Sandra Jo Jack is in the Executive Meeting Minutes - Curious who has more information?

The following complaint is in the Executive Meeting Minutes. I am asking for more information on this.

I report. You decide.
merlo out

#21-07Against Sandra Jo Jack(#8502397) as filed by Jason Berry (#9002965).Berry alleges
that the incident took place during ATA registered competition on June 18, 2021,at the Eau
Claire Rod and Gun Club, Eau Claire, Wisconsin. The complaint is the result of alleged
unsportsmanlike conduct by Jack directed toward club officials and staff. Purportedly, Jack was
asked to recognize club policy and refused to do so in a verbally abusive manner toward
officials and staff. The complaint was sent to the Delegate via certified mail and email on July
15. On July 19, the Delegate recused himself due to his acquaintance with the accused. The
complaint was sent to the Alternate via certified mail and email on July 20. Results are pending

 

Merlo, Try to find out what the club policy was. Roger C.

 

Karma?

 

A little further down in the same set of minutes I see Dr. Longshot filed a complaint against the same shooter. Maybe Gary will see this and fill us in on what his complaint was regarding.


7. A complaint against Sandra Jo Jack by Gary Bryant (#4010126) was received by the ATA office. Executive Director Gipson dismissed the complaint because it failed to meet the requirements of Section XII., C., 5., a. (4) and Section XII., B., 1., f. of the Official ATA rules. A letter was sent to Mr. Bryant advising him of the dismissal on June 15, 2021.

 

Gary was in Wisconsin?

 

Where did you find the Minutes?

 

ATA web site

 

Nope...the Gary complaint is different.

Those are two different complaints.

 

Roger....
I think the point of the post is that merlo wants more information.

Is this resolved?

 

I don’t see on the ATA web site

 

Maybe Merlo can get Joe to ask the Ohio Delegate, they are on a first name (need to Know) basis.

 

type in ATA minutes amateur trapshooting assoc. go to aug 2021 executive committee meeting it is there

 

What page is it on about the problem with Sandra? Roger C.

 

page 5 and 6

 

The complaint(s) brought against Sandra Jo Jack to the ATA Executive Committee this past summer was dismissed as frivolous and unsubstantiated. I would suggest that instead of rehashing these types of detrimental posts, we work together as a shooting community for the betterment of our sport.
If every shooter did a fraction of the volunteering that Ms. Jack does at every shoot she attends, Trapshooting would be a lot better off.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

 

I can decipher the above post I think.

In other words there is nothing to see here. Reading the minutes of the ATA is bad for the sport. Volunteering means you do not have to give a care about the rules of the club.

I would ask why the officials of of a gun club in Wisconsin would press a complaint against her. And we would ask why if the complaint was unsubstantiated.

I want to know more. Bob doesn’t have to read. The ATA wanted us to know.

 

Could be that the WI Gun Club was in the wrong. This is another reason the ATA should publish the minutes sooner. Instead they leave this hanging.

 

Thank You found it!!!!!

 

Butterly, The club should have posted what the complaint was. They lodged a complaint against the lady if it was a serious complaint that is one thing, my guess it was bull shit complaint. Problem settled. Knowing where the complaint came from. maybe she was wearing a MAGA hat.
Roger C.

 

Roger....
Why would you guess there was a conspiracy against her? What information do you have?

It is somewhat curious those words were used don't you think?
Towards "officials and staff"? It must be a huge conspiracy if officials and staff heard it dont you think?

 

Sandra doesnt do anything halfway, looks like she got all of them.

 

the complaint was filed due to how she handled herself when confronted with the rule the club was trying to make her follow. The rule the trap girl asked her to follow was to catch or pick up her hulls after she shot. The management of the club had enough of her similar antics over several years and a complaint was filed.

 

She sure seams to show up in the official complaint ATA minutes a lot. Complaining or be complained about, I wonder why so much from one person?

 

How many other shooters got spanked for the same thing?

 

I would like to see the club rules.
Are they,

Please do not leave hulls on the ground?
(you can let them fly but you pick them up after the round is completed)

Please pick up hulls after each station?
(Nope, that would screw with the “harmony” of the squad)

Please capture your hulls so they don’t hit the ground?
(this one would be stupid. You couldn’t shoot doubles with a semi or pump)

I know I have seen signs that read,
All hulls left on the ground after the squad has completed the round are the property of the club. Please pick up your hulls before leaving the field

(Kind of a blanket rule. The club didn’t want the pullers/scorers to have to pick up old junk reload empties but if someone was kicking out new shells the club could pick them and sell them, so it was to cover all of them)

What was the rule? And, how many times, over X number of shoots, was she asked then TOLD that she was violating it?

What was the age of the "trap girl"? Probably a young girl that was just trying to make a few extra bucks by working the shoot?

And, Squad out!

Mam, before you leave the field you have to pick up those empties you kicked out.

Yes Mam, that is the club’s rule.

No Mam, I don’t know who made it.

No Mam, I don’t know if that is an ata rule. I know it’s the club rule here.

Mam, please pick up your empties before you walk off the field.

Mam?

Yes Mam, I heard exactly what you said.

No Mam, I don’t know who you are. What I do know is that you have to pick up those empties.

Mam, I’m going to have to call an official to talk to you.

No Mam, I don’t know who Dave Shaeffer is.

Now if it was me,

Mam, you can't leave those empties on the ground.

Yes Mam, that IS a club rule.

No Mam, I don't know if it is an ata rule and I really don't care if it is or not. The club owns this piece of real estate, and their rules are, you either catch those empties, or pick them up off THEIR property BEFORE you walk off to the next trap. Or, if this is your last trap BEFORE you head off to your car.

No, Mam, I don't know who you are and just like not caring if it is an ata rule I don't really care who you are.

That's nice, congratulations. I'm sure people all over know who you are.

I've already called the officials; you can discuss it with them.

Say that again, I don't think I heard you correctly.

Well, aren't you something special?

Yes Mam, I know who Dave Schaeffer is. But I'm NOT Dave Schaeffer.

Pick up those empties.

 

Has the Wisconsin complaint been dismissed?

Most members of the ATA don’t know where to find the minutes.

 

the complaint was filed within ATA rules. Where should the club have posted this complaint?

it's a matter of interpretation.

these are your words Bob, not the ATA's. The WI incident was investigated and closed without disciplinary action.

 

Roger you have a pm

Dave Berlet

 

I don’t have a problem with merlo bringing this to our attention. I have a problem with the ATA being so lazy as to not post the minutes sooner.

I guess we take Iowa Guy at his word. Because the ATA refuses to post this sooner.

 

Just as I thought, A rule that if followed during a registered shoot, is just plain dumb.
Roger C.
PS -Was she ask before or after she shot?

 

What does Dave think (not Berlet)?

 

Darn, I should have added that to my post.

 

I'll betcha Dave's smilin'.

 

Roger, the basis of the complaint wasn't that she didn't follow the club rule. It was the way she handled herself after she was asked to follow the rule. As far as before or after, there were signs posted on the scorer's chairs and the trap girl asked the entire squad after they shot. All complied except .....

 

Roger, what do you know about the club and/or Mr Berry? I suppose they screwed you out of a deal when they bought their PAT Traps too.

 

Iowa guy, Stick it where the sun don't shine. I have been out of the trap business for over 20 years. Where they spend their money is of no concern of mine.
Roger C.

 

Was that pre or post 3-hole?

 

PRE presumably, most likely POST. Roger C.

 

would have been mid 90’s.

still haven’t said what your issue is with the club.

 

I have no issue with the club. I do have an issue with people making dumb rules that make their customers do their chores for them. Roger C.

 

Am I to understand that if an elderly old person shooting an auto loader for doubles has to pick up emptys before going the next field? I hope the next squad isn't in a big hurry because it might take some time to locate, bend over, hold onto the gun, grab a couple of shells, get back to a standing position, stuff them into a pocket, amble to the next shells and repeat. Might take awhile. Stupid rule.

 

Not mentioning doing that while sitting in a scooter, wheel chair.

 

A battery operated vacuum attached to the back of that super chair you have shouldn't be a problem for someone with your skill in fabricating.

That way IF you shot a bad score,

Hey Rook, how'd you shoot?

It sucked

 

Another way to go would be to install body lift kit. Then mount my old L88 427 bored out .60/1000, Crower fuel injected engine complete with the late Herb Gebler exhaust headers. Then when done shooting, fire that bad boy up. That exhaust would not only clean off my trap but the adjacent fields also
Might be a little disruptive to the squad though?

What do you think Sandra?

 

You guys better be careful or some of the new posters will get their undies all in a wad and be all upset about staying on the straight and narrow as they see it. LOL

Dave Berlet

 

Correct Bob….The charge was received, investigated according to ATA rules, forwarded to the EC and found to be without merit and dismissed as such.

 

The club evidently had a policy posted that spent hulls should be picked up due to COVID protocol and not endangering other shooters or trap help which might pick up the hulls. According to other shooters there were hulls on the ground when Ms Jacks squad arrived. After completion of the event, ONLY Ms Jack was asked to pick up her hulls, no one else in the squad was asked and with hulls on the ground when they arrived obviously prior squads had not picked up their hulls. With hulls already on the ground how would shooters be able to accurately identify which were theirs and would that not subject him/her to possible COVID contamination if that is the real concern? Squad mate submitted a corroborating statement to this effect in rebuttal of the complaint. Further, the puller was not wearing a mask so the question begs: Is COVID really the concern? Further the scorekeeper passed along her pen/pencil for the squad leader to sign the score sheet. COVID protocol? It has been argued that the complaint was not so much about the failure to obey policy but the actions that followed. Ms Jack felt that she had been singled out for harassment, as had been done to her at past shoots and asked for an explanation of all the above facts. In other words: “Why me and no one else?” End issue is that the club has the right to establish and enforce policies they deem fit for the safety of all shooters and staff. Everyone is obligated to obey established policies. The club should enforce said policies EQUALLY and fairly to all shooters. Finally, if the aftermath is the real issue and with so many alleged witnesses, why was the offender NOT asked to leave the club? The club certainly has policies and rules that allow such disqualification and yet nothing was done. AND, after investigation and referral to the EC, the complaint was dismissed.

 

Sounds like discrimination to me.Why was she singled out to pick up the shell that were there from previous squads.I would have had a problem with Jason Berry and told him to GO Flock HIMSELF..I have seen Sandra at a few Wisconsin shoots and she was always busy helping out with the trophy and scores.
Looks like some people st U Clair need a attitude adjustment.

 

If what Bobby says is correct, and she was the only one told to pick up her empties. It was a bull shit attempt tp harass the lady. Roger C.
P.S. iowa guy, I was correct in my assumption of the people running the club. Are you one of a$$ holes?

 

Well that’s one way of saying Happy New Year

 

None…..

 

Roger, I agree somewhat. Where I differ slightly is that if the club is going to have such rules they should be applied EQUALLY and not selectively as was done in this case.

 

Can anyone on here say they witnessed this when it happened?

 

Bobby, the scorekeepers statement was that she asked the entire squad to pick up their hulls, not just Sandy. It's entirely possible she asked every squad and they simply ignored her and walked off the line. Sandy, however "went off" on the score keeper. And then when the score keeper walked away to remove herself from the situation, followed her into the club house to continue to harass the scorekeeper. This was the basis of the complaint, not that she didn't follow the rule. I don't disagree with the comments about the rule. If Sandy had an issue she should have taken it up with management rather than berate a teenage girl.

Sandy is a regular at this club and has been for years. I've known Sandy for probably 25 years and generally like her. Yes, she has helped at the WI state shoot and I think was their ATA delegate for a couple of years. I've also seen her help a little at other shoots. No doubt she can be a very nice person.

 

Roger, Happy new years to you too and, no I'm not part of this club any longer. However, I was on the board and Pres of it for while when I lived up there.

 

“Followed her into the clubhouse to continue to harass the scorekeeper “

Kind of sounds similar to that time a shooter followed Dave Schaefer into the parking lot to continue to harass him.

I’ll bet that young scorekeeper didn’t think the complaint was frivolous or “without merit”

I wonder if the ata can force a club to suspend a worker for a year.

 

And you clearly define a problem with nearly every complaint that is filed. One person says this and another says that. Witness accounts can and do vary. A member of that same squad wrote a letter to the Delegate/EC stating that only Sandy was asked. And if you are correct that the scorekeeper “might” have asked every other squad to pick up their hulls and they didn’t leaving hulls on the field, the scorekeeper and the club immediately faces another issue. IF as they state in the policy that used hulls present a probable COVID exposure, asking following squads to sort through those left behind clearly does not support their policy. I believe based on independent testimony, as do others that she was being singled out. Everyone has their own opinion, but the final statement was the EC who considered the complaint unfounded and dismissed it. I have read the official complaint in its entirety and found it way way over the top with content that had ZERO to do with the issue at hand. The author clearly had an axe to grind. Never the less, club policies/rules are just that and intended for the safety and protection of participants and staff, and are completely justified, IF ENFORCED EQUALLY. I respectfully disagree with you sir that it happened in this instance.

 

Iowa guy, Were you present when this problem happened? Or are you repeating hearsay? Roger C.

 

Hanky lanky!!!

 

Great lady, Great club.

JACK

 

Sandra Joe Jack was threatening with a lawsuit because I supported Schaeffer, I told her flat out I support whomever I want to support, it's non of her business, that what she did was wrong.

GB........................................DLS