Will Daily Fees Increase?

As I understand it target prices are going up $3.00 per hundred for the Ohio State Shoot and have been hearing that daily fees are also going to take a jump. Just wondering if anyone has any hard fact on this. Maybe Merlo could give us some insight on this?
Shell price up if you can find any. Components all higher if you can find them. price of targets going up along with everything else you need to live meaning we all have less disposable money for shooting.
Along with all the other price increases my fear is that if the ATA and the OSTA increase the daily fees it just might be the straw that breaks the camel's back?
Just wondering what some of you folks on this sight are thinking?

Dave Berlet

 

I think your concern is real. I love to shoot, but the costs are getting crazy. Even though I can afford the increase, I just cannot justify how expensive our hobby is becoming. I have cut my practice shooting in half, and will do the same for competition. I used to shoot every day at every Cardinal shoot, but will not this year. I'm going to shoot one day during the week, and then the weekend program. Wish things were different...

Paul

 

As a Michigan director, I have not been a party to any discussion on state or ATA fees increasing. There is difficulty on trying to decide the target fees, keeping it as low as possible AND being able to cover expenses on maintaining our home-grounds. Anticipating target costs and payroll, the 2 largest expenses, are tricky.

There is an flurry of discussion over the shooter fee that the 3s (or whatever its called now) company wants to charge to use their software- $3/shooter/day. Its too much to absorb. I don't feel that is going to fly.

 

It would be nice if someone from the ATA and OSTA would post some info on here. I know the shooters always thanked me when I was on the board for letting them know what was going on. Shooters will find out eventually so get ahead of the news. More read this than the OSTA web page.

 

Per OSTA's website for October's minutes concerning ATA daily fees...
"The Annual Meeting was done by Zoom. There was an effort to raise the A.T.A. fees from $3.00 to $4.00 since the fees have not been increased for such a long time period. However, the action failed due to bad timing with the decrease in shooting and high cost of ammunition and reloading supplies. "

No mention of OSTA's daily fees...

 

Thanks for posting info.

 

Before anyone says, what do you care you don't shoot registered targets anymore, you're right, I don't, but this line JUMPED off the page.

There was an effort to raise the A.T.A. fees from $3.00 to $4.00 since the fees have not been increased for such a long time period.

So, even if there was no reason to raise fees some thought that since they haven't been raised for a "long time" they should just do it to get more revenue.

Nice!

However, the action failed due to bad timing with the decrease in shooting and high cost of ammunition and reloading supplies. "

How about ,

The action failed due to the protest from the delegates stating that without a very good reason for sticking the shooters with another $1.00 increase they would not agree with said increase

 

Folks, there is considerable discussion on the topic of the vote on ATA fee increases in the prior thread covering the Annual Meeting. My reason for voting against the North Carolina Delegate’s motion to increase the fee had little to do with timing. I felt and continue to believe that since the ATA made about $5,000,000 on their investments last year, it is not reasonable to ask the members to pay more. State fees are up to each State, but most minimum wages have increased and I believe that White Flyer target costs have increased.
JB Lewis

 

Well thank you Delegate Lewis. It's nice to see a Board of Director informing member of a discussion and provide the reasons for support or opposition.

It appears that you are also paying attention to the ATA financials. While I don't have the latest report, I have watched the annual net profits as well as profit from camping and the GAH. I am in agreement with you opinion that there is no need for the ATA to increase fees.

I would appreciate in learning what the ATA intends to do with all their assets? I haven't found one Delegate who could answer the question, nor have enough interest to find the answer.

I for one appreciate your comments JB Lewis.

HB

 

Flyersarebest,

With all due respect sir, your statement allows readers to easily assume that our Delegates stood together on this issue.

Please permit me to add a bit of context to your statement.

I was informed that the vote was 25 - 19 with 5 abstentions. Five Board of Directors could not make a decision. And 9 didn't have the time to sit in on the annual meeting held by Zoom.

It is my understanding that the reason for the proposed increase was provided by the North Carolina Delegate.

The reason:

1. We haven't raised fees since 2010

2. The ATA needed it to help pay for inflation and increased salaries for permanent staff.

Now, did the Delegate from North Carolina think of this all by his lonesome? Or was he goaded into making the motion by one of our ATA officials?

 

I was under the impression there was no roll call vote on anything. The voting kept secret. We can’t be sure who voted for anything since it would have added 30 minutes. The delegates just didn’t have the time.

I appreciate a Delegate coming on the site. But….we can’t be sure of anything if the voting was kept secret. You can be sure there won’t be roll call voting this year as well.

 

I thank the people that have answered but still haven't heard anything from any Ohio official. Past officials yes, Michigan officials yes, Ohio officials NO. Does anyone have the up to date scoop?

 

I attended several ATA annual meetings many years ago. Voting was usually conducted by voice. "In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it and the motion is approved."

If it's a close voice (noise) vote, someone usually asks for a count of raised hands. And, once in a while the subject is deemed important enough for a roll call vote either called for by an E.C. member or by any Board of Director. The roll call vote was used on the motion to move to Sparta. It has also been used in disciplinary actions and member reinstatements.

I don't mind a voice vote as long as it is unanimous. When there are Board members on each side of a proper motion, a roll call should be required. Afterall, our ATA is a transparent association who highly regards each and every member, right? Now, who's going to tell me a roll call vote takes up too much time?

 

Why would we vote on Delegates if they are not to be held accountable? Certainly raising the fees is important enough for a roll call vote. Collecting millions in fees isn’t important?

Not one Delegate thought their job was important enough this year to record their votes this year. Or last year, or the year before, or the year before that, or……

The votes will remain secret until at least one man of honor is a Delegate. jmho

 

I'm glad to see the daily fees remaining stable this year, one less increase in cost. I'm also glad to see delegates bringing forth a bit of information and updates. Certainly appreciated.

The clubs are going to be in a tough spot with their target prices this year. It is nearly certain that attendance will be down on the non championship days of the larger shoots. The club's cost won't go down much those days though. They're going to have to raise prices to make ends meet but raising prices means they may get less shooters overall as shooters are watching their budgets. Really a no-win situation.

 

Get used to the law of diminishing returns. It started with raising prices for options because fewer people were playing then it extended to raising fees and target prices because shooter numbers are plummeting. The good times are over and have been for a while..

 

Just remember 20% of the fees collected goes back to the state Orgs. 2022 DUES & FEES REBATES BASED ON 2021 TARGET YEAR. What is the big deal it cost $100. to shoot 100 targets, One dollar increase ?????.

 

You're talking to a group that threatens to quit when they raise the price of wads .25/bag.

 

Jeff maybe it's no big deal or maybe it's a very big deal? Maybe available money is no big deal to you, but it is to many participants of our shooting sports. Close to a couple of dollars for each gallon of gas. Maybe 20% more each trip to the grocery. Nearly double the price of ammo if you can even find any. Basically everything is considerable higher even up to double what you paid about a year ago and a lot of folks FUN money is getting pretty thin. I don't know where exactly the tipping point is for anyone else, not even sure where it is for me, but at some point the recreation dollars are going to be used by a lot of our shooters for things that are a absolute necessity. Maybe ammo price- maybe target price- maybe daily fees- maybe fuel to get to the range, or a combo of these or other higher prices of most all things it could be that the higher daily fees could just be the point of no return. Just my opinion.

Dave Berlet

 

I think the number of shooters that have a tipping point decidedly outnumbers those that don’t..

Jon Reitz

 

If it wasn't for my wife and son the ATA would be totally passe. Just think, all of our fine guns we currently own will be valuable as tomato stakes.