Sparta Beer Tent Like Old Times

Butterfly You can't READ I was at Vandalia. I made the 27 there with a 99 from the 26. First time I ever shot at night. Was a heck of a rush for me. Next, someone said Romey/Monty was not a real name. Unlike butterfly IT IS so I felt compelled to answer that question. Have YOU ever worked with Gipson?? I did. He earned my respect. FANTASTIC direction. I think that is an over statement by a large degree but I do think we are stronger than we have been for some time. Numbers--I SAID I did not have numbers. But I still wonder if AIM combined with Grand would paint a different picture. Please furnish numbers for each. I can be re-directed. Live in the past? Vandalia IS DEAD. Sparta, I distinctly remember shooting there this year. IT IS NOT DEAD until the ATA says so. Beer tent. If all you who have boycotted the Grand would show up, you might get together again. I would love top see it. First one's on me for you! By the way, if everyone who attended the Grand and the other big shoots took your stand and boycotted your shoots and only attended the Grand, how many shooters would you have??

Family Guy It makes absolutely no difference how many shooters we have when it comes to the Grand. How about YOU do this. Bring the SAME PERCENTAGE of shooters from YOUR state that Ms. does just one time. We do FAR more to support the ATA per shooter than you. Since we only have a small number of shooters would you just have us quit??
The 25 shooter rule will never have an effect on your big shoots so why do you care anyway?? AND personally, I would not care if ALL half yard punches were done away with. But if they are not, level the field--we did. In fact, you guys should want us to assign yardage. You are the ones with the most to lose. Oh and by the way, I think reductions should be mandatory too!!

Have Fun. Jim

 

Most of the shooters in OH and PA are not interested in driving 13 hours when they have 3 huge shoots in their backyard why they should be. And also you said you don't have the numbers and OH is boycotting IL. The last I saw OH was around fourth in attendance in Sparta. What are your attendance numbers? Cant be more the 22. That is all the shooters you have that have shot over 1000 handicap targets.

Yes, actually it does. Now we will have even more shooters getting 27 yard pins and getting to yardage where they cannot compete. Then moaning that the targets are too hard. It affects us Jim. OH and PA shooters don't have as much of a vote as the 20+ shooters in your state.

That is conflict with your previous post isn't it? Your marketing plan has failed in your state. Don't push it on us.

Your and your friend Gipson aren't serving cool ade here.

 

Sorry. That doesn't cut it. Quit having a small amount of shooters. The South kind of sucks for finding Trap ranges. They're few and far between, and they often have astronomical prices and goofball range rules.

Everyone has this stereotype of the South being into guns, but I have to educate people that the "Shooting Belt" cuts from Upstate New York, down to Maryland and sweeps West from Minnesota down to Missouri. Way out West, things pick back up, but that's because of all the East Coast and Midwest transplants from generations ago.

This lack of Southern shooting isn't just confined to shotgun. It goes for pistol/rifle, too. The South is big on hunting, nowhere near as good as the North for competitive shooting.

Dixie needs to get more ranges and more shooters.

 

Jim Porter a lot of what you said is true, but How can we Life Members and yearly members support an ATA with the likes of a NW tearing down and departing our original Target Settings and stabbing ATA President in the back with his personal letter writings to Delegates as Outlined in Trap & Field by ATA President Neal Crausaby.

Everything NW Touched was screwed up royaly, And guys like Carson Woods that caused the demise for a few years from Vandalia of Budweiser and their support, and the loss of the Sausage Vendor, and gave us Carnival/Fair food, of poor quality, the ATA had to fire him to correct the years of losses he caused alone.

Vandalia needed nothing, it was all there, and more. THE GRAND AMERICAN a location our trapshooting forefathers saw and built. They did not have big salaries, most donated their time and energy to a Sport They Loved, like I do yet today, I support a Competetive Target, Just Like Dan Bonillas does.

The ATA absolutely need to be overhauled to bring it back to what it is supposed to be. Men with honor to run it and support what the ATA forefathers built, this is what I want and support, Trapshooting was Mis-Lead by guys like N.W known as N1H1.

This person Mislead the ATA and caused it greatest problems, most of the results are located in Sparta

Some of you say I do not shoot ATA targets, well have your foot cut off and see how long it is before you regain your balance to feel safely to hold a loaded Trapgun. I personally have earned more than my fair share of ATA Trophies, and held the position of the 27 yard line for years and AA27A qualification. I love this Sport of Trapshooting and have dedicated my life to it.

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

 

Gary If you no longer shoot ATA Targets You Should Become a Sausage Vendor at the Grand in Sparta.

 

The "Blame Game" cannot justify the attendance at Sparta dropping off as suggested by some ... Boycotted seems to be a generic word used as opposed to eliminated when it comes to the grand for all of those who choose to not attend for what ever reason be it travel, time alotted to attend, additional cost, or _________ ( fill in the blank) when they have other shoots available to them that does not create problems for them to attend ... The ATA sending the talking head (Lynn Gipson) to give a status report or up date is about as assinine as it gets ... I hope it was scripted as opposed to off the cuff on Lynn Gipsons part so he does not look quite like the fool he ended up looking like in his interview ... The plans that have been in the works for months are apparently still in the works so all is not lost for those who do attend the grand, so keep your fingers crossed and pray ... The ATA can probably secure the existance of the WSRC if they agree to pay the differential that is has cost the tax payers of the State of Illinois out of the profiits generated for the ATA at the shoot ... The ATA being "NOT FOR PROFIT", would surely eliminate any profits in a damn quick hurry ... I do not anticipate that happening but you never know, you know being as desparation can cause many major mistakes ... I would not want to be on the EC or BOD that keeps the grand from being reality, if by chance that happens ... Its all speculation at this point, sooner or later someone will have to let the members know what their future holds so they can plan accordingly ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Smokin 357 YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT we do meed more shooting support in the South. Ark, and Tn seem to get it but Ms. SUX!!! I have worked on this for almost 20 years and even met with the Lt. Gov and MPWF Director on two occasions---NO HELP!! Did not even ask for money...just support for youth shooting programs.
I was a sporting goods rep for Mossy Oak and many others. They will play golf and suck at it but you can't beg them to come to the gun club for even a fun get together. Everybody here has guns and use them hunting. Our deer seasons run from Sept to Feb in one form or another and then turkey season in the spring. We are over-run with deer and because of that they are small unless intensively managed and now we have a hogg epidemic. If we had a week of deer season, maybe things would change. YOU have a better grasp of our life than most of the people living here.

 

Would one have to sign a 10 year lease?

 

In the past few weeks I have been getting phone calls and questions about what I think is going on with Sparta and the ATA. Yesterday at the Cardinal Center I was asked lots of questions and conversely asked lots of questions. I can refer you to my past posts on here and from years ago on TSC.Com of what I predicted would happen. In seems more and more what I foresaw then and tried to warn shooters about is fast approaching.

It doesn't matter if Sparta closes today, next month, or next year. The real issue hindering registered shooting is the ATA's political set up that gives a state that has less the 5 full squads of shooters the same vote as one with 500 squads and this is the difference between Mr. Porters state and PA. Throw in Ohio, New York and the other mega states mentioned and any businessman can see the problem.

Over the years I have shot registered targets in 38 states and 4 Canadian provinces I use my real world trap shooting experience to base my opinions. I also spent about 20 years on the business side of the gun world. What is going to kill Sparta in the end is the vendors leaving. I ate a sandwich yesterday at a vendor who had been at Sparta and this week the CC. By Friday, 5 days, he had done as much business as he had at the grand for the whole shebang. Which shoots will he be attending? Another told me that many grand vendors have seen a loss of 10% in business ever year since year one at Sparta and none that I talked to had renewed there lease yet, in fact they told me that the ATA was offering one year leases to them.

The ATA members who blindly follow the EC remind me of Hillary supporters in the Democratic Party, I'm not sure what in the hell they are thinking. They are risking letting PARTY loyalty get to the spot that it looks like stupidity. Brad

 

I agree with your analogy Brad! Blindly following any person or organization that can do no wrong or make any mistakes is pure foolhardy ignorance! My dad always said, " beware of a man that makes no mistakes, if he doesn't, he sure isn't doing much"! So true!

HAP

 

The 10 year leases are up this year at Sparta, the ATA announced a price increase (50%) for those campers who wanted to retain the spots they had for the last 10 year lease deal ... I was told they also increased the vendors leases, though was not told by how much but any increase when the place is under attack by the Politicians and is considering being closed is totally rediculous and can only do more harm than good ... If the Vendors stop attending or get depleated , the shooters will be soon to follow ... The big problem is once the facility is even considered for closure or cut back to limited use, it will be a target for years to come and sooner or later it will be eliminated for any reason and just cause ... The ATA got desparate and jumped at what was on the table and could be ready in time so they would not have to not have a grand that year ... The lease was extended because things were going so well and the ATA was making money as the States loss continued to grow ... Sooner or later, someone had to wake up and smell the coffee being as it was right there in black and white for all to see ... Location, location, location what more needs to be said ..? The finest facility in the wrong location and it may just as well not even be there ... The attendance numbers do not lie ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Just put you on my ignore list

 

Gee @Family Guy
I must have misinterpreted your OP. I thought this whole thread is about how the Beer Tent doesn't have a crowd at Sparta but the "Holy Land" had a line for a long as you can see for the eternal beer tap of trapshooting euphoria. So you say that this is actually about marketing the game to the public? Wow, I figured from your arguments, we are just trying to get the crowd back up at the beer tent like the good old days of yesteryear (Now a decade since anyone has been shooting there, but all of you can't seem to get over the past and that it ain't coming back). But as with everything, it must be Neil's fault since he hasn't been president in years, (or whoever else's fault it should be to help you try to sell your propaganda to whoever will bite).

Also, you keep bringing up the 22 shooter thing. Who cares if that is all the shooters who have 1000 targets. You can go to any shoot and shoot penalty, you only need target requirements if you want to shoot your actual class or you want a reduction. If anyone gets yardage and can't shoot there, that gives them incentive to shoot more (1000 target review) to move back forward. Plus, a lot of the small clubs in my area and I would assume a majority across the country have a hard time getting even 15 shooters let alone 25 for a shoot with nothing on the line but targets.

The real shooters who want to shoot the ONE AND ONLY "GRAND" will go the distance wherever in the world it is. The people that are still pissy that it left their back yard, won't drive outside of a 300 mile range or those that plain won't go because it isn't in Ohio will go to Cardinal and still complain about whatever they want. I live 2 1/2 hours from Cardinal and 10 from Sparta. Given a chance, I will go to Sparta every time because people like you and all the CC Kool-Aid (actual spelling since no one can seem to spell it correctly) drinkers ruined that club for me. It is an impressive facility that we are LUCKY to have, but at the end of the day, Mr Fishburn is a business man, and if he decided to close the facility for whatever reason, we would be without a place to host one of the largest shoots, have a hall of fame on property we don't own and not have a back up plan because the place can't ever close.

Gee this sounds like a kinda familiar story doesn't it?

But I suppose that could never happen since we are in the "trapshooting belt" where we will be able to shoot forever without issue and watch the Unicorns go back and forth while we reminisce of year's past.

Please don't pile all PA and OH shooters into your bus on issues. I am one Ohioan that can say I don't agree with most of what you say and you truly make Ohio and PA shooters look bad and I don't need or want you as an ambassador. Maybe CC is looking for a photographer or cheerleader, you should look into it because that along with bashing anything you don't agree with is all you bring to this site or maybe it's your site? I get confused with all the sign on names.

 

Finally!!!

N1H1

 

Hi Brad,

As I remember, there was a time when you were shoot management at the Cardinal Center when Mr. Stuart did the computer work. I was there and had to shoot the hated banks; that's all that was offered me. You were, as I remember, shoot management at that very shoot when I was there, 2008.

I did not complain as shooters there now do, but I wonder...since you surely knew what Bob was doing, did you think that was OK? Did you tell him to do that? Did you tell him not too do it? If you were in charge today what would you tell him to do and why and if it is different from what you did in 2008, why is it different?

N1H1

 

No one?

I ALWAYS spell it correctly.

Flyersarebest

 

Chilon....you said you were from Boardman but we found out that was a fib as you could not produce that paper that said you were a grad there.

Other silly things so far...

How many was that last year? How is that program working?

Certainly you know it was in a trust long ago. You didn't get the memo?

You are right. I do not drive 300 miles to shoot. I do not have to do that.

Now show us that diploma you said you have......

 

Great post Jim. The IDNR and Illinois taxpayers care now. Fewer ATA members care. I do not care as much. Sadly your post is right.

 

You can pm it to me. Waiting to see it.

 

Sure, keep hoping for that Chilon. You sound very hateful. Waiting for that paper....or excuse.

PM it to either person. That straightshooter guy could help.

 

Gee
I guess we don't get to see it. lololol

Here is to remembering the great bud tent.

Thanks for dropping by. Tell the other 3 stooges from the Sparta only channel we said hi.

 

And the REAL SHOOTERS who want to shoot the TOP EVENTS will go wherever those are.

 

Chilon.....waiting for that paper.

Is straightshooter available?

 

I for one do not doubt "Chilon's" (or whatever this gentleman calls himself) accreditation. "Chilon" has made a valid point regarding the cardinal center, why can't you elaborate? Why must the cardinal center and its destiny/demise be a closely guarded secret(s)? If Mr. Fishburn wants to shut it down, guess what he WILL/CAN shut the establishment down. Alike the great State of Illinois, a business.

 

@Flyersarebest
I am sorry that I threw you in with a lot of the other Whiz Bangs on this site that don't check their facts(in this case spelling) before posting their responses. Again my sincerest apologies in this regard.

 

And press releases.

And layoffs.

And the Governor's statement.

And televised news stories.

And hundreds of print stories.

And the Governor not visiting the Grand.

Yep, all just Just Internet speculation.

 

Cleo...it appears you are the same person as straight shooter Chilon. Maybe you can help you print that paper. lolol

 

Apology accepted.

In my opinyun their rite, they just don't youse spellchex enuff.

Flyersarebest

 

The Illinois State Lottery is not making payouts over $25,000 after 07-01-15 until there is a budget in place, I seriously doubt thats legal but who would know better then those people ... There is another group of people who are not going to be happy due to the budget hearings ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

This sat all weekend and not one response other than asking to see my high school diploma again. I have a serious question about where we would be if the facility closed, but no one wants to answer, or is it because we actually don't have a place to go if something did happen?

 

I have another thread open in which a serious site analysis is being conducted. Did you search before posting here?

Here ya' go: http://americantrapshooter.com/index.php?threads/lets-fix-the-2016-grand.1402/

 

That is not what I asked. You are asking about where to host the Grand. I asked if something happened to Cardinal, where would the OSTA be? Where would we host the OHIO State Shoot? I asked nothing of the Grand.

 

What? Why are you possibly asking about Cardinal? Is the State of Ohio planning to close the Cardinal Center? I don't think the State of Ohio even owns the Cardinal Center. Who told you the Cardinal Center was closing?

You should move on. I don't think that question is something you need to trouble yourself with.

 

Cardinal is a Private company, if Mr Fishburn decided to close (because he can) we would be SOL. That is my question. In today's world, anything could happen and quickly, just asking a question, not accusing or starting a rumor, just asking a question as a What if?

 

I don't think anyone's terribly worried about that question, so don't expect a rush of answers.

 

The only time that there seemed to be much activity around the Beer tent was when there was free food. I believe the beer tent would have much more attendance if they served reasonably priced draft beer rather than the more expensive big aluminum bottles. The draft beer at Vandalia in my opinion made the beer stand a very popular place weather you were a beer drinker or if you were there just to hear the stories and to see if you could pickup a new excuse to use down the road.

Dave Berlet