

been there done that.
tried public hours, membership, etc...
im too far out in the sticks for the people with money, to come.
and since my range is not a commercial enterprise or member owned, I must invite shooters. its my back yard.
therefore, everyones invited.

 

Then the answer is simple: invite more people.
I know you are inviting/have invited everyone on this forum. Invite MORE!!!

 

How do you change that?
Move closer to a population center?
Face it, because of your location you'll never be a high-volume club....for the very reason you just stated.
So, what can you do?
Lower your expectations. Enjoy the people who do come to shoot with you. Look at the glass as half full. That's all I can say.

 

You should become the coach for the 4 h and get thier parents involved.
Guss

 

thank you for your inputs guss.
I don't think 10 a YEAR is too high an expectation.
nor, I dont think 4 a YEAR is a reasonable expectation.
oct shoots have been canceled forever. I just held my last one a month ago, with 4 attending.
would you drive 3000 miles round trip to hold a shoot with 4 shooters?
I do. basically the internet is dead, and that was my target market.
I never expected high volume, but it happened 10 years ago. it grew. go see my group shots on my website.
then, as prices and communism settled in, shooting in general started to die off.
as far as 4h, im not a day care. besides, the other clubs are doing that. its all sewn up.
and add to that, the ship is sinking and the other clubs are greedy and wont share. (fyi, I hate the coined phrase...'we are all in this together' because its the farthest thing from the truth.)
round robin matches don't interest them nor do they advertise me. yet, in my club I have all their phones and locations posted for visitors to see and use. other clubs treat me as the competition, not a fellow enthusiast.
maybe if the other clubs banded together, the shooters would see that its a network of good people, not just one location of people.

my market use to be the curious.
my only market left is the retired group....
those that LIKE to travel and have money.
and we are all dieing off.
my last 4 came from colo, and bigtown 65 miles away.
I use to get guys from tenn, ohio, wis, minn, ind, ok, texas, alabama, and ga. they all came from gun website forums. guys wanted to meet the people behind the screens and it worked.
thats why I use to (invite) guys on websites to come.
but as predicted, within 4-5 years it got old to them.
at one time I had 25 website forum invites posted at one time. it netted 10-15 twice a year.
not much, but it was perfect to manage for my layout. it was the hay day of the club.
some came back, some didn't. those that did come back liked my program and 'us.'
but its over.
4.00 a gallon and 10.00 a box killed the middleman.

 

4 h kids pay a one time fee to sign up and the kids can shoot as much as they want. The 4 h pays the club for the birds .
You have a weekly practices and some parents will shoot. They also need a place to shoot archery air rifle and 22. and have tournaments.
It would put you back on the map.
Those little bugger pickers shoot and shoot and shoot then beg for more shells.
Sounds like you've given up so tell me why you can't get a 4 h team?
Guss

 

not interested.
read what I wrote.
its sewn up with the other clubs. theres only so many 4h kids to go around.
-------------------













anyone else?

 

Yep- shut her down.

 

anyone else?

 

I can say what I would do if I owned that property .....

I would get a FFL and all the proper Federal, State, and Local licenses to operate .....

I would contact all the 'big name shooters' that offer clinics, and see what it would take to host those type of events .....

I would put in back stops to offer other than shot-shell use .....

The attraction of buy, sell, trade with a 'range' to try anything 'used' has worked for others .....

I would contact those who sell 'bulk' reloading supplies, buy what you can, and offer that option as a draw for those making the 'trip' .....

A place to shoot, buy/sell/trade, take clinics, eat, BS with others, and so on, attract people .....

A place to park a 'home on wheels' would be a plus .....

You offer 'not much', you get 'not many' ..... You offer what is not available to many, you give them a good reason to visit 'far and away' places .....

 

thanks user1. good info. we think alike.
now please take time to visit my website and see how much of that I already did.
1. its rustic, but its a 50 yd rifle/ pistol range. no one was interested. and, it was free!
2. 4 rustic camp sites, 2 with power and water, 6 total. free.
3. had locals set up tables, free.
stocked all 5 gauges w/ wads to match. both new and reloads.
I offer my clinics during matches.
see all those targets? those were the glory days.
annie oaklies, turkey shoots, 50yd matches, duck boats....you name it I did it.
I offered a LOT for LITTLE, and it was enjoyed by MANY.

 

Every time someone offers a suggestion, your reply is that you’ve already done it. Maybe you have, but I think it’s more that not many people know about your club’s existence. Not many people are going to travel a long way for a “fun” shoot, especially a 1-day event.


Shooting is down, everywhere- you can bet a small operation like yours will suffer the most, unfortunately.

 

it use to be a 3 day event, with night birds. ive had to scale back but will scale up when times change.
and as stated and agreed to by many, you are right, its a sign of the economic times.
and this is why im looking for the golden bullet.
im still looking.
im posting these pics to show you im not a slouch who just just sits around and whines. I pulled these matches off with the aid of my wife and one caretaker....and others who saw us struggling and volunteered. kudos to old school americans whom I miss dearly.

 

We really don't think on the same level ...... That is not an insult, but an observation .....

Again, nothing personal ...... but getting people to attend your instruction vs Richard Marshall Jr is more than apples vs oranges ......

One table with five non-Trap firearms is not a buy/sell/trade mecca .....

"its rustic, but its a 50 yd rifle/ pistol range" ...... well ...... "rustic" is not the terminology I would use ......

Any 'business venture' is simple ...... you can't make money off people that don't have it, so to attract those who have plenty of disposable income, "rustic" isn't going to get the mileage you seem to need .....

I can eat well, or buy one, or all three, 'AR' style rifles much closer to home ..... But try a different Trap shotgun, or other firearm, to possibly buy or trade for, takes some time, fuel, and effort for most ......

If you look at the picture of your 'game' shooters standing on the line ...... I would guess most would like to shoot a few targets with a Ljutic, K-80, Perazzi, or ???? and some would probably be interested in a clinic from some of the top shooters who offer them .....

 

heck, besides night birds, we even had a room reserved in town for a meal! and these pics are showing only the ones that came. many had to leave early to get back to work in minn..
and may I remind you all, many you see here NEVER HELD A SHOTGUN. I was their introduction to a sport they only heard of or saw on the internet. to them, being allowed the chance to compete in a sport where only due paying members could attend, meant a lot to them and they went away changed for life.
I will find the answer. I don't quit. either a new prez will loosen the log jam or someone reading will nail it and get the credit for saving my range.
keep it coming.

 

I catered to the ones who needed a leg up and were proud of their grandfathers stevens shotgun.
seeing an old gun going off in a kids hands beats being around guys whining about slow pullers for sure.
please note the kid shooting. note the smock. he was cooking and serving meals to those who were old and couldn't stand in the food line. America still exists in them thar hills.
besides, those with p and k guns don't need me nor my range....and wouldnt come unless I handed out Cuban cigars. yet, many who did have k and p guns went away educated with one of my clinics.

thanks for conversing user'.
you shoot trap. thats good enough 'in common' for me.
come by some day, kick it down a notch, and join us. bring some buddies. it would be a good start back up the success road. be part of it.
our neighbor will even put the cattle in the far paddock when we hold a shoot....just for you!

 

this is why the oct shoots are no more.
anyone care to guess how much I lost on my oct shoot with 4 shooters?