HAD MY HEAD IN THE SAND

I've had a premium campsite at Sparta since day one and over the years I've really never stopped to look at or question anything about Sparta. Now with the latest situation and all comments flying back and forth I reached the conclusion that I just haven't been paying much attention to how bad a position the Sparta WSC is in. In ten years there have not been any improvements that I'm aware of, hotels, motels, restaurants, and etc. The site has lost money every year and the losses appear to be getting bigger each year as the number of shooters goes down. The facility is very nice but its in the middle of nowhere and will always be in the middle of nowhere, which makes it difficult if your not a camper, so I really don't think any new plan can change the inevitable. In the last couple weeks I've gone from cautiously optimistic the problem would solved to now thinking the hurdle is just to big to overcome. I know many will disagree but once the WSC was used by the governor as a bargaining chip he opened it up for all to see and comment on. He has probably hastened the demise of Sparta and brought so much negative attention it can't survive as the politicians who will demand Illinois stop funding it.

 

He sure didn't do us any favors. This may not be the last time we are subject to all this sabre rattling. But I honestly don't see them closing the facility.

 

Holiday Inn did come into town and build a new facility, the sales receipts at the local WalMart are soaring(thank you all for your support), but you are right in what you say about now the public has seen something that was pretty much under the radar ... The republican as well as democratic voters are not pleased with the amount of tax dollars being squandered on the WSRC with no end in sight and not one dime in profit made in 10 years ... I have friends from Chgo asking me about it, they never heard about it before all this came about ... What might of started out as Political Posturing, might just of been the opening of a can of worms for the voters of Illinois to feast on ... The Politicians can get by with ignoring the voters to a point but sooner or later if there is enough of them (voters) they will be listened to and the Elected Officials will have to do what ever the voters decide ... Once noticed it will probably not be ignored again for quite awhile ...
I would guess that I have had at least a dozen phone calls in the last week asking questions about this facility and since when, how did they, when did they, what the hell is going on ..? The Politicains of Illinois have always been rather deceptive, now the preverbial cats out of the bag ... I hope for the sake of the ATA the state decides to keep it and opertate and maintain it so they can eat the loss and take the hit ... Rumor has it that they are going to try as in attempt to get the ATA and other shooting organizations to pay to off set the losses, but over $22,000,000 has been lost in the 10 years of operation already and they will never be made up ... The state claims $1,889.000 and change a year to operate and maintain the place, who knows what it really costs ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Wishbone, I hope you're right and I'm sure many agree with you but this brings me back to the Vandalia situation where the argument went back and forth and then boom it was gone. I also look at my situation and wonder how many are like me. I'm old, shot Vandalia for many years then bought a ten year lease at Sparta, now in its last year and I'm not renewing. Not because I hate Sparta, I actually like it but I don't want to make the trip any more. I'll be in the hotel crowd soon which means I'll still shoot a lot but it will be Satellite Grands and State shoots where I can stay close to the grounds. Unfortunately, I'm sure I'm not the only one at the end of a ten year lease who us not renewing as those around me are not renewing either.

 

The Holiday Inn was built on the premise of getting a lot of business from the workers on the large power plant which was set for construction and the opening of the WSC. They got the business from the power plant construction but the shooting complex business has been hit and miss. They are filled for the Grand and have other decent weeks from other shooting events but the last time we were talking with one of the managers(?) and two friends that have rooms there about the Grand attendance we were told that while profitable they have never come close to their business plan.

 

Probably why you don't see big Corporations lined up to build in Sparta, maybe Trump can can build a new Trump Towers there, only be 2 story's high ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Most people only need to see something from a consumer's perspective, because that is what they are. But, if you look at Sparta/WSC from a business perspective ... it is/was/will be ... a deep dark hole to throw money in. The 'numbers' are/were/never will be there.

Very few people 'invest' their own money .... they ask others to do so .... and then expect a 'return' that is greater than the investment .... with no clue how/when/why it happens.

The State of Illinois didn't 'just pay cash' for that place .... they sold bonds and took money out of their budget each year. The bonds pay 'interest' to the holders ... so they are now in a position to lose the money from the gap of revenue collected to the current operational expense, and money needed to pay the bond debt, at interest.

There is no way to save a ship that far underwater ... each day you fail to 'break-even' adds to the total needed for the next day, it doesn't just restart at zero each day. The current 'break-even' point for the the WSC would be past loss plus current expense ..... well into the tens-of-millions ..... just to clear the slate so the next year your beak even point would be current expense. It is not that hard .... you 'start' with X-million, deduct 'loss', you now need to recover the 'total loss' to 'break-even'.

 

One more thing I hadn't even thought of. You think of the loss each that needs to stop but not the loss in total.

 

The Govenor of Illinois has already put the WRSC into a death spiral that will be hard to stop. By putting it on the Budget Radar. Not only will future and current campers think twice about securing a lease, but the vendors are now second guessing any commitments.
It will be interesting to see what condition the grounds are in for the Grand, and how attendance shakes out. I know of a number of campers that aren't leasing this year, and some on contract that are not renewing when their lease is up. Too risky

 

Why is all of this a suprise? Wsc is a public works, and since when has ANY government entity made money? The public doesn't care until it directly affects them. The ATA is basically a public works. Look at how it is run. As a government entity. Until it directly affects the public (the shooters), they don't care what goes on or how things are handled. That is why we are where we are. Some of the shooters saw this coming from day one and said so, Brad was one of them. They were scorned and put upon by people who make it their buisness to poke and prod. They blamed evryone for a demise that was going to happen and when it was pointed out that some people in the ATA were being paid big money to get it to Ill., they were shut down. I have personal friends that were involved at that time and the things that the ATA people pulled were incredable. To ad insult to injury and to prove "they", the ATA, were right they moved the HOF there when they have an offer to give them land and start up money to not have it in Ill. Just another example of government entity leadership. Again I say, we have now exactly what we deserve because we let it happen. I wonder if we will learn anything from it? Just like DC, we have to get them all out of there. Wipe clean and flush the toilet. Get some people in there that wants more than what they can get for themselves and hang their name on a successful organization.

 

The 99 year Lease to the ATA for the flat land near London Ohio by Mr. Lex Wexner, and passed by the ATA and Past President, who did not get out of his car to look at several other Ohio Sites.

Looks Great, and What It Could Have Been. That was an ignorant ATA blowing smoke at Mr. Wexner, Never to be offered again.

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

 

Rob those in power at the ATA will not let go until all the money is gone and then they will just quit shooting. This group of EC's and HOF board are a disgrace. You've heard it from me before, unless and until a new organization is formed in the big registered states, Ohio, Michigan, PA for example trap shooting will continue to slide. As long as these states daily fees prop up the ATA's finances they have no need to change. The rule book needs simplified, the handicap system fixed, and other issues cleaned up. What would make anyone think this bunch, under this system, will do that.

I talked with Bill Hunter the other day and he told me that the California State shoot had less than 400 shooters. They used to be as big as Ohio and PA. Look at all the States around, Mich, Indiana, others, they are all smaller today than when the ATA moved to Sparta. Someone or something you love dying is hard to watch. Harder still when it's been killed by neglect and incompetence.

When you have people like N1H1 who blame Ohio shooters you get a look see into these peoples twisted minds. They screwed it up, not me for pointing it out, not the Ohio and Eastern shooters who told them we ain't going and didn't. Them, this is THEIR baby and I hope they enjoyed it.

Brad Dysinger

 

The ATA has served a fresh batch of Kool Aid .....

The "Governor of Illinois" could only be guilty of "political posturing" .... IF Sparta/WRSC was at least revenue neutral and they wanted to close it ... it is not. How would you like to see that balance sheet ... and then face the people who elected you ??????

Something like "oath of office" may mean nothing to the ATA .... but do not deflect blame to those who may feel it has meaning.

 

Once again we're assured everything is OK. Trapwife (Karla) posted that everything will be fine as secret negoiations have been in the works for some time and she's not worried about the future of the WSC. So we continue to have those who feel the ATA is on the right path and things will fine, those who feel the ATA continues to flounder and make bad decisions and we also have the small contingent who are in the know but never seem to be able to provide facts that might sway someone to accept their position. "Trust Me I Know What's Going On, Just Can't Tell You This At This Point" has never seemed to calm or assure anyone where the ATA is involved. It's more like I believe it when I see it.

 

Seitz9010
Good post.
Like you, I am not in the know. Most of the membership is not. We have elected officials to act on our behalf.
The problem we have are so many here believe the EC and BOD are crooks and thieves.

Some members would like to be kept in the loop and consulted on every decision, that won't happen.

Do I think the EC is working behind the scenes on a number of contingencies yes.
Do I think they are doing their best for the sport HECK YES. (Few on this board believe that)

No one knows what the final outcome will be.

I have enjoyed my time in Illinois and hope it continues.
When it comes to an end I will thank the people and Gov of Illinois for the use of a world class facility.
It has been Grand.

 

Transparency, Integrity, Honor, this is a "members" organization not the EC or BOD's ( for the most part) personal Good Ol' Boys Club ... Its supported by the members and clubs all across America, Canada, as well as other country's ... If only certain members are going to be in the LOOP then all of the members should be advised whats going on (not the chosen few) ... Secret's breed comtempt, doubt, and suspicion if you need proof check back over the past 15 years ... If you have nothing to hide, hide nothing ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Thank You wpt ... "Secret's breed contempt, doubt, and suspicion if you need proof check back over the past 15 years ... If you have nothing to hide, hide nothing ... WPT ... (YAC)"

I was typing the same thoughts with different words, but I could not have said it any better.

 

Well, do you want to do it? I'm willing to lend a hand. I'm certain that within the group here we have more than enough talent to draft a rule book. The hardest part I see is to find member clubs. Gun folks are very conservative and don't like change. With member clubs, we can find a member willing to host the annual meet.

One point I would strongly lobby for is to return Continental/Wobble to the annual event. International, also, if possible.

How difficult would it be to add member clubs?

Do you want to start a new organization?

 

When was that supposedly posted, I do not recall ever posting that ... I think a few people from Ohio were talking about a new Organization at one time ... Me thinks I got hacked again ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I think if Sparta fails, it is time for a re-organization possibly merging with the PITA, making a nationwide organization.

They foresaw this years ago when they formed the PITA

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

 

Gary, What was PITA's response when you approached them with that idea?

 

Never thought I would see the day a shooting org would have less integrity than the politicians of Illinois. But here you have it!

 

A few years ago, I saw West Virginia had a PITA club.

 

He would still have the PITA there if did not have to tear out the trap to build his daughter a house.

GB DLS

 

Skeetercat, I dont think integrity is to be questioned . I know that many of us knew that the Sparta move was bad and questioned it. Just forward thinking individuals speaking our mind. Just for the record I dont agree with everything that comes out of Washington .

 

Just looking at some other websites and postings and it looks like the IDNR and others have done nothing to help the vendors at Sparta. It seems you will need a hunting license to buy shells at Walmart but the gun purchase restrictions seem to be getting worse. If you have a facility important to the shooters and the state why would you keep putting up roadblocks for the facility to overcome?

 

Excuse me, and no offense meant toward Karla and oleo, but why would some people be "in the know" instead of the total membership? That alone wreaks of favortism and the Good Ole Boys club tactics.
It's not what you know or do, but who you know?

I would think that one of the EC/BOD members could post a reassuring, yet neutral note on the ATA website explaining the ATA's dealings with the Governors Budget Committee and the proposed actions based on the Governor's decisions. The note or letter would not have to release any specific or negotiated details on agreements or promises. Just a "Hey, we got your back" note! Communication with the membership would be a nice touch for once.

And they wonder why so many members are critical and not trusting.